I know this not a Queens board but.....

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Bayfieldgopher

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......the use of TCF for the Queens gain seems to be a hot topic. And I can't resist but will try to be diplomatic despite my dismay.

I am amazed that people from Minnesota are balking about keeping the Vikings in Minnesota which would require a new stadium. Yet the lawmakers and taxpayers OK'd new digs for our Gophers, Twins, Guthrie (hope I am not out of line with this one) and maybe others. The Twins are similiar to the Vikings being privately owned.

Here is the deal.

This concern for paying for the stadium with additonal taxes is short-sighted and......well, rather shortsighted. Why would any concerned tax payer opt to pay higher taxes? Right? Makes sense but people do, very willingly and seldom think twice about it.

Take a look at the malls in Woodbury/etc and see how many vehicles have Wisconsin license plates. Why do people from Wisconsin opt to pay 6.75% sales tax, or whatever, when they can shop in Wisconsin and pay 5.5%? Convenience maybe but Hudson is a decent place to shop. I see the same thing in Duluth where the collective sales tax is 7.5% compared to 5.5% in Superior. Huh!

So taxpayers are willing shop at a retail outlet that costs them more even though it is is owned by a corporation or individual? Wisconsin taxpayers are no different than Minnesota's. Yet people get stubborn when it come to paying for a stadium where an individual own the team.

The Twins got their stadium through what? A .15% sales tax in Hennepin county or some miniscual(sp) amount? Did anyone even notice or care about the tax after the bill was signed? Probably not. But during the decision making process, people bitch and complain then after a bill is passed they forget about it.

Buck up Minnesota people, quit you whining and do what is necessary to keep the resources you have before its too late. Remember the North Stars, I mean Wild?
 

One thing - people shop at malls here because no tax on clothes. The Mall of America has lobbied very hard to keep that from happening because it's a major draw for tourism.

As for the rest I agree. The Twins tax was 1 cent on every $20 and resulted in not only the stadium, but longer library hours and refurbished playgrounds, etc.

If the game on Monday night goes well - I can see them using this as a "trial" run so to speak.
 

Zygi Wilf is a real estate developer. That's all he is. He came to MN because he saw a buying opportunity. He knew that the dome was on its last legs and that the team would need a new stadium. He thought he could swoop in, buy the Vikings at a discount, extort the public and legislature into paying the majority of the bill for some totally insane new stadium, and sell high, at a 9-figure profit, leaving the public holding the bag on a depreciating asset. It's that simple.

Minnesota makes an especially attractive target for vultures like Zyg because historically it has been pretty comfortable spending public money on just about anything. (Witness the current massive budget deficit...) The great thing about taxation from a corporation's (Zyg's) perspective is that you get to send your debtors to jail if they don't pay, which makes them among the most reliable of investments....

What Zyg didn't figure in all of this was the bursting of the greatest real estate bubble in history. It really messed up his plans, so he and his army of lackeys (virtually the entire MN corporate media) are beginning to turn up the heat. By the time the fearmongering campaign shifts into high gear, even its most steadfast opponents will be perceived as extremist lunatics, and the impoverished Minnesota sheeple will be begging on their knees for the privilege of getting bent over and sodomized with the wide end of a Viking horn for the next 30 years.
 

Let Zigi build his own stadium. Bob Kraft threatened for years to move out of Mass. before bucking in and building Gillette with private financing. The cat's out of the bag on these shysters.

The Twins should have been contracted.
 

Lawmakers have ok'd a new Vikings stadium - they haven't ok'd the $750M the Vikings want the state to pay.
 


We have greater issues and problems than building a football stadium for a rich guy who pays less income tax percentage wise than the average Minnesotan does.
 

Ultimately, I believe the vikings will get a stadium, but they're not getting the sweet deal they want. No way they get a stadium without a significant contribution to it's construction.
 

After seeing how "well" the state did with the Metrodome, I don't want the state involved in any design or structural aspect of a new Vikings stadium.
 

That is such a simple view of life. Many of the "greater issues" are the typical ones, education, human services, creating jobs and other B.S.. Education in Minnesota has been mis managed for years which has created their problem, human services are "no questions asked" in this state and creating jobs has zero to do with the tax payers.
The rich guy and the NFL are willing to buck up and make a commitment but want the tax payers to share the cost. Its no different than what Sams club, Cosco, target, Walmart, acme company get every year they build a new store or facility. Northwest airlines ripped us all off with their botched Duluth facility $600,000,000! How many Hippocrates buy goods on the internet and avoid tax? Tax that is by law supposed to be self reported and payed to the state of Minnesota. Guess what? The tax that is not collected by the state here from internet sales is approaching one billion dollars a year. If everyone and every business reported internet purchases to the state and payed the tax which is lawful, we would have more business, services, and no opposition to a new stadium for the rich guy. Minnesotans are such Hippocrates.
 






loki said:
We have greater issues and problems than building a football stadium for a rich guy who pays less income tax percentage wise than the average Minnesotan does.
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Yes because Zygi is the only one who will benefit from a new stadium. Thinking that a new stadium is only being built for the owner is a very shortsighted way of looking at in my opinion. Just because something may benefit a millionaire doesn't automatically make it a bad thing.
 



