***OFFICIAL MINNESOTA AT NORTHWESTERN IN-GAME THREAD!!!***

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bga1 said:
He's not getting fired. Coyle already gave the situation his stamp of approval the other day.
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You are aware that a vote of confidence is just a ruse, right?
 


bga1 said:
I might be ok with that. I know, he has terrific offensive skills. Something about him just doesn't add up to winning. In Big Ten games where he scored over 30.. 0-3. In Big Ten games he scored over 20....3-6. In Big Ten games he scored under 10....2-0. I don't get it but it concerns me.
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That's a quality stat pull there - Interesting for sure.

Does seem like the more Dawson is scoring, the less the ball is moving.
 

Missed watching the game but 90 is a lot to give up to that NW team.
 

bga1 said:
I might be ok with that. I know, he has terrific offensive skills. Something about him just doesn't add up to winning. In Big Ten games where he scored over 30.. 0-3. In Big Ten games he scored over 20....3-6. In Big Ten games he scored under 10....2-0. I don't get it but it concerns me.
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Christ you're a moron.
 



bga1 said:
I might be ok with that. I know, he has terrific offensive skills. Something about him just doesn't add up to winning. In Big Ten games where he scored over 30.. 0-3. In Big Ten games he scored over 20....3-6. In Big Ten games he scored under 10....2-0. I don't get it but it concerns me.
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Last year you said losing the leading scorer was addition by subtraction. Now you're saying it again. Perhaps the coach is really bad at this?
 

WorkingMyTailOff said:
Boo is a great player. This year had some of the better guards in the league in recent years.
Not a great game today and definitely the defense needs serious work. When a guard gets penetration like great guards sometimes do, the rotation and help defense is really bad. If Carrington can grow into a shutdown defender going into next year that would make a huge difference. Eric Harris and John Thomas should come in to coach some defense and toughness.
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It wasn't just Boo. Their top 4 guys killed us and their backup center, who averages 1.8 pts per game, had 9 last night.
 

bga1 said:
I might be ok with that. I know, he has terrific offensive skills. Something about him just doesn't add up to winning. In Big Ten games where he scored over 30.. 0-3. In Big Ten games he scored over 20....3-6. In Big Ten games he scored under 10....2-0. I don't get it but it concerns me.
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I felt the same way. You know the team is in trouble when Garcia's scoring dominates the scoring from the rest of the team. I'm not blaming Garcia for that and I hope he returns.

I never thought I'd say this but last year's team actually closed out the regular season better than this year's team. They've dropped 11 NET places in these last two games. I never would have expected that.
 



This wasn’t a game where Garcia got his 30 points chucking up 30 shots. He was extremely efficient at 68% shooting and added 9 boards. We’ve seen what this team is like without Garcia. To suggest we’d be better off without him is ridiculous.

The issue was team defense and the slow start yet again. We spotted them a ten point lead in the first 5 minutes. We got lucky and came back from these starts early in the year, but the stops just aren’t coming often enough anymore. You’re not going to beat many teams allowing 58% shooting.
 

Ewert86PC said:
I don't see how anything short of winning the BTT keeps Ben from getting fired.
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Boy, you don't abandon your dreams easily! He's not going to be fired despite how dismal the team looked in these last two games. He's already done enough to get a 4th year.
 


Bad Gopher said:
At Minnesota, yes. Nowhere else, though.
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I wouldn't say nowhere else or even nowhere else in the Big Ten. Hoiberg had 7 wins in each of his first two seasons at Nebraska. For his third season, they finished 10-22. They finished 16-16 in his 4th year. He got a 5th year and finally delivered with a fine season.

Pat Chambers didn't have a winning season until his 4th year at Penn State and that was only 18-16 (they won two games in the Big Ten tournament). Steve Pikiell's first three seasons at Rutgers were losing.

Stop feeling like such a victim because you're a Gopher fan. We're not alone in college basketball fan frustration and you're not trapped in a situation where you have no control. This is a matter of personal choice.
 



TwistingMyMelon said:
I wouldn't say nowhere else or even nowhere else in the Big Ten. Hoiberg had 7 wins in each of his first two seasons at Nebraska. For his third season, they finished 10-22. They finished 16-16 in his 4th year. He got a 5th year and finally delivered with a fine season.

Pat Chambers didn't have a winning season until his 4th year at Penn State and that was only 18-16 (they won two games in the Big Ten tournament). Steve Pikiell's first three seasons at Rutgers were losing.

