Greder: .100 BT winning percentage currently sits as the second-worst winning percentage in program history.

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MennoSota said:
Yours is a narrative of fantasy. It's what you want to have happened or been the reason.
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You of course missed the point of the reply. All the players had not already left before Ben's arrival.
Ben is on audio/video saying he didn't try to talk anybody into staying....he only wanted guys who wanted to be here. But he didn't try to recruit them...he left it up to them.
He had a five year contract...he wanted to start over. He's also said his plan could take 4 or 5 years to build it.
The only thing open to fantasy is that the incumbent players were expecting a different coach to be hired. When that didn't happen they left. Maybe they weren't wanted because he wanted to start over. Maybe they didn't feel recruited or wanted so they left. He had the opportunity to recruit them is my only point.
 

60's Guy said:
You of course missed the point of the reply. All the players had not already left before Ben's arrival.
Ben is on audio/video saying he didn't try to talk anybody into staying....he only wanted guys who wanted to be here. But he didn't try to recruit them...he left it up to them.
He had a five year contract...he wanted to start over. He's also said his plan could take 4 or 5 years to build it.
The only thing open to fantasy is that the incumbent players were expecting a different coach to be hired. When that didn't happen they left. Maybe they weren't wanted because he wanted to start over. Maybe they didn't feel recruited or wanted so they left. He had the opportunity to recruit them is my only point.
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Is there something wrong with giving the player the right to choose without pressure?
 





MennoSota said:
I like the show. I have no idea what purpose this clip has as a point you are trying to make.
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The previous poster was mentioning giving the previous roster CBJ inherited and attempted to talk into continuing as gophers as a pressure sell…similar to Dennis and his approach to getting ladies on his boat. They can’t say no, because the “implications”.
 

MennoSota said:
Is there something wrong with giving the player the right to choose without pressure?
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No, just don't say he inherited an empty roster...don't say the cupboard was bare.
Don't say Ben is a victim.
What do you read on this board that recruits say? "well, I hear the most from coach so and so."
"I really like coach x, we talk almost every day" Coach X saw me play every game this summer.
Kids wanna be courted.
 
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It reminds me of what Click and Clack have always said about cars: the most economical and environmentally friendly car you can find is the one you already own. I can't imagine taking over a program and not trying to convince the current players to stay.
 

60's Guy said:
No, just don't say he inherited an empty roster...don't say the cupboard was bare.
Don't say Ben is a victim.
What do you read on this board that recruits say? "well, I hear the most from coach so and so."
"I really like coach x, we talk almost every day" Coach X saw me play every game this summer.
Kids wanna be courted.
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Have I ever said Ben is a victim?
I have said that he started with one player on the team and his first team was filled with seniors from other schools. This season he has a bunch of young kids (flipped in age) as compared to last year. This is the 2nd year where he's had a nearly entire new roster, except for one player. These are facts, not excuses or claims that Ben is a victim.
Ben has two nice to very nice kids coming in next season. He has freshmen who will be sophomores next season. He will hopefully have Battle, Garcia, Ihnen, Fox, and Cooper coming back next year. He needs a solid point guard to come in this spring. These are facts, not victim claiming.
 



MennoSota said:
Have I ever said Ben is a victim?
I have said that he started with one player on the team and his first team was filled with seniors from other schools. This season he has a bunch of young kids (flipped in age) as compared to last year. This is the 2nd year where he's had a nearly entire new roster, except for one player. These are facts, not excuses or claims that Ben is a victim.
Ben has two nice to very nice kids coming in next season. He has freshmen who will be sophomores next season. He will hopefully have Battle, Garcia, Ihnen, Fox, and Cooper coming back next year. He needs a solid point guard to come in this spring. These are facts, not victim claiming.
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Battle, Garcia and Cooper have all been around plenty. We should not be this bad.
 

bga1 said:
Battle, Garcia and Cooper have all been around plenty. We should not be this bad.
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How long have they been here? Did Garcia play tonight?

