This is a fireable offense

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btowngopher said:
He didn’t inherit a great team, he inherited some players that eventually were part of a great team.
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Yes, that is true. Question is why hasn’t Fleck really gotten even close to that kind of season again with several more years of his system and his players?
 

Catechol said:
Yes, that is true. Question is why hasn’t Fleck really gotten even close to that kind of season again with several more years of his system and his players?
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I think he did get quite close several times actually.
 

Fleck is the Coordinator so stop saying we need better coordinators. He is in charge and kicks the punt to the hero returner everytime. He sucks as a coach and got lucky in 2019 with enough guys he did not bring in. It is what it is. The university is not interested in a winner, they take their cue from the Pohlads. The post about liberals was hilarious. politics has nothing to do with winning football games.
 

We are slow, plodding, and boring as schit.

This is the best it can get I guess.
 
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btowngopher said:
I agree with everyone on the coordinators. Unless there is some kind of massive NIL budget here we’re never going to consistently recruit near the top of the conference due to geography. Neither will Iowa, but they do have an elite coordinator, if they had two elite coordinators they’d be able to make a jump up as well. You either have to find a HC that is good at X’s and O’s or you have to find or pay for the coordinators. And we all know Fleck isn’t the X’s and O’s guy. You have to out coach teams here because you’ll never have enough of a talent advantage to do anything in this conference.
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For whatever reason, there is way more football talent in Iowa than Mn.
 


PJ is in his 9th season here. If you don’t know what you are going to get by now…….
 



howeda7 said:
Who do you want to replace Fleck that we can actually get? Let's see your short list.
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Don't know!

Didn't think we could get Niko Medved.

How about someone who doesn't curl up, play it safe, and get dominated by Iowa.

How about rolling the dice. If this is the best it can ever be here, then by all means, stay with fleck.
 




Ewert86PC said:
We can dream. (Yes, I'm buying property in the "Fire Fleck" neighborhood)
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Do you really want to fire him with the jobs already open or likely to be open by seasons end. How many of those open jobs are worse than the gophers from a financial/NIL and in-state talent standpoint. Not many are worse which means the gophers aren’t likely to get a proven winner as a replacement
 


Lou Brown said:
Toledo Guy. Candle? Give him a shot.
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So hire a random MAC coach who had less success there than PJ Fleck did? That's the definition of firing someone just to fire them. The odds of him being an upgrade are very low. 10% chance he's an upgrade. 40% chance it's a push. 50% chance it's a downgrade. No thanks.
 



GopherGod said:
Do you really want to fire him with the jobs already open or likely to be open by seasons end. How many of those open jobs are worse than the gophers from a financial/NIL and in-state talent standpoint. Not many are worse which means the gophers aren’t likely to get a proven winner as a replacement
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Fear mongering is what keeps this athletic department addicted to mediocrity. If you focus on what could be worse, you get what is worse.
 


Ewert86PC said:
Fear mongering is what keeps this athletic department addicted to mediocrity. If you focus on what could be worse, you get what is worse.
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At some point you have to face reality. Little to no in-state talent, poor fan support and no big money donors. You have to fix those issues first otherwise you’re just shuffling the deck chairs on the titanic. There isn’t a Nick Saban walking into Huntington Bank stadium that could overcome those challenges and fix them by his name alone. You can also change coaches every 3-5 years looking for that next Cignetti and the odds of you hitting on one here in the next 50 years is close to zero
 

howeda7 said:
So hire a random MAC coach who had less success there than PJ Fleck did? That's the definition of firing someone just to fire them. The odds of him being an upgrade are very low. 10% chance he's an upgrade. 40% chance it's a push. 50% chance it's a downgrade. No thanks.
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Come on, you’d shoot down Kirby Smart right now. Candle is just an example, he’s been there twice as long as PJ was at Western MI and has sustained success. Hell call Levar Woods from Iowa if you don’t like Candle. Maybe Woods is tired of waiting for Ferentz to retire.

Point is it’s not rational to believe that PJ Fleck is the best possible HC on the planet that the U could get.

“Don’t fear failure, fear complacency”
- PJ Fleck (I’m sure)
 

GopherGod said:
At some point you have to face reality. Little to no in-state talent, poor fan support and no big money donors. You have to fix those issues first otherwise you’re just shuffling the deck chairs on the titanic. There isn’t a Nick Saban walking into Huntington Bank stadium that could overcome those challenges and fix them by his name alone. You can also change coaches every 3-5 years looking for that next Cignetti and the odds of you hitting on one here in the next 50 years is close to zero
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How much in state talent in Iowa?
 


