Will the next starting RB please step up?

[Bob_Loblaw]

I see your point, but if Bucko has 30 carries and Ky gets 5, it's an indication that our bell cow is having a great day running — which might indicate we're winning the game. You go with what's working for you. I know we worry about fatigue and giving one back "too many" carries, but I trust the staff's judgement as far as that goes. That being said, Fleck's recent comments seem to indicate they plan to spread the carries out more than they have to date.

I also believe that if Tanner Morgan has more than 25 throws in this game, it might be an indicator that we're playing from behind.

Our defense has been playing well. Let's hope that that trend continues.

I'm a PJ Fleck fan, but that's the one area that I do not trust our staff's judgement. I can't think of a RB we've had over the past few years who hasn't been hurt and our lead RBs always lead the nation in rushing attempts. I look at Trey Potts and it only makes me more skeptical about the staff. He was barely getting run while Mo was healthy and he is clearly a productive B1G RB. There was no reason for Mo to have as many carries as he was getting especially when your backup is as competent as Potts.

Potts also might be good this week after 30 carries. I don't think he can keep that up for 2-3 weeks and have the same juice.

As to your last point - - sure. If we don't change anything and only throw when we have to a lot of passes is a bad sign. I really hope the staff sees that is not the best path forward. I'm not asking for Morgan to throw 50 times per game, but a more balanced offense will be absolutely needed going forward.

 

[Some guy]

Offenses get "spoiled" by relying on a single back of Mo's caliber.

We all know what happens when you lose your RB for the season.

There's a lot of woulda, coulda. If they had cut down on the number of plays, Mo could still be playing. If they had cut the number of carries for Mo, the other backs can gain experience, etc...

There is absolutely zero way to say giving Mo 25% fewer Carries would’ve prevented his injury

That’s pure conjecture


I too think they should mix backs more. Especially early in the season. But it’s a big jump to say Mo would still be playing if he had 18 Carries per game instead of whatever he had.
He got injured the first game of the year

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

There is absolutely zero way to say giving Mo 25% fewer Carries would’ve prevented his injury

That’s pure conjecture

Why? The more miles on a car the more likely it is that weird things happen. I'm not blaming Fleck, but this is especially true the less fresh a player is.

I think a player playing 15 games of football is considerably more likely to tear their achilles than a player who plays 1 game.

Reps matter.

 

[Some guy]

Why? The more miles on a car the more likely it is that weird things happen. I'm not blaming Fleck, but this is especially true the less fresh a player is.

I think a player playing 15 games of football is considerably more likely to tear their achilles than a player who plays 1 game.

Reps matter.

He literally hurt it the first game after 8 months with zero reps

There is some truth to what you say in an indirect way. But it is literally not the situation here.


Unless you think mo getting 22 carries instead of 26 on Dec 19 would’ve caused him to not get injured on the following sept 2


you’re right though. If he wasn’t in on that play, he wouldn’t have gotten hurt. Which is true of every injury in the history of sports.



mo had a lot of carries last year. 201.
He had 202 in 2018. He had 517 entering 2021 for his career.

ron Dayne had 1220 college carries. 263 as a low for a single season.
In 3 seasons Jonathan Taylor had: 299, 307, 320
Ezekiel Elliot had 30, 273, 289
Barkley 182, 272, 217
Melvin Gordon 20, 62, 206, 343
Monte ball 98, 163, 307, 356

Of those 6 backs in 25 seasons. Mo’s workload was the 17th and 18th highest. And of the seasons below him, 4 of them the running back wasn’t the starter

 

[MNVCGUY]

I'm a PJ Fleck fan, but that's the one area that I do not trust our staff's judgement. I can't think of a RB we've had over the past few years who hasn't been hurt and our lead RBs always lead the nation in rushing attempts. I look at Trey Potts and it only makes me more skeptical about the staff. He was barely getting run while Mo was healthy and he is clearly a productive B1G RB. There was no reason for Mo to have as many carries as he was getting especially when your backup is as competent as Potts.

Potts also might be good this week after 30 carries. I don't think he can keep that up for 2-3 weeks and have the same juice.

