Replacing Morgan is not going to make things better

[MplsGopher]

With Autman-Bell being hurt most of this season, Morgan doesn't have any of his top WRs from 2019, you don't think that makes a difference?

Jordan Love lost his top 5 WRs from the 2018 to 2019 team, you don't think that made a difference?

Mike White's regression was much smaller. He had 10 less TDs, but his INTs, completion percentage, and yardage were all similar between 2016 and 2017. White also lost his 2 top WRs who totaled 3,000 yards between the two of them in 2016. You don't think that made a difference?

Then how did we pass the ball against Ohio State?

How did they get open, then?


If Wright got benched yesterday -- SON put that hearsay out there -- then that is a collosal F-up, as he was a stud against OSU.

 

[SPEGOPHER]

With the play calling and the way the o-line played yesterday, I don’t think any QB in the country would’ve looked good, and those are way bigger issues than Tanner that need to be addressed first.

Still, I have a hard time believing Tanner’s the most talented QB on our roster (and in fact I really hope not). He’s got a weak arm, is indecisive and lacks awareness, is not great at making progressions, and is short/slow. He’s a great kid and leader, and has shown to be very accurate at times, but it’s wasted when he’s under pressure and all of our routes are 15-20 yards down the field.

 

[laazrakit]

Morgan was way off the mark on a lot of throws yesterday, even when he had time to throw.

Go back and watch some of that 2019 season... the season that everyone is using as the benchmark for Tanner's QB ability. Looking at the stats, it sure seems that Tanner has regressed... but go look at the film.

Look at the throws... A great deal of the time, he's just chuckin' the ball up and letting the receivers make the play. Game after game, somebody is making some spectacular catches to keep the game alive (and some easy catches that Tyler Johnson manages to muff... but he always made up for them.) Even that glorious Outback win against Auburn was saved by an absolutely insane reception by Bryce Witham...

Tanner hasn't regressed... He just isn't getting the help. Case in point, MBS had a chance to keep the Gophers chances alive with a difficult catch on a low throw against BG... and wasn't able to make the reception. If CAB was on the field, I gotta believe that he'd have made that catch... He's also been a savior in the past.

The best that's been able to be said about Morgan is that he's a steady game manager and that he makes good decisions. That went out the window against BG in the 4th quarter. He tried to make it happen, so to speak... and wasn't up to the challenge. Again, he wasn't afforded the help he needed... not from the OL... not from the WRs... and not from the coaching staff.

For Tanner to be successful, he's going to need that help... if the Gophers aren't going to be able to give it to him, he's going to really struggle.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

So maybe get some evidence and give him the shot.

Might as well break in Clark, then. Now third year in the program, probably better downfield arm than ZA based on little we’ve seen, far more HS game experience and overall success. Maybe higher ceiling?

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Then how did we pass the ball against Ohio State?

How did they get open, then?


If Wright got benched yesterday -- SON put that hearsay out there -- then that is a collosal F-up, as he was a stud against OSU.

Wright was out there late in the game. He played sparingly. Not sure of reasons.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Might as well break in Clark, then. Now third year in the program, probably better downfield arm than ZA based on little we’ve seen, far more HS game experience and overall success. Maybe higher ceiling?

Zack or Jack. I think it'll be Zack if it happens, but either works.

 

[Some Day...Maybe]

Gophers offense is going to struggle under Sanford no matter who plays under center. He has a track record of making draft prospect QBs worse and running great offenses into the ground.

Tanner Morgan (Minnesota)
2019 (pre-Sanford): 178.7 RTG; 30:7 TD:INT
2020 (Sanford): 128.1 RTG; 7:5 TD:INT
2021 (Sanford): 124.0 RTG; 3:2 TD:INT

Jordan Love (Utah State)
2018 (pre-Sanford): 158.3 RTG; 32:6 TD: INT (<- current NFL QB stats before Sanford)
2019 (Sanford): 129.1 RTG; 20:17 TD:INT (<- current NFL QB stats w/ Sanford)

Mike White (WKU)
2016 (pre-Sanford): 181.4 RTG; 37:7 TD:INT
2017 (Sanford): 140.8 RTG: 26:8 TD:INT
- Graduated -

2018 WKU Team QB Stats (they used 3 starters):
118.8 RTG; 15:10 TD:INT

He did okay with Kizer at Notre Dame (2014 - 2015) and has put together an awful track record since. I didn't understand this hire, and I think the results spoke for themselves.

He also did NOT call the plays at Notre Dame. It was a Robb Smith hire and it’s so sad when you have the guys on offense that Fleck has. What a waste of all that talent.

