Brooks, Holland, Gentry, Richardson

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Pompous Elitist

Pompous Elitist

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Looking for some educated assumptions or guesses for why the coaching staff is doing what they're doing. Some random questions rolling around in my head:

A) Playing games with the depth chart. Why bother?
B) Starting Smith over Brooks and the underutilization of our most explosive player -why? Discipline issue? Someone over at 247 mentioned the position coaches dictate playing time. Poore playing politics?
C) Whats the deal with Holland and Gentry? Hurt or discipline issue? Many have mentioned Holland has great routes (which we need) and Gentry is explosive when healthy. They are not even traveling or suiting up?
D) We played a soft coverage (DBs were 10-12 yards off the line) for a good part of the Iowa game giving up numerous easy passes and yards and getting behind on downs. Given that Iowa has amongst the worst WRs we will see this year, why? We held them to 14 points but I feel we could have held them to even less with how inept they are this season. Again, why? No trust in 5 and 3? This goes along with blitzing on third and long, regularas clockwork without checking the screen. Is there a good reason for doing that?
 

Good questions. I would speculate that D was an effort to not get burned by a big play.
 

CentralGopher said:
Good questions. I would speculate that D was an effort to not get burned by a big play.
Click to expand...

Yes we wanted to stop run and not give up a big pass play. The wide screen plays were scary because one slipped tackle and they would have been gone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

I have no idea why Holland and Gentry are not playing unless they are flat out being outworked in practice. The fact that they are not breaking the two deeps and not traveling is a bit discouraging unless of course they expect both to just transfer and not be here anyways.
Your attitude and how you compete in practice often dictates your opportunity for playing time.

I thought Steven Richardson's work at defensive tackle on Saturday was outstanding. He doesn't have the height but with how quick and fast he is off the ball and what a strong guy he is, I bet he Richardson works his way onto an NFL roster. I would not bet against Richardson doing that when he is done with college. Without all of the holding Iowa did on him and the cheating of constantly grabbing his shoulder pads, he would have had at least three sacks. If the Gophers had won Saturday the game ball should have went to a shared group of Richardson and Celestin. I thought both #13 and #96 had outstanding games against Iowa.

I like the tandem of Rodney Smith and Shannon Brooks on the field in that pistol look with the speed option or the counter action look. Fake to one and give the ball to the other guy, #7 Leidner needs to carry out those fakes better with ducking his head down like he is giving the ball off to the other guy. Smith and Brooks I think can be counted on to dump the football off to, they both have good hands so there really isn't any reason we should not be hitting them with some inside bubble screens off of the two back set and splitting one out with one of the wide receivers.
Both Smith and Brooks have the best straight line speed with the exception of Tyler Johnson. We should be throwing the same WR bubble screens and quick outs that Iowa was throwing at the Gophers on Saturday. Gophers should be working on some wildcat with both Smith and Brooks and the backfield and Leidner splitting out wide. Smith and Brooks can both throw so there really isn't a bad reason to run the half back pass either. You have to get the football in both Rodney Smith and Shannon Brooks hands, both are playmakers with good shiftiness and legitimate tailback speed. They were having some success with the two back set and the speed option and the inside zone runs, not sure why they went away from it. I would like to see them use that look and run some speed option to Brooks outside. I know Madden stuff right, but you could recognize the two back set was working, with the inside zone play to Smith, and they could have used more of it but for some reason the Gophers shied away from that look.
Why don't the Gophers ever use toss sweep plays with Brooks ability to break tackles and with the wide receiver's ability to block you would think they could get outside on a toss sweep to either Smith or Brooks and make some things happen. I think the tackle and tight ends can seal off of that, it would really just depends on if Mitch can make the underhanded toss effectively and accurately. No reason he can't do that.
Really like Brooks and Smith on the field together at the same time, I think they both can do some real damage working in two back sets.
 

