Seth Davis on Pitino at MN: "before the fans run him out of the job, perhaps they should consider whom the school might find who would do any better."

[BleedGopher]

per Davis' Q&A:

Do you ever think that Richard Pitino will end up as good as his dad? Obviously it’s a huge task, but we Gophers fans are dying for something more than a round of 64 win. — Carson R.

Richard Pitino is used to being asked about, and compared to, his father. Considering that Rick took three schools to the Final Four, won two NCAA titles (though the one at Louisville was vacated) and is in the Hall of Fame, it’s fair to surmise that Richard will fall short of that. The larger question for Minnesota fans is whether he can get that program to the point where they will stop trying to fire him every time his team loses a game.

Richard’s name frequently pops up on hot seat lists, but I’ve never really sensed his job was in danger. However, this is undoubtedly an important year for him. The 2020-21 season will mark Pitino’s ninth season at the helm, and he has just one NCAA Tournament victory to show for it. The Golden Gophers missed out on the tournament in five of his first seven years, and barring a surprising run in the Big Ten tournament they were destined to miss it again in 2020. If Pitino wants to silence the hot seat chatter next spring, he needs to get his team back into the bracket.

I realize it is in fans’ nature to have unrealistic expectations (and I love them for that), but it’s worth noting that Pitino did not exactly inherit a stellar tradition. The Gophers’ first-round win over Louisville in 2019 was just the program’s second NCAA Tournament victory since 1997. That was the year Minnesota reached the Final Four under Clem Haskins, but that was vacated when Haskins was found to have committed academic fraud, bringing on massive NCAA penalties that set the program back a long way. Williams Arena, aka The Barn, is one of college basketball’s most hallowed arenas, but Minnesota’s facilities have lagged behind those at its Big Ten counterparts. The state does not produce a lot of high-major prospects, and when it does, Pitino has to fend off blue bloods from all over the country. And needless to say, Minnesota isn’t the easiest place to be during the wintertime.

That’s not to make excuses, but to Carson’s question, even if Richard was as good as his dad, I’m not sure it would make a lot of difference. So before the fans run him out of the job, perhaps they should consider whom the school might find who would do any better. Because, to paraphrase a former Celtics coach, Rick Pitino is not coming through that door.

College hoops mailbag: A fair 2021 bracket, Leonard Hamilton’s HOF chances, more

Seth Davis answers subscribers' questions on college basketball.

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Go Gophers!!

 

[Cayman]

The same was said about Tubby when he was fired, “how can Minnesota expect to do better?” Looking back, I think both Tubby and Pitino were capable of better results than they got, and both of them had seasons derailed by untimely injuries and personnel losses. For Tubby, it’s Royce White never playing, Al Nolen being academically ineligible and Trevor Mbakwe getting suspended in 2009-10, Mbakwe getting injured again in the 2011-12 season, and then Justin Cobbs transferring, Devoe Joseph transferring, and Al Nolen getting injured all within the span of about 9 months.

For Pitino it probably starts with Rakeem Buckles getting denied before the start of his first season, narrowly missing on landing Reid Travis on the night of the season opener, and Andre Hollins getting injured right at the beginning of the Wisconsin game at the Barn. The Gophers ended up winning that game, but then we went on to lose our next 3 games against Northwestern, Nebraska, and Purdue by a total of 8 points while Dre was out. I think we were on the low end of the top 50 in the RPI at the end of the regular season and barely missed the tournament. Going on to win the NIT still left a fairly positive vibe around the program at the time, but a tournament appearance in year one would have likely made a bigger positive early impression.

We opened Big Ten play in 2014-15 as a projected tournament team, but started off 2-7 with 6 of those 7 losses being by 5 points or less, and then finished the season at 3-7 in games decided by 5 points or less, 4-9 in games decided by 6 or less.

Jarvis Johnson declared medically ineligible before the start of his freshman season.

Even the 2016-17 season, arguably Pitino's best, started off with Devonte Fitzgerald suffering a season ending injury before a game was played, then Akeem Springs and Nate Mason both getting injured in the final games of the season, and losing to a 12 seed in the tournament.

Eric Curry suffers his first of multiple injury setbacks in the fall before the 2017-18 season, Dupree McBrayer plays most the season hobbled, not even practicing due to his nagging injury, and regresses from his sophomore season in most statistical categories. Then Amir Coffey goes out with injury for most of conference play, along with Reggie Lynch getting suspended at just about the exact same time, and the season collapses, after being a preseason top 25 team.

