Where my Jelly Fam H8ers at?

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We were all wondering how a top 50-60 player in Washington had so few high offers. His play ground style is something that will take 3-4 years to unlearn. He is more interested in the highlight play then the correct play. I will try and be patient. Still I would start him and let Coffey slash from the wing.

How bad would this team be without such great backup C play by Stockman?
 


builtbadgers said:
I knowt that it was his intrepretation of some fans. Actually IW has a 4 turnover per 40 ratio, that is very poor and combined with poor shooting makes him a very inefficient offensive player. OE numbers do not lie. He also has below average DE .
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3.8 to be exact and his assist per 40 is 7.2 so that isn't so bad of a ratio. When you aggressively try to make plays, you're going to get some turnovers (and Washington is the most likely player on the team to dish the ball to a lesser player like Hurt, Omersa, or Stockman so that lowers his conversion rate a bit).
 

alchemy2u said:
This stems from blatant ignorance and those that are yelling out Harlem crap should be confronted and educated. They are giving all of us fans a bad name and we are also to blame if we tolerate it!


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Oh it completely is and he's also an easy target for it too. I never hear these same people ripping on Mike Hurt for doing absolutely nothing on the court or Matz missing every other pass to him.
 

RatherBeGolfing said:
Oh it completely is and he's also an easy target for it too. I never hear these same people ripping on Mike Hurt for doing absolutely nothing on the court or Matz missing every other pass to him.
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Well, Hurt is white and from Minnesota. Coffey gets a pass because his dad played for the Gophers. IW is black and from the inner city. He is a playground kid and thats where he belongs (in the eyes of wayyyy too many fans)
 


UpAndUnder43 said:
Well, Hurt is white and from Minnesota. Coffey gets a pass because his dad played for the Gophers. IW is black and from the inner city. He is a playground kid and thats where he belongs (in the eyes of wayyyy too many fans)
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You nailed it.

IW absolutely should be ripped at times, I don't disagree with that at all. He usually tends to be a net negative on the floor. My point and the point of many on here and what you're getting at is IW is the scapegoat on this team right now and probably always will be for a lot of fans. He's an easy target and it doesn't surprise me or shock me. It really does irk me though when he's the only one to be blamed for a lot of this team's struggles when just about everyone else on this roster isn't doing anything out of this world either.
 

RatherBeGolfing said:
You nailed it.

IW absolutely should be ripped at times, I don't disagree with that at all. He usually tends to be a net negative on the floor. My point and the point of many on here and what you're getting at is IW is the scapegoat on this team right now and probably always will be for a lot of fans. He's an easy target and it doesn't surprise me or shock me. It really does irk me though when he's the only one to be blamed for a lot of this team's struggles when just about everyone else on this roster isn't doing anything out of this world either.
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I still want to see how we would roll if we started IW instead of McBrayer. I'm fairly confident our turnovers would go down and we might get off to a hot start. Which is something we rarely seem to do.
 

cjbfbp said:
3.8 to be exact and his assist per 40 is 7.2 so that isn't so bad of a ratio. When you aggressively try to make plays, you're going to get some turnovers (and Washington is the most likely player on the team to dish the ball to a lesser player like Hurt, Omersa, or Stockman so that lowers his conversion rate a bit).
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Coffey is at about 3 turnovers per 40 and Murphy is over 3.5..... Kalscheur is the model citizen on the team at 1.1, but he is not a shot creator, he is a system player that you have to make shots for.
 

RatherBeGolfing said:
You nailed it.

IW absolutely should be ripped at times, I don't disagree with that at all. He usually tends to be a net negative on the floor. My point and the point of many on here and what you're getting at is IW is the scapegoat on this team right now and probably always will be for a lot of fans. He's an easy target and it doesn't surprise me or shock me. It really does irk me though when he's the only one to be blamed for a lot of this team's struggles when just about everyone else on this roster isn't doing anything out of this world either.
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Yep. And I don't want to use grand sweeping statements like "all gopher fans" or "the old fans" or anything like that. Because that isn't the case. For whatever reason some people expected IW to come in and dominate. Others assumed he was a playground player who only plays for himself. Whatever, they can think that. But when race starts to come in it, or upbringing, the line is pretty clear.

Also, and I will say I like IW a lot, his teammates seem to like him. They rally around him. He seems popular. If he is such a garbage teammate who only plays for himself, you wouldn't expect them to like him. Just my 2 cents.
 