I forgot why I added Richardson to the title of the thread: not being listed as starter the first 2 or 3 games (or more). Also, listing players as "out" that play (Rashad Still) or listing players on the two deep that don't see the field (such as Holland -did he even dress, or is he hurt?), Amoako at CB) while others that play are not listed (Hardin, Buford). Perhaps they had this put together the day before it was put out and didn't want to be bothered to update it with Hardin/Buford.

It seems like a mind game all around. Seems like a worthless exercise, or a bad motivational tool.

Anyway, Gopherdude I absolutely love your thinking with the speed option/toss sweep. Get these guys outside the tackles! Brooks will beat his man more often than not and Smith has that sweet spin move and has ability to break tackles. The ratio of inside to outside runs is pretty skewed IMO. Do what you said you'd do Johnson and let's get these athletes in favorable matchups. Also, work on the screen and other short passes. We know coaches love to pressure Leidner.
 


Richardson is a vulnerability in passing downs because of his height.

Have we knocked down a pass this year?
 

Pompous Elitist said:
I forgot why I added Richardson to the title of the thread: not being listed as starter the first 2 or 3 games (or more). Also, listing players as "out" that play (Rashad Still) or listing players on the two deep that don't see the field (such as Holland -did he even dress, or is he hurt?), Amoako at CB) while others that play are not listed (Hardin, Buford). Perhaps they had this put together the day before it was put out and didn't want to be bothered to update it with Hardin/Buford.

It seems like a mind game all around. Seems like a worthless exercise, or a bad motivational tool.

Anyway, Gopherdude I absolutely love your thinking with the speed option/toss sweep. Get these guys outside the tackles! Brooks will beat his man more often than not and Smith has that sweet spin move and has ability to break tackles. The ratio of inside to outside runs is pretty skewed IMO. Do what you said you'd do Johnson and let's get these athletes in favorable matchups. Also, work on the screen and other short passes. We know coaches love to pressure Leidner.
Click to expand...

Unlike the Mason years with the toss and sweep to Barber, Maroney, and others, this Gopher team doesn't pull their guards and tackles for the toss sweep .They try and seal off the edge with the tight end with the slot back leading ( Beebe). Hell, I can remember Eslinger at center even pulling under the Mason offense. This team runs between the guards and tackles, or as said above about sealing off the edge. While I agree, I can't see this team using the toss/ sweep
with Mitch doing a reverse pivot and tossing pitch to either Brooks or Smith. You want a better offense scheme with Brooks and Smith? Hire Mitch Browning as OC and bring back Gordy Shaw as OL coach. If Claeys had either of these two we would be 5-0 right now.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Looking for some educated assumptions or guesses for why the coaching staff is doing what they're doing. Some random questions rolling around in my head:

A) Playing games with the depth chart. Why bother?
B) Starting Smith over Brooks and the underutilization of our most explosive player -why? Discipline issue? Someone over at 247 mentioned the position coaches dictate playing time. Poore playing politics?
C) Whats the deal with Holland and Gentry? Hurt or discipline issue? Many have mentioned Holland has great routes (which we need) and Gentry is explosive when healthy. They are not even traveling or suiting up?
D) We played a soft coverage (DBs were 10-12 yards off the line) for a good part of the Iowa game giving up numerous easy passes and yards and getting behind on downs. Given that Iowa has amongst the worst WRs we will see this year, why? We held them to 14 points but I feel we could have held them to even less with how inept they are this season. Again, why? No trust in 5 and 3? This goes along with blitzing on third and long, regularas clockwork without checking the screen. Is there a good reason for doing that?
Click to expand...

Watch tape from every Minn-Iowa game, it's a Minnesota tradition to play 15 yards off the ball vs Iowa,
even if it's 3rd and 2.....were no closer than 10 off the ball. I was screaming about it in the "In game thread'.
 

ruppertflywheel said:
Unlike the Mason years with the toss and sweep to Barber, Maroney, and others, this Gopher team doesn't pull their guards and tackles for the toss sweep .They try and seal off the edge with the tight end with the slot back leading ( Beebe). Hell, I can remember Eslinger at center even pulling under the Mason offense. This team runs between the guards and tackles, or as said above about sealing off the edge. While I agree, I can't see this team using the toss/ sweep
with Mitch doing a reverse pivot and tossing pitch to either Brooks or Smith. You want a better offense scheme with Brooks and Smith? Hire Mitch Browning as OC and bring back Gordy Shaw as OL coach. If Claeys had either of these two we would be 5-0 right now.
Click to expand...