2018-19 was pretty good, the team actually finished 15th nationally in Kenpom's luck measure, but you wonder what that team would have been like with Marcus Carr playing, especially seeing as it feels like we won't get that redshirt senior year out of him. But it leads into the 2019-20 season with Amir Coffey waiting until the last possible minute to decide whether to leave for the NBA or stay in college, forcing Pitino to hold a scholarship open for him the whole time. I understand why Amir did it and I'm not really upset by it, but it also handicapped us from even trying to find a replacement for him. We finished at #27 in Kenpom, but went 1-7 in games decided by 5 points or less and finished bottom 10 nationally in luck for the second time with Pitino. Plus it's not all the time that a guy who isn't even projected for the second round still decides to leave college early. I'm glad he's still in the NBA at the moment, but it wouldn't have been insane for him to stay for his senior year, which would have made a substantial difference. It wouldn't have been that crazy for us to get 2 seasons of Carr, Coffey, and Oturu in the starting lineup, but instead we got 0.

Humorously enough, as far as I can tell, the 2019-20 Minnesota basketball team is the highest ranked sub-.500 team in Kenpom history, by a fairly substantial margin. Closest I could find was 2018-19 Penn State, who finished #43 with a 14-18 record. Minnesota was #46 that year at 22-14, and I think Penn State might have been favored over us in that Big Ten tournament game, one for which I was actually in attendance.

All of that is to say that, as someone who is still generally a fan of Pitino, and isn't extremely upset with him about how last season turned out, I think if you replaced him with a coach of roughly equal ability, as long as you have some decent luck early on, like sell a big time recruit on being the guy who will kickstart a new era at your program, get a 3 or 4 star who ends up being an all conference player, avoid significant injuries to your best players, win 7 one-possession games in the same season and get national recognition and an easy first-round NCAA tournament game, or get a 10 seed and spring a couple of upsets and get a Sweet Sixteen. If you can get things going early while the fan base is either still infatuated with their new coach, or are at least remaining neutral until things play out for 2-3 years, I think you just establish a more positive vibe around the program early on, and you can parlay that into recruiting success, and you don't have the local press out to get you.

Pitino had a fighter's chance of getting Reid Travis and making the tournament in both of his first two years here, and you wonder how that would have affected the subsequent seasons. (Hell, the Gophers have had realistic tournament aspirations at some point or another pretty much every season Pitino has been here, save 2015-16.) Cutting ties with Pitino and getting a new coach starts that new coach with a fresh opportunity to make a good first impression with fans and coaches for recruiting relationships, and maybe the dominoes fall in Minnesota's favor in those first couple years with another coach, they get the big time recruit, make the tournament in the first two years, and now that new coach is popular and well-liked and the whole state is behind him and it's a different ballgame. I kind of wonder how impressions of PJ Fleck would differ if he actually lost one of those non-conference games last year, then lost to Penn State, and lost the bowl game. That takes you from 11-2 and one of the hottest new coaches in the country, where the coach's name is being mentioned as a potential hire at Florida State and USC, to 8-5 and that's not bad, but it's not new, unseen territory either.

Conclusion being that I think the value in starting over with a new coach, is not so much because we can easily expect to get someone who is substantially better, but to get a fresh start, and allow that new coach to start off on the right foot from square one, avoid the early setbacks and mishaps, whether they can be fairly blamed on the coach or not, and see if you can catch lightning in a bottle early and move up from there.

 

[skauma]

This is such a cliche, simple and old argument of "who would do better"....I hate it. Its not the fans job to know what future candidates would do better, but fans can absolutely criticize results and want change if expectations aren't meant. Sure, the ones crying in the first 2-3 years can sound stupid...but after 6-7 years? If a coach fails to meet expectations year after year, are fans just supposed to go "drrrr, I don't know of anyone better, so lets just keep this guy"?

And then, when fans do suggest someone who might be better, the same group that brought up the argument for them to "consider whom the school/team might find who would do any better", jumps on them claiming unrealistic expectations, or saying the school/team doesnt have a blank check, or so-and-so candidate might not want to coach here.

Disclaimer: Even though I brought up some parallels to Richard's stay here, I'm not trying to make a point on whether or not he should stay here....just trying to make a point on the "who could we get who would be better" cliche that fans in any state/city/school hear a lot when the current guy isn't meeting expectation. If you feel a coach/owner/AD/GM/etc isn't meeting your expectations and someone asks "well who do you know that would do better?" it is a completely fine and fare point to say "I don't know, but this current guy/gal isn't working".