Call Zygi's bluff. The NFL doesn't want to break up the NFC north because it actually has tradition. It's not like the Vikings are the Jacksonville Jaguars. It'll get done without the states help.
 

13 Lined Ground Squirrel said:
Let Zigi build his own stadium. Bob Kraft threatened for years to move out of Mass. before bucking in and building Gillette with private financing. The cat's out of the bag on these shysters.

The Twins should have been contracted.
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please take this dink's posting rights away, saying the Twins should be contracted is like a pinko commie liberal spitting on my Army uniform... :horse: <<---donkey


also, I don't want Zygi to pay for the whole stadium himself, if a new stadium is built, it won't be "THE VIKINGS STADIUM", it will be a multi-use facility run by the state and used for numerous events that will help pay for it. Yes it will be highlighted for the Vikings, but will be a facility that's amongst those in Houston, Phoenix, Atlanta, Detroit and Indy. Where Superbowls and FinalFours will be attracted bringing in MILLIONS of out of state dollars. If Zygi pays for it all, it'll be all outdoors and Vikings only, yay, 10+ Vikings games, then shut down the rest of the year....
 


Gopher028 said:
also, I don't want Zygi to pay for the whole stadium himself, if a new stadium is built, it won't be "THE VIKINGS STADIUM", it will be a multi-use facility run by the state and used for numerous events that will help pay for it. Yes it will be highlighted for the Vikings, but will be a facility that's amongst those in Houston, Phoenix, Atlanta, Detroit and Indy. Where Superbowls and FinalFours will be attracted bringing in MILLIONS of out of state dollars
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There isn't a large enough number I could reasonably type here to add my agreement to this post. Therefore, all of it should be written in CAPS.
 

Gopher028 said:
also, I don't want Zygi to pay for the whole stadium himself, if a new stadium is built, it won't be "THE VIKINGS STADIUM", it will be a multi-use facility run by the state and used for numerous events that will help pay for it. Yes it will be highlighted for the Vikings, but will be a facility that's amongst those in Houston, Phoenix, Atlanta, Detroit and Indy. Where Superbowls and FinalFours will be attracted bringing in MILLIONS of out of state dollars. If Zygi pays for it all, it'll be all outdoors and Vikings only, yay, 10+ Vikings games, then shut down the rest of the year....
Click to expand...

I hope you know a new stadium will not bring in Superbowls and Final Fours. It might bring in one Superbowl and one Final Four if they play their cards right. That's hardly a continuous revenue stream. It also better bring in hundreds of millions, not just millions, or the investment isn't sound.
 

as a sports fan I want a nfl stadium no matter what is costs. We built the gophers a stadium, twins, now the vikes are up.
 

I just wanted chime in. I just can't believe people want to spend money on a new Vikings stadium. I put a negative value on the Vikings and don't care if they leave. I didn't care when the North Stars left either.
So folks can disagree. Remember the Vikings only play 8 games a year.
Seems logical to fix the roof on the dome. Much cheaper.
Vikings don't deserve a new stadium. Twins had to wait 50 years dome was built specifically for Vikings not baseball
 

loki said:
+1000 Now thats funny!
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WyldStallyns.jpg
 

We need a multi-use facility in this state

Years of watching the Vikings choke has made me a little indifferent to their plight on the field, but I am definitely in favor of doing what it takes to keep them in Minnesota. This is mainly because we need a multi-use facility like the Metrodome in this state.

As we all know, the Metrodome is used almost every day of the year for all sorts of events beyond the 10 games a year the Vikings play there. But in order to survive, the Metrodome needs a major tenant like the Vikings. If the Vikings ever left, there would be no way the Metrodome would stay open. The MSFC wouldn't be able to afford the upkeep. Eventually, they would sell the land/building and it would be torn down.

Then you know what would happen? People would start saying, "We need a multi-use facility in this state! Why don't we try to lure an NFL team here? We could get them to help pay for it! That way we wouldn't be stuck with the entire bill."

That is the way I think about it right now. This state needs a place like the Metrodome, but that building is old and falling apart. Currently we have an NFL team willing to help pay for a new building (that hopefully will be built the right way this time). I say we take them up on this offer.

That isn't to say I don't think Zygi should pony up more cash. I think he most definitely should since he will benefit from the building more than anyone. I just think it is very short sighted to show him the door without realizing we need this multi-use facility too. And we have an NFL team right now that is willing to help us pay for it.
 