Mitch Browning is the OL Coach @ Rutgers
 



Pompous Elitist said:
I forgot why I added Richardson to the title of the thread: not being listed as starter the first 2 or 3 games (or more). Also, listing players as "out" that play (Rashad Still) or listing players on the two deep that don't see the field (such as Holland -did he even dress, or is he hurt?), Amoako at CB) while others that play are not listed (Hardin, Buford). Perhaps they had this put together the day before it was put out and didn't want to be bothered to update it with Hardin/Buford.

It seems like a mind game all around. Seems like a worthless exercise, or a bad motivational tool.

Anyway, Gopherdude I absolutely love your thinking with the speed option/toss sweep. Get these guys outside the tackles! Brooks will beat his man more often than not and Smith has that sweet spin move and has ability to break tackles. The ratio of inside to outside runs is pretty skewed IMO. Do what you said you'd do Johnson and let's get these athletes in favorable matchups. Also, work on the screen and other short passes. We know coaches love to pressure Leidner.
Click to expand...

Was wondering why Richardson was on your initial list. I wouldn't get too caught up on whether or not he is listed as the starter, he is clearly a key part of the rotation even if he isn't on the field for the first defensive snap. In regards to the Smith/Brooks thing it is clear they are in a 1/1a situation right now which is fine, the issue against Iowa was that they didn't get enough carries each. Clearly the main issue there is that the offensive line played a terrible game.

Holland and Gentry - seems pretty simple, if they can't crack our depth chart at receiver (one of the weakest in the Big Ten) they clearly aren't good enough and/or can't stay healthy. At this point in their Gopher career those two are firmly in the bust camp and I really don't expect us to get much out of either of them, if we do it will be surprising.
 

Never understood why Kill never retained Gordy Shaw. He clearly had a proven record and he was "here" to be rehired. Too much loyalty to previous staff I guess.
 


#2Gopher said:
Never understood why Kill never retained Gordy Shaw. He clearly had a proven record and he was "here" to be rehired. Too much loyalty to previous staff I guess.
Click to expand...

Probably because Gordie was fired along with the rest of Mase's staff 4 years before Kill was hired. Also he burned his bridges here with how he acted after not being retained by Brewster.
 



I respectfully disagree with those who say that Smith is as good as Brooks. I think Rodney is a great back, but Brooks is NFL caliber talent, and the best player on our offense. Brooks should be getting around 66% of the carries, IMO. He has the ability to house one every time, something our offense desperately needs.

Also, while I was pleased that they finally had some formations with both backs in the game, I didn't really like the formation itself. It still allows teams to put 8 or 9 in the box and totally key in on the run. I think it would be much more effective to split Rodney out in the slot a la Corey Clement/Melvin Gordon. That way Smith can be used in jet sweeps (please God no more jet sweeps for Woli), or some quick bubble passes that teams seem to use with success against us every week. It would force defenses to get that safety/linebacker out of the box and account for our best skilled players. Add Lingen back as a TE and we have three viable threats in different places on the field.

Whatever the case, I am praying that Johnson never lets Brooks go as under-utilized as he did last week. A true travesty.
 


Buck_Buchanan said:
Mitch Browning is the OL Coach @ Rutgers
Click to expand...

Actually, he is an assistant at Morgan State. He has had a tough time staying somewhere for a consistent amount of time. He has bounced around a lot.

Gordie Shaw is in his second year at CSU-Pueblo, a D 2 school. He has really bounced around. He has been at South Dakota, Hawaii, Texas State, back to Idaho where he was before the U of M, and maybe even some other places.
 

