All Things 2021 Minnesota Vikings In-Season Thread

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I changed my mind.

Play Mannion the last 2 games and lose out. With luck, they'll draft somewhere between 9-12.

That might be good enough to get Linderbaum from Iowa who might be the best Center prospect this century. He'd fix the interior OL immediately.
 

TruthSeeker said:
Russ is cooked. Past his prime. Trading anything more than a 3rd rounder is a waste.
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If I was GM of a team ready to win the whole thing, moving a 1st rounder for Russ I could buy into. That's not the Vikings. Defense just is not good enough.
 

Ope3 said:
If I was GM of a team ready to win the whole thing, moving a 1st rounder for Russ I could buy into. That's not the Vikings. Defense just is not good enough.
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Last year, the Bears were supposedly willing to give up 2-3 1st round picks for Russ. If he can now be had for a 1 first rounder, I do it. I don't know his cap math, but I assume it can be worked with to allow $ to shore up the defense. Also, guys like Barr will be shown the door freeing up additional $.

IMO, they either have to keep Cousins or acquire another veteran QB. It's obvious Mond isn't wowing anyone and this QB draft class isn't good.
 

howeda7 said:
Last year, the Bears were supposedly willing to give up 2-3 1st round picks for Russ. If he can now be had for a 1 first rounder, I do it. I don't know his cap math, but I assume it can be worked with to allow $ to shore up the defense. Also, guys like Barr will be shown the door freeing up additional $.

IMO, they either have to keep Cousins or acquire another veteran QB. It's obvious Mond isn't wowing anyone and this QB draft class isn't good.
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No way. It's a perfect year to bottom out.

Spielman mortgaged future salary cap to win now.

Take next season as a development year. Dump all the big contracts you can, don't sign anyone to a long-term deal to help fix the cap problem, draft to fix the O-line and D-line.

Under that scenario, they should be drafting top 3, possibly #1 in 2023. That's when they draft Bryce Young or whomever the QB of the future would be.

That person comes in with, presumably, a top 10 O-line, Irv Smith and JJ as good receving weapons, and a rookie WR drafted in Round 2 in 2023.

That's a team rebuilt to win. They're probably a bottom 10 team in 2023. But that's ok. They're improving and on their way. Draft in 2024 to fill some defensive holes, sign a couple top flight FAs in 2024, and now you're competing to win the NFC North if your QB panned out.
 

TruthSeeker said:
I changed my mind.

Play Mannion the last 2 games and lose out. With luck, they'll draft somewhere between 9-12.

That might be good enough to get Linderbaum from Iowa who might be the best Center prospect this century. He'd fix the interior OL immediately.
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Isn't Linderbaum sort of light in his weight. I don't want that again.

We have too many other big needs to go center first, in my opinion.
 


kg21 said:
Isn't Linderbaum sort of light in his weight. I don't want that again.

We have too many other big needs to go center first, in my opinion.
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For the positions that are worth taking in the Vikings' range, only a QB, WR, or DE would be worth it. There aren't any QBs in the the 2022 draft worth taking. There could be a DE or WR.

No other position is worth drafting that high if Linderbaum is available. Center is one of the most important positions.
 

TruthSeeker said:
For the positions that are worth taking in the Vikings' range, only a QB, WR, or DE would be worth it. There aren't any QBs in the the 2022 draft worth taking. There could be a DE or WR.

No other position is worth drafting that high if Linderbaum is available. Center is one of the most important positions.
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We have no defense. The secondary is a mess. Our linebackers are old and weak. And our defensive line gets blown out most every single game.

What do you mean only DE or WR would be worth it. We have huge holes all over this roster.
 

kg21 said:
We have no defense. The secondary is a mess. Our linebackers are old and weak. And our defensive line gets blown out most every single game.

What do you mean only DE or WR would be worth it. We have huge holes all over this roster.
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The value of positions in the draft has been determined by stat heads.

QB, LT, and DE/Edge are the three most important positions. WR, RT, and Center are very high on the list too.

CB and LB aren't deemed very important. LB is especially devalued due to the decline of running.

With high draft picks, drafting anything than those positions is a poor allocation of resources due to the importance of the positions and the scarcity of high end talent.

In case you didn't notice, those 6 positions all happen to be most directly responsible for creating or stopping a successful passing game.

Here's the list, which compares positional value against a QB.

Teams pay up for players that affect passing​

NFL positions by total number of non-rookie contracts, median contract value, share of the salary cap and share of quarterback value, 2014-21

POSITIONNUMBER OF CONTRACTSMEDIAN
CONTRACT VALUE		MEDIAN CAP SHARESHARE OF QB VALUE
Quarterback19$27.00m15.9%100%
Left tackle1614.748.050
Edge2110.755.736
Wide receiver3610.505.535
Right tackle98.004.327
Center145.542.818
Safety275.102.818
Tight end195.502.818
Kicker84.252.214
Interior lineman393.651.912
Right guard143.451.912
Cornerback302.881.610
Running back203.081.610
Punter112.671.59
Fullback22.451.28
Left guard92.121.28
Linebacker222.131.06
Long snapper121.110.64
The edge defenders and linebackers groups include scheme-specific positions.
 