 

[Some Day...Maybe]

On KFAN just now for Viking pregame they brought up that PJ needs to have a buffet of a tough conversation with Sanford. They also said the game yesterday is not even worth talking about because it was such an embarrassment.

I honestly don’t like how PJ handled yesterday’s press conference. For me the sparkle of 2019 is now gone.

a lot of media has also been harsh about PJ being a really bad game manager.

And the record of 0-17 when trailing at the half is BAD.

how long does 2019 make the fans still fans of Fleck. Unless he drastically turns this season around, and there is still a lot of season left, with this level of talent on this team, could PJ find himself in the hot seat next year?
Remove the 2019 record and his overall body of work might not be very impressive here.
I love PJ, but this is a business and it’s not about what he did in 2019, it’s what he’s doing with this Uber talented squad this year

I think that thinking at this point about Fleck maybe being on the hot seat next year is ridiculous. He’s the best coach Gopher football has had in over a half century.

 

[MplsGopher]

He also did NOT call the plays at Notre Dame.

Hmm, interesting! Did not know that bit.

Found this here: https://www.uhnd.com/football/2017/01/10/brian-kelly-giving-play-calling-duties-chip-long-big-deal/

It’s also very telling that Kelly has already announced that Chip Long will be given this responsibility. Remember, when Kelly brought Mike Sanford on as offensive coordinator in 2015, he was evasive over who was calling the plays between Sanford, Denbrock, and himself. It wasn’t until the end of the 2015 season that we knew who was actually calling the plays. That vagueness led in part to a three headed monster that worked great in 2015, but not so much in 2016.

 

[Gophergrandpa]

the replacing of Morgan may wake some people up. That's what I'm thinking.

Ideally, replacing the QB wakes up the rest of the offense, most of whom realize that the QB’s poor or tentative play is as much a result of their own poor play as anything the QB did or didn’t do. It’s like pulling a goalie in hockey. Intent is to shake up the entire team, not just change the netminder.

 

[Some Day...Maybe]

Morgan has not been the same since the 2019 season. Not sure what is wrong, but something is off.

He lost his OC. Don’t overthink it.

 

[Some Day...Maybe]

Amazing might be a bit of an overstatement. They did not get to Pasadena. They didn't even get to Indy. No Axe. No Floyd. They won the Outback Bowl. Their two biggest rivals expect to at least get to that tier of bowl every year.

Ya, all those other Gopher coaches over the last 50 years have done much better. Those prior top 10 rankings and 11 win seasons. Plus, we won the Axe so many times the previous decade or so before Fleck got here.

 

[BoatRacer]

if current PJ/Ssanford cant beat BG with senior laden team, I dont think we will win many games. They may win games they're not supposed to and lost games they're not supposed to either. It is the sign of bad coaching. PJ is killing goodwill and interest of ordinary folks. We're here as diehard fans. If he keeps his buddy out of pride and arrogance, the program will pay the consequences. 2019 was great but it was only ONE season!

 

[Some guy]

Yesterday:
Slow developing patterns
No counters to BG blitz
Poor protection
Predictable runs on first, second down. Runs on third and long at critical junctures.
Draining the clock late in the game down by 4
Not much help from his receivers

Tanner hasn’t displayed his 2019 accuracy in 2020 or 2021 but he shows glimpses. He has been put in bad positions by his coaches. Maybe he overachieved in 2019 but I don’t think so. He was putting balls into tiny windows, great anticipation. I’m not ready to give up on him yet. Not even close. I am ready to close the book on Mike Sanford Jr. The offense has been clunky since he arrived and shifted into reverse yesterday. Pull the plug PJ. The fans and team are slowly losing confidence. Continued struggles will hit recruiting as well. Do it now.

I generally agree with this, but part of Morgan putting balls into tiny windows was guys making unbelievable catches and having a ton of options.

Here is Morgan’s best game:

His first highlight he is throwing to his third option. This year that same guy is his injured first option.

second touchdown is a play that would be a 15 yard gain this year

third touchdown would be an incompletion this year

Fourth highlight would be an incompletion or interception this year.

Fifth highlight would still be a touchdown this year


2019 game 5/5 with 4 touchdowns
2019 game with 2021 wideouts 3/5 with two touchdowns and maybe a pick. Two touchdowns both contingent on guys over playing guys who are no longer on team to create that space.

 

[hello-world]

2019 game 5/5 with 4 touchdowns
2019 game with 2021 wideouts 3/5 with two touchdowns and maybe a pick. Two touchdowns both contingent on guys over playing guys who are no longer on team to create that space.