SPEGOPHER said:
I respectfully disagree with those who say that Smith is as good as Brooks. I think Rodney is a great back, but Brooks is NFL caliber talent, and the best player on our offense.
Click to expand...

This is the correct answer. Would be silly to not agree.


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I don't get the Brooks thing either. They brought him back before Penn St. ran him a bit... but it has been spotty. Yet he has shown he is doing well but we just don't see him often as you'd expect.
 

The depth chart means nothing. It is fun for fans to look at, but it means absolutely nothing. Nothing. Colorado published one this year with fictional characters for the Michigan game. If that doesn't prove the point, nothing will.

It is well known that IG2 almost transferred after last year. Little doubt in my mind he is gone after this year. That seems like a loss based on what we have been told about him, but considering none of us have seen it - likely not much of a loss.

My best guess on MHjr5 is that his hands haven't gotten any better. You need to have really good hands to be a receiver when ML7 is the QB.

No excuse what-so-ever for SB23 getting so few carries. He averaged 5.5 yds/carry against IA and is above that on the year and his career. As silly as I think the "fire the coaching staff now" talk is - this is the one argument that may actually support it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Looking for some educated assumptions or guesses for why the coaching staff is doing what they're doing. Some random questions rolling around in my head:

A) Playing games with the depth chart. Why bother?
B) Starting Smith over Brooks and the underutilization of our most explosive player -why? Discipline issue? Someone over at 247 mentioned the position coaches dictate playing time. Poore playing politics?
C) Whats the deal with Holland and Gentry? Hurt or discipline issue? Many have mentioned Holland has great routes (which we need) and Gentry is explosive when healthy. They are not even traveling or suiting up?
D) We played a soft coverage (DBs were 10-12 yards off the line) for a good part of the Iowa game giving up numerous easy passes and yards and getting behind on downs. Given that Iowa has amongst the worst WRs we will see this year, why? We held them to 14 points but I feel we could have held them to even less with how inept they are this season. Again, why? No trust in 5 and 3? This goes along with blitzing on third and long, regularas clockwork without checking the screen. Is there a good reason for doing that?
Click to expand...

Gentry is hurt as always. They are limiting Brooks because of his foot. Don't want to over work him. He'll get more carries as he continues to get stronger. Claeys doesn't play head games with his players. He just doesn't understand offense that well and is relying on Johnson who appears to think like Limey. It's a pity that our few talented offensive players are unable to thrive cause of the ugly system and the limitations of other players like our linemen.
 

DoubleAlum said:
Gentry is hurt as always. They are limiting Brooks because of his foot. Don't want to over work him. He'll get more carries as he continues to get stronger. Claeys doesn't play head games with his players. He just doesn't understand offense that well and is relying on Johnson who appears to think like Limey. It's a pity that our few talented offensive players are unable to thrive cause of the ugly system and the limitations of other players like our linemen.
Click to expand...

I don't get the Brooks thing though. Why bring him back in the Colorado State game at all if you're concerned about his foot?
 

Goodness. the U is wasting a fortune in paying all those coaches when just reading the GH posts would have had us 5/0.
 


There were rumblings in years past that we didn't have the type of linemen to run outside zone plays/pin and pull, etc effectively. Are we still hamstrung in that regard? Weyler can run, 77 can run. Outside zone seems tailor made for the undersized/under strength guys we have on the two deep. What am I missing?

Also, old doc this is a MN forum. While we don't really appreciate your contributions, why don't you head back across the border.
 

gopherdudepart2 said:
I have no idea why Holland and Gentry are not playing unless they are flat out being outworked in practice. The fact that they are not breaking the two deeps and not traveling is a bit discouraging unless of course they expect both to just transfer and not be here anyways.
Your attitude and how you compete in practice often dictates your opportunity for playing time.