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TruthSeeker said:
The value of positions in the draft has been determined by stat heads.

QB, LT, and DE/Edge are the three most important positions. WR and Center are very high on the list too.

CB and LB aren't deemed very important. LB is especially devalued due to the decline of running.

With high draft picks, drafting anything than those positions is a poor allocation of resources due to the importance of the positions and the scarcity of high end talent.

In case you didn't notice, the top 3 positions all happen to be most directly responsible for creating or stopping a successful passing game.
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5 cornerbacks taken in the first round last year, 3 linebackers taken in the first round last year

ZERO Centers taken

We cant cover anyone. Do you seriously think we should not take corner if one is there?

In 2020, 6 cb's taken in the first, 4 linebackers.......there actually was one center taken in the first

In the last two drafts, 11 cornerbacks taken in the first, 7 linebackers taken in the first, and one center

When you suck at corner, you may take one. When you suck at linebacker, you may take one. We suck balls at both.

Granted, we do suck at center also. Linderbaum is light. We just tried that with Bradbury. I will be pissed if its the center.
 
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kg21 said:
5 cornerbacks taken in the first round last year, 3 linebackers taken in the first round last year

ZERO Centers taken

We cant cover anyone. Do you seriously think we should not take corner if one if there?
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Linderbaum is supposed to be elite. You build your team by acquiring high-end talent. He is talented. You take him if he is there. IF he pans out, you have O’niell, Darrisaw, and Linderbaum on your line, with a need to fill 2 guard spots (easiest OL spots to fill). This OL has been garbage for too long. If there isn’t a viable QB when they pick, and he’s available you take him.
 

forever a gopher said:
Linderbaum is supposed to be elite. You build your team by acquiring high-end talent. He is talented. You take him if he is there. IF he pans out, you have O’niell, Darrisaw, and Linderbaum on your line, with a need to fill 2 guard spots (easiest OL spots to fill). This OL has been garbage for too long. If there isn’t a viable QB when they pick, and he’s available you take him.
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We have nothing on defense. We score quite well.

Linderbaum is listed at 290. That is lighter than Bradbury. I want no part of that.
 
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kg21 said:
5 cornerbacks taken in the first round last year, 3 linebackers taken in the first round last year

ZERO Centers taken

We cant cover anyone. Do you seriously think we should not take corner if one if there?

In 2020, 6 cb's taken in the first, 4 linebackers.......there actually was one center taken in the first

In the last two drafts, 11 cornerbacks taken in the first, 7 linebackers taken in the first, and one center

When you suck at corner, you may take one. When you suck at linebacker, you may take one. We suck balls at both.

Granted, we do suck at center also. Linderbaum is light. We just tried that with Bradbury. I will be pissed if its the center.
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That means teams are doing it wrong.

Who is surprised that a lot of GMs in the NFL don't understand math and advanced metrics?

I wouldn't draft a CB in Round 1, unless it was the very end of the draft. There are too many other positions in the NFL that are more important, especially with the high bust rate of CBs.
 




for all the talk of WHAT to do, the big question is WHO will be doing it.

the Wilfs have to make a quick decision on what to do with the GM. If they replace the GM, the new person is going to want to have input on hiring a HC. that will take time, and the Vikes could find themselves at the end of the coaching carousel. It would just like the Vikes to piss around on hiring a GM and HC, and wind up with all of the top candidates already having signed elsewhere.

then, assuming they have a new GM and HC, then those people are going to need to evaluate the roster and determine a strategy for the draft, free agency and/or trades, starting with what to do with Cousins. The QB decision will be the first domino, and will influence a lot of other decisions due to the salary cap implications.

I don't see anyway to pull off a quick revamp and still be in playoff contention. This team needs a pretty complete re-do. they would be better off cleaning house and going for a fresh start. Of course, that would mean telling the fans that the team will be taking a big step back for a few years.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
for all the talk of WHAT to do, the big question is WHO will be doing it.

the Wilfs have to make a quick decision on what to do with the GM. If they replace the GM, the new person is going to want to have input on hiring a HC. that will take time, and the Vikes could find themselves at the end of the coaching carousel. It would just like the Vikes to piss around on hiring a GM and HC, and wind up with all of the top candidates already having signed elsewhere.

then, assuming they have a new GM and HC, then those people are going to need to evaluate the roster and determine a strategy for the draft, free agency and/or trades, starting with what to do with Cousins. The QB decision will be the first domino, and will influence a lot of other decisions due to the salary cap implications.

