Jeff Dubay was back at it - loving up Mason

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Big Ten Mind

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This morning Dubay sounded like a petulant kid ripping Glen Mason's critics. Claiming if only Mason had a chance to coach in the new stadium he would have taken the program to new heights.

Problem is his natural recruiting footprint would not have changed, his somewhat lazy recruiting practices would not have changed, and his terrible public persona would not have changed.

His B10 winning % is worse than Tubby's - a guy Dubay called a "loser" because of his lack of conference success.

Mason - .400
Tubby - .426

Admittedly different sports and Tubby should have been much better, however he also had to deal with poor facilities (which is one of Dubay's excuses for Mase).

Mason was 2 wins 30 losses vs. teams that finished in the AP Top 25 over his 10 years at MN...by the most generous standards that is flat out awful

1-7 vs. tOSU
1-7 vs. MI
1-7 vs. Purdue
2-8 vs. WI
4-6 vs. Iowa
3-5 vs. PSU
Losing record (3-4) in 3rd tier bowls

Take away the non-conference wins and there isn't much there there

Case closed!
 

Did Dubay really call Tubby a loser?

If so, that's real funny coming from Dubay. He's in no position to call anyone a loser, especially a class act like Tubby.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Did Dubay really call Tubby a loser?

If so, that's real funny coming from Dubay. He's in no position to call anyone a loser, especially a class act like Tubby.
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4-6 weeks ago he said this (paraphrasing), "if you have a losing record in the B10 then you are a loser" If wasn't a personal attack but a analysis of his lack of conference success.
 

Recent Gophers football coaches and their Big 10 winning percentages:

20% Wacker
40% Mason
22% Brewster
25% Kill
 

Eagan said:
Recent Gophers football coaches and their Big 10 winning percentages:

20% Wacker
40% Mason
22% Brewster
25% Kill
Click to expand...
Compared to his predecessors at the U - good Compared to his peers in the B10 - not so much
 


I thought for sure he used to rip on Mase when he was on KFAN. Been awhile, but I seem to recall he mentioned being dissed by Mase a couple of times.
 

Kill conference 4 wins in 2 seasons, mason 3 wins

the first two season, Mason 3 wins, Kill 4 wins in conference. Lets hope Kill makes the jump to 5 wins in the 3rd season like Mason did.

Eagan said:
Recent Gophers football coaches and their Big 10 winning percentages:

20% Wacker
40% Mason
22% Brewster
25% Kill
Click to expand...
 

Eagan said:
Recent Gophers football coaches and their Big 10 winning percentages:

20% Wacker
40% Mason
22% Brewster
25% Kill
Click to expand...

Mason's after his first 2 seasons: - 19%


Again, none of this matters. You seem to adhere to the idea that if the next hire is lousy, that the other guy did a good job.

Mason's clock was definitely ticking. Regardless of what catastrophe happened post Mason, the guy did not have a good record. After 10 seasons, he was winning 40% of his games in the Big 10. I probably would have given him another season, but lets not confuse the question of "should Mason have been fired?" with "should Brewster have been hired?".
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Mason's after his first 2 seasons: - 19%


Again, none of this matters. You seem to adhere to the idea that if the next hire is lousy, that the other guy did a good job.

Mason's clock was definitely ticking. Regardless of what catastrophe happened post Mason, the guy did not have a good record. After 10 seasons, he was winning 40% of his games in the Big 10. I probably would have given him another season, but lets not confuse the question of "should Mason have been fired?" with "should Brewster have been hired?".
Click to expand...

Therein is the reason Maturi is heading for China.
 



Bob_Loblaw said:
Mason's after his first 2 seasons: - 19%


Again, none of this matters. You seem to adhere to the idea that if the next hire is lousy, that the other guy did a good job.

Mason's clock was definitely ticking. Regardless of what catastrophe happened post Mason, the guy did not have a good record. After 10 seasons, he was winning 40% of his games in the Big 10. I probably would have given him another season, but lets not confuse the question of "should Mason have been fired?" with "should Brewster have been hired?".
Click to expand...

I think this is the main point. It wasn't like he didn't hang around awhile. The decision to fire him may have been an ill-timed and a gut reaction, but it's not like he wasn't given a ton of rope over the years.