 

[skauma]

The article is also absolutely horrible...

"The larger question for fans is whether he can get that program to the point where they will stop trying to fire him every time his team loses a game."
Who the hell is trying to get him fired after every loss? A few people, maybe, but this fan base as a whole doesn't cry over one single loss. This is a very patient fan base as a whole.

"The 2020-21 season will mark Pitino’s ninth season at the helm, and he has just one NCAA Tournament victory to show for it"
actually, his 8th season, and yeah....only one tournament win to show for it. Excuse the fans for wanting more than that.

"I realize it is in fans’ nature to have unrealistic expectations"
Its not unrealistic to be upset over just one tournament win in 7 years. We are a Big Ten school.

"The state does not produce a lot of high-major prospects"
Umm...what? yeah, they do. Especially since Richard has taken over.

"even if Richard was as good as his dad, I’m not sure it would make a lot of difference"
This author is really trying to claim that if Richard had his team in the top 25 every year, and won two national championships, that we wouldn't be naming streets after him on campus? This guy is now beyond preposterous.

 

[Mulligan]

Yes, he's had some bad luck, but he's never been able to get a deep enough roster to overcome injuries or some weird occurence. Never have gotten the sense that there's been a plan that has been consistently followed. It's seemed to me that the teams have too often been patch-work, relying on transfers and spring recruits, a feeling of scrambling from year to year. That said, I'm looking forward to watching the latest assembly job and hope like hell there's a season.

 

[Gopherfan84]

The article is also absolutely horrible...
"I realize it is in fans’ nature to have unrealistic expectations"
Its not unrealistic to be upset over just one tournament win in 7 years. We are a Big Ten school.

Personally I think fans should argue B1G records and lack of a top 4 Finish.

"The state does not produce a lot of high-major prospects"
Umm...what? yeah, they do. Especially since Richard has taken

Actually we don’t. Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Illinois have more D1 kids than us in most years.

"even if Richard was as good as his dad, I’m not sure it would make a lot of difference"
"even if Richard was as good as his dad, I’m not sure it would make a lot of difference"
This author is really trying to claim that if Richard had his team in the top 25 every year, and won two national championships, that we wouldn't be naming streets after him on campus? This guy is now beyond preposterous.

I understood the point of this comment to be that Rick Pitino wouldn’t have achieved those accolades here with current resources. It’s a tough job.

I do agree with you Skauma that I don’t like the idea that we couldn’t do better and it’s a terrible and loser that philosophy. I’ve also been on record that I’d be willing and ok moving on and trying to find better.

 

[alaska]

I really have a hard time with the whole idea that we should keep Pitino because we cant get anyone better. If Coyle is the man, he will go get a coach that can recruit and get us out of mediocrity. This program has been sub par since he has been here. Period.

 

[alchemy2u]

It is a defeatist attitude to think we could not get a good coach to come to the U.

Part of the “we couldn’t get anyone better” school is because they think Pitino is a good coach and it would be difficult to find a better coach, rather than thinking the U is not a good enough job. It is more in the perception of what is a better coach. I know that many disagree, but I don’t want to rehash that argument, just pointing out another perspective on the comment.

 

[MplsGopher]

If/until we turn our program into a consistent winner in the Big Ten, we're never going to be in a position to hire someone straight off who has significantly more accolades/accomplishments in the P6 than what Pitino has at right now.

We're going to have to hire someone with potential, and hope they can deliver on it and build their program here.


I'm still of the opinion that our next head coach should and will come from the Mountain West. Whenever that may be.

 

[MRJ]

Personally I think fans should argue B1G records and lack of a top 4 Finish.


Actually we don’t. Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan, and Illinois have more D1 kids than us in most years.



I understood the point of this comment to be that Rick Pitino wouldn’t have achieved those accolades here with current resources. It’s a tough job.

I do agree with you Skauma that I don’t like the idea that we couldn’t do better and it’s a terrible and loser that philosophy. I’ve also been on record that I’d be willing and ok moving on and trying to find better.

I need a fact check here, because I can buy Michigan and Illinois. Wisconsin I think might be neck-and-neck, but Iowa? Maybe somebody can do more research on this.

As to the overall point, I've never respected Seth Davis in the least. He's little more than a talking head imo. No one could do better than one NCAA win in seven years? Okay Seth. I guess we better just accept our inherit below-mediocre standard.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

After 9 years, you are your record.

