All Things COVID-19 College Football Impact

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Indiana is a very conservative state. They elected Mike Pence, for crying out loud.

Neither IU nor Purdue president voted for playing.

So the political thing is pure bunk.
 

Word said:
My post wasn't necessarily directed at you. As a science guy myself (I'm an IT alum) I've never been a huge fan of science that is not "settled" grabbing headlines in the newspaper or cable news crawls. Now it's on Twitter. I think it gives a false impression to many (not necessarily you) of how science works or that it's flawed because there is disagreement. Its a general concern I have that isn't directly related to COVID or myocarditis, but certainly applies here to some degree.
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Agree. This has been a bad year for science. A lot of people are upset about it. COVID-19 has accelerated the hype train to incredible levels and this media story about a team doctor misstating findings of an unpublished paper of unknown significance during a local school district zoom call ...getting blasted coast to coast as unvarnished truth of millions of cases of myocarditis is emblematic.
 


Block M said:
By the time the cardiologists come to a consensus the season will be over and a vaccine available. I think any player who's had Covid and wants a cardiac MRI before returning to play, they should be able to get one. Beyond that, if they want to roll the dice, its fine.
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I can only imagine that cardiologists are at least a little pissed that science passed them by, on their current procedure.

People will be questioning "why did you ever prescribe an MRI for me?? Why only an ECG??".

Could be some CYA going on.
 

MplsGopher said:
I can only imagine that cardiologists are at least a little pissed that science passed them by, on their current procedure.

People will be questioning "why did you ever prescribe an MRI for me?? Why only an ECG??".

Could be some CYA going on.
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Or, as they state....there is no evidence isolated T1/T2 findings equate to clinical myocarditis or long term problems.

Your second sentence is true - beyond a lot of wasted mental energy on everyone’s part unfounded alarmism and concern will lead to a lot of overtesting, overdiagnosis, and interventionitis.
 


Pompous Elitist said:
Or, as they state....there is no evidence isolated T1/T2 findings equate to clinical myocarditis or long term problems.

Your second sentence is true - beyond a lot of wasted mental energy on everyone’s part unfounded alarmism and concern will lead to a lot of overtesting, overdiagnosis, and interventionitis.
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Actually ...... OK. I think I am with you here, for the most part.

Thanks for the tweet by Chetan. Planning to make a post about that in a bit.
 






Word said:
My post wasn't necessarily directed at you. As a science guy myself (I'm an IT alum) I've never been a huge fan of science that is not "settled" grabbing headlines in the newspaper or cable news crawls. Now it's on Twitter. I think it gives a false impression to many (not necessarily you) of how science works or that it's flawed because there is disagreement. Its a general concern I have that isn't directly related to COVID or myocarditis, but certainly applies here to some degree.
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I have some sympathy for this type of idea. Perhaps, on average, it tends to do more harm than good.

My big problem though, is like this: too often, we can see the train coming. The signs are there. Maybe not exactly perfect, but what ever is? The world is noisy. But the signal is reasonably strong ... and with enough time to actually do something about it, if we act early!

But we almost never do. We only ever seem to act, when it's too late to do something about it, without major, colossal costs.
 


Pompous Elitist said:
Agree. This has been a bad year for science. A lot of people are upset about it. COVID-19 has accelerated the hype train to incredible levels and this media story about a team doctor misstating findings of an unpublished paper of unknown significance during a local school district zoom call ...getting blasted coast to coast as unvarnished truth of millions of cases of myocarditis is emblematic.
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So .... what you're raving about is ... we should just change the thread title to something like "Ohio State cardiac MRI scans find 15% of covid positive student athletes show heart inflammation" ?
 

NotAFanOfBecky said:
You gotta be careful here with that thought process. Because one awarded a degree in a particular field doesn’t mean that they only do that work. Many MDs are researchers and many go beyond being a GP or a cardiologist. There is a lot of overlap in this type of work. If we fail to think so, then everyone on this board with the exception of a handful of people could be qualified to comment. I believe many of us have expertise in areas where we could make a reasonable thought or argument to validate a point without being considered unqualified to do so, yourself included. But hey that’s just my opinion. 😀
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Again, MD/PhD is a specific path that one elects to go down. It has its own regimine that you follow. It is its own thing.

This doesn't seem that complex, to me. But yet, a lot of opinions being thrown around by folks who are only MDs ...
 



Pompous Elitist said:
Another tweet that supports my “agenda”. U of M cardiologist.