Again, Mason was a good coach and knows his football, but it was time for him to move on.
 

50PoundHead said:
I think this is the main point. It wasn't like he didn't hang around awhile. The decision to fire him may have been an ill-timed and a gut reaction, but it's not like he wasn't given a ton of rope over the years.

Again, Mason was a good coach and knows his football, but it was time for him to move on.
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First bold, I disagree.

Second bold, I agree.

Third bold, I agree.
 

After the "worst cfb firings" thread, I ain't got the strength.

Glen Mason had TEN FREAKING YEARS!!!!!!!
 

Testing, one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine and ten...there seems to be some problems with the site...testing one, two, three...

; 0 )
 



How could you even understand Dubay?
I tried listening for the first week or two, but he just talks too damn fast.
 

CP Gopher said:
How could you even understand Dubay?
I tried listening for the first week or two, but he just talks too damn fast.
Click to expand...

Don't leave out the stutters and stammers.

I can not believe this guy is on the air. Is there really a market for his crap?
 


Big Ten Mind said:
Problem is his natural recruiting footprint would not have changed, his somewhat lazy recruiting practices would not have changed, and his terrible public persona would not have changed.
Click to expand...
These were all issues, but what sealed it for me was how he "managed" leads in the 4th quarter. His playcalling and clock management were atrocious. After watching us blow so many games I do not think that this would have changed either.
 

Maximus said:
After the "worst cfb firings" thread, I ain't got the strength.

Glen Mason had TEN FREAKING YEARS!!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Me either, so I copied my post from that thread--for review--in reference to the 2007 Texas Tech game:

"[There's] the fabulous 4th quarters, including the Indiana melt-down, the Northwestern melt-down, the North Carolina State melt-down, the Purdue melt-down, the Ohio State meltdown, the near-Northwestern melt-down II, the Wisconsin melt-down I, the Michigan melt-down I, the Wisconsin melt-down II, the Michigan melt-down II, and the Virginia melt-down that all preceded that.

I guess he did win one of those."

Even I didn't realize it was that many blown games until I went through it. Am I missing any?
 

station19 said:
Don't leave out the stutters and stammers.

I can not believe this guy is on the air. Is there really a market for his crap?
Click to expand...

I personally love listening to Dubay. P.A. and Dubay were awesome together. Now, P.A. is extremely hard to listen to. Does Dubay talk fast and stutter some times? Sure, but his knowledge and passion is the best in the biz. There is no denying that. If only he didnt have to team up with Judd. That guy is horrible.
 

I agree with him for the most part. For some reason people seem to think Mason was coaching with a level playing field compared to what Brewster and Kill have to work with. If Mason had the new stadium plus the added administration support that Kill now enjoys there's no doubt in my mind that he could have taken the program to another level. I don't see why that is such an unreasonable position to take. Mason was a very good coach. The fact that after his first 2 years here he won close to 50% (30-35) of his Big Ten games while playing in the Metrodome was a minor miracle. From '99 - '06 (8 seasons) he had 4 seasons of .500 or better in the conference and only 1 season worse than 3-5. He had Minnesota competitive in the Big Ten whether people on here will admit that or not. During the Metrodome era it was almost impossible to win here. That's just a fact.

Having said that, I'll say what has been said so many times. Firing Mason wasn't the problem. Hiring Brewster was the problem and that's what set the program back a few years. But the Mason hatred from Gopher fans is bizarre to me. I've been going to Gopher games since 1984 when I was 8 years old and the best moments by far in Gopher football that I've witnessed almost all came during the Mason era, and it's not even close.
 

highwayman said:
Even I didn't realize it was that many blown games until I went through it. Am I missing any?
Click to expand...

The embodiment of his incompetence was 2000 at Wisconsin. Leading 12-3, he decided to kick a 50 plus yard field goal into the wind with about a minute left in the first half. Yada, yada, yada....three plays later, Wisconsin 45 yard touchdown...12-10 lead at halftime turns into 41-20 loss.
 