As to your last point - - sure. If we don't change anything and only throw when we have to a lot of passes is a bad sign. I really hope the staff sees that is not the best path forward. I'm not asking for Morgan to throw 50 times per game, but a more balanced offense will be absolutely needed going forward.

The part in bold simply is not true.

2017 - Lead Back Rodney Smith - averaged 19 carries a game
2018 - Lead Back Mo Ibrahim - averaged 20.2 carries a game
2019 - Lead Back Rodney Smith - averaged 17.5 carries a game

2020 - Lead Back Mo Ibrahim - averaged 28.7 carries a game

2021 - TBD due to injuries. Yes, Mo got a lot of carries against Ohio State and Potts was averaging a high number (only had 17 against Purdue). But this idea that Fleck rides his RBs into the ground just isn't true. Mo Ibrahim was easily one of the best backs in the Nation last year and clearly could handle the work load so they put the ball in his hands. The injury Mo sustained against Ohio State could literally have happened on any play. As for Potts, we still don't know exactly what happened to him but it sure seems more like an a fluke injury than an overuse injury.

 

[Gopher Fitz]

Why? The more miles on a car the more likely it is that weird things happen. I'm not blaming Fleck, but this is especially true the less fresh a player is.

I think a player playing 15 games of football is considerably more likely to tear their achilles than a player who plays 1 game.

Reps matter.

To some guy's point, he literally got hurt on the first game of the year.
This wasn't even an injury of him taking a hard hit, just an unlucky injury that could've happened at anytime, you might have a case for him being over used and therefore that led to the injury week 9. But, come on

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

He literally hurt it the first game after 8 months with zero reps

So you think a player playing 15 games is JUST as likely to be hurt as someone playing 1 game? Like a 1 game NFL season would have just as many injuries as a 15 game season?

But as to Mo, yeah, he was injured on his 30th carry in the 4th quarter. He was on pace to get around 40 carries that game. He is also injured quite a bit. Anyone who has chronic injuries will tell you that they often lead to other seemingly unrelated injuries.

Could it have happened to a completely fresh player? Sure. It happens all the time. But it also happens considerably more often with someone after a ton of reps.

 

[Some guy]

So you think a player playing 15 games is JUST as likely to be hurt as someone playing 1 game? Like a 1 game NFL season would have just as many injuries as a 15 game season?

But as to Mo, yeah, he was injured on his 30th carry in the 4th quarter. He was on pace to get around 40 carries that game. He is also injured quite a bit. Anyone who has chronic injuries will tell you that they often lead to other seemingly unrelated injuries.

Could it have happened to a completely fresh player? Sure. It happens all the time. But it also happens considerably more often with someone after a ton of reps.

If you have X% chance of getting injured on a play…yes, increasing the number of plays increases the chance of injury.
If you think Mo Ibrahim ran some obnoxious amount of Carries, check the stats I added to my last posts about some former big ten running backs of the year


And yes, I agree with you I would like to see Fleck mix backs more. But to say if they would’ve given Mo 160 Carries instead of 201 in 2020 and he would’ve stayed healthy is just flat out making stuff up.

 

[Some guy]

In its own post:

mo had a lot of carries last year. 201.
He had 202 in 2018. He had 517 entering 2021 for his career.

ron Dayne had 1220 college carries. 263 as a low for a single season.
In 3 seasons Jonathan Taylor had: 299, 307, 320
Ezekiel Elliot had 30, 273, 289
S Barkley 182, 272, 217
Melvin Gordon 20, 62, 206, 343
Monte ball 98, 163, 307, 356

Of those 6 backs in 26 seasons. Mo’s workload was the 17th and 18th highest. And of the seasons below him, 4 of them the running back wasn’t the starter

 

[MNVCGUY]

So you think a player playing 15 games is JUST as likely to be hurt as someone playing 1 game? Like a 1 game NFL season would have just as many injuries as a 15 game season?

But as to Mo, yeah, he was injured on his 30th carry in the 4th quarter. He was on pace to get around 40 carries that game. He is also injured quite a bit. Anyone who has chronic injuries will tell you that they often lead to other seemingly unrelated injuries.

Could it have happened to a completely fresh player? Sure. It happens all the time. But it also happens considerably more often with someone after a ton of reps.

Mo was injured quite a bit? Huh?