I agree with this argument to an extent, but KC's offense was designed to open that space. Smith's offense is... not designed for much. I don't think Wright / CRAB is that much worse of a 1-2 punch than Bateman / Johnson.

 

[Some guy]

I agree with this argument to an extent, but KC's offense was designed to open that space. Smith's offense is... not designed for much. I don't think Wright / CRAB is that much worse of a 1-2 punch than Bateman / Johnson.

if you watch the offenses, they are really running the same plays 80-90% of the time

There is a bit more of a 7 step passing game now than there was then. But it’s a small part of it.

Ciarocca seemingly has better timing than Sanford. That’s the biggest difference. They’re literally running the same plays a majority of the time.

 

[hello-world]

if you watch the offenses, they are really running the same plays 80-90% of the time

There is a bit more of a 7 step passing game now than there was then. But it’s a small part of it.

Ciarocca seemingly has better timing than Sanford. That’s the biggest difference. They’re literally running the same plays a majority of the time.

They aren't though. The RPO has completely disappeared, or isn't being coached right. If that offense is working, then you never see Morgan leading the receiver into the safety, and he should always be throwing away from numbers. That's not happening right now.

Morgan is supposed to read the safety to run that offense. I haven't seen that happen at all this season. If that's not happening, then the slant spam isn't going to work.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

I agree with this argument to an extent, but KC's offense was designed to open that space. Smith's offense is... not designed for much. I don't think Wright / CRAB is that much worse of a 1-2 punch than Bateman / Johnson.

You can’t be serious. Plus CRAB has barely played this season. How many catches did Wright have yesterday?

Didn’t KC get fired after last season?

 

[Some guy]

They aren't though. The read option has completely disappeared, or isn't being coached right. If that offense is working, then you never see Morgan leading the receiver into the safety, and he should always be throwing away from numbers. That's not happening right now.

Morgan is supposed to read the safety to run that offense. I haven't seen that happen at all this season. If that's not happening, then the slant spam isn't going to work.

We never ran read option. Not sure why you are talking about. You might mean something else.

the gophers don’t run RPO nearly as much as people think they do. They don’t now. They didn’t two years ago. It’s mostly called play action. Our wideouts don’t get separation from the corners as much as they did 2 years ago. The reason that Morgan is holding the ball and taking sacks is because the wideouts can’t get off the corners. The reason the run game is failing is because the wideouts can’t get off the corners and the safeties don’t have to stay back. The reason the offense doesn’t make an adjustment is because they never have. It is why the offense also sucked in 2017 and 2018.

 

[PMWinSTP]

They aren't though. The read option has completely disappeared, or isn't being coached right. If that offense is working, then you never see Morgan leading the receiver into the safety, and he should always be throwing away from numbers. That's not happening right now.

Morgan is supposed to read the safety to run that offense. I haven't seen that happen at all this season. If that's not happening, then the slant spam isn't going to work.

Read option is a play with the RB or QB running so I'm not sure what you are talking about here.

 

[hello-world]

Read option is a play with the RB or QB running so I'm not sure what you are talking about here.

Yeah sorry fixed in original post

 

[Pompous Elitist]

I generally agree with this, but part of Morgan putting balls into tiny windows was guys making unbelievable catches and having a ton of options.

Here is Morgan’s best game:

His first highlight he is throwing to his third option. This year that same guy is his injured first option.

second touchdown is a play that would be a 15 yard gain this year

third touchdown would be an incompletion this year

Fourth highlight would be an incompletion or interception this year.

Fifth highlight would still be a touchdown this year


2019 game 5/5 with 4 touchdowns
2019 game with 2021 wideouts 3/5 with two touchdowns and maybe a pick. Two touchdowns both contingent on guys over playing guys who are no longer on team to create that space.

We don’t have a playmaker the caliber of Bateman or with his speed but overall you’re being pretty negative, don’t you think?

This is more than just talent. It’s overall design and responding to what the defense is doing. Utilizing clock. Utilizing first down. Are we doing those things properly?

 

[Some guy]

We don’t have a playmaker the caliber of Bateman or with his speed but overall you’re being pretty negative, don’t you think?

This is more than just talent. It’s overall design and responding to what the defense is doing. Utilizing clock. Utilizing first down. Are we doing those things properly?

No doubt no.
I am not dismissing it.
I’m saying they aren’t doing stuff that different from when Kirk C was OC.

im saying that’s fleck.

I’m not saying it’s good. The reason we suck offensively is the same reason we sucked offensively in 2017 and 2018 before Sanford.

