All Things Gophers Basketball 2017 Recruiting Thread

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GopherOhana said:
190 lbs

http://ausahoops.com/high-school-hoops/rankings/class-of-2017/
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Seriously, it puzzles me how these posts are coming into college so skinny and frail. And honestly, in my opinion, its a tell tale sign in many cases of the kid's work ethic when it comes to their craft. Nowadays, these kids have so many resources available to them when it comes to building strength/size/muscle/conditioning, and any post who is hoping to be physically ready to make the highest impact they possibly can right off the bat at the collegiate level needs to be in the gym lifting weights and getting in good condition. I don't care what type of player you are, there's no player who wouldn't benefit and put themselves in a better position to succeed by adding size and muscle. No excusable reason guys like this Australian dude, Jericho, Nate Reuvers, Goanar Mar can't put in work in the weight room and with their diets to get in great shape right off the bat in college and come in physically fit and ready. It's really a breath of fresh air to hear about HS players like the Hurt bros who were (and have) been putting in the work to get in the best shape possible to be an impactful player. Of course, their are many others out there, but not nearly enough who are going on to play college ball.
 

GameDay said:
Seriously, it puzzles me how these posts are coming into college so skinny and frail. And honestly, in my opinion, its a tell tale sign in many cases of the kid's work ethic when it comes to their craft. Nowadays, these kids have so many resources available to them when it comes to building strength/size/muscle/conditioning, and any post who is hoping to be physically ready to make the highest impact they possibly can right off the bat at the collegiate level needs to be in the gym lifting weights and getting in good condition. I don't care what type of player you are, there's no player who wouldn't benefit and put themselves in a better position to succeed by adding size and muscle. No excusable reason guys like this Australian dude, Jericho, Nate Reuvers, Goanar Mar can't put in work in the weight room and with their diets to get in great shape right off the bat in college and come in physically fit and ready. It's really a breath of fresh air to hear about HS players like the Hurt bros who were (and have) been putting in the work to get in the best shape possible to be an impactful player. Of course, their are many others out there, but not nearly enough who are going on to play college ball.
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Could you not say the same about walk ons and why they don't work harder to earn a scholarship?
 

GameDay said:
Seriously, it puzzles me how these posts are coming into college so skinny and frail. And honestly, in my opinion, its a tell tale sign in many cases of the kid's work ethic when it comes to their craft. Nowadays, these kids have so many resources available to them when it comes to building strength/size/muscle/conditioning, and any post who is hoping to be physically ready to make the highest impact they possibly can right off the bat at the collegiate level needs to be in the gym lifting weights and getting in good condition. I don't care what type of player you are, there's no player who wouldn't benefit and put themselves in a better position to succeed by adding size and muscle. No excusable reason guys like this Australian dude, Jericho, Nate Reuvers, Goanar Mar can't put in work in the weight room and with their diets to get in great shape right off the bat in college and come in physically fit and ready. It's really a breath of fresh air to hear about HS players like the Hurt bros who were (and have) been putting in the work to get in the best shape possible to be an impactful player. Of course, their are many others out there, but not nearly enough who are going on to play college ball.
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Is it harder to put on weight at that size? Because it does seem like big men seem to be too skinny much more often than being too fat. Plus you can probably get away with being a less refined basketball player, both in terms of skills and optimal size/muscle mass, if you're 6'11". Height alone will make you a desirable prospect at that size, even if you're rail thin and your skills are lacking.
 


GameDay said:
Seriously, it puzzles me how these posts are coming into college so skinny and frail. And honestly, in my opinion, its a tell tale sign in many cases of the kid's work ethic when it comes to their craft. Nowadays, these kids have so many resources available to them when it comes to building strength/size/muscle/conditioning, and any post who is hoping to be physically ready to make the highest impact they possibly can right off the bat at the collegiate level needs to be in the gym lifting weights and getting in good condition. I don't care what type of player you are, there's no player who wouldn't benefit and put themselves in a better position to succeed by adding size and muscle. No excusable reason guys like this Australian dude, Jericho, Nate Reuvers, Goanar Mar can't put in work in the weight room and with their diets to get in great shape right off the bat in college and come in physically fit and ready. It's really a breath of fresh air to hear about HS players like the Hurt bros who were (and have) been putting in the work to get in the best shape possible to be an impactful player. Of course, their are many others out there, but not nearly enough who are going on to play college ball.
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I saw Epperson last weekend. While he is slender, I would say he weighs quite a bit more than 190. He's not the physical specimen that John is or the athlete that Sims is, but he is a very nice prospect. He's tall and long and moves well, also has good touch around the bucket. He likes to pass and is pretty good doing that in high/low situations and can step out and make a perimeter shot. I suspect he will be in high demand over the remainder of the summer and into the fall.
 