I don't see anyway to pull off a quick revamp and still be in playoff contention. This team needs a pretty complete re-do. they would be better off cleaning house and going for a fresh start. Of course, that would mean telling the fans that the team will be taking a big step back for a few years.
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Maybe they can find a Ben Johnson type of hire.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
for all the talk of WHAT to do, the big question is WHO will be doing it.

the Wilfs have to make a quick decision on what to do with the GM. If they replace the GM, the new person is going to want to have input on hiring a HC. that will take time, and the Vikes could find themselves at the end of the coaching carousel. It would just like the Vikes to piss around on hiring a GM and HC, and wind up with all of the top candidates already having signed elsewhere.

then, assuming they have a new GM and HC, then those people are going to need to evaluate the roster and determine a strategy for the draft, free agency and/or trades, starting with what to do with Cousins. The QB decision will be the first domino, and will influence a lot of other decisions due to the salary cap implications.

I don't see anyway to pull off a quick revamp and still be in playoff contention. This team needs a pretty complete re-do. they would be better off cleaning house and going for a fresh start. Of course, that would mean telling the fans that the team will be taking a big step back for a few years.
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The salary cap hell they are in means complete rebuild
 


A huge percentage of the fan base wants Cousins gone. The obvious problem is the $40M 2022 cap hit. There doesn't appear to be an obvious solution. I don't see any way around Cousins being the starting QB in 2022.
 


jamiche said:
A huge percentage of the fan base wants Cousins gone. The obvious problem is the $40M 2022 cap hit. There doesn't appear to be an obvious solution. I don't see any way around Cousins being the starting QB in 2022.
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I suppose there's no chance in hell he could be cut without the rest of pay, for refusing to be vaccinated and then getting covid? Guessing NFLPA would be up in arms.
 

TruthSeeker said:
Trade and eat salary is an option.
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Cousins is owed $35mil base salary + $10mil signing bonus in 2022. Are there any teams willing to give up anything at all to have Cousins for one year at $45mil? I would find it surprising.
 


forever a gopher said:
Cousins is owed $35mil base salary + $10mil signing bonus in 2022. Are there any teams willing to give up anything at all to have Cousins for one year at $45mil? I would find it surprising.
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It would be 35 million to the team they trade him, too. The vikings would have to eat 10 million
 


TruthSeeker said:
I don't think you understood.
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What do you mean? As in you’re suggesting to trade him and take on part of his salary just to get rid of him? So you’re assuming they draft a QB this year and start him day 1? I’d trade Cousins for a box of rocks, but even then I don’t think you’ll have any takers.
 

forever a gopher said:
What do you mean? As in you’re suggesting to trade him and take on part of his salary just to get rid of him? So you’re assuming they draft a QB this year and start him day 1? I’d trade Cousins for a box of rocks, but even then I don’t think you’ll have any takers.
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There would be takers. New Orleans for example. There is such shit quarterbacking in this league.

Pittsburgh will need one. I bet Stefanski would take cousins over baker in a heartbeat. Denver will be in the market. I cant believe the giants want to continue with jones.

We will see.
 

kg21 said:
There would be takers. New Orleans for example. There is such shit quarterbacking in this league.
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I would love to be proven wrong. Just don’t see it happening. You would need to be a team that thinks it’s “close enough” where you just need a QB, and has a bunch of salary cap space. A crap team isn’t going to drop that kind of money if they’re just going to lose anyway. Maybe a Washington reunion is a good spot.

I see NO resigning Winston and either drafting QB this year or next.
 

forever a gopher said:
You would need to be a team that thinks it’s “close enough” where you just need a QB, and has a bunch of salary cap space.
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Like the Vikings after 2017. :unsure:

Granted, that was a FA signing, not a trade.


Cousins can win a Super Bowl, with a team built perfectly for a pocket passer that is really talented everywhere but especially in pass-protection.
 

Gophers_4life said:
Like the Vikings after 2017. :unsure:

Granted, that was a FA signing, not a trade.


Cousins can win a Super Bowl, with a team built perfectly for a pocket passer that is really talented everywhere but especially in pass-protection.
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A huge part of the reason Brady has had an outstanding career is that his offensive lines have consistently been Berlin Walls. Brady is incredibly accurate, but he's also a statue. Cousins is very accurate and very much a statue with bad hands. The Vikings haven't come close to providing him with adequate protection.

I'm not putting Cousins on the same level as Brady. Cousins is a very accurate passer when given time, who doesn't do anything else well.
 

There's also the possibility that Rodgers will want out of GB, but he might have a fairly specific set of teams he's willing to go to. Might want to get back out West.


But yeah, it has to be a trade for Cousins -- we'd only have $10M dead cap -- as opposed to just releasing him with $45M dead cap.
 

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