What is it going to take for us to stop the run next year?

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WorkingMyTailOff

WorkingMyTailOff

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Against arguably a tougher schedule next year, we would like to see the win total increase from 6 to 7 or 8. I think overall we are definitely moving in the right direction, but if I could pick two things that I would like to see marked improvement for next season it would be a) ability to run the ball and b) ability to stop the run.

So on the defensive side, will an offseason of coaching + weight room + some new players = the ability to stop the likes of Iowa and Northwestern from gashing us for large runs?
 




that is a really good question. I get the wide spread DEs to rush the passer. We have proof that works. But I do not understand how the LBs and safetys are supposed to fill the holes with the DTs penetrting as much as they are supposed to. I have been told the idea is to force the RB to pick a lane earlier than they would like, but the success is still dependint on LBs and safetys fighting through a lot of blocks, so I don't understand it with our LB talent. If someone can explain what it takes any more clearly than "better linebackers", I would like to understand it myself.
 




Rojo coming back healthy would be a nice start. However, we really need a middle linebacker who isn't going to get sucked into the garbage every play. To me Hill is the only guy who looked competent most of the time.
 

nokomismod said:
if I could pick two things that I would like to see marked improvement for next season it would be a) ability to run the ball and b) ability to stop the run.
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If you posed the question to almost any coach in the country right now about what they would like to see their team do better next year I would bet no less than 75% would say that exact quote from above. That is football 101

So as to how we do it, yeah that is the million dollar question. Stronger on the DL to not get pushed around and talent in the LB core to make plays. The first part seems likely given they have an off season to work on things and Hageman will be back in the middle next year. The second one...yeah not sure what the LB core is going to look like next year but hopefully some talent shows up. LB play in 2012 was pretty bad and many of the key parts of that unit are gone, that could be a good thing but on a team that has not hesitated to play youth over vetrans it is a bit concerning that none of the youth was seen as good enough to unseat a vertern who was not getting it done.
 



A huge part of our problem was that our safeties did a poor job of limiting long runs to 8-15 yards.

Our linebackers really struggled too. We need our MLB (especially) to shed a few blocks.

Another thing that will help is that Botticelli, Ekpe and Johnson will all be stronger again next year. They are all smallish DTs and guys who need to get stronger.
 

I was very frustrated with all the DL and Linebackers ability to get off a block and make a play last year. It seemed like if a player was engaged in a block last year they did a poor job either beating the block or just disrupting the play enough to allow others to rally to the ball and gang tackle. This will be a huge key this coming year.
 

Shedding blocks was the biggest weakness of our LB's last year. Way too many times were they getting pushed 5 or 10 yards backwards.
 

It was more than getting pushed 5 or 10 yards back

GophersInIowa said:
Shedding blocks was the biggest weakness of our LB's last year. Way too many times were they getting pushed 5 or 10 yards backwards.
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To me you could watch many of the explosive runs and say it was just as much scheme as it was execution.
If your going to play wide gaps you cannot have defensive takles stunting out of position or ending up on roller skates like Hageman, Botticelli, Ekpe and Roland Johnson all did on ocassion. Both Northwesern runs Hageman took himself out of the play looping outside instead of maintaining his gap both runs seemed like mistakes. That and we were caught in nickle defenses and spread out wide and gave a lot of cushion. Need a middle linebacker that can change the call on the fly and recognize when the QB has audibled.
The defensive line shared in the explosive run plays as much as the linebackers did most games last year. Defensive line is going to have to do a better job of supporting the rush defense.

If your going to play your front like the Gophers do and scheme for that, then you will need a strong safety that is like
an extra linebacker to funnel tackles too, and corners that can maintain man coverage.

