BballJones
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It's so annoying to see him act like a 5 year old. And since we are on the annoying topic, Stephen Bardo... tough to listen to.
Where my Jelly Fam H8ers at?
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It's so annoying to see him act like a 5 year old. And since we are on the annoying topic, Stephen Bardo... tough to listen to.
Bad Gopher
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He goes to bad body language the instant something bad happens - even things that don't involve him. He just doesn't seem to have the heart and fight that most guys have.
Not sure what his on court demeanor has to do with anything, it's how he performs that matters, he needs to take a cue from Coffey and play with fire and enthusiasm, he can pout when something goes wrong if he comes out playing, he played well on offense last night but boy he has no clue, no fundamentals from a defensive perspective.
HOOP DREAMS
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Court, bench, locker room, practice demeanor matters, a disgruntle player can take it's toll on a team.
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LesBolstad
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How bad is NYC high school basketball? Jelly is a legend in NYC and I can think of 4 current MN high school PG better than IW.
A reminder that the player who I last remember with really poor body language on the court was Dupree McBrayer. And I seem to recall he got into some difficulties off the court - and we love him now, right?
Coffey did not make the trip down the bench to connect with his teammates last night when he picked up his 3rd foul. He just sat.
After IW scored last night the woman behind me complained about him hotdogging. But then Coffey, yet to explode into effectiveness, was given pass on his failed dunk that sky-rocketed 20 feet in the air.
There is something called confirmation bias, which we all are subject to. If you've decided he's a failure, the thngs that register will be in that category and the things that dont fit your view pass by unnoticed. And of course, if you like to be the first one who knew The Truth, it crosses into another kind of perspective.
Coffey did not make the trip down the bench to connect with his teammates last night when he picked up his 3rd foul. He just sat.
After IW scored last night the woman behind me complained about him hotdogging. But then Coffey, yet to explode into effectiveness, was given pass on his failed dunk that sky-rocketed 20 feet in the air.
There is something called confirmation bias, which we all are subject to. If you've decided he's a failure, the thngs that register will be in that category and the things that dont fit your view pass by unnoticed. And of course, if you like to be the first one who knew The Truth, it crosses into another kind of perspective.
UpAndUnder43
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Yeah, NYC produces very few good basketball players.
Being a legend doesn't make him great. He started a movement of kids staying at their schools, not leaving for private schools in other areas. He and his buddies created Jelly Fam. Its more than just him and its more than just him being good.
But I'm sure there aren't any good players in NYC either.
My frustration with Jelly is that he's always seemed more concerned with making the flashy, highlight reel play or pass rather than becoming a solid contributing player on BOTH ends of the court. He's shown no interest in playing defense and is a liability against good, quick point guards. They blow by him and create more foul issues for the bigs inside which we certainly don't need. Not sure how much work he put in over the summer on his jump shooting but no improvement has been evident. Maybe his defensive issues are keeping him on the bench as much as his shooting woes or body language. But when you put them all together, he's a mess. Too bad, because he could be a very important part of this team.
This is exactly right. Mason had terrible body language, too... but we forgave him because he put the ball in the hoop. Coffey broke through yesterday, but before last night, i’d have argued that 30 lbs and a tendency to barrel into the lane instead of finesse were (and still may be) the biggest differences between IW and Coffey.
I’m looking forward to watching Pitino and IW develop together. Kid has way too much talent to run him off.
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Did you seriously just type that Coffey and Washington are the same only that Coffey has 30 pounds on him?
I'll agree with the first part of your statement, and disagree with the second. I think Stephen Bardo is a tremendous color analyst. He's interesting, he's funny, he's knowledgeable.
SelectionSunday
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BTN play by play & color guys
Interesting to hear others' opinions of Bardo. I love him as an analyst, my wife can't stand him. Says he too monotone!
Generally speaking, I think BTN has an excellent stable of play by play (Kevin Kugler, Cory Provus, etc.) and coloar guys (Bardo, Shon Morris, Lisa Byington, Robbie Hummel). ... Jon Crispin is the guy I have a hard time listening to. He's a little too positive for me ("Everything/everyone is great!"), and he clearly likes to hear himself speak. Seems like a pretty good chap, though!
And I still miss Jimmy Jackson.
Interesting to hear others' opinions of Bardo. I love him as an analyst, my wife can't stand him. Says he too monotone!
Generally speaking, I think BTN has an excellent stable of play by play (Kevin Kugler, Cory Provus, etc.) and coloar guys (Bardo, Shon Morris, Lisa Byington, Robbie Hummel). ... Jon Crispin is the guy I have a hard time listening to. He's a little too positive for me ("Everything/everyone is great!"), and he clearly likes to hear himself speak. Seems like a pretty good chap, though!
And I still miss Jimmy Jackson.
Bad Gopher
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That was my interpretation of IW's bench time in the second half last night: his defensive liability. Richard knew that, if they were going to come back in the game, it was going to have to be more than outscoring the Huskers; they were going to have to tighten the D up - which they did, partially by having Washington on the bench.
Thats what I was thinking in reading the first page or so of the posts for last night's game. Many posters jumping to conclusions, whinning etc. Hopefully some of the posters here will grow up as well.
WorkingMyTailOff
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Yep completely agree. The bench was really short in the second half. I’m guessing Murphy and Coffey played almost all 20.