Every program in the country can rattle off a list of shouldas, wouldas and maybes. Every program in the country - with a few exceptions - has a recruit they missed out on, or sustains a key mid-season injury.

the numbers that jump out to me in Cayman's post are the results in close games.

from the 14-15 season: started off 2-7 with 6 of those 7 losses being by 5 points or less, and then finished the season at 3-7 in games decided by 5 points or less, 4-9 in games decided by 6 or less.

2018-19: but went 1-7 in games decided by 5 points or less

When a team consistently loses close games, I don't think that's bad luck. At some point, it's on the coach to analyze why the team is losing close games, and figure out a way to change things.

end-of-game situations are often where a coach can have the greatest impact - a key substitution, a shift in strategy, a change in defense. winning coaches make moves that win games. Losing coaches.....well, you get the idea.

 

[Gopherfan84]

I need a fact check here, because I can buy Michigan and Illinois. Wisconsin I think might be neck-and-neck, but Iowa? Maybe somebody can do more research on this.

As to the overall point, I've never respected Seth Davis in the least. He's little more than a talking head imo. No one could do better than one NCAA win in seven years? Okay Seth. I guess we better just accept our inherit below-mediocre standard.

Last couple years MN has had more D1 players than Iowa, but that didn’t used to be so. My point is we overvalue our states talent depth compared to many other states including many in our region. I’m fine criticizing Pitino, but do it in areas that warrant it.

 

[howeda7]

Ridiculous premise. We have been very patient with Richard overall. His results to so far are not acceptable to any program with an ounce of self respect. That said, most are reasonably optimistic about this year. If it goes poorly, he should and will be gone. 2 NCAA bids and one win in 8 years with 2 historically bad seasons mixed in is not good enough.

 

[Biggsohnasty]

There are a handful of things from Davis in there that I disagree with, though in general, I think his analysis of college basketball is fine.

The 'who could they get that is better' argument, while condescending and annoying, is probably a fair one. They aren't getting John Beilein. They aren't getting the top mid-major coach like Jacobson from UNI.

That doesn't mean there isn't a good coach out there who deserves an opportunity and is capable. A program like Minnesota needs to be able to identify that individual and be right. It's like a small-market organization in the NBA/MLB - you have to thread the needle a little bit to build a consistent winner (win trades, develop talent, sign smart FA) but that's how you do it. Minnesota, while in a great conference, is not viewed as a great program. If it was, Pitino wouldn't have been hired in the first place.

I'm tired of all the excuses laid out in above posts as to why Pitino's teams haven't achieved all that they are capable of. It's true, they almost got Travis. They almost had Buckles. They almost made the tournament. They almost had a second-weekend team in 2016. Almost, almost, almost. If this, if that.

This isn't the only program that missed on a recruit or sustained an injury. It keeps killing them because the depth is bad due to either missed evaluations in recruiting or an inability to maximize player development. Either way, that falls on the head coach - as they have all the control.

I'm fine with Pitino getting another year to see what can happen. I think next year's team - assuming there is a season - has a chance to be a tournament outfit. And while I generally don't like holding a coach for recruiting purposes, I'd like to see if he can take advantage of a terrific local 2022 group. If the team sucks next year, and recruiting continues to go the way it has, I think Pitino will have shown all that he's capable of here.

 

[Some guy]

I agree with Seth Davis that he wasn’t on the hot seat last year.
But I disagree with almost everything else in the article.

If you expect mediocrity than mediocrity is the highest you’ll achieve.
If you strive for more, you may not achieve it...but the chance of achieving it goes from zero to non-zero

 

[mnsportsgeek]

Ignoring the argument about whether Richard is the right person to lead us, I’d like to think any power conference program is capable of more than 2 tournament appearances in 7 years with the right leadership. Especially one that has made the investments in infrastructure it has recently made. Maybe that’s naive of me, but I choose to believe it.

So I think the entire premise that we can’t expect any better than what we have achieved in the past 7 years is hogwash. That’s the kind of thinking that would have Tracy Claeys here right now instead of PJ.

 

[MplsGopher]

Well, the Athlete’s Village, with its b-ball performance center/practice gyms/dining center/academic center, is only a few years old. That type of facility puts you on par with the P5, for what you need in order to attract top talent.

 

[builtbadgers]

Well, the Athlete’s Village, with its b-ball performance center/practice gyms/dining center/academic center, is only a few years old. That type of facility puts you on par with the P5, for what you need in order to attract top talent.

It helps but it is only one part of it. Players look at a ton of factors including winning.

 

[skiumah1]

There's way too many examples of programs who have no business winning, winning.