I thought Steven Richardson's work at defensive tackle on Saturday was outstanding. He doesn't have the height but with how quick and fast he is off the ball and what a strong guy he is, I bet he Richardson works his way onto an NFL roster. I would not bet against Richardson doing that when he is done with college. Without all of the holding Iowa did on him and the cheating of constantly grabbing his shoulder pads, he would have had at least three sacks. If the Gophers had won Saturday the game ball should have went to a shared group of Richardson and Celestin. I thought both #13 and #96 had outstanding games against Iowa.

I like the tandem of Rodney Smith and Shannon Brooks on the field in that pistol look with the speed option or the counter action look. Fake to one and give the ball to the other guy, #7 Leidner needs to carry out those fakes better with ducking his head down like he is giving the ball off to the other guy. Smith and Brooks I think can be counted on to dump the football off to, they both have good hands so there really isn't any reason we should not be hitting them with some inside bubble screens off of the two back set and splitting one out with one of the wide receivers.
Both Smith and Brooks have the best straight line speed with the exception of Tyler Johnson. We should be throwing the same WR bubble screens and quick outs that Iowa was throwing at the Gophers on Saturday. Gophers should be working on some wildcat with both Smith and Brooks and the backfield and Leidner splitting out wide. Smith and Brooks can both throw so there really isn't a bad reason to run the half back pass either. You have to get the football in both Rodney Smith and Shannon Brooks hands, both are playmakers with good shiftiness and legitimate tailback speed. They were having some success with the two back set and the speed option and the inside zone runs, not sure why they went away from it. I would like to see them use that look and run some speed option to Brooks outside. I know Madden stuff right, but you could recognize the two back set was working, with the inside zone play to Smith, and they could have used more of it but for some reason the Gophers shied away from that look.
Why don't the Gophers ever use toss sweep plays with Brooks ability to break tackles and with the wide receiver's ability to block you would think they could get outside on a toss sweep to either Smith or Brooks and make some things happen. I think the tackle and tight ends can seal off of that, it would really just depends on if Mitch can make the underhanded toss effectively and accurately. No reason he can't do that.
Really like Brooks and Smith on the field together at the same time, I think they both can do some real damage working in two back sets.
Click to expand...

Great stuff.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
There were rumblings in years past that we didn't have the type of linemen to run outside zone plays/pin and pull, etc effectively. Are we still hamstrung in that regard? Weyler can run, 77 can run. Outside zone seems tailor made for the undersized/under strength guys we have on the two deep. What am I missing?

Also, old doc this is a MN forum. While we don't really appreciate your contributions, why don't you head back across the border.
Click to expand...

I've been missing and begging for this since Mason. We've gotten so hellbent on blocking like Sconnie that we've become inept on
the offensive line for years now... need more guard pulling and pancake some LBers. Use our quick guys to trek and go.
 

More to chew on: counter off "rocket" toss sweep motion

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/oKIGLvpq9vw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

Pompous Elitist said:
More to chew on: counter off "rocket" toss sweep motion

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/oKIGLvpq9vw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Click to expand...

Very well designed play. Love misdirection. Granted it helped that they were playing Kansas.
 

Brooks - He is coming back from injury. My guess is that there is probably a bit of a conditioning issue, there often is with guys who are returning from a foot/leg injury. Brooks should have gotten the ball more, but I am not surprised at all that he wasn't immediately made into a work horse.

Holland - He has the drops and has been outplayed by the guys higher than him on the depth chart.

Gentry - Injury prone and has been outplayed by people higher than him on the depth chart.

Richardson - I am not sure what the question with Richardson is. He plays all the time and is one of our best players.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Brooks - He is coming back from injury. My guess is that there is probably a bit of a conditioning issue, there often is with guys who are returning from a foot/leg injury. Brooks should have gotten the ball more, but I am not surprised at all that he wasn't immediately made into a work horse.
Click to expand...

This could mean nothing, but I have noticed that he is not as jovial/jumpy after a play and going back to the huddle as he was before injury. He's more subdued, like he could be in a bit of pain still. And honestly this could explain the lack of touches as well.
 

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