As far as the linebackers go, yes we need linebackers that have linebacker instincts, better seds, not filling unecessary gaps, taking on blocks head on and driving them in to gaps, instead of stepping outside of blocks or getting out of position. It is pretty simple, man your gap, not somebody else's, the more the Gophers do that the better the defense as a whole will be. As a linebacker you have to defeat your blocks, and cannot always stay blocked as we had a lot of problems with last year.
Hopefully Hill can lead the new guy' out there and they trust each other to do there jobs not somebody else's.
 



corcoran1 said:
that is a really good question. I get the wide spread DEs to rush the passer. We have proof that works. But I do not understand how the LBs and safetys are supposed to fill the holes with the DTs penetrting as much as they are supposed to. I have been told the idea is to force the RB to pick a lane earlier than they would like, but the success is still dependint on LBs and safetys fighting through a lot of blocks, so I don't understand it with our LB talent. If someone can explain what it takes any more clearly than "better linebackers", I would like to understand it myself.
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It really has to do with shedding blocks. Far to often last year our LB's were getting bottled up by the OL or even TE's (how pathetic) for that matter and couldn't shed the block. The gap has to be filled by a LB if our Safety's are coming down too often then we are susceptible to play action.

A great example for you, would be to watch Patrick Willis (especially) and Ray Lewis during the Superbowl. Watch how they read the play, shed the blocker, and then attack the gap. Obviously, we don't have a player of this caliber but it will give you a better sense of what a MLB is supposed to do!

Hopefully that helps.
 

Big steps from Edwards and Manuel and hopefully Damien Wilson will be an instant impact.
 

Watching Michigan State's run defense dominate our attempts at running the ball this year was textbook. Their guys were just bigger and stronger and pushed straight ahead in their lanes. Our running backs did not have a chance.
 

nokomismod said:
Watching Michigan State's run defense dominate our attempts at running the ball this year was textbook. Their guys were just bigger and stronger and pushed straight ahead in their lanes. Our running backs did not have a chance.
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I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure our OL was in disarray at that point of the season. Not to take anything away from Michigan State but a healthy OL goes a long ways.
 


gopherdudepart2 said:
To me you could watch many of the explosive runs and say it was just as much scheme as it was execution.
If your going to play wide gaps you cannot have defensive takles stunting out of position or ending up on roller skates like Hageman, Botticelli, Ekpe and Roland Johnson all did on ocassion. Both Northwesern runs Hageman took himself out of the play looping outside instead of maintaining his gap both runs seemed like mistakes. That and we were caught in nickle defenses and spread out wide and gave a lot of cushion. Need a middle linebacker that can change the call on the fly and recognize when the QB has audibled.
The defensive line shared in the explosive run plays as much as the linebackers did most games last year. Defensive line is going to have to do a better job of supporting the rush defense.

If your going to play your front like the Gophers do and scheme for that, then you will need a strong safety that is like
an extra linebacker to funnel tackles too, and corners that can maintain man coverage.

As far as the linebackers go, yes we need linebackers that have linebacker instincts, better seds, not filling unecessary gaps, taking on blocks head on and driving them in to gaps, instead of stepping outside of blocks or getting out of position. It is pretty simple, man your gap, not somebody else's, the more the Gophers do that the better the defense as a whole will be. As a linebacker you have to defeat your blocks, and cannot always stay blocked as we had a lot of problems with last year.
Hopefully Hill can lead the new guy' out there and they trust each other to do there jobs not somebody else's.
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Oh, I agree with this as well. Even just how we line up sometimes. There were some plays where it was so obvious we were outnumbered on one side or another and any competent QB could see it. Not sure if guys weren't lining up right or what but there is no way it was supposed to be like that.
 

I hear ya but I gotta believe we will fix it

GophersInIowa said:
Oh, I agree with this as well. Even just how we line up sometimes. There were some plays where it was so obvious we were outnumbered on one side or another and any competent QB could see it. Not sure if guys weren't lining up right or what but there is no way it was supposed to be like that.
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The Iowa game was the most frustrating game I have watched. They talk about Adrian Peterson gaining the majority of his yards after contact. No Gopher ever touched the Iowa running back. He broke no tackles. He just ran in a channel untouched to the endzone. That could be pathetic performance or bad scheme. Who fixed it? Iowa by going away from what worked or our second half adjustments? If it was our adjustments we need to be a bit more hasty in our corrections.

At this writing we have 15 recruits. 8 of them are defensive linemen or linebackers.
That tells me the coaches are aware of this problem. I'll trust they will solve it.