UpAndUnder43 said:
Yep. And I don't want to use grand sweeping statements like "all gopher fans" or "the old fans" or anything like that. Because that isn't the case. For whatever reason some people expected IW to come in and dominate. Others assumed he was a playground player who only plays for himself. Whatever, they can think that. But when race starts to come in it, or upbringing, the line is pretty clear.

Also, and I will say I like IW a lot, his teammates seem to like him. They rally around him. He seems popular. If he is such a garbage teammate who only plays for himself, you wouldn't expect them to like him. Just my 2 cents.
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I will admit that I don't follow the basketball board as close as the football board but I have not picked up on anything negative towards Washington due to his race or where he is from. I also don't see him being blamed for all the teams struggles as another poster mentioned.

I know there was a lot of hope when he was recruited that he would be able to come in and make an impact right away but obviously it didn't pan out that way. The frustration in year two is that on a team desperate for a point guard, he still isn't quite ready to be the guy.

Not saying it is not out there but I have clearly missed any of the racist aspects of the criticism of Washington and his play.

He has definitely made some strides in year 2 but he still has a ways to go. If he can find a level of consistency, similar to how he played against Oklahoma State, he will finally turn into the player this team desperately needs him to be.
 

MNVCGUY said:
I will admit that I don't follow the basketball board as close as the football board but I have not picked up on anything negative towards Washington due to his race or where he is from. I also don't see him being blamed for all the teams struggles as another poster mentioned.

I know there was a lot of hope when he was recruited that he would be able to come in and make an impact right away but obviously it didn't pan out that way. The frustration in year two is that on a team desperate for a point guard, he still isn't quite ready to be the guy.

Not saying it is not out there but I have clearly missed any of the racist aspects of the criticism of Washington and his play.

He has definitely made some strides in year 2 but he still has a ways to go. If he can find a level of consistency, similar to how he played against Oklahoma State, he will finally turn into the player this team desperately needs him to be.
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People are using words for him they don't use for anyone else. This is due to where he is from as much as how he plays. There are a lot of negatives to his game. There are a lot of negatives to the games of every single player on the Gophers (yes, even Gabe). But there are multiple threads championing him and criticizing him. He is routinely called selfish (leads the team in assists), lazy (not sure where this comes from), undisciplined (but no one says it about Coffey), a playground player (because he grew up playing basketball on playgrounds, like every other kid on the team), etc. Maybe a few of us are reading too far into these comments but a lot of the negatives focus on how he grew up, his lack of coaching/teaching as a kid, etc. despite him being productive on the offensive end and being MUCH improved defensively. He isn't perfect but if everyone on our team had his assist to turnover ratio, we would have had around 24 assists last night as opposed to 7.

FWIW, I'm a white dude from outstate Minnesota. Isaiah grew up very differently than I did. But I like him, I respect him and if he likes it here, and works hard and does all the right things off the court, then I'm proud to have him as a Gopher. I hope he plays well and goes on to bigger and better things (basketball or otherwise)
 

Maybe its a fascination with the jelly roll more so than practicing the little things?
Maybe it's jacking up three's when its your biggest weakness.
He actually has the athleticism to be better than average but he doesn't like the easy plays.

He is still key to the season. Pitino must not like these qualities less then we do as most of us would start him and hope he can learn while playing. Coffey is more effective on the wing.
 

I’d rather see Washington run the point and McBrick being the 6th man. If he can learn to shoot again he could be instant offense like Quincy Lewis, albeit not as good. Coffey doesn’t look fluid handling the ball, and half the time he drives to the basket and puts up wild shots. I honestly don’t expect this team to be great, but they’re good enough to make the tournament and win a game or two. I had high hopes because of the hype. After watching a few games my excitement has come back to Earth. We lack outside shooting besides GK. Basketball has turned into a shooters game, and we have 1.
 



Love the McBrick and your post is spot on . I am cheering for IW to put the pieces together and agree he has taken more than his share of the criticism.
 

GringaGopher said:
I am cheering for IW to put the pieces together and agree he has taken more than his share of the criticism.
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Part of the reason the criticism for Washington is so loud is that fans feel like the pieces are there to be put together. If a player just isn't good, but they are being as effective as their skills and athleticism allow, then it is the coach's fault if they aren't good enough for their role. With Washington, he seems to have the tools, and for whatever reason just cant get it together consistently.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
Part of the reason the criticism for Washington is so loud is that fans feel like the pieces are there to be put together. If a player just isn't good, but they are being as effective as their skills and athleticism allow, then it is the coach's fault if they aren't good enough for their role. With Washington, he seems to have the tools, and for whatever reason just cant get it together consistently.
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A lot of the criticism around Washington would go away if he would just start making some of his shots. He has been epically bad shooting over the first 8 games of the year and has hit just 4 of 25 from 3. Not a lot better on 2s but at least a little bit. He was really good in the Oklahoma State game but outside of that game has really struggled this year.