I’m saying that they continually do the same old things and it’s only really produced a good offense once and that was because of an insane amount of talent on the edge. We don’t have one player the caliber of Johnson or Bateman who is healthy on the edge. To be successful they are going to have to change. But Fleck has shown he won’t.

I expect a mediocre offense to continue this year.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

We never ran read option. Not sure why you are talking about. You might mean something else.

the gophers don’t run RPO nearly as much as people think they do. They don’t now. They didn’t two years ago. It’s mostly called play action. Our wideouts don’t get separation from the corners as much as they did 2 years ago. The reason that Morgan is holding the ball and taking sacks is because the wideouts can’t get off the corners. The reason the run game is failing is because the wideouts can’t get off the corners and the safeties don’t have to stay back. The reason the offense doesn’t make an adjustment is because they never have. It is why the offense also sucked in 2017 and 2018.

OK, what would you do as coach?

 

[hello-world]

We never ran read option. Not sure why you are talking about. You might mean something else.

the gophers don’t run RPO nearly as much as people think they do. They don’t now. They didn’t two years ago. It’s mostly called play action. Our wideouts don’t get separation from the corners as much as they did 2 years ago. The reason that Morgan is holding the ball and taking sacks is because the wideouts can’t get off the corners. The reason the run game is failing is because the wideouts can’t get off the corners and the safeties don’t have to stay back. The reason the offense doesn’t make an adjustment is because they never have. It is why the offense also sucked in 2017 and 2018.

In that Purdue clip above, 4 out of 5 touchdown passes come off of RPO, two off of the first read. If he's just running play action, then he's doing an awfully good job of freezing the linebacker regardless.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

No doubt no.
I am not dismissing it.
I’m saying they aren’t doing stuff that different from when Kirk C was OC.

im saying that’s fleck.

I’m not saying it’s good. The reason we suck offensively is the same reason we sucked offensively in 2017 and 2018 before Sanford.

I’m saying that they continually do the same old things and it’s only really produced a good offense once and that was because of an insane amount of talent on the edge. We don’t have one player the caliber of Johnson or Bateman who is healthy on the edge. To be successful they are going to have to change. But Fleck has shown he won’t.

I expect a mediocre offense to continue this year.

The offense was a clunker even with Bateman last year. Of course it hurts to lose a guy like that but that’s not the whole story. Scoring 10 points against BG, struggling for most of his tenure rings alarm bells.

Great college QBs are few and far between. Morgan has not performed well, yes, but why? If you go with ZA or JC better be damn sure that’s the right move.

 

[Some guy]

OK, what would you do as coach?

I wouldn’t enter the game with the offensive mind set to end the game as quickly as possible.

I would enter trying to score by coming up with creative ways to do so.

But that’s the way we play it. I don’t think we should fire fleck. But he does frustrate me. He frustrated me against south dakota state in 2019. He frustrated me against Nebraska when we got crushed by an 0pher Nebraska team in frosts first year. I get frustrated with him for the same reason Ohio state fans got frustrated by tressel.

 

[Some guy]

In that Purdue clip above, 4 out of 5 touchdown passes come off of RPO, two off of the first read. If he's just running play action, then he's doing an awfully good job of freezing the linebacker regardless.

No they don’t. Bateman play was double move.
CAB was called play action.
other Bateman play was called play action.
TJ play was just a fade

the tip off is the linemen not going down field

 

[Some guy]

The offense was a clunker even with Bateman last year. Of course it hurts to lose a guy like that but that’s not the whole story. Scoring 10 points against BG, struggling for most of his tenure rings alarm bells.

Great college QBs are few and far between. Morgan has not performed well, yes, but why? If you go with ZA or JC better be damn sure that’s the right move.

Certainly Morgan us not good at running the 15-20% of the offense that is 7 step passing (which is the biggest change from KC). If another QB is better at that it could help.

I agree. The only good offense Fleck has produced was the last couple of games of 2018 and 2019. Which happen to be once Bateman had a little experience and TJ was still on the team. They’ve had moments of success but not sustained consistency. Offense was a clunker last year but was at least decent to produce the running back of the year.

Offense was 5/14 in yards per game last year and 6/14 in scoring. Not like it was the worst ever. The bigger problem is individual games that are clunkers than overall being horrible. And a lot of that, to me, stems from the whole offensive strategy that TOP > everything else.


I don’t think MN is going to find a better coach than Fleck. So I’m just going to learn to accept it

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Minnesota currently last in the Big Ten in total offense and 12th in scoring.

Morgan was selected as second team all conference by the coaches and media in 2019. Something doesn’t add up.