GameDay said:
Seriously, it puzzles me how these posts are coming into college so skinny and frail. And honestly, in my opinion, its a tell tale sign in many cases of the kid's work ethic when it comes to their craft. Nowadays, these kids have so many resources available to them when it comes to building strength/size/muscle/conditioning, and any post who is hoping to be physically ready to make the highest impact they possibly can right off the bat at the collegiate level needs to be in the gym lifting weights and getting in good condition. I don't care what type of player you are, there's no player who wouldn't benefit and put themselves in a better position to succeed by adding size and muscle. No excusable reason guys like this Australian dude, Jericho, Nate Reuvers, Goanar Mar can't put in work in the weight room and with their diets to get in great shape right off the bat in college and come in physically fit and ready. It's really a breath of fresh air to hear about HS players like the Hurt bros who were (and have) been putting in the work to get in the best shape possible to be an impactful player. Of course, their are many others out there, but not nearly enough who are going on to play college ball.
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Dude, you literally know nothing about these kids' work ethic. Sometimes kids just can't gain weight. I know multiple kids in my area who ate close to 4000 calories a day and worked out every day and they couldnt gain weight at all. And they're 5'10-6'2 not 6'11. And once a lot of those same kids went to college and got on a college meal and workout plan they found it much easier to gain weight.

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GophFan52 said:
Dude, you literally know nothing about these kids' work ethic. Sometimes kids just can't gain weight. I know multiple kids in my area who ate close to 4000 calories a day and worked out every day and they couldnt gain weight at all. And they're 5'10-6'2 not 6'11. And once a lot of those same kids went to college and got on a college meal and workout plan they found it much easier to gain weight.

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False. I'd wager I know a heck of a lot more than you. In fact, I know some of these guys and what their actual training/practice plan is, and I'd bet you don't, so I have a basis for my comment. I'm not flinging crap at a wall and seeing what sticks.
Putting in 45 minutes in the weight room 2-3 days a week IS NOT going to help a kid gain muscle. They need to put in CONSISTENT work in the gym (6-12 hours of weight training per week). And no, that does not mean looking at their phone half of the time, doing ten or so sets, and then bouncing out of the gym.
There's a certain amount of calories (after exercise) that you need for weight maintenance, and going roughly 500 calories over maintenance daily should yield a pound of weight gain per week, given that we are talking about a healthy and well functioning kid. For 16-18 year old basketball players, this number should range between 3,000-4,500. A high metabolism isn't an excuse for not making progress. Not gaining weight and muscle? The athletes must look themselves in the mirror. They either need to eat even more, and/or up their weight training regiment. Look at what Mike Hurt is doing and the results he's getting. Don't try arguing calorie intake and weight gain with me either, because what I've just stated is basic science.
Coming into college significantly underweight as a post or forward (in most cases) is a major detriment to a player in his acclimation to the college game. Too many players are coming into college shocked by the basic strength/conditioning program that the team implements, and this knowledge and training should not be brand new to them. If only AAU taught fundamentals and strategy, and HS's implemented effective weight training/diet for their players, kids (posts especially) would come into college with less to adapt to since there is already so much that these freshman must learn.
 