I like Washington, but he has some growing up to do. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, he could one day end up as one of the best point guards we've ever had... but the problem with him is he's from NY... He made himself into a playground legend... which doesn't bode well for college basketball's game. You can see he has the talent, but he's finally facing organized teams. Teams who really play defense. So his playground style will not work in college. Also, his fame has gotten to him... he truly believes he is Russel Westbrook or something, because there are times where he tries to take over the game and hardly sees his teammates at all. He'll run up the court and beat his own teammates, and be out of control or he'll dribble around and shoot the ball without any of his teammates ever touching it. He has to learn his limits, he has to learn his teammates abilities, and he has to what he is good at to help the team. So many times, he'll get subbed in... run up and down the floor shooting bricks and losing the ball by himself, and then get yanked. I think he's a good kid, just someone that let his fame get into his head. He is still young, hopefully he'll figure it out soon. If we had more options, I doubt he sniffs more than 10 minutes a game.
builtbadgers
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There is a huge list of NYC guys doing a great deal better than IW in college right now, but NYC hoops is down right now.
Seriously?
Freshmen
Coffey -- 12.2 ppg, 44.9% FG, 33.7% 3FG, 3.8 Rebs, 1.59 A/TO, 5 Blk, 35 Stls
Washington -- 8.7 ppg, 36.6% FG, 24.1% 3FG, 2.6 Rebs, 1.56 A/TO, 2 Blk, 18 Stls
Sophomores
Coffey (18 games) -- 14.0 ppg, 47.5% FG, 36.8% 3FG, 4.1 Rebs, 1.71 A/TO, 5 Blk, 13 Stls
Washington (9 games) -- 5.1 ppg, 25.8% FG, 16.0% 3FG, 2.1 Rebs, 1.93 A/TO, 0 Blk, 5 Stls
Yep. Same exact player.
JTG
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+1,000,000
Right. No doubt he’s been more productive and has all big ten freshman accolades. Can be a big time player and has shown he’s physical enough at the big ten level.
But he has played just as much hero ball this year and kills a ton of offensive sets by chucking up hopeless shots in the lane. If you watch closely, MANY of those hopeless shots lead to run outs and fast break layups by the other team. Combine that with his tendency to over dribble... the result is often the same: disjointed offensive sets leading to turnovers and bad shots.
My point wasn’t to compare the stats, it’s obviously day and night, but to compare the two in terms of bad offensive possessions caused.
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Now that's an argument I can respect, for the most part. I'll keep a sharper eye out for his failed drives that lead to run outs, because I have no doubt that happens. But I'd ask that you keep an eye out for the number of fouls Coffey draws with those wild drives into the lane. He's attempted 68 FTs this year, second only to Murphy's 72. The third highest number of FTs by a Gopher is 29. Coffey gets to the line, and his 72.1% FT shooting is the highest among regulars.
Please also keep in mind that by Pitino's own admission, he's asked Coffey to play "hero ball." The coach trusts him enough to tell him to go out and take over a game.
By no means am I claiming that Coffey would play point in any kind of sane world. But that's not the world we live in. And even with Coffey's flaws, I don't think he and Washington are anywhere near on the same level in terms of "bad offensive possessions caused."
JTG
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Coffey and Kalscheur started as freshmen. Washington may not even start as a junior...on a team that's thin at point guard.
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I don't know why they don't put Coffey on the block and post him up against the smaller players that are guarding him? That would probably have a high success rate! An entry pass from G K or Pree would be great, if Coffey gets doubled kick it back out to a shooter.
Good comments. You are right about his ability to get to the line, generally. I’m not one to cherry pick stats, but keep in mind 17 of his 68 free throws (~25%) came in a single game. Nonetheless he gets there way more frequently than IW, and his aggressiveness certainly is starting to pay off.
I think I’m just salty about all the complaints I see about IW. Sure he’s not where we all wanted at this point, but there is a ton of bias against him on this board because he’s not from Minnesota. I also think that fans are so used to watching the Twolves or whatever top 5 team is on ESPN that people forget that most college athletes are still learning the game and developing physically. Expectations are out of whack. Team performance and execution should be evaluated critically, but I’m fatigued at the all the negativity here that is focused on 19 year olds (admitting I play a part).
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I think that's a very valid point, and it kind of goes hand-in-hand with something I say often. Most of these contests (big-time college basketball and football) are usually a lot closer than they appear. A few plays often decide the outcome, even if the final score isn't all that close. The great teams are great because they manage to grind out wins when other teams can't, not because their talent is vastly superior across the board.
I think the problem with IW for some people (me, anyway) is that he doesn't often bring that "grind it out" mentality into games. He appears to think points are awarded for style, rather than for actually, you know, scoring. I get the impression he's much more interested in looking like a basketball player than actually being one. (Hence the questionable defense.) That doesn't make him a bad guy. But he needs to realize that what he accomplished in high school means nothing, and that he has to build his reputation as a college player from the ground up. Because he can.
I'd freaking love for IW take control of the point. He's tremendously gifted athletically, and he's proven he's capable. Now he has to prove he actually wants to. For his own sake.
But that goes back to what I said in the first couple sentences. Talent is not necessarily the determining factor. The will to do what you must in order to succeed, that's everything. And seeing young men and women (little more than kids) rise to that challenge, well, that's why we watch, right? 'Cause it's freaking unforgettable when it happens.
JTG
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