Hot take: We're just fine, PJ is doing fine.

"It’s a little tricky to get big recruits into Minnesota compared to communities that are totally geared towards college athletics and aren’t usually as big of a metro area."
Fleck is never going to recruit big-name players who are just going to college to play football. Those types of recruits would never fit in with PJ's "Row The Boat" philosophy, and he knows it. We will never see those types of players (with Fleck here...) and I'm A-OK with that.

He brings in respectable young men... and if it turns out that they're not, they find elsewhere to play.
 

I think the question whether Gophs will win fewer games going forward if Athan starts the rest of the games. That, to me, would be the only upside to having Morgan start. Your thoughts?
He threw 40% in this first full game. It's not like he went out there and totally changed the offense. If anything, they substantially dumbed it down for him and they still couldn't execute.

I don't remember who it was that I was arguing with about arm strength but I was wrong. He has the stronger arm, but he is still not the better QB yet and you can't pull Tanner after he came back for this season. If the game is out of reach, or the team needs a spark, sure. But Tanner didn't do enough to lose the job and Athan certainly didn't do enough to win it.
 

He threw 40% in this first full game. It's not like he went out there and totally changed the offense. If anything, they substantially dumbed it down for him and they still couldn't execute.

I don't remember who it was that I was arguing with about arm strength but I was wrong. He has the stronger arm, but he is still not the better QB yet and you can't pull Tanner after he came back for this season. If the game is out of reach, or the team needs a spark, sure. But Tanner didn't do enough to lose the job and Athan certainly didn't do enough to win it.
Name any possible way the gophers score 17 in that game with Morgan.

That's with the receivers blanketed, and no pass protection.

I'm all ears.
 

Name any possible way the gophers score 17 in that game with Morgan.

That's with the receivers blanketed, and no pass protection.

I'm all ears.
Well, he routinely throws his receivers open so that might have helped. The difference when you can't get seperation is inches.

Also I'm not saying he should have been expected to do better. That wasn't a dig at Athan. I am saying that he clearly wasn't Joe Montana out there so we don't need to keep pretending that we've got the next 'generational talent' warming the bench.
 

Not trying to be argumentative - genuinely curious about your opinion...thanks in advance for assuming I'm coming with positive intent...

When it comes to recruiting, I often hear about how hard it is to recruit to Minnesota - the weather, the metro area, the lack of results for decades. It all makes sense. However, I also look at places like Iowa, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Michigan that have varying levels of shit weather and their own pros/cons to their campus.

Is Minnesota really at that big of a deficit due to being a metro campus and the cold? Do Iowa and Wisconsin (in particular) just benefit from having the last 2 decades of success? Are we doomed to never close the gap?
I think it's more that no one outside of the midwest knows much about the Gophers. Had we remained successful since the '60s then I think recruits would be coming here just like to Michigan and PSU and better than WI.

I think Fleck had some early success because he was new and you never know how far a new, young coach can take a program. Now the Batemans and other 4 *s know the ceiling and so they aint coming here.
 


And still has the 9th class in the conference? You must be underselling MN kids.

The others are going to Iowa State, Kansas, Washington, and LSU.

Yes he needs more kids to be more highly ranked, we all know that.

2023 Players ranked under .8600 in the West (4* or 5*) (Total in state)
Illinois 13 (1 in state 4*) (6)
Purdue 7 (1 in state 4*) (6)
MN 7 (1 in state 4*) (7)
NW 5 ( 3 out of state 4*) (4)
WI 3 (all 3 stars) (2)
NE 2 ( 1 in state and 2 out of state 4*) (6)
IA 2 (1 in state 5*) (7)
No idea what you're even trying to imply here. I'm not trying to be a smart a**, I just honestly don't know what you're getting at. But yes, I'm underselling MN kids. Most of the MN kids in the class won't see the field unless we are so bad that we're back struggling in the non-conf. Then they'll see the field because it will mean we have nobody better.
 

- Do you genuinely think Athan playing over Tanner this year would have added any wins to the schedule? I agree that he has a higher ceiling, and the argument can be made that it’s time to play him and accelerate his development, but I don’t understand those who still convinced that Tanner doesn’t deserve to have the job right now.

- “If you take out PJ’s *best recruit ever*, it’s a pretty even comparison”. Right, because that’s a completely logical way to make a comparison. Our available WRs are rough right now, sure, but I don’t know what point you’re trying to make with that statement.
Re: the first question, I don't know. But that's not what I was trying to talk about. I was just pointing out that there is no competition. Do you disagree, and do you honestly feel like AK8 is allowed to compete with Morgan? I certainly don't. To me, it was Morgan's job no matter what, except injury, which to me means "no competition".

Re: number two question, I'm trying to point out that he's only recruited one WR head and shoulders above what we normally get. You know, statistics have outliers and sometimes one can glean some more info by ignoring the outliers and focusing on the core. To me, it seems like you were just looking to take a shot at my post.
 

The thing I take issue with is when people (like the post I originally responded to) act like PJ is chained to Tanner and will start him at all costs, while Athan is some miracle-worker waiting in the wings. Nothing we’ve seen in games from Athan has shown that he has a greater claim to the starting job. Again, I do agree that starting him going forward would be beneficial for his development, and might be best for the future of the program.
I said the first part, but when the F did I ever say the bolded??????

Or do you just ASSUME that anyone criticizing Morgan also believes the bolded?

Yeesh. Nothing like a closed mind.
 