GameDay said:
False. I'd wager I know a heck of a lot more than you. In fact, I know some of these guys and what their actual training/practice plan is, and I'd bet you don't, so I have a basis for my comment. I'm not flinging crap at a wall and seeing what sticks.
Putting in 45 minutes in the weight room 2-3 days a week IS NOT going to help a kid gain muscle. They need to put in CONSISTENT work in the gym (6-12 hours of weight training per week). And no, that does not mean looking at their phone half of the time, doing ten or so sets, and then bouncing out of the gym.
There's a certain amount of calories (after exercise) that you need for weight maintenance, and going roughly 500 calories over maintenance daily should yield a pound of weight gain per week, given that we are talking about a healthy and well functioning kid. For 16-18 year old basketball players, this number should range between 3,000-4,500. A high metabolism isn't an excuse for not making progress. Not gaining weight and muscle? The athletes must look themselves in the mirror. They either need to eat even more, and/or up their weight training regiment. Look at what Mike Hurt is doing and the results he's getting. Don't try arguing calorie intake and weight gain with me either, because what I've just stated is basic science.
Coming into college significantly underweight as a post or forward (in most cases) is a major detriment to a player in his acclimation to the college game. Too many players are coming into college shocked by the basic strength/conditioning program that the team implements, and this knowledge and training should not be brand new to them. If only AAU taught fundamentals and strategy, and HS's implemented effective weight training/diet for their players, kids (posts especially) would come into college with less to adapt to since there is already so much that these freshman must learn.
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good stuff as always game day, good post
 



GameDay said:
False. I'd wager I know a heck of a lot more than you. In fact, I know some of these guys and what their actual training/practice plan is, and I'd bet you don't, so I have a basis for my comment. I'm not flinging crap at a wall and seeing what sticks.
Putting in 45 minutes in the weight room 2-3 days a week IS NOT going to help a kid gain muscle. They need to put in CONSISTENT work in the gym (6-12 hours of weight training per week). And no, that does not mean looking at their phone half of the time, doing ten or so sets, and then bouncing out of the gym.
There's a certain amount of calories (after exercise) that you need for weight maintenance, and going roughly 500 calories over maintenance daily should yield a pound of weight gain per week, given that we are talking about a healthy and well functioning kid. For 16-18 year old basketball players, this number should range between 3,000-4,500. A high metabolism isn't an excuse for not making progress. Not gaining weight and muscle? The athletes must look themselves in the mirror. They either need to eat even more, and/or up their weight training regiment. Look at what Mike Hurt is doing and the results he's getting. Don't try arguing calorie intake and weight gain with me either, because what I've just stated is basic science.
Coming into college significantly underweight as a post or forward (in most cases) is a major detriment to a player in his acclimation to the college game. Too many players are coming into college shocked by the basic strength/conditioning program that the team implements, and this knowledge and training should not be brand new to them. If only AAU taught fundamentals and strategy, and HS's implemented effective weight training/diet for their players, kids (posts especially) would come into college with less to adapt to since there is already so much that these freshman must learn.
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Yes I realize an hour 2-3 days a week isn't going to do anything. The kids I'm talking about are kids that did 2-3 hours in the weight room a day 5 days a week at least, plus cardio, sprints, and plyos. The fact of the matter is, every person is different. Just because they aren't gaining tons of weight does not mean they aren't physically fit or working in the weight room. And yes you like what Mike Hurt is doing, HE IS IN COLLEGE and on a college meal and weight room plan. That's my point. In high school coming into this summer he was still a twig. But that doesn't mean he wasn't working.? And I would argue that coming into college for basketball underweight isn't as big of a deal as it used to be. Basketball isn't as physical as a game as it used to be. You don't have to be massive to be a successful post player. But i agree that a lot players should be in the weight room more and to many rely on their natural talent to coast through high school. There is always more they could be doing.

But really, I'm not trying to argue about how to gain weight and what not I know what you've said is correct I'm not stupid, I'm just trying to say that just because the kid is skinny doesn't mean he has a bad work ethic. Ben Simmons was a big dude coming into college like 230-240(?) I think and what's one knock scouts had against him? His work ethic.
 

GophFan52 said:
Yes I realize an hour 2-3 days a week isn't going to do anything. The kids I'm talking about are kids that did 2-3 hours in the weight room a day 5 days a week at least, plus cardio, sprints, and plyos. The fact of the matter is, every person is different. Just because they aren't gaining tons of weight does not mean they aren't physically fit or working in the weight room. And yes you like what Mike Hurt is doing, HE IS IN COLLEGE and on a college meal and weight room plan. That's my point. In high school coming into this summer he was still a twig. But that doesn't mean he wasn't working.? And I would argue that coming into college for basketball underweight isn't as big of a deal as it used to be. Basketball isn't as physical as a game as it used to be. You don't have to be massive to be a successful post player. But i agree that a lot players should be in the weight room more and to many rely on their natural talent to coast through high school. There is always more they could be doing.