DMB123 said:
I agree with him for the most part. For some reason people seem to think Mason was coaching with a level playing field compared to what Brewster and Kill have to work with. If Mason had the new stadium plus the added administration support that Kill now enjoys there's no doubt in my mind that he could have taken the program to another level. I don't see why that is such an unreasonable position to take. Mason was a very good coach. The fact that after his first 2 years here he won close to 50% (30-35) of his Big Ten games while playing in the Metrodome was a minor miracle. From '99 - '06 (8 seasons) he had 4 seasons of .500 or better in the conference and only 1 season worse than 3-5. He had Minnesota competitive in the Big Ten whether people on here will admit that or not. During the Metrodome era it was almost impossible to win here. That's just a fact.

Having said that, I'll say what has been said so many times. Firing Mason wasn't the problem. Hiring Brewster was the problem and that's what set the program back a few years. But the Mason hatred from Gopher fans is bizarre to me. I've been going to Gopher games since 1984 when I was 8 years old and the best moments by far in Gopher football that I've witnessed almost all came during the Mason era, and it's not even close.
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I'm not a Mason hater, I think he was a decent coach.... What turned me off completely with Mason was his flirtation with...no I mean his begging for the Ohio State job and when he didn't get it he appeared to mentally check out...
 

Maverick said:
I'm not a Mason hater, I think he was a decent coach.... What turned me off completely with Mason was his flirtation with...no I mean his begging for the Ohio State job and when he didn't get it he appeared to mentally check out...
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I had no problem with him interviewing for the Ohio State job, and anyone outside of our Gopher bubble would have thought he was CRAZY to not interview for that job. It's his alma mater for god's sake, not to mention a blueblood program in college football. I think it's beyond unreasonable of Gopher fans to hammer Mason for that. I also disagree with the theory of Mason 'mentally checking out' late in his term here. There's no basis for that at all in my opinion.

I don't see why any of this matters though. Mason's been gone for 6 years now, and I think Jerry Kill is the best coach we've had here since Holtz and I truly believe we are about to enter an era of Gopher Football with very similar success to what Wisconsin has achieved after the Alvarez hire. The next 10-15 years are going to be special here, I just know it.
 

DLguy said:
I personally love listening to Dubay. P.A. and Dubay were awesome together. Now, P.A. is extremely hard to listen to. Does Dubay talk fast and stutter some times? Sure, but his knowledge and passion is the best in the biz. There is no denying that. If only he didnt have to team up with Judd. That guy is horrible.
Click to expand...

It's kind of unfair to compare winning percentage of Mason or even Brewster. He's been the coach for two years. If you really want to make a comparison take the first two years of each and then compare.

Holtz 41%
Wacker 31%
Mason 19%
Brewster 19%
Kill 25%

Kill's first two years is almost a perfect mean of every coach who took this team over this program in similar circumstances over the past 30 years or so.

Now let's look at the next two years of the coaches who stuck around. Now I'm gonna lump Gutie in here since he essentially a continuation of Holtz.

Gutie 56% or 9 wins.
Wacker 12% or 2 wins.
Mason 56% or 9 wins.
Brew 27% 3 wins 0 in 2010.

What conclusion do I draw from this? Seasons 3 and 4 are a better indicators of the potential success and longevity of a coach here than the first two. Second, it reveals why Kill plays so many young guys ahead over older players as opposed to redshirting them. We've taken our lumps for a few seasons and now we're going to play more to win than to develop.
 

gophmeister said:
It's kind of unfair to compare winning percentage of Mason or even Brewster. He's been the coach for two years. If you really want to make a comparison take the first two years of each and then compare.

Holtz 41%
Wacker 31%
Mason 19%
Brewster 19%
Kill 25%

Kill's first two years is almost a perfect mean of every coach who took this team over this program in similar circumstances over the past 30 years or so.

Now let's look at the next two years of the coaches who stuck around. Now I'm gonna lump Gutie in here since he essentially a continuation of Holtz.

Gutie 56% or 9 wins.
Wacker 12% or 2 wins.
Mason 56% or 9 wins.
Brew 27% 3 wins 0 in 2010.