Greg Esslinger & Eric Decker chime in -

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Oh, whoops, you certainly got me there. An undersized center than could only play in Mason's zone blocking scheme and a good WR. Yep, in the past 20 years my criteria might have overlooked Decker. One player out of how man MN kids that didn't belong on a B1G field. But I doubt you'll take the time to look up the long list of losers. You just needed a quick-hitting, snarky comeback that took little effort.

Post of the century, congrats NYC!
 



Oh, whoops, you certainly got me there. An undersized center than could only play in Mason's zone blocking scheme and a good WR. Yep, in the past 20 years my criteria might have overlooked Decker. One player out of how man MN kids that didn't belong on a B1G field. But I doubt you'll take the time to look up the long list of losers. You just needed a quick-hitting, snarky comeback that took little effort.

Post of the century, congrats NYC!
Mark Setterstrom says hi, as does Matt Spaeth, both unheralded MN recruits and what about MB JR or Dom? Get the point????

My point is, judging MN HS recruits by their star ranking is Fools Good, especially when they haven't played a down, Seantrel! Lee Ashley!
 


No idea what you're even trying to imply here. I'm not trying to be a smart a**, I just honestly don't know what you're getting at. But yes, I'm underselling MN kids. Most of the MN kids in the class won't see the field unless we are so bad that we're back struggling in the non-conf. Then they'll see the field because it will mean we have nobody better.
I'm showing that his class is basically the same as all the other teams in the West.
 

-- Coyle will never fire Fleck. Never. Fleck is here as long as he wants to be - unless Coyle leaves first.

-- the one big advantage Athan has over Morgan is mobility. Athan can run for positive yardage. Consider MN's lack of talent at WR, a dual-threat QB becomes more important, because there are plenty of times when no WR's are open, and the QB may need to run to salvage the play. I would like to see the Gophers use that - maybe even put in some option-type wrinkles.
 



Fleck is never going to recruit big-name players who are just going to college to play football. Those types of recruits would never fit in with PJ's "Row The Boat" philosophy, and he knows it. We will never see those types of players (with Fleck here...) and I'm A-OK with that.

He brings in respectable young men... and if it turns out that they're not, they find elsewhere to play.
I couldn't care less if he brings in a busload of players from a prison and pays them with hookers and blow if they win titles.

I've long since stopped pretending that big time college football is anything but an entertainment business, that is just as sleazy as most other entertainment businesses. Just don't get caught.
 

He threw 40% in this first full game. It's not like he went out there and totally changed the offense. If anything, they substantially dumbed it down for him and they still couldn't execute.

I don't remember who it was that I was arguing with about arm strength but I was wrong. He has the stronger arm, but he is still not the better QB yet and you can't pull Tanner after he came back for this season. If the game is out of reach, or the team needs a spark, sure. But Tanner didn't do enough to lose the job and Athan certainly didn't do enough to win it.
Just to be clear, my posed question was do we think the Gophs will win fewer games going forward if Athan starts the rest of the season as opposed to Morgan starting.
 

Just to be clear, my posed question was do we think the Gophs will win fewer games going forward if Athan starts the rest of the season as opposed to Morgan starting.
And my answer is unequivocally yes. Pairing a freshman QB with a line that can't pass (or run) block and receivers that can't get seperatiom will lead to an ugly end to the season.
 

And my answer is unequivocally yes. Pairing a freshman QB with a line that can't pass (or run) block and receivers that can't get seperatiom will lead to an ugly end to the season.
And pairing a slower, less athletic QB with said line and receivers is somehow better?
 

I couldn't care less if he brings in a busload of players from a prison and pays them with hookers and blow if they win titles.

I've long since stopped pretending that big time college football is anything but an entertainment business, that is just as sleazy as most other entertainment businesses. Just don't get caught.
I couldn't agree with you more - and it is only going to get more cut throat with USC joining the conference. Watching the post game interviews of some Alabama games really made me question how these kids could possibly be passing classes - then the NC scandal hit and it all made sense. With more and online classes (which include rampant cheating as far as I am concerned), it is going to go from bad to worse. We are already able to pay players legally now. This is not college football of the leather helmet days - this is semi-pro ball now and the notion of the 'student athlete' is long gone.
 



You are basing this on...what?
Look, if y'all are gonna force me to say it. Athan currently has a 37.2 passer rating on a 42% completion percentage with 1 TD to 3 INTs. He was not just bad last week. He was awful. Not is fault, but that's the truth.

Tanner has not lived up to expectations this year and he's still completing 67% of his passes.

If athleticism mattered at QB then Eli, Payton, Brady, and Ben would not have rings.
 

I used to believe this, but I'm not so sure anymore. The U has good athletic facilities now (with the exception of the Barn - sorry). It's a pretty nice campus. And honestly, OSU is an urban campus. Columbus is the largest city in Ohio...
Then I'm taking a "glass half full" outlook. That means we CAN close the gap with IA and WI....I just need hope, baby!
 

No, it's a rationalization. A program like OSU has so much money and history that it would take a longer time horizon than a single coaching hire to erase that deficit. But we are not some uniquely disadvantaged program that cannot possibly compete at the same level as many of the other teams that have been mentioned on this thread. Certainly at least at Washington's level.
Thanks for your perspective! This is how I've typically felt, and why I've been (mostly) impressed with coach Fleck from the start. It's been a tough month though, for sure.
 

He had a few other awful patterns:
I will add lazy recruiting and not wanting to be in MN to the list you started.

It was time to try something new, problem is MACturi hired a tight ends coach from the NFL.
It started with the terrible timing of the firing. If they'd done it in November after the season, they'd likely have gotten Gary Patterson instead of being left with Brew and Dan Mullen as options (and then chooing the wrong one). They got lucky to get PJ after making the same mistake again.
 




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