Tonight's game was bad. That's a fact. As a player I would be embarrassed and take it personally when the other teams starters are all on the bench, laughing. That would be a memory I would keep as a chip to work hard to never let that happen again.
 

MennoSota said:
How long have they been here? Did Garcia play tonight?

Tonight's game was bad. That's a fact. As a player I would be embarrassed and take it personally when the other teams starters are all on the bench, laughing. That would be a memory I would keep as a chip to work hard to never let that happen again.
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It's happened several times this year, the chips must be getting really big.
 

Does Hosea Crittenden have a son about to enter college? He'd surely be the catalyst that gets things on track once more!
 



60's Guy said:
No, just don't say he inherited an empty roster...don't say the cupboard was bare.
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Ben missed on Brandon Johnson, and Both Gach. He kept Ihnen and eventually Curry.

Carr and Gabe (Gabe at least reconsidered with Thorson and Ben) was out no matter who was coaching. Robbins was going where his uncle went and Mashburn was following Pitino.

That leaves Freeman, Tre Williams, and Martice Mitchell whom he didn’t talk to. None of these would’ve helped.

The recruits were Thompson and Pohto. We kept Thompson and Pohto was not talked too.

It’s not unreasonable to say the cupboard was bare. Ben luckily had the benefit of the free transfer waiver year to at least put a team together. There are areas to be critical of Ben and he could’ve put together a better roster either way.

60's Guy said:
Don't say Ben is a victim.
What do you read on this board that recruits say? "well, I hear the most from coach so and so."
"I really like coach x, we talk almost every day" Coach X saw me play every game this summer.
Kids wanna be courted.
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Ben and staff court kids well. They identify early and get them here because of relationships (Have to cause our results suck right now).
 
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MennoSota said:
Is there something wrong with giving the player the right to choose without pressure?
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Yes, it's called "not recruiting". You don't breath down their necks and follow them to class, but you recruit them still.
 

60's Guy said:
No, just don't say he inherited an empty roster...don't say the cupboard was bare.
Don't say Ben is a victim.
What do you read on this board that recruits say? "well, I hear the most from coach so and so."
"I really like coach x, we talk almost every day" Coach X saw me play every game this summer.
Kids wanna be courted.
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The best players off Pitino's 6-14 BT team were leaving regardless. The cupboard was absolutely bare.
 

Gopherfan84 said:
Ben missed on Brandon Johnson, and Both Gach. He kept Ihnen and eventually Curry.

Carr and Gabe (Gabe at least reconsidered with Thorson and Ben) was out no matter who was coaching. Robbins was going where his uncle went and Mashburn was following Pitino.

That leaves Freeman, Tre Williams, and Martice Mitchell whom he didn’t talk to. None of these would’ve helped.

The recruits were Thompson and Pohto. We kept Thompson and Pohto was not talked too.

It’s not unreasonable to say the cupboard was bare. Ben luckily had the benefit of the free transfer waiver year to at least put a team together. There are areas to be critical of Ben and he could’ve put together a better roster either way.


Ben and stay court kids well. They identify early and get them here because of relationships (Have to cause our results suck right now).
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Bingo. Maybe Johnson gets a couple more to stick around....but nobody who was anything more than a role player....and no young players with high ceilings. It was a ground up rebuild which starts with freshman.
 

60's Guy said:
No, just don't say he inherited an empty roster...don't say the cupboard was bare.
Don't say Ben is a victim.
What do you read on this board that recruits say? "well, I hear the most from coach so and so."
"I really like coach x, we talk almost every day" Coach X saw me play every game this summer.
Kids wanna be courted.
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Don't say you & most on here aren't petulant children.

You expect immediate winning. Recruiting doesn't matter, circumstances don't matter...it's win immediately or you're a bum.

You guys CAN'T HANDLE watching the games. You CAN'T HANDLE a rebuild effort. You need to bitch & moan constantly, non-stop 24/7.
 


EasyThere Pilgrim said:
Don't say you & most on here aren't petulant children.

You expect immediate winning. Recruiting doesn't matter, circumstances don't matter...it's win immediately or you're a bum.