But really, I'm not trying to argue about how to gain weight and what not I know what you've said is correct I'm not stupid, I'm just trying to say that just because the kid is skinny doesn't mean he has a bad work ethic. Ben Simmons was a big dude coming into college like 230-240(?) I think and what's one knock scouts had against him? His work ethic.
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We're not as far off as I first thought. Absolutely, strength doesn't automatically equate to work ethic, or lack there of, just because of differences in genetics. One player might have to start in their strength program at 6'7, 170 lbs for example while someone who is more naturally filled out might have a head start at 6'7, 210, while player A could have much higher drive and motivation than player B. But there's no excuse for these high profile players (especially with skill and raw talent) not to do all they can to get in the best physical condition possible to help out their programs and make an impact from day 1. I've seen guys who thought they've been proactive in trying to add strength and weight finally start making smart training and diet decisions and finally seing results at the rate of 15-20 pounds of development in 6 months, which is especially obtainable in the novice stage of weight training for these 15-18 year olds.

Coach Pitino always harps in his blogs about getting his guys to add size in the offseason. Wouldn't it be nice if recruits took this seriously before getting to college so they could focus more of their time in the gym working on abilities like their shot, handles, post up moves, and knowledge of the system instead of trying to pack on 20-30 pounds in the summer (alot of that bad weight in that short of a time span anyways)? That's all I'm saying. I've seen way too many guys not lift period (or with little training experience) before getting to college, getting bullied in practices by teammates. It's especially prominent in the big ten.
 

Go4 said:
good stuff as always game day, good post
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Thanks! I just think it's important to point out how important diet and training are in addition to in game skills in order for these HS players to be ready to adapt to the college game. For example, Reuvers is blessed to have the face up game and shooting that he does, because thats the only way he's going to be able to contribute at the college level unless he gains weight and gets stronger. See how important it is in his case? He's going to get broke in half if he goes into B1G play at his size. But if he adds 25 pounds, you're talking about a guy who will be able to face up, shoot, vie for rebounds, and assert himself as a force in the paint. You're talking about a dang scary and well-rounded player for the bad guys if that happens.
 




GameDay said:
Seriously, it puzzles me how these posts are coming into college so skinny and frail. And honestly, in my opinion, its a tell tale sign in many cases of the kid's work ethic when it comes to their craft. Nowadays, these kids have so many resources available to them when it comes to building strength/size/muscle/conditioning, and any post who is hoping to be physically ready to make the highest impact they possibly can right off the bat at the collegiate level needs to be in the gym lifting weights and getting in good condition. I don't care what type of player you are, there's no player who wouldn't benefit and put themselves in a better position to succeed by adding size and muscle. No excusable reason guys like this Australian dude, Jericho, Nate Reuvers, Goanar Mar can't put in work in the weight room and with their diets to get in great shape right off the bat in college and come in physically fit and ready. It's really a breath of fresh air to hear about HS players like the Hurt bros who were (and have) been putting in the work to get in the best shape possible to be an impactful player. Of course, their are many others out there, but not nearly enough who are going on to play college ball.
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It's also harder to put weight on in high school, first off your metabolism is faster than it's going to be, often kids, especially males don't stop growing until their 20's. I grew three inches in college. Also, depending on how well off a kid is, most high school kids aren't exposed to the level of nutrition that they get in college or elite strength and conditioning coaches that Major basketball programs would employ. Also, if I had to guess, someone like Michael Hurt got on a plan from the coaches once he committed. Pitino or any other coach isn't going to waste resources on a kid that hasn't committed.
 

Tim Duncan was an absolute twig when he was a freshman at Wake Forest... Obviously he has no work ethic. I can understand what some of you are saying about wanting Sims to be in better shape but I think it is also incredibly unfair to make the assumption that he is not a hard worker based off of that.

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b55d9780484fba5544d538e333590794.jpg


Besides, based off that picture, he looks pretty good.

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Frank Grimey Grimes said:
Tim Duncan was an absolute twig when he was a freshman at Wake Forest... Obviously he has no work ethic. I can understand what some of you are saying about wanting Sims to be in better shape but I think it is also incredibly unfair to make the assumption that he is not a hard worker based off of that.