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I enjoyed this Tweet, and particularly the dialog with Adler. Thanks for sharing.

Seems to be exactly the type of expert who should be weighing in on this. Tenured prof in the med school, in the cardiac division, who specifically does research in MRI for cardiac disease. https://med.umn.edu/bio/cardiovasular/chetan-shenoy

Finally. Someone qualified to have an opinion, on this.


Aside: you can be a prof, and get NIH funding as a PI .... without having a PhD??? That seems ... wrong. I realize the MBBS is a degree from India. So maybe that plays into it a bit, but still.

So a doc can just roll out of bed one day and say "I'm going to start doing research! Let me start writing a grant proposal ..." ??? Didn't know that's how the Med School rolls. Most certainly is not that way in CSE, and probably every other dept/school at the U.
 

MplsGopher said:
So .... what you're raving about is ... we should just change the thread title to something like "Ohio State cardiac MRI scans find 15% of covid positive student athletes show heart inflammation" ?
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No, the misleading inferences should be deleted altogether. The study does not yet exist. It may, in some form, in the near future. What will it show?

Is clinical myocarditis more common in COVID-19? Maybe? If you go looking for things, you just might find them. What significance?
 



golf said:
As of a couple weeks ago, 25 of the 26 states with
republican governors are playing high school fall football. 15 out of 22 with dem governors are not playing football. 2 undecided.

Pac12 is dem country and is not. The south, southeast, and midwest are more conservative and those college conferences are playing. Big ten is somewhat split, however the 3 schools that voted to keep playing are in conservative states.

Seems like the big10 thought the big10 not playing would be a positive for the anti-trump cause, however it has not worked out that way. The other conferences did not follow the big 10's lead. Also, despite biden running an ad blaming trump for the big10 shutdown, it doesnt appear to be sticking.
Dems fear they will be blamed in battleground states now when the other conferences kickoff.

All political.
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My question was do you think that the B10 & Pac12 potentially lost hundreds of millions of dollars because they wanted to show how much they hated Trump and wanted to blame him? I understand the governor data you put out and it would be easy to see the correlation. But correlation does not always equal causation.

Why does this have to be political and not just the fact that different states and the people making decisions in those states have different appetites in regards to risk? I just can't see how the Presidents and Chancellors made this decision based on who their governor chose as a political party and how much they theoretically hate Trump.

People can have different opinions without all of those opinions reverting back to politics.
 


MN-Moose said:
My question was do you think that the B10 & Pac12 potentially lost hundreds of millions of dollars because they wanted to show how much they hated Trump and wanted to blame him? I understand the governor data you put out and it would be easy to see the correlation. But correlation does not always equal causation.

Why does this have to be political and not just the fact that different states and the people making decisions in those states have different appetites in regards to risk? I just can't see how the Presidents and Chancellors made this decision based on who their governor chose as a political party and how much they theoretically hate Trump.

People can have different opinions without all of those opinions reverting back to politics.
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Bolded: that used to be true. Not anymore
 

MN-Moose said:
My question was do you think that the B10 & Pac12 potentially lost hundreds of millions of dollars because they wanted to show how much they hated Trump and wanted to blame him? I understand the governor data you put out and it would be easy to see the correlation. But correlation does not always equal causation.

Why does this have to be political and not just the fact that different states and the people making decisions in those states have different appetites in regards to risk? I just can't see how the Presidents and Chancellors made this decision based on who their governor chose as a political party and how much they theoretically hate Trump.

People can have different opinions without all of those opinions reverting back to politics.
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I suppose you are correct that there is no way to know motivations for certain. These days politics cause organizations to make monetary sacrifice at the altar of diversity. Wouldnt NYT increases subscriptions with a more balanced approach? Mayo is contributing $10 million toward diversity. Could that be used better in other ways? Minnesota Twins i believe are contributing $25 million. Many corporations contributing big bucks. Big 10 read the tea leaves and followed suit, but are now seeing backlash so considering change of direction.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Sure, not political at all. Easy to explain to the B1G student athletes why they are getting hosed, I'm sure. Easy answers to those questions I'll bet.
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Why does it have to be "political?"

The B1G Presidents chose to take a more conservative approach to player safety. Do you really think that politics came up in the discussions? Like a B1G President said "it's probably safe to play, but let's postpone the season because Trump won't like it...."

People can have different opinions without it being political.

If you want to blame anyone, blame the B1G's medical advisors. From what has been revealed, it appears that the B1G based its decision largely on medical opinions/information.