You guys CAN'T HANDLE watching the games. You CAN'T HANDLE a rebuild effort. You need to bitch & moan constantly, non-stop 24/7.
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But they want the team to win and the players to play well. Something you said you dont want. So maybe its because they are fans and you aren't?
 

Gopherfan84 said:
Ben missed on Brandon Johnson, and Both Gach. He kept Ihnen and eventually Curry.

Carr and Gabe (Gabe at least reconsidered with Thorson and Ben) was out no matter who was coaching. Robbins was going where his uncle went and Mashburn was following Pitino.

That leaves Freeman, Tre Williams, and Martice Mitchell whom he didn’t talk to. None of these would’ve helped.

The recruits were Thompson and Pohto. We kept Thompson and Pohto was not talked too.

It’s not unreasonable to say the cupboard was bare. Ben luckily had the benefit of the free transfer waiver year to at least put a team together. There are areas to be critical of Ben and he could’ve put together a better roster either way.


Ben and staff court kids well. They identify early and get them here because of relationships (Have to cause our results suck right now).
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The problem is his work in the transfer portal was much, much worse in year 2. We went from Peyton Willis/Loewe/Stephens all decent to good to Cooper (good recruit who hasn't played very well)/Samuels (was always a huge reach)/eh I won't bother to fill the other two scholarships. He made his bed on that and he's lying in it now.
 

leib0039 said:
It's happened several times this year, the chips must be getting really big.
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I hope so. I hope that every loss gives these kids the resolve to work harder in practice and reach their maximum potential.
 

GopherTheJugular said:
Yes, it's called "not recruiting". You don't breath down their necks and follow them to class, but you recruit them still.
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You have no, exact idea, what Ben Johnson did. You are interpreting his quote and extrapolating that he didn't care. I look at it and say that Ben Johnson respected each person as a grown man who makes his own choices.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
You expect immediate winning. Recruiting doesn't matter, circumstances don't matter...it's win immediately or you're a bum.
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No one here was demanding a B1G title or even an NCAA bid this year. An NIT bid would have thrilled most. This isn't just not winning, it's historically bad, embarrassing levels of losing. If we were 11-10 right now with 4 B1G wins, it would be a lot easier to buy that next year might be better. As it is, we can improve significantly and still be 5-13 next year. Then what?
 


Hope we can turn into Rutgers in 1-2 years. Bottom 4 his first 3 years going 13-43 (.232) Looking at 4 straight top 6 finishes and NCAA tournaments. 40-31(.563)
 

howeda7 said:
The problem is his work in the transfer portal was much, much worse in year 2. We went from Peyton Willis/Loewe/Stephens all decent to good to Cooper (good recruit who hasn't played very well)/Samuels (was always a huge reach)/eh I won't bother to fill the other two scholarships. He made his bed on that and he's lying in it now.
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I don’t think the plan is to get 3 portal guards every year. Ben wanted to get some young players and develop that way. You’re 100% right it’s his bed he made. I still think in an average year, Garcia, Cooper, and Samuels are a fine haul in the portal. We will never be in the running for the Terrance Shannon’s of the world until we start paying for them. The problem is that Cooper is relied on as the 3rd scorer (2nd with Garcia out) and Samuels has to start. If Samuels was playing 8-10 minutes off the bench he’s fine. If Cooper is our 4th or 5th starter, we are probably fine too.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Hope we can turn into Rutgers in 1-2 years. Bottom 4 his first 3 years going 13-43 (.232) Looking at 4 straight top 6 finishes and NCAA tournaments. 40-31(.563)
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We don’t play defense like Rutgers did in those bad years, plus they showed a ton of progress in year 2 on that side of the ball.

We’ve done nothing but regress in year 2, and we’re terrible in every facet of the game. This is not comparable to Rutgers. It’s not comparable to any coach that went on to have success.
 

MennoSota said:
I hope so. I hope that every loss gives these kids the resolve to work harder in practice and reach their maximum potential.
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I would hope so. Last night was an awful effort.
 


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