Stop feeling like such a victim because you're a Gopher fan. We're not alone in college basketball fan frustration and you're not trapped in a situation where you have no control. This is a matter of personal choice.
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Chambers is a good comparison. Hoiberg is not, in my opinion. He had a track record that buys him more rope, especially with a traditionally downtrodden program.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Chambers is a good comparison. Hoiberg is not, in my opinion. He had a track record that buys him more rope, especially with a traditionally downtrodden program.
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I would say that the opposite should be true. Hoiberg did have a track record of accomplishment as a head coach at Iowa State and had other indicia of superior experience (NBA player, coach, and executive) AND WAS PAID ACCORDINGLY. Tubby was a pretty decent coach here but people still grumbled regularly because they felt a man with such a record of accomplishment at multiple locations should be better and he was paid commensurate to a coach who should be better.

"especially with a traditionally downtrodden program."

Prior to this one, we had four straight losing seasons and losing seasons in 6 of the last 8. I'd say that qualifies us as a downtrodden program unless one hangs on to the past and refuses to recognize the reality of recent history like some formerly aristocratic family that is now impoverished.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
I wouldn't say nowhere else or even nowhere else in the Big Ten. Hoiberg had 7 wins in each of his first two seasons at Nebraska. For his third season, they finished 10-22. They finished 16-16 in his 4th year. He got a 5th year and finally delivered with a fine season.

Pat Chambers didn't have a winning season until his 4th year at Penn State and that was only 18-16 (they won two games in the Big Ten tournament). Steve Pikiell's first three seasons at Rutgers were losing.

Stop feeling like such a victim because you're a Gopher fan. We're not alone in college basketball fan frustration and you're not trapped in a situation where you have no control. This is a matter of personal choice.
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I remember a time not that long ago where Minnesota was considered a significantly better basketball program than Nebraska and Penn St and losing at the level of those programs wasn't acceptable.

Penn St also significantly upgraded as soon as Chambers was gone.
 

howeda7 said:
Often but with Mark Coyle who knows.
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Not in this case. Ben is following the Lindsay Whalen track of losing the confidence of his players. We've seen this show before and know that Coyle starts with expressing confidence in the coach, but the player response afterward makes all the difference.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
Boy, you don't abandon your dreams easily! He's not going to be fired despite how dismal the team looked in these last two games. He's already done enough to get a 4th year.
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He's already on the Lindsay Whalen track of former players as coaches. He is too stubborn to change and the players show active resistance to any coaching input.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
1) I remember a time not that long ago where Minnesota was considered a significantly better basketball program than Nebraska and Penn St and losing at the level of those programs wasn't acceptable.

2) Penn St also significantly upgraded as soon as Chambers was gone.
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1) So what? That was then, this is now.

2) The first successor's accomplishments were a big surprise and it was only one year of surprising success out of the two he was there. His team was loaded with 5th year players during his good season. That 5th year appears to make a big difference in player productivity. His success last season isn't translating to Notre Dame this year.

I will give PSU props for hiring an accomplished coach as the second successor to Chambers and he did have a track record that allowed him to bring two good players with him and recruit other good players from the portal. PSU also paid him commensurate with his veteran coach status. Maybe Minnesota will do something similar in the future but they passed on that option with the two most recent hires. Even so, Rhoades' team lost to "Disaster" Ben Johnson's team twice this season.
 

Ewert86PC said:
He's already on the Lindsay Whalen track of former players as coaches. He is too stubborn to change and the players show active resistance to any coaching input.
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Maybe so but that doesn't mean he won't be allowed to continue next season. Maybe someday you'll understand that what you want and what the actual decision makers want are not the same thing and you'll refrain from talking like you are an actual decision maker.
 

I say let it play out into next year. Ben will be here. Let’s see what players stay, who he gets from the portal, what sort of impact Asuma makes and another year of maturity for those who stay.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
Guys, we need to remember…this is a preseason top 25 team next year (if all these guys come back)!
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I have enough trouble reemmbering the past. And now you're asking me to "remember" something in the future, or some hoped-for conditional prediction about the future? Oy!
 





howeda7 said:
Last year you said losing the leading scorer was addition by subtraction. Now you're saying it again. Perhaps the coach is really bad at this?
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I am not saying that with Dawson- I just pointed out the anomaly and said I wasn't sure how I felt about him staying or going. With Battle I was sure and I was right. We got better without him and he didn't help OSU win. There is more to the game than offensive stats. This year Battle had them but he still is bad on defense. Last year he was bad on both ends.

Is Ben bad at this? I don't know but I do think he has a lot to learn about getting the most out of guys on both ends.
 



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