He does lead the team in assists but a lot of that is due to the 11 he racked up against Omaha. I think it is easy to see some improvement in his overall game and if the shots start falling he could be a nice player for us but right now he is struggling to find his place in things and his poor shooting is hurting the team.
 

He was a good finisher last year. He was never a shooter. I expect his finishes to return to last years or better. He may never be an outside shooter. Something he can work on in the off seasons.
 

march madness said:
He was a good finisher last year. He was never a shooter. I expect his finishes to return to last years or better. He may never be an outside shooter. Something he can work on in the off seasons.
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Would've thought that outside shooting should've been the one thing he worked on all this past summer. If he did, it sure doesn't look like it's paid off yet. If this kid has any illusion of being a productive PG, he's going to have to knock down some shots.
 

Al Nolen was one of our best all around pg's in the last decade. He was not an outside shooter. But he could play defense, he could set others up, he could get to the rack, and he was really good at drawing fouls. Washington has the skill set even if he never develops a great outside shot.
 

So far his career has been an unmitigated disaster. He has a ways to go before he is a positive on the court. Hopefully he can make that leap over the next 2 years.
 

Former Goofer said:
So far his career has been an unmitigated disaster. He has a ways to go before he is a positive on the court. Hopefully he can make that leap over the next 2 years.
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Unmitigated disaster? 8 games into his sophomore year....OK.
 

Former Goofer said:
So far his career has been an unmitigated disaster. He has a ways to go before he is a positive on the court. Hopefully he can make that leap over the next 2 years.
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If he was a 3 star recruit we all would be quite happy with what he has been able to contribute.
 



Pretty quiet 11 minutes for Isaiah tonight: 2 of 3 from the field with two nice 2-point buckets. No assists, rebounds or turnovers. Had some nice drives and decision making was solid.

He's 16 of 62 on field goals for the year. Oof. Maybe the new formula for now is less minutes like last night and then ease him into more time.
 
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Tim1406 said:
If he was a 3 star recruit we all would be quite happy with what he has been able to contribute.
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That's like saying, if Brian Lawton hadn't been a number one overall draft pick, and the North Stars couldn't otherwise have drafted Steve Yzerman or Pat LaFontaine, we'd have been perfectly happy with his career. The truth is, most people don't even know who Brian Lawton was. That draft selection was ultimately Lou Nanne's downfall, and if Pitino doesn't survive to have a long career as coach here, his signing of Washington and his inability to develop him will have been a key reason, mark my words. Much of the trick of recruiting is knowing what you're getting and having a plan for what to do with them when you get them.
 

Bad Gopher said:
That's like saying, if Brian Lawton hadn't been a number one overall draft pick, and the North Stars couldn't otherwise have drafted Steve Yzerman or Pat LaFontaine, we'd have been perfectly happy with his career. The truth is, most people don't even know who Brian Lawton was. That draft selection was ultimately Lou Nanne's downfall, and if Pitino doesn't survive to have a long career as coach here, his signing of Washington and his inability to develop him will have been a key reason, mark my words. Much of the trick of recruiting is knowing what you're getting and having a plan for what to do with them when you get them.
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I get what you’re saying, but those are 2 completely different scenarios. In one the player has no say in where they go. My point was not to compare to what we missed out on my point was in saying that his production is that of a potentially good (with maturity and basketball development) 3 star recruit. Would people still want his body language better and have him turn the ball over less? Sure. But it is apparent that one day he could be very good and thats not always something found in 3 star recruits.
 

He is a 5 Star at pouting. Bardo called him out last night.
 


bfast said:
Pretty quiet 11 minutes for Isaiah tonight: 2 of 3 from the field with two nice 2-point buckets. No assists, rebounds or turnovers. Had some nice drives and decision making was solid.

He's 16 of 62 on field goals for the year. Oof. Maybe the new formula for now is less minutes like last night and then ease him into more time.
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I get that he is an emotional player but he has to figure out how to control his body language. Pitino has mentioned it multiple times and the color commentator last night brought it up as well. He gets so down when things are not going well for him.
 

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