What conclusion do I draw from this? Seasons 3 and 4 are a better indicators of the potential success and longevity of a coach here than the first two. Second, it reveals why Kill plays so many young guys ahead over older players as opposed to redshirting them. We've taken our lumps for a few seasons and now we're going to play more to win than to develop.
Click to expand...

I think you are making a very fair assessment here gophmeister. It is reasonable to say that years 3 & 4 will tell the story on Coach Kill's ability to either survive and probably rival Coach Mason's 10 year tenure here (which is what I am hoping for) or it will be quite evident that if things go the way of Brewster or Wacker, there would be no hope of ever reaching the .400 winning percentage mark that in itself is not quite enough to keep you from being bought out and fired.

If there are 16 B1G games in the next two seasons, and Coach Kill's Charges win 9, that would put Coach Kill's Conference record at 13-19. That would be that ever so dangerous .400 mark (.406 to be exact.)
I'd certainly be in favor of giving him another extension on his contract if he and his staff can get 9 Conference wins in the next two seasons... In fact, if he and his staff and the team can get 7 conference wins in the next two seasons, as long as they also win bowl game invitations and win a bowl game or two, I think it would be new contract time for the Coach and his staff. They have the advantage of the new stadium and more administrative support, BUT, with Nebraska added to the mix, I think that the Conference is now tougher potentially than it was for either Gutey or Mason in terms of being able to win Conference games. That Nebraska game is just about always going to be like adding a Michigan or Ohio State game to the schedule...It will take more depth and experience to be competitive with Nebraska...Michigan...Ohio State along with the standard cast of characters that make up the conference.

I just don't know if the people on this board really realize just what a task it will be to win 9 Conference games in the next two years. It would be HUGE. Believe me, IF the Gophers can achieve that, I will be seeing them play some pretty darn decent football! Therefore, I will be impressed if the Gophers can win 7 Conference games in the next two years. Of course, I will be hoping for more, but, as I look at the schedule...I think we will be on a GOOD upward trend IF we can win 3 Conference games in 2013 and 4 conference games in 2014. Believe me, I WANT more and I HOPE for more...but wishes and wants are only part of what is needed to even get 7 Conference wins in the next two seasons.

I want that extra game at the end of the year both seasons though!

; 0 )
 

Eagan said:
Recent Gophers football coaches and their Big 10 winning percentages:

20% Wacker
40% Mason
22% Brewster
25% Kill
Click to expand...

Careful with the facts around here, certain folks get pissy. I love the OP showing Mase's record against everyone. He may have beaten Michigan and Ohio St only once, but those are the only times we've beaten those teams in something like 25 years each. While his Big Ten record was not good, and it was likely time for him to go when he did, he still was the best coach in 50 years...
 

Sparlimb said:
Careful with the facts around here, certain folks get pissy. I love the OP showing Mase's record against everyone. He may have beaten Michigan and Ohio St only once, but those are the only times we've beaten those teams in something like 25 years each. While his Big Ten record was not good, and it was likely time for him to go when he did, he still was the best coach in 50 years...
Click to expand...

Don't get me started on facts...
 

DMB123 said:
I had no problem with him interviewing for the Ohio State job, and anyone outside of our Gopher bubble would have thought he was CRAZY to not interview for that job. It's his alma mater for god's sake, not to mention a blueblood program in college football. I think it's beyond unreasonable of Gopher fans to hammer Mason for that. I also disagree with the theory of Mason 'mentally checking out' late in his term here. There's no basis for that at all in my opinion.

I don't see why any of this matters though. Mason's been gone for 6 years now, and I think Jerry Kill is the best coach we've had here since Holtz and I truly believe we are about to enter an era of Gopher Football with very similar success to what Wisconsin has achieved after the Alvarez hire. The next 10-15 years are going to be special here, I just know it.
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I didn't mind him interviewing for it either... It's what happened after that he appeared to lose total interest in his job... That's when the program started slipping from the high he had brought it to....

Not a hater, just agree that it was time for him to move on...
 

DMB123 said:
and I think Jerry Kill is the best coach we've had here since Holtz and I truly believe we are about to enter an era of Gopher Football with very similar success to what Wisconsin has achieved after the Alvarez hire. The next 10-15 years are going to be special here, I just know it.
Click to expand...

I'm with you partner!
 


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