2018 he played in 10 game, 2019 he played in 11, 2020 he played in all 7 games and as noted logged a ton of carries in every game. Where were all these injuries exactly?

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

The part in bold simply is not true.

2017 - Lead Back Rodney Smith - averaged 19 carries a game
2018 - Lead Back Mo Ibrahim - averaged 20.2 carries a game
2019 - Lead Back Rodney Smith - averaged 17.5 carries a game

2020 - Lead Back Mo Ibrahim - averaged 28.7 carries a game

2021 - TBD due to injuries. Yes, Mo got a lot of carries against Ohio State and Potts was averaging a high number (only had 17 against Purdue). But this idea that Fleck rides his RBs into the ground just isn't true. Mo Ibrahim was easily one of the best backs in the Nation last year and clearly could handle the work load so they put the ball in his hands. The injury Mo sustained against Ohio State could literally have happened on any play. As for Potts, we still don't know exactly what happened to him but it sure seems more like an a fluke injury than an overuse injury.

2017: Rodney Smith was getting considerably more than 19 carries per game when he was injured.
2018: Rodney Smith carried the ball 30 times and returned kicks before he was injured in the 2nd game, Mo takes over and is injured. Then Bryce Williams takes over and injury. Then Shannon Brooks comes back and re-injured.
2019: Again, Rodney Smith misses time (and portions of games due to injuries)
2020: Yep. Thanks. He led the nation in rushing attempts.
2021: Mo had 30 carries in the first 3 quarters - that rate would have absolutely shattered any record. The Potts took over and had consecutive games of 34, 26, 27 carries.

So yes, our running backs in every year PJ Fleck has been the coach, except 2020, have been injured and forced to miss games and portions of games, so that often brings their carries per game average down to "normal". That totally makes me change my mind that he doesn't overwork his RBs.

 

[MNVCGUY]

2017: Rodney Smith was getting considerably more than 19 carries per game when he was injured.
2018: Rodney Smith carried the ball 30 times and returned kicks before he was injured in the 2nd game, Mo takes over and is injured. Then Bryce Williams takes over and injury. Then Shannon Brooks comes back and re-injured.
2019: Again, Rodney Smith misses time (and portions of games due to injuries)
2020: Yep. Thanks. He led the nation in rushing attempts.
2021: Mo had 30 carries in the first 3 quarters - that rate would have absolutely shattered any record. The Potts took over and had consecutive games of 34, 26, 27 carries.

So yes, our running backs in every year PJ Fleck has been the coach, except 2020, have been injured and forced to miss games and portions of games, so that often brings their carries per game average down to "normal". That totally makes me change my mind that he doesn't overwork his RBs.

You specifically said Mo was injured quite a bit. Don't try to shift it to make it about all the RB injuries.

But as to that, RBs get injured all the time, this isn't a Minnesota thing. Rodney Smith had a well documented injury history and it wasn't due to overwork.

 

[gopherdudepart2]

Bryce Williams would do well to study the film and have the patience that Mo Ibrahim has.
Bryce is more than a capable back, his problem is he try's to force the issue and so far, or often runs into the hole before it develops and takes himself out of plays getting stuck in the wash.

Williams is plenty fast, he is very strong, what the young man needs to do is learn to watch the film, wait for that crease and see it a little bit before it happens, not balls out and trying to force the issue. To often he runs right into a tackle that if he waited a little bit for something to break he would make a bigger play. Study the film, see the holes, watch how the line is blocking and see it and know it before applying it.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

In its own post:

mo had a lot of carries last year. 201.
He had 202 in 2018. He had 517 entering 2021 for his career.

ron Dayne had 1220 college carries. 263 as a low for a single season.
In 3 seasons Jonathan Taylor had: 299, 307, 320
Ezekiel Elliot had 30, 273, 289
S Barkley 182, 272, 217
Melvin Gordon 20, 62, 206, 343
Monte ball 98, 163, 307, 356

Of those 6 backs in 26 seasons. Mo’s workload was the 17th and 18th highest. And of the seasons below him, 4 of them the running back wasn’t the starter

You also realize that Mo's numbers would considerably higher if he didn't play in the COVID year and didn't miss time to injuries, right? He also wasn't the starter in 2018. (You know the years Miguel Sano was injured, he really didn't strike out as often, whodathunk?)