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I agree, it would be ideal, but he's also been a late bloomer, which tells me that he is a hard worker and persistent. If he started out at 190 and is now up to 210, then he's putting in the work as well, along with his body just naturally filling out as he gets older
 


Sims looks decently filled out in the picture and he still has his entire senior year.

By the way, 6'9", 6'11" with the afro!
 

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I think it's easy for us to project how we think we'd handle it if we were in their shoes. 15 or 16 year old kids often live in the moment, even if they have long term goals that seem to be within reach. It's tough to make a teenager understand what we see and it's tough for us to remember/realize how stupid we were at that age.
 

go_gophers said:
I think it's easy for us to project how we think we'd handle it if we were in their shoes. 15 or 16 year old kids often live in the moment, even if they have long term goals that seem to be within reach. It's tough to make a teenager understand what we see and it's tough for us to remember/realize how stupid we were at that age.
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As they say youth is wasted on the young
 

GameDay said:
False. I'd wager I know a heck of a lot more than you. In fact, I know some of these guys and what their actual training/practice plan is, and I'd bet you don't, so I have a basis for my comment. I'm not flinging crap at a wall and seeing what sticks.
Putting in 45 minutes in the weight room 2-3 days a week IS NOT going to help a kid gain muscle. They need to put in CONSISTENT work in the gym (6-12 hours of weight training per week). And no, that does not mean looking at their phone half of the time, doing ten or so sets, and then bouncing out of the gym.
There's a certain amount of calories (after exercise) that you need for weight maintenance, and going roughly 500 calories over maintenance daily should yield a pound of weight gain per week, given that we are talking about a healthy and well functioning kid. For 16-18 year old basketball players, this number should range between 3,000-4,500. A high metabolism isn't an excuse for not making progress. Not gaining weight and muscle? The athletes must look themselves in the mirror. They either need to eat even more, and/or up their weight training regiment. Look at what Mike Hurt is doing and the results he's getting. Don't try arguing calorie intake and weight gain with me either, because what I've just stated is basic science.
Coming into college significantly underweight as a post or forward (in most cases) is a major detriment to a player in his acclimation to the college game. Too many players are coming into college shocked by the basic strength/conditioning program that the team implements, and this knowledge and training should not be brand new to them. If only AAU taught fundamentals and strategy, and HS's implemented effective weight training/diet for their players, kids (posts especially) would come into college with less to adapt to since there is already so much that these freshman must learn.
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Do you think they should spend any time in a different gym working on their basketball skills?
 

GameDay said:
Seriously, it puzzles me how these posts are coming into college so skinny and frail. And honestly, in my opinion, its a tell tale sign in many cases of the kid's work ethic when it comes to their craft. Nowadays, these kids have so many resources available to them when it comes to building strength/size/muscle/conditioning, and any post who is hoping to be physically ready to make the highest impact they possibly can right off the bat at the collegiate level needs to be in the gym lifting weights and getting in good condition. I don't care what type of player you are, there's no player who wouldn't benefit and put themselves in a better position to succeed by adding size and muscle. No excusable reason guys like this Australian dude, Jericho, Nate Reuvers, Goanar Mar can't put in work in the weight room and with their diets to get in great shape right off the bat in college and come in physically fit and ready. It's really a breath of fresh air to hear about HS players like the Hurt bros who were (and have) been putting in the work to get in the best shape possible to be an impactful player. Of course, their are many others out there, but not nearly enough who are going on to play college ball.
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Thats pretty poor reasoning to assume because a kid is skinny he must have poor work ethic. There are many factors that lead to a kid being skinny not just work ethic. Maybe the kid has incredibly good conditioning and runs the floor very well?. His weight alone doesnt tell the whole story when it comes to a recruit. Some kids also take longer to fill out as well so using weight to say a recruit is poor isnt very well thought out.
 