GopherGod said:
At some point you have to face reality. Little to no in-state talent, poor fan support and no big money donors. You have to fix those issues first otherwise you’re just shuffling the deck chairs on the titanic. There isn’t a Nick Saban walking into Huntington Bank stadium that could overcome those challenges and fix them by his name alone. You can also change coaches every 3-5 years looking for that next Cignetti and the odds of you hitting on one here in the next 50 years is close to zero
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Exactly. Minnesota can be a 7-8 win team that once a decade makes a 16 team play-off. That's basically what PJ has done. If there had been a 16 team play-off in 2019, we'd have been in it. Sure it's getting deep into the 10 year wait for the next one but that doesn't mean Random MAC Coach A is likely to bring it about any faster.
 

Gopher 461 said:
The game is over. MSU next up. Northwestern, Oregon, Wisconsin to worry about later. Win three of the next four conversation may change. Win two of the next four? Win one of the next four and Gopherholers will go nuts.
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Why?
 

kg21 said:
Of course not, but it's year 9 and we are so mediocre.

I'd love to roll the dice on someone else.
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Yes year 9 but the entire landscape of college football has changed. I don’t think anyone is going to step forward and suggest change.
 

howeda7 said:
Exactly. Minnesota can be a 7-8 win team that once a decade makes a 16 team play-off. That's basically what PJ has done. If there had been a 16 team play-off in 2019, we'd have been in it. Sure it's getting deep into the 10 year wait for the next one but that doesn't mean Random MAC Coach A is likely to bring it about any faster.
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If you win 5 big ten games more often than not logic says you eventually break through.
Meanwhile we haven’t broken through since 67


My advice is have fun watching the team or stop watching
 

Lou Brown said:
Come on, you’d shoot down Kirby Smart right now. Candle is just an example, he’s been there twice as long as PJ was at Western MI and has sustained success. Hell call Levar Woods from Iowa if you don’t like Candle. Maybe Woods is tired of waiting for Ferentz to retire.

Point is it’s not rational to believe that PJ Fleck is the best possible HC on the planet that the U could get.

“Don’t fear failure, fear complacency”
- PJ Fleck (I’m sure)
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Did anyone say he's "the best possible coach"? You're arguing to fire him, pay a massive buyout and hire a lottery ticket. If you tell me we can get Brian Kelly or James Franklin then it's a real discussion. But we probably can't and won't.
 

Some guy said:
If you win 5 big ten games more often than not logic says you eventually break through.
Meanwhile we haven’t broken through since 67


My advice is have fun watching the team or stop watching
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We haven't. But we've gotten close a few times. Then Minnesota Sports things happen...
 

GopherVotary said:
Since 1973, Fleck has our two best conference seasons, 7-2 in 2019 and 6-3
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caliGopher said:
In fairness, all Tim Brewster did was accept the job he was unqualified for when it was offered.

Fleck isn't going anywhere, but I'm willing to bet he'll leverage the rumors to try and bump HIS salary.

Coyle needs to restructure his deal to put more money to the coordinators and more incentives in his contract to earn what he's making now with opportunities to grow beyond what he's making now.

Little things like not having 8 games in a season (7 with out the 1-AA team) and have the team show up to olay for 1 game for 60 minutes.

I don't believe that Coyle has the vision or the cojohnes to do anything ither than give PJ a raise because PJs agent knows how to play him like a fiddle.

The relationship doesn't need to be adversarial, but it needs to have both sides put more skin in the game based on results on the field.
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Spot on
 

howeda7 said:
Did anyone say he's "the best possible coach"? You're arguing to fire him, pay a massive buyout and hire a lottery ticket. If you tell me we can get Brian Kelly or James Franklin then it's a real discussion. But we probably can't and won't.
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Not arguing to fire him. Arguing that it’s not ridiculous to say that difficult conversations need to place between PJ and his boss. Arguing that it’s ok to try to be great.
 

Today's performance, on top of 8 other losses to Iowa, is the type that causes donors to pull funds. Fleck dug himself a hole.

McAffee touched on this dynamic today.

 

kg21 said:
How much in state talent in Iowa?
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Not a ton more than Minnesota but again, has Iowa’s success been that much different or substantially better than Minnesota’s during the PJ tenure? Neither program is a serious contender to win the Big Ten. Are you wanting to scrap it all to try and hope to get a Ferentz level production(I.e, not that much better that what we have). You can do that but you also have to realize it could very easily swing the other way and get much worse. You have to fix the underlying program issues first. Now if you want to have a talk about replacing Coyle, cutting sports, to help provide more funding for football then I think that would make more sense.
 


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