There will always be coaches on the rise from lower levels that make their way to the big-time and have success. Best ADs are the ones who identify those coaches and find a way to bring 'em in.

To concede your program can't do better is a mentality that doesn't belong in sports.

 

[builtbadgers]

There's way too many examples of programs who have no business winning, winning.

There will always be coaches on the rise from lower levels that make their way to the big-time and have success. Best ADs are the ones who identify those coaches and find a way to bring 'em in.

To concede your program can't do better is a mentality that doesn't belong in sports.

Well said. It is the AD's job to make that hire before anyone else does, it likely is a guy most do not know about and in fact may be a assistant or a coach at a lower level. Between thinking a program can not do better and making excuses is a recipe for failure, consistent failure. Fans eventually get sick of it and quit going, cut back on gifts.

 

[EG#9]

I cannot believe the Athletic allowed this to be printed. How many factual errors from Seth in this one answer? Pathetic.

Who could do better than Pitino? How about literally every other coach that has had the job by B1G winning percentage? How about the fact that he took over a program that had been to 3 of the last 5 NCAA tournaments and has been to two in 7 years? How about the fact that there is a brand new practice facility? How about the fact that the state that allegedly doesn't produce talent has two of the top 10 prospects in the '21 class and had between 5-6 top 100 kids in the '20 class? How about the fact that his will be year 8 and not year 9?

I understand wanting to protect a current coach all the media types do it to potentially keep and/or create a scource for themselves in future years. If you don't want to answer the question, don't choose it for your column.

Someone else in this thread claimed that Iowa produces more talent than Minnesota and that could not be further from the truth. In many years Iowa can't even field a team to compete at the highest shoe circuit levels. Minnesota has won these levels before and often competes at the highest level at both Adidas and Nike and even had an Under Armour team that was big times with Suggs/Dainja. The talent in Iowa is more on par with what you would find in Nebraska. This would be equivalent to claiming Minnesota produces more talent that Illinois.

 

[Gopherfan84]

I cannot believe the Athletic allowed this to be printed. How many factual errors from Seth in this one answer? Pathetic.

Who could do better than Pitino? How about literally every other coach that has had the job by B1G winning percentage? How about the fact that he took over a program that had been to 3 of the last 5 NCAA tournaments and has been to two in 7 years? How about the fact that there is a brand new practice facility? How about the fact that the state that allegedly doesn't produce talent has two of the top 10 prospects in the '21 class and had between 5-6 top 100 kids in the '20 class? How about the fact that his will be year 8 and not year 9?

I understand wanting to protect a current coach all the media types do it to potentially keep and/or create a scource for themselves in future years. If you don't want to answer the question, don't choose it for your column.

Someone else in this thread claimed that Iowa produces more talent than Minnesota and that could not be further from the truth. In many years Iowa can't even field a team to compete at the highest shoe circuit levels. Minnesota has won these levels before and often competes at the highest level at both Adidas and Nike and even had an Under Armour team that was big times with Suggs/Dainja. The talent in Iowa is more on par with what you would find in Nebraska. This would be equivalent to claiming Minnesota produces more talent that Illinois.

I corrected myself on Iowa and MN in recent hears. It wasn't always this way. It's more been a product of this last decade that MN ball has out performed Iowa.

 

[EG#9]

I corrected myself on Iowa and MN in recent hears. It wasn't always this way. It's more been a product of this last decade that MN ball has out performed Iowa.

I live in Iowa and have for most of my life. I am not sure when Iowa has ever had more talent than Minnesota and can speak on that going back to the 90's. There was a year where Iowa produced Nick Collison and Kirk Hinrich. Harrison Barnes and Doug McDermott were in the same class (at the same school), but McDermott wasn't considered much of a prospect at the time. Most of Iowa State's success has come with 2 or fewer Iowans on the roster because the state simply doesn't produce much talent. It's not unusual for the 4A champions (highest level in Iowa high school) to not have a high major player on the roster. Every couple of years there's a quality point guard out of Iowa (DJ Carton, Marcus Paige) but for the most part there are very few Iowans playing (much less starring) at high major schools outside of the state.

 

[Gopherfan84]

I live in Iowa and have for most of my life. I am not sure when Iowa has ever had more talent than Minnesota and can speak on that going back to the 90's. There was a year where Iowa produced Nick Collison and Kirk Hinrich. Harrison Barnes and Doug McDermott were in the same class (at the same school), but McDermott wasn't considered much of a prospect at the time. Most of Iowa State's success has come with 2 or fewer Iowans on the roster because the state simply doesn't produce much talent. It's not unusual for the 4A champions (highest level in Iowa high school) to not have a high major player on the roster. Every couple of years there's a quality point guard out of Iowa (DJ Carton, Marcus Paige) but for the most part there are very few Iowans playing (much less starring) at high major schools outside of the state.