Ewert86PC said:
Hippocrates? Like the Hippocratic oath?

or Hypocrites?

or are you just underscoring how poorly Minnesota had "mismanaged education?"
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I guess I used the wrong word. You know what I meant. I work long hours and am in a hurry sometimes. I apologize. I see people all the time on this board correcting others for spelling and writing errors which is really annoying. I know some people feel so smart being able to correct and criticize another for such mistakes. Its OK.
 

16FeetUnder said:
I hope you know a new stadium will not bring in Superbowls and Final Fours. It might bring in one Superbowl and one Final Four if they play their cards right. That's hardly a continuous revenue stream. It also better bring in hundreds of millions, not just millions, or the investment isn't sound.
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You may only get one final four, but you will get multiple round of 16 dates which bring in close to as much money as a final four.
 

Silvio said:
You may only get one final four, but you will get multiple round of 16 dates which bring in close to as much money as a final four.
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The Sweet Sixteen weekends are indeed great, but didn't the dome have at least two final fours? I suspect we'd get back in the rotation since they have all gone so well here in the past.
 

snackeru said:
Years of watching the Vikings choke has made me a little indifferent to their plight on the field, but I am definitely in favor of doing what it takes to keep them in Minnesota. This is mainly because we need a multi-use facility like the Metrodome in this state.

As we all know, the Metrodome is used almost every day of the year for all sorts of events beyond the 10 games a year the Vikings play there. But in order to survive, the Metrodome needs a major tenant like the Vikings. If the Vikings ever left, there would be no way the Metrodome would stay open. The MSFC wouldn't be able to afford the upkeep. Eventually, they would sell the land/building and it would be torn down.

Then you know what would happen? People would start saying, "We need a multi-use facility in this state! Why don't we try to lure an NFL team here? We could get them to help pay for it! That way we wouldn't be stuck with the entire bill."

That is the way I think about it right now. This state needs a place like the Metrodome, but that building is old and falling apart. Currently we have an NFL team willing to help pay for a new building (that hopefully will be built the right way this time). I say we take them up on this offer.

That isn't to say I don't think Zygi should pony up more cash. I think he most definitely should since he will benefit from the building more than anyone. I just think it is very short sighted to show him the door without realizing we need this multi-use facility too. And we have an NFL team right now that is willing to help us pay for it.
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+1 to this entire post. Since Shane probably knows more about this then the rest of us combined, I will just leave it at that, except to highlight the Vikings need to step it up. With the Dome collapse they've probably never had momentum more on thier side. Their waffling on a site and how much they want to pay is probably thier biggest problem. They need to pick a site and firmly commit to paying 1/3 of the cost including a roof. That will put the pressure squarely on the legistlature. The Dome needs to be replaced and here is a specific plan to do so with the Vikings paying 1/3. I think they would figure it out.
 

year of the gopher said:
The Sweet Sixteen weekends are indeed great, but didn't the dome have at least two final fours? I suspect we'd get back in the rotation since they have all gone so well here in the past.
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I think a new stadium would get two at a mimum. The NCAA raved about the job MSP did both times. They may even have given to Dome a 3rd one if its future had been more certain. They've pretty much settled on large Domed venues only and there aren't really that many. Indy, Houston, Detroit and a few others. Indy gets every 4th one, which is unfair, but there's no questions Minneapolis would get in on the rotation ahead of Detroit given the success in the past.

The Super Bowl would almost certainly be a one-shot deal, but still can't be over-looked.
 


What are our priorities

I would rather give away a billion dollars to manufacturers to locate in this state and build a new nuclear plant than to build a stadium that adds nothing but a static structure that adds zero to real wealth creation.
 

loki said:
We have greater issues and problems than building a football stadium for a rich guy who pays less income tax percentage wise than the average Minnesotan does.
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Of course we have greater problems then a football stadium. This is such a straw-man arguement. There will always be homeless people. There will always be unemployed people. The idea that a Goverment can only do one thing at a time is ridiculous.

Everyone opposed the Twins stadium in large part because they resented Carl Pohlad's wealth. But it was never about Carl Pohlad. He never even lived to see Opening Day. The issue is not how wealthy Ziggy Wilf, Red McCombs, Roger Headrick or whoever the next owner is. They're just easy targets to vent your anger. The issue is do you want NFL football in Minnesota or not? If you do, you will eventually have to build an adequate facility. Wishing for an owner to come in and finance it 100% won't make it happen. So the best you can do is sit down, negotiate the best deal with Ziggy you can, and get it done.

Make him pay 1/3, or even a bit more. Make him give the same profit-on-sale deal the Twins did. But 'not one penny' is not a good-faith starting point for negotiations and will end up in the 2017 Minnesota Jaguars playing in a 100% publicly financed facility because we had to 'show that greedy Ziggy Wilf.' Cleveland did it to Art Modell, to what end? Charlotte did it with George Shinn, to what end? So they could build more expensive facilities for expansion teams and end up worse off both in $$ and in wins.
 

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