CentralGopher said:
Thats pretty poor reasoning to assume because a kid is skinny he must have poor work ethic. There are many factors that lead to a kid being skinny not just work ethic. Maybe the kid has incredibly good conditioning and runs the floor very well?. His weight alone doesnt tell the whole story when it comes to a recruit. Some kids also take longer to fill out as well so using weight to say a recruit is poor isnt very well thought out.
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Not what I've said at all. Read what I've written before making lazy assumptions. What I'm stating is, some of these guys are seriously lacking in strength and are underweight and still refuse to step foot in the weight room. Take Jericho for example. Massive potential, lots of development left to be done, but refuses to lift until college. That's going to set him back big time at the start of his big ten career. It's an avoidable problem to an extent too, but he's not making the decision to get in the weight room, so how bad does he want it?? Immense talent, but he's not doing ALL he possibly can to put it together at the moment. Putting all that aside, I'm more excited about his prospects than any other in-state player and he's going to be loads of fun to watch once he does get into a college S&C program and fills out. Mad potential!

I don't care what the guys weigh, but I (and the college coaches) sure as heck want to see progress in these guys and see their weight and strength going up. Validate all the hard work they've been putting in. A 17 year old who is 6'10, 200 lbs who a year later weighs in around the same weight...that's what I have a serious problem with. Not addressing flaws and weaknesses isn't going to do the recruit any favors in their development. Coming into college with 135-155 lb benchpresses is not acceptable in any form for a D1 men's basketball player.
 

justthefacts said:
Do you think they should spend any time in a different gym working on their basketball skills?
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What do you think? Of course. It's three-fold. Put in work on the court, put in work in the weight room, put in work with your diet. All of those things should be expected at minimum from a basketball recruit who takes his/her craft seriously and wants to be the best player he/she can be.
 

GameDay said:
Not what I've said at all. Read what I've written before making lazy assumptions. What I'm stating is, some of these guys are seriously lacking in strength and are underweight and still refuse to step foot in the weight room. Take Jericho for example. Massive potential, lots of development left to be done, but refuses to lift until college. That's going to set him back big time at the start of his big ten career. It's an avoidable problem to an extent too, but he's not making the decision to get in the weight room, so how bad does he want it?? Immense talent, but he's not doing ALL he possibly can to put it together at the moment. Putting all that aside, I'm more excited about his prospects than any other in-state player and he's going to be loads of fun to watch once he does get into a college S&C program and fills out. Mad potential!

I don't care what the guys weigh, but I (and the college coaches) sure as heck want to see progress in these guys and see their weight and strength going up. Validate all the hard work they've been putting in. A 17 year old who is 6'10, 200 lbs who a year later weighs in around the same weight...that's what I have a serious problem with. Not addressing flaws and weaknesses isn't going to do the recruit any favors in their development. Coming into college with 135-155 lb benchpresses is not acceptable in any form for a D1 men's basketball player.
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Just curious, how do you know the workout regimens of any of these kids?
 

mnhoopboy said:
Just curious, how do you know the workout regimens of any of these kids?
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Well that'd give it away then! ;)
You're going to have to trust me and take my word for it. Or not, I guess. Doesn't hurt my feelings either which way. :)
 


GameDay said:
Not what I've said at all. Read what I've written before making lazy assumptions. What I'm stating is, some of these guys are seriously lacking in strength and are underweight and still refuse to step foot in the weight room. Take Jericho for example. Massive potential, lots of development left to be done, but refuses to lift until college. That's going to set him back big time at the start of his big ten career. It's an avoidable problem to an extent too, but he's not making the decision to get in the weight room, so how bad does he want it?? Immense talent, but he's not doing ALL he possibly can to put it together at the moment. Putting all that aside, I'm more excited about his prospects than any other in-state player and he's going to be loads of fun to watch once he does get into a college S&C program and fills out. Mad potential!
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You say that he refuses to go to the weight room but judging by the picture someone posted before I'm not sure I believe that. It's one thing to be skinny and just be able to see people's muscles but he's actually pretty defined. I don't know, looks like he has been in the weight room at least a little. Maybe not as much as he could be but he's definitely put in some work in the weight room.

I'm also not so sure I buy your bench press thing either. For one, the muscles that the bench press works aren't really as important to basketball players as they are to football players. Also, basketball players especially lanky posts typically are going to struggle more bench pressing because of their longer arms. So I feel like bench press is the one core lift that coaches wouldn't worry as much about for basketball players. But maybe I'm wrong and just "throwing crap at a wall and hoping it sticks" again.
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