So lets compare Mo's 2020 year (only year as a starter): 29.5 carries/game. He also had 30 carries in the third quarter of the game he was injured in 2021, but lets just focus on his 1 year as a starter where he stayed healthy.

Ron Dayne:
1996: 25 carries/game
1997: 23.9 carries/game
1998: 26.8 carries/game
1999: 28.1 carries/game

S. Barkley:
2016: 19.4 carries/game
2017: 16.7 carries/game

Ezekiel Elliot:
2014: 18.2 carries/game
2015: 22.2 carries per game

Melvin Gordon:
2013: 15.8 carries/game
2014: 24.5 carries/game

Monte Ball:
2011: 21.9 carries/game
2012: 25.4 carries/game


Mo Ibrahim was getting more carries per game than Ron Dayne, Ezekiel Elliot, Melvin Gordon, Monte Ball, or Barkley. For many of these guys (that you chose), he was getting almost 10 carries more per game.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

You specifically said Mo was injured quite a bit. Don't try to shift it to make it about all the RB injuries.

But as to that, RBs get injured all the time, this isn't a Minnesota thing. Rodney Smith had a well documented injury history and it wasn't due to overwork.

No one is trying to shift out of anything.

Yes, Mo is injured quite a bit.

He missed time in 2018, 2019, and almost the entire season of 2021. He is injured quite a bit. All of our RB's in the last 5 years have been injured quite a bit. I wasn't calling Mo fragile, quite the opposite, I think he's overworked.

As to other RBs being injured a lot, yeah, precisely. It's exactly why we should NEVER have a RB getting 29 carries per game (Mo in 2020).

*Edited to missing the entire 2021 season (not 2020).

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

If you have X% chance of getting injured on a play…yes, increasing the number of plays increases the chance of injury.
If you think Mo Ibrahim ran some obnoxious amount of Carries, check the stats I added to my last posts about some former big ten running backs of the year


And yes, I agree with you I would like to see Fleck mix backs more. But to say if they would’ve given Mo 160 Carries instead of 201 in 2020 and he would’ve stayed healthy is just flat out making stuff up.

I did. Mo had a considerably higher workload than all of them. Every. Single. One. Most of them, it wasn't even close.

When you're looking at workload, you need to look at (1) total carries; and (2) carries per game. You need to look at both of them, both of them lead to fatigue and injuries. This is common sense - working 80 hours per week isn't healthy for a person and neither is working 22 hours in one day.

 

[MNVCGUY]

2017: Rodney Smith was getting considerably more than 19 carries per game when he was injured.
2018: Rodney Smith carried the ball 30 times and returned kicks before he was injured in the 2nd game, Mo takes over and is injured. Then Bryce Williams takes over and injury. Then Shannon Brooks comes back and re-injured.
2019: Again, Rodney Smith misses time (and portions of games due to injuries)
2020: Yep. Thanks. He led the nation in rushing attempts.
2021: Mo had 30 carries in the first 3 quarters - that rate would have absolutely shattered any record. The Potts took over and had consecutive games of 34, 26, 27 carries.

So yes, our running backs in every year PJ Fleck has been the coach, except 2020, have been injured and forced to miss games and portions of games, so that often brings their carries per game average down to "normal". That totally makes me change my mind that he doesn't overwork his RBs.

Was going to let it go but then decided to look into your stats a little.....where are you pulling info from because according to sports-reference.com

Rodney Smith
2017 played in 12 games
1 time had 30 carries
0 times had between 25-29 carries
3 times had between 20-24 carries
8 times had between 10-19 carries

2018 played in 2 games - had 24 carries in game 1 and 1 carry in game 2

2019 played in 13 games
Carried the ball more than 25 times - 0
Carried the ball between 20-24 times - 4
Carried the ball less than 20 times - 9

So unless Sports-reference has bad info your numbers are way off.