I'd like to think we are a work in progress.
The overall defense absolutely was better in 2012. Get a little better versus the pass and a lot better versus the run and all of a sudden we are pretty good.
 

corcoran1 said:
that is a really good question. I get the wide spread DEs to rush the passer. We have proof that works. But I do not understand how the LBs and safetys are supposed to fill the holes with the DTs penetrting as much as they are supposed to. I have been told the idea is to force the RB to pick a lane earlier than they would like, but the success is still dependint on LBs and safetys fighting through a lot of blocks, so I don't understand it with our LB talent. If someone can explain what it takes any more clearly than "better linebackers", I would like to understand it myself.
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The scheme must call for the d-line to engage the o-lineman, the current system calls for them focus on getting past get past the o-lineman to the QB. As a result the backers are getting destroyed by unimpeded o-lineman. Also, our best d-lineman MUST stop standing straight up. When he plays with his pads low he is nearly unstoppable. When he doesn't, he can be blocked by anyone in front of him.

The S's are S's in name only, playing 4 cb's in the secondary is great for pass protection (also consider the d-line was only concerned with the rush) at some point they have to tackle also. This was compounded by rb's frequently getting to this level untouched, which would be a problem even if you had Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu in their prime back there. I feel better about these guys because we have some tremendous football players back there; two of them just need to become S's...which I bet/hope will happen with one year under their belts (folks need to remember they had two guys back there new to the position).
 

gopherdudepart2 said:
To me you could watch many of the explosive runs and say it was just as much scheme as it was execution.
If your going to play wide gaps you cannot have defensive takles stunting out of position or ending up on roller skates like Hageman, Botticelli, Ekpe and Roland Johnson all did on ocassion. Both Northwesern runs Hageman took himself out of the play looping outside instead of maintaining his gap both runs seemed like mistakes. That and we were caught in nickle defenses and spread out wide and gave a lot of cushion. Need a middle linebacker that can change the call on the fly and recognize when the QB has audibled.
The defensive line shared in the explosive run plays as much as the linebackers did most games last year. Defensive line is going to have to do a better job of supporting the rush defense.

If your going to play your front like the Gophers do and scheme for that, then you will need a strong safety that is like
an extra linebacker to funnel tackles too, and corners that can maintain man coverage.

As far as the linebackers go, yes we need linebackers that have linebacker instincts, better seds, not filling unecessary gaps, taking on blocks head on and driving them in to gaps, instead of stepping outside of blocks or getting out of position. It is pretty simple, man your gap, not somebody else's, the more the Gophers do that the better the defense as a whole will be. As a linebacker you have to defeat your blocks, and cannot always stay blocked as we had a lot of problems with last year.
Hopefully Hill can lead the new guy' out there and they trust each other to do there jobs not somebody else's.
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I agree with most of your take. We had the part in bold in 2011 and it still didn't work. If you bring your SS up teams will run double moves with the wr opposite the remaining S. It's hard enough to stop a double with a pass rush and impossible without a pass rush. The will also make the FS play coverage by running seam routes with the TE which will force both CB's to play man with no over the top help; there goes your pass defense. Now you have a quarter of your defense running away from the line of scrimmage with their backs turned; one missed tackle.......

That SS can lead the conference in tackling (which he did) and it won't matter....what I'm saying is I don't like the scheme. To be successful you have to have supperior players to your opponent at the majority of the positions on defense versus the offense.

Now that I have said that....watch the gophers win the Rosebowl with the nations leading defense!
 

2011 gopher defense would have worked fine

This scheme works well with having a Strong Safety that can make tackles and support the run in the mode of #22 TC and like Royston. SF24 you are right though in it is susceptable the scheme to play action and TE burning the Gophers up the seem. How is Kim doing, is he still trying to work on getting in to football as a player CFL, the UFL or NFL camps, what about coaching if his playing days are over, you would think PA could pull some strings with the Vikes for an internship or training camp roll?
SF24 Your Spot on with #99 nobody can block him if he keeps his pad level correct and doesn't stand up straight or run out of position, the guy is a beast and almost unblockable when he does those things.