First and most importantly, Sorry you have to live in Iowa. , secondly my memory must've served me incorrectly and I have overvalued them compared to us. My point still stands in that our history of good basketball players and even some depth is new and still smaller than many states in our region. It's not a reason to fire Pitino or any coach imo, however there are numerous other points of data that are more relevant and can be used to make that decision.

 

[howeda7]

There are a handful of things from Davis in there that I disagree with, though in general, I think his analysis of college basketball is fine.

The 'who could they get that is better' argument, while condescending and annoying, is probably a fair one. They aren't getting John Beilein. They aren't getting the top mid-major coach like Jacobson from UNI.

That doesn't mean there isn't a good coach out there who deserves an opportunity and is capable. A program like Minnesota needs to be able to identify that individual and be right. It's like a small-market organization in the NBA/MLB - you have to thread the needle a little bit to build a consistent winner (win trades, develop talent, sign smart FA) but that's how you do it. Minnesota, while in a great conference, is not viewed as a great program. If it was, Pitino wouldn't have been hired in the first place.

I'm tired of all the excuses laid out in above posts as to why Pitino's teams haven't achieved all that they are capable of. It's true, they almost got Travis. They almost had Buckles. They almost made the tournament. They almost had a second-weekend team in 2016. Almost, almost, almost. If this, if that.

This isn't the only program that missed on a recruit or sustained an injury. It keeps killing them because the depth is bad due to either missed evaluations in recruiting or an inability to maximize player development. Either way, that falls on the head coach - as they have all the control.

I'm fine with Pitino getting another year to see what can happen. I think next year's team - assuming there is a season - has a chance to be a tournament outfit. And while I generally don't like holding a coach for recruiting purposes, I'd like to see if he can take advantage of a terrific local 2022 group. If the team sucks next year, and recruiting continues to go the way it has, I think Pitino will have shown all that he's capable of here.

We could get Beilien. We might not, but it's not some terribly unlikely scenario. As for Jacobsen, not only could we likely get him, I'd hope we could do better than that.

 

[builtbadgers]

We could get Beilien. We might not, but it's not some terribly unlikely scenario. As for Jacobsen, not only could we likely get him, I'd hope we could do better than that.

Belein is not coming here. He has made it clear to his agent that he is working on something else, something more important. We have our coach for now.

 

[howeda7]

Belein is not coming here. He has made it clear to his agent that he is working on something else, something more important. We have our coach for now.

Fair enough. If he were to coach again, we would not have "no shot" at him is my only point.

 

[Gopherfan84]

We could get Beilien. We might not, but it's not some terribly unlikely scenario. As for Jacobsen, not only could we likely get him, I'd hope we could do better than that.

This is exactly the point Davis was attempting to make. No chance and Beilien. Jacobsen might have already passed on this job once around 8-9 years ago too

 

[1983]

Ridiculous premise. We have been very patient with Richard overall. His results to so far are not acceptable to any program with an ounce of self respect. That said, most are reasonably optimistic about this year. If it goes poorly, he should and will be gone. 2 NCAA bids and one win in 8 years with 2 historically bad seasons mixed in is not good enough.

I agree. Being last in recruiting in state is disgraceful and he cannot turn that around. He is handicapped by crappy facilities as well. The U has put basketball on the back burner to slowly turn to gravy for others to pour over their BIG championships and Minnesota grown rosters. Patino should have been fired last year. Who is better? I do not know but at this point it would not hurt to try somebody else. Nothing to lose.

 

[tmvander]

I agree. Being last in recruiting in state is disgraceful and he cannot turn that around. He is handicapped by crappy facilities as well. The U has put basketball on the back burner to slowly turn to gravy for others to pour over their BIG championships and Minnesota grown rosters. Patino should have been fired last year. Who is better? I do not know but at this point it would not hurt to try somebody else. Nothing to lose.

I think if he gets all of the transfers waivers through and they somehow bomb this season (if there is a season) it would be time to move on. This roster is probably one of the best on paper and easily the deepest. They aren't young and hopefully won't have injury or off the court issues. If they dodge those two things and still suck there are no excuses.

However, what is the measure of suck? Not making the dance? Not winning a game in the dance? What seed is acceptable, etc?