Rodney Smith College Stats, School, Draft, Gamelog, Splits | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

Check out Rodney Smith's College Stats, School, Draft, Gamelog, Splits and More College Stats at Sports-Reference.com

www.sports-reference.com

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Was going to let it go but then decided to look into your stats a little.....where are you pulling info from because according to sports-reference.com

Rodney Smith
2017 played in 12 games
1 time had 30 carries
0 times had between 25-29 carries
3 times had between 20-24 carries
8 times had between 10-19 carries

2018 played in 2 games - had 24 carries in game 1 and 1 carry in game 2

2019 played in 13 games
Carried the ball more than 25 times - 0
Carried the ball between 20-24 times - 4
Carried the ball less than 20 times - 9

So unless Sports-reference has bad info your numbers are way off.

Rodney Smith College Stats, School, Draft, Gamelog, Splits | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

Check out Rodney Smith's College Stats, School, Draft, Gamelog, Splits and More College Stats at Sports-Reference.com

www.sports-reference.com

Which number is off? I didn't really give any. Which specific numbers are you referring to?

I simply said that his numbers in 2017 and 2018 were way off because he was injured. He was injured in both of those seasons. In 2019, I might be off. He might not have been injured. I do think 2019 was by far our best usage of our RBs, so that could certainly be.

I still don't see how this is a counter to my point. In every season but 2019, we have had pretty catastrophic injuries to our RB room.

If you think Fleck's done a nice job handling the workload of our RBs (specifically in the last two years), then you and I disagree. It's okay. I am a fan of Fleck, but I hate the way he handles our RBs. I can't imagine someone pointing to all the other seasons where the RB room was decimated by injuries is going to change my mind on that.

 

[Some guy]

You also realize that Mo's numbers would considerably higher if he didn't play in the COVID year and didn't miss time to injuries, right? He also wasn't the starter in 2018. (You know the years Miguel Sano was injured, he really didn't strike out as often, whodathunk?)

So lets compare Mo's 2020 year (only year as a starter): 29.5 carries/game. He also had 30 carries in the third quarter of the game he was injured in 2021, but lets just focus on his 1 year as a starter where he stayed healthy.

Ron Dayne:
1996: 25 carries/game
1997: 23.9 carries/game
1998: 26.8 carries/game
1999: 28.1 carries/game

S. Barkley:
2016: 19.4 carries/game
2017: 16.7 carries/game

Ezekiel Elliot:
2014: 18.2 carries/game
2015: 22.2 carries per game

Melvin Gordon:
2013: 15.8 carries/game
2014: 24.5 carries/game

Monte Ball:
2011: 21.9 carries/game
2012: 25.4 carries/game


Mo Ibrahim was getting more carries per game than Ron Dayne, Ezekiel Elliot, Melvin Gordon, Monte Ball, or Barkley. For many of these guys (that you chose), he was getting almost 10 carries more per game.

Woah, you just moved the goalposts.
You said it was Carries. Now you say it’s Carries per game.
So is it better for a running back to play 40 games at 10 Carries per game than to play one game with 40 Carries?

 

[Some guy]

I did. Mo had a considerably higher workload than all of them. Every. Single. One. Most of them, it wasn't even close.

When you're looking at workload, you need to look at (1) total carries; and (2) carries per game. You need to look at both of them, both of them lead to fatigue and injuries. This is common sense - working 80 hours per week isn't healthy for a person and neither is working 22 hours in one day.

I don’t disagree with you. But you can’t pretend that 30 Carries against Ohio state is an uncommon thing in college football.
nor can you pretend that 202 Carries in 2020 is an uncommon thing.


are you saying Ibrahim got injured 8 months after the fact because he has a high Carries per game 8 months ago?



The funny part is, I don’t even disagree with you. I think the team overworks their running backs. But the point you are arguing with is when I say, factually, there is no way of knowing if giving him fewer Carries last year or against Ohio state would’ve prevented this injury from happening.


PS: if you think Mo had a higher workload than Ron Dayne you are an idiot.
“Mo had one and a half more Carries per game than Ron Dayne so that’s harder even though Dayne did it for 12 games and Mo did it for 7”
lol
You think Mo taking 14 fewer Carries last year was the difference between him and Ron Dayne?

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Woah, you just moved the goalposts.
You said it was Carries. Now you say it’s Carries per game.
So is it better for a running back to play 40 games at 10 Carries per game than to play one game with 40 Carries?