The 2011 lacked defensive ends that could generate pressure, yet this is what they were coached to do, get up the field, that and they were severely undersized. Wilhite finally came into his own this year to bad he doesn't have another year of college, the guy sounds like he will do well outside of football though. It the 2011 D ultimately failed because of that reliance on the SS to make all of the tackles and no pass rush, and we were missing a corner who finally showed up this year Carter. That and the 2011 D had an inexperienced string bean at FS #8 that was singled out, who was out of position and place, and picked on by the other side. The QB isolated on him to frequently and the walk on at CB who played his butt off but just didn't have the talent to be out there but he was what we had left. I always felt bad for that guy, he tried hard but the scheme made him get doubled a lot.
I still wonder how the Iowa game was won by the Gophers but they got some lucky bounces and played with about as much heart on D as you can for a defense lacking 11 guys.

I also thought #52 Tinsley should have been given more freedom to adjust and change the calls as he seemed more than capable of doing that but the new staff must not have trusted him to do that at least in my opionion they did not, seems like the linebackers that year could have been a lot better if they had been coached up to adjust to what they were seeing and I thought Tinsley was good enough to do that. It is easy to be the arm chair QB and talk about these things having the advanatage of seeing them after the fact. Now that the staff seems to know the players better they seem to be trusting them more and giving them more freedom. Maybe they will have traditional captains from here on out. That is the one thing I dislike about the current version of the scheme the O-lineman seem to be able to block freely and get on our linebackers without engaging the D-line enough. Now that The Gophers are starting to get more D-lineman that are older, stronger and more experienced I expect this to change. Yes there still going to rush the passer, but I expect them to be able to make more adjustments, break off the pass rush and close down and engage the lineman and backs. Having more experience and strength in the front 4 should allow them to coach that and make that change. You can see the defense is starting to change they are more physical and make less mistakes, the change seems to happening on the defensive side of the ball first which I like.
 

I do agree with gophmeister, at the end of the season I thought Hill was the best LB by a lot, and Manuel was making progress. Edwards was never healthy long enough to practice, play or get game experience. I have great hopes for Lynn, good athlete, and smart player.
 

corcoran1 said:
I do agree with gophmeister, at the end of the season I thought Hill was the best LB by a lot, and Manuel was making progress. Edwards was never healthy long enough to practice, play or get game experience. I have great hopes for Lynn, good athlete, and smart player.
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LB will be one of the more interesting positions to keep tabs on during the spring in order to see who starts to establish themselves going into next season. Hill would certainly look like an odds on favorite to be one of the starters but I would say nothing is certain given the overall play at LB last season.
 

MNVCGUY said:
LB will be one of the more interesting positions to keep tabs on during the spring in order to see who starts to establish themselves going into next season. Hill would certainly look like an odds on favorite to be one of the starters but I would say nothing is certain given the overall play at LB last season.
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+1

Apart from NSD, I'm very excited to watch spring ball and see how this position along with Hageman develop.
 

Sportsfan24 said:
I agree with most of your take. We had the part in bold in 2011 and it still didn't work. If you bring your SS up teams will run double moves with the wr opposite the remaining S. It's hard enough to stop a double with a pass rush and impossible without a pass rush. The will also make the FS play coverage by running seam routes with the TE which will force both CB's to play man with no over the top help; there goes your pass defense. Now you have a quarter of your defense running away from the line of scrimmage with their backs turned; one missed tackle.......

That SS can lead the conference in tackling (which he did) and it won't matter....what I'm saying is I don't like the scheme. To be successful you have to have supperior players to your opponent at the majority of the positions on defense versus the offense.

Now that I have said that....watch the gophers win the Rosebowl with the nations leading defense!
Click to expand...
Good posts, I think you are safe this year, and I believe TCU has made a similar concept work, but that is against mostly spread teams.
Actually I think it is a great defense against passing teams, the Syracuse game was the most fun I have had watching a Goph defense in a while, but we needed tacklers like Kim and Tinsley last year agaisnt power teams. I like Wells a lot, but I thought he was going to get killed out there against power teams.
 


Is Beal going to be playing next season or is he walking away from football after all his injuries?
 

gophers141 said:
Is Beal going to be playing next season or is he walking away from football after all his injuries?
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He is still on the roster although I thought someone on here mentioned something about him taking a medical hardship possibly. Regardless though i think given all the knee problems he has had over the past few years it is pretty foolish to count on him to be part of the rotation next year or beyond. Feel terrible for him but it just doesn't seem like football is in his future with all his injury problems.
 

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