Colley Matrix

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noamfromm

noamfromm

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One of the national title determiners is the Colley Matrix with (in)famously gave it to UCF in 2017. As it current stands due to Michigan's putrid non-conference Georgia could lose the national title game to Michigan and still be considered the champion via the Colley Matrix.

I added three games into the current week's rankings:

Michigan beat TCU
Georgia beats OSU
Michigan beats Georgia
 

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I get to touch some analytics and such at work now and then.

It's fun, it's very interesting.

But I always want to preface it with:

"This is fun to look at but if the results here smell like bullshit ... they might actually be and we should think critically about what we're seeing before buying into it."
 

As soon as a true #1 vs #2 actual game started being played after the 1998 season ..... there was never any reason to ever allow anyone's poll results to be recognized as a national champion.

No, you won the natty game, or you didn't.
 

Gophers_4life said:
As soon as a true #1 vs #2 actual game started being played after the 1998 season ..... there was never any reason to ever allow anyone's poll results to be recognized as a national champion.

No, you won the natty game, or you didn't.
Click to expand...
We got to this system because the above wasn't true. 2004 Auburn went undefeated and wasn't allowed to play for the title.

Edit: same with UCF -- if a team goes undefeated and can't play for the title are we even in the same sport?
 
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noamfromm said:
We got to this system because the above wasn't true. 2004 Auburn went undefeated and wasn't allowed to play for the title.
Click to expand...
That doesn't prove that someone's poll that they concocted should get to choose a national champion and then get to have that selection be given even an iota of legitimacy.

We had a title game in 2004. The winner is the national champion.
 


Gophers_4life said:
That doesn't prove that someone's poll that they concocted should get to choose a national champion and then get to have that selection be given even an iota of legitimacy.

We had a title game in 2004. The winner is the national champion.
Click to expand...
That is the national champion as decided by the BCS -- there is room to disagree with it because two undefeated teams existed at the end of the season.
 

noamfromm said:
That is the national champion as decided by the BCS -- there is room to disagree with it because two undefeated teams existed at the end of the season.
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OK, fine, for back then.

There can be no possible room in the present day to give any legitimacy to some poll.
 

Gophers_4life said:
OK, fine, for back then.

There can be no possible room in the present day to give any legitimacy to some poll.
Click to expand...
If there are 5 undefeated teams, yes there would be. If a team goes undefeated and can't win a national title there is room for debate.
 

Gophers_4life said:
As soon as a true #1 vs #2 actual game started being played after the 1998 season ..... there was never any reason to ever allow anyone's poll results to be recognized as a national champion.

No, you won the natty game, or you didn't.
Click to expand...

I think the undefeated 1997 Michigan team had a very good argument for an AP Natty. Two teams in the BCS wasn't enough that year.

Edit: I take that back. I thought the first BCS was played January of 1998.
 



Panthadad2 said:
I think the undefeated 1997 Michigan team had a very good argument for an AP Natty. Two teams in the BCS wasn't enough that year.
Click to expand...
BCS championship game first happened the following season
 



noamfromm said:
One of the national title determiners is the Colley Matrix with (in)famously gave it to UCF in 2017. As it current stands due to Michigan's putrid non-conference Georgia could lose the national title game to Michigan and still be considered the champion via the Colley Matrix.

I added three games into the current week's rankings:

Michigan beat TCU
Georgia beats OSU
Michigan beats Michigan
Click to expand...
Love it
 



I continued looking at the colley matrix and there is no scenario I could find where Georgia doesn't win their version of the national title. If they lose to ohio state, tcu, or michigan they always remain first in the rankings.
 

I have never heard this term before.

I clicked on the link hoping it might be some guy the Gophers were going after in the portal.

(hey, with some of today's 'interesting' names, it's plausible)
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I have never heard this term before.

I clicked on the link hoping it might be some guy the Gophers were going after in the portal.

(hey, with some of today's 'interesting' names, it's plausible)
Click to expand...
That would be a great name
 


noamfromm said:
If there are 5 undefeated teams, yes there would be. If a team goes undefeated and can't win a national title there is room for debate.
Click to expand...
No, there is not. Tell me which season in the past, any season, where you think the #5 team was on-par with #1. TCU got darn lucky they didn't get bumped to #4 because Georgia would kill them. Probably shut them out.

Now instead of just repeating what you just said, please answer my question. What season can you find where, heading into the bowl season, #5 was about even with #1. I've never seen it.
 

GopherTheJugular said:
No, there is not. Tell me which season in the past, any season, where you think the #5 team was on-par with #1. TCU got darn lucky they didn't get bumped to #4 because Georgia would kill them. Probably shut them out.

Now instead of just repeating what you just said, please answer my question. What season can you find where, heading into the bowl season, #5 was about even with #1. I've never seen it.
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If there are 5 undefeated teams and the one left out won it's bowl game it would end the season undefeated and it would leave room debate. You turned this into a discussion about when a fifth ranked team was about even with the top ranked team.

In 2004 USC smoked Oklahoma in the BCS Championship game. They probably would have smoked Auburn and Utah as well, but because both teams ended undefeated we can debate whether or they could have upset USC when they played. Auburn or Utah could have beaten USC in an upset regardless if they were "even" or not.
 


noamfromm said:
One of the national title determiners is the Colley Matrix with (in)famously gave it to UCF in 2017. As it current stands due to Michigan's putrid non-conference Georgia could lose the national title game to Michigan and still be considered the champion via the Colley Matrix.

I added three games into the current week's rankings:

Michigan beat TCU
Georgia beats OSU
Michigan beats Michigan
Click to expand...
You lost me there.
 



noamfromm said:
If there are 5 undefeated teams, yes there would be. If a team goes undefeated and can't win a national title there is room for debate.
Click to expand...
Have there ever been 5 undefeated teams?

Cinci actually got in the playoff last year.

In 2017 UCF was undefeated but they got an accurate ranking around #12 and did not deserve a playoff spot.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Have there ever been 5 undefeated teams?

Cinci actually got in the playoff last year.

In 2017 UCF was undefeated but they got an accurate ranking around #12 and did not deserve a playoff spot.
Click to expand...
Again, it was a hypothetical 🙄
 

Not a valid one if it has never happened since 2014.

The playoff is expanding to 12 teams in 2024. There won't be 5 undefeated teams next year, either. And beyond that there certainly won't be 13 undefeated teams.
 

I like all the algorithms and clever ways people use to analyze and rank teams. Have at it!

But they absolutely do not get to have a single shred of validity or legitimacy if they choose a "national champion" that is different than the winner of the actual national title game.

Nope.
 


Gophers_4life said:
I like all the algorithms and clever ways people use to analyze and rank teams. Have at it!

But they absolutely do not get to have a single shred of validity or legitimacy if they choose a "national champion" that is different than the winner of the actual national title game.

Nope.
Click to expand...
They literally are recognized by the ncaa
So you should write them a a letter
 

The NCAA has nothing to do with major college football. There has never been an NCAA trophy awarded for national champion in football at the top level.

Although the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) has never bestowed national championships in college football at the topmost level, it does maintain an official records book for the sport. The records book, with consultation from various college football historians, contains a list of "major selectors" of national championships from throughout the history of college football, along with their championship selections
 

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