Jesus christ. You really think workload isn't an analysis of those two factors? Are you pretending to not understand this point? Honestly, if I have to walk you through this, I don't know if this conversation is really worth having. If it doesn't raise your f'n eyebrows that Mo had more carries per game in 2020 than any of Ron Dayne's seasons, I don't know what will.

So I guess we'll hash out this incredibly simple concept that I hope you're just pretending to not understand.

• Working 22 hours in 1 day, isn't a balanced workload.
• Working 80 hours in 1 week, isn't a balanced workload.
• Working 45 days straight, without a day off, isn't a balanced workload.

We completely understand this in every other determination of workload. How many hours normal people work. How often you work out. Etc. It's super simple. So I hope we can move on from this.

As to your question - the 40 carries in one game is worse. It's an analysis of both - carries per game and total carries. I think this is kind of common sense.

 

[Some guy]

Jesus christ. You really think workload isn't an analysis of those two factors? Are you pretending to not understand this point? Honestly, if I have to walk you through this, I don't know if this conversation is really worth having. If it doesn't raise your f'n eyebrows that Mo had more carries per game in 2020 than any of Ron Dayne's seasons, I don't know what will.

So I guess we'll hash out this incredibly simple concept that I hope you're just pretending to not understand.

• Working 22 hours in 1 day, isn't a balanced workload.
• Working 80 hours in 1 week, isn't a balanced workload.
• Working 45 days straight, without a day off, isn't a balanced workload.

We completely understand this in every other determination of workload. How many hours normal people work. How often you work out. Etc. It's super simple. So I hope we can move on from this.

As to your question - the 40 carries in one game is worse. It's an analysis of both - carries per game and total carries. I think this is kind of common sense.

A 1.5 carry per game difference in a 7 game season is 10-11 Carries. I guess if he had 12 fewer Carries last year he would be healthy and you’d think Ron Dayne was way overworked.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I don’t disagree with you. But you can’t pretend that 30 Carries against Ohio state is an uncommon thing in college football.
nor can you pretend that 202 Carries in 2020 is an uncommon thing.


are you saying Ibrahim got injured 8 months after the fact because he has a high Carries per game 8 months ago?



The funny part is, I don’t even disagree with you. I think the team overworks their running backs. But the point you are arguing with is when I say, factually, there is no way of knowing if giving him fewer Carries last year or against Ohio state would’ve prevented this injury from happening.


PS: if you think Mo had a higher workload than Ron Dayne you are an idiot.
“Mo had one and a half more Carries per game than Ron Dayne so that’s harder even though Dayne did it for 12 games and Mo did it for 7”
lol
You think Mo taking 14 fewer Carries last year was the difference between him and Ron Dayne?

202 carries in 7 games is extremely uncommon. It's more carries per game than anyone in the country. It was extremely uncommon.

30 carries against Ohio State - - again - - extremely uncommon.

• No one in the last 3 seasons has had more than 22 carries in a game against Ohio State. Mo had 30, in three quarters.
• The average leading rush attempts in 2021 (12.4); in 2020 (12.75); and in 2019 (14.1). The 2019 total is a bit higher because they played WI (with workhorse J. Taylor) twice. He had 20 carries in both games.

So both of those are extremely uncommon.

As to my point being idiotic about Mo having a higher workload, well, he did. He carried the ball more per game. If it was a full season, you're right, Dayne would likely have had more carries. However, that's because Mo would have continued to be overused until he got hurt. I'm not sure if that necessarily helps your case.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

A 1.5 carry per game difference in a 7 game season is 10-11 Carries. I guess if he had 12 fewer Carries last year he would be healthy and you’d think Ron Dayne was way overworked.

That was 1996 and Ron Dayne did have about 75 lbs on Mo, but you brought these people up.

Yes, Mo had more carries per game than Ron F'n Dayne. I also agree that Mo wouldn't have gotten as many carries as Dayne had the season continued but that's because he could have gotten hurt. If you think running players until they got hurt to spread reps around is good workload management, I guess we just have a difference of opinion.

 

[Some guy]

202 carries in 7 games is extremely uncommon. It's more carries per game than anyone in the country. It was extremely uncommon.

30 carries against Ohio State - - again - - extremely uncommon.