And let's face it - when it comes to covid, there are a lot of different medical opinions out there. If the B1G had different medical advisors, they might be playing right now.
 

Oh - the Yacht guy was tweeting that Ohio State and Nebraska were going to leave the B1G. Ohio State was going to be an independent, or join the ACC. Nebraska was going back to the Big 12. He also said the Michigan Board of Regents was going to hold a vote of no confidence in the President.

the guy just keeps breaking scoops. It's amazing.
 

golf said:
I suppose you are correct that there is no way to know motivations for certain. These days politics cause organizations to make monetary sacrifice at the altar of diversity. Wouldnt NYT increases subscriptions with a more balanced approach? Mayo is contributing $10 million toward diversity. Could that be used better in other ways? Minnesota Twins i believe are contributing $25 million. Many corporations contributing big bucks. Big 10 read the tea leaves and followed suit, but are now seeing backlash so considering change of direction.
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I'm all for diversity in every aspect of life. How individual companies spend their money is their prerogative. If they think it will help their business, more power to them. There will always be backlash from someone. If that backlash turns out to be enough to hurt the bottom line more than the company is comfortable with; they will flip script or fail. For profit companies rarely act in altruistic ways. I don't have a problem with companies acting in their best interest until they can't and are forced to change or fail.

I think the B10 & Pac12 are acting in their best interests. It will work, they will be forced to change or they will fail. No politics. Just self interest. It will sort itself out.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Why would we expect to agree on things 100%?

Anti-science? What part? Continual evolution of understanding, debate is part of the process. Quality, ethical work, peer review is fundamental. You sound more like an ideologue than a scientist at times. Venk Murphy is one of the watchdogs and that seems to set you off for some reason. Why?
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Framing continual evolution of understanding as a failure of medical science, not as part of the process, is where it starts to tip toe that line.

Lol an ideologue really? Where are you getting that?
 
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Pompous - with all due respect -

you are not approaching this as some disinterested observer, or from a purely clinical standpoint.

You have a point of view. some might say you have an agenda.

And you promote medical news/findings that tend to support your point of view.

Fine- you have a right to do that.

But don't turn around and pretend like you're some medical ombudsman who is interested only in the facts. Or that you are able to pass final judgement on these issues based on your superior knowledge and wisdom.

if you were that good, you would be in a lab actually studying these issues - not posting about them on an internet message board.

Me, I'm just a tired old dude who comes on here for fun. for me, watching you and Mpls go back and forth is like watching monkeys in the zoo throw feces at each other. And that is all the intellectual level that I attach to it.

you have every right to your point of view. it's the holier-than-thou attitude that bothers me. or at least that is the way I perceive your comments.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Oh - the Yacht guy was tweeting that Ohio State and Nebraska were going to leave the B1G. Ohio State was going to be an independent, or join the ACC. Nebraska was going back to the Big 12. He also said the Michigan Board of Regents was going to hold a vote of no confidence in the President.

the guy just keeps breaking scoops. It's amazing.
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Very much an aside: if it weren't for all the money that we get as a result of Mich, Ohio St, and Penn St being in the conf, I really just would not care to be in a conf with any of the East schools.

A conf of the current West division, plus Iowa St, Kansas, and Missouri, would be ideal, I think. Maybe Indiana would prefer that conf as well, which would be fine.
 

MN-Moose said:
I'm all for diversity in every aspect of life. How individual companies spend their money is their prerogative. If they think it will help their business, more power to them. There will always be backlash from someone. If that backlash turns out to be enough to hurt the bottom line more than the company is comfortable with; they will flip script or fail. For profit companies rarely act in altruistic ways. I don't have a problem with companies acting in their best interest until they can't and are forced to change or fail.

I think the B10 & Pac12 are acting in their best interests. It will work, they will be forced to change or they will fail. No politics. Just self interest. It will sort itself out.
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Yes, but their "best interest" is driven by politics. Agree to disagree. :)
 

golf said:
Everything is just so political these days. Agree to disagree. :)
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I mostly agree that everything is just so political these days. Just wish it didn't always have to be viewed or attributed to that lens. People should just be able to think differently from others without it being attributed to politics. I appreciate the civil back and forth!
 

The one thing we Gopher fans have to hope DOESN’T happen if the NCAA changes the recruiting rules - back to last year’s rules. Allowing campus visits during the season. As a recruit on game day, would you rather visit Iowa State or Oklahoma on game day or come to Mn. and watch a DVD?
 

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