• No one in the last 3 seasons has had more than 22 carries in a game against Ohio State. Mo had 30, in three quarters.
• The average leading rush attempts in 2021 (12.4); in 2020 (12.75); and in 2019 (14.1). The 2019 total is a bit higher because they played WI (with workhorse J. Taylor) twice. He had 20 carries in both games.

So both of those are extremely uncommon.

As to my point being idiotic about Mo having a higher workload, well, he did. He carried the ball more per game. If it was a full season, you're right, Dayne would likely have had more carries. However, that's because Mo would have continued to be overused until he got hurt. I'm not sure if that necessarily helps your case.

You’re right. Mo’s injury is directly related to 30 Carries and 202 Carries in 7 games. No player who had that many Carries has ever stayed healthy, no player has ever gotten injured with few Carries. Few running backs run for 30 against Ohio state because they’ll definitely get hurt, not because Ohio state is usually winning which prevents



Literally the only thing I’m arguing in this thread is there is no proof that his injury was due to too many Carries. So I’m not going to argue anymore. I’ll wait for you to post proof (there is none) that this was due to his 2020 workload and having 30 carries against Ohio state.

 

[Some guy]

That was 1996 and Ron Dayne did have about 75 lbs on Mo, but you brought these people up.

Yes, Mo had more carries per game than Ron F'n Dayne. I also agree that Mo wouldn't have gotten as many carries as Dayne had the season continued but that's because he could have gotten hurt. If you think running players until they got hurt to spread reps around is good workload management, I guess we just have a difference of opinion.

I’ve already agreed with you on that point. I’ve said multiple times in this thread they don’t spread it around enough.

I’ve also said his injury wasn’t from taking 26 Carries against wisconsin last year instead of 14

 

[Wally]

So is it better for a running back to play 40 games at 10 Carries per game than to play one game with 40 Carries?

In terms of injury risk, yes I think it definitely is, without a doubt. I am assuming you meant 4 games with 10 carries each.

 

[Wally]

In possibly the most comprehensive injury incidence study in male
professional soccer players Ekstrand et al. (2011) reported data for 7 con-
secutive seasons from the first team squads of 23 squads selected by
UEFA. Based on hours of athlete exposure the data suggests that injury
incidence in this population is 8 injuries per 1,000 hours of exposure and
was significantly greater during match play compared with training. Im-
portantly, the findings demonstrate an increasing injury tendency with
time in both the first and second halves of matches. This would suggest
that injury rates are higher when players are more fatigued towards the
end of match play.

(PDF) The influence of fatigue on injury risk in male youth soccer

PDF | The incidence of non-contact injuries in youth sport is high and poses significant personal, social and economic burden on players and clubs. In... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

 

[MNVCGUY]

Which number is off? I didn't really give any. Which specific numbers are you referring to?

I simply said that his numbers in 2017 and 2018 were way off because he was injured. He was injured in both of those seasons. In 2019, I might be off. He might not have been injured. I do think 2019 was by far our best usage of our RBs, so that could certainly be.

I still don't see how this is a counter to my point. In every season but 2019, we have had pretty catastrophic injuries to our RB room.

If you think Fleck's done a nice job handling the workload of our RBs (specifically in the last two years), then you and I disagree. It's okay. I am a fan of Fleck, but I hate the way he handles our RBs. I can't imagine someone pointing to all the other seasons where the RB room was decimated by injuries is going to change my mind on that.

Go back to your post where you laid things out in 2017, 2018, and 2019 then go back and look at my post with Smith's information and tell me if you can see any areas where your take on those seasons might have been a bit off.

I wouldn't mind seeing the Gophers spread the carries out more but I disagree that Fleck's usage of the RB's has led to a higher number of injuries at that position over the years he has been our coach.

RBs get hurt....a lot....that is why you need depth at that position. Hell Mason had his famous "Pair and a Spare" quote that gets brought up.

 

[Dakota2]

Why? The more miles on a car the more likely it is that weird things happen. I'm not blaming Fleck, but this is especially true the less fresh a player is.

I think a player playing 15 games of football is considerably more likely to tear their achilles than a player who plays 1 game.

Reps matter.

Miles on a car is not a good analogy. Football injuries are situational and highly unpredictable, much the same as a deer jumping in front of your new car as your driving home from the dealership.