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Ogee Ogilthorpe

Ogee Ogilthorpe

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The meltdown in Madison is happening at way too fast of a pace. At the rate he's going, Bret Bielema will be out of a job in less than 18 months.

I've been saying for 2 years that Bielema at UW is GOOD for the Gophers and the rest of the BT. In my estimation, he needs a good 2, perhaps even 3 more years to do irreparable damage to the Badger program. If BB gets canned before the start of the '10-'11 season, I'm not sure he will have done enough damage to cripple them for any significant period of time.

I can't figure out what's going to be his ultimate undoing; the results on the field or the completely embarassing things he says off the field. It almost seems like he's trying to get fired.

With any luck, BB will pull out a nice 8-4 record next year, perhaps save his job for another year or two. That seems unlikely though, with 6-7 defensive starters graduating and losing 3/5th's of the offensive line as well. Next year could be pretty lean for the folks in Madison.

How long he lasts at UW is significant for two reasons: first, he can run that program even further into the ground with every season he's at the helm. Secondly, the longer he stays and weakens the program, the less attractive of a job it will be to any prominent coaching candidate.

Regardless of how long he lasts, these are clearly two programs heading in opposite directions.
 

Here's what we can do to help keep BB at Wisconsin so he can run it into the ground:
Call the WI Athletic Department, and tell them that BB is exactly the hard nosed, beer drinking prick we need running Wisconsin football, and then back it up with a pledged donation. They get enough of these calls and they'll keep him for sure.
 


BB=bust 12-1, 9-4, 7-6. Next year they can only hope they will be 6-6 and get the Motor City bowl.
 

dlw4gophers said:
BB=bust 12-1, 9-4, 7-6. Next year they can only hope they will be 6-6 and get the Motor City bowl.
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I'm really hoping that he manages to maintain a 7-5 record and keep his job for at least another year.
 



This year was a bad year. Some inexplicable losses and some horrific QB play.

Bielema is under a lot of fire, but the recruiting class is very good and there are a lot of talented kids in the program. The problem is QB and if that is not solved, all of the other issues are moot. That is the serious question heading into next year. I know it is fun to see us go 7-6 and have a bad year, but when one looks at the talent in the program compared to the QB play, it is quickly evident that the world is not exactly ending in Madison. For example, we will not need to start freshman or redshirt freshman to fill in on the offensive line. We have seasoned replacements with game experience ready to go there. The line is not going to miss a beat.

If I were a Gopher fan, I would be very concerned that about letting a QB as bad as Sherer beat you on some crucial plays. I would also be worrying about Kansas.

Good luck in the bowl game.
 

GVBadger -- What does your QB situation look like for next year? Is there anybody in the program who can overtake Sherer?
 

If I were a Badger fan.....

I'd stay on my own site rather than trolling others. Your QB situation doesn't look any better for next year.
 



Hmmmm... Actually the same could be said...

>>If I were a Gopher fan, I would be very concerned that about letting a QB as bad as Sherer beat you on some crucial plays. I would also be worrying about Kansas.<<

No disrespect, but if I were a Badger fan, I'd be very concerned that a Gopher team loaded with freshmen, RS freshmen, and sophomores along the offensive line (not to mention Weber and Decker not even close to 100%) went into Camp Randall and almost came out with a win against a Badger defense with mostly upper classmen.

In all honesty, with something along the lines of 19 out of 22 returning starters next year for the Rodents, I don't exactly expect the Badger game to be the toughest one on the schedule.

This wasn't meant to spark a big pissing contest. I'm merely saying that I'm sticking (and feeling more comfortable than ever) with my notion from a few years ago that BB in Madison is all the Gophers can ask for at this point.

These comments have nothing to do with BB's ability as a football coach. I really couldn't tell you if he's a good coach or not. It has to do with character and I think that's a commodity of which BB is in short supply. Perhaps I'm being naive but I really don't think a LOT of parents and recruits appreciate what kind of guy BB is. It's likely cost the Badgers a few recruits already and will certainly cost them more in the future. The emergence of programs like Minny, MSU, and even Illinois will also cost the Badgers recruits that they are used to landing in the past.

Like I said, I'm not trying to get into some verbal barrage back and forth, but I really do think these are two programs heading in opposite directions. I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time...
 

GVBadger said:
This year was a bad year. Some inexplicable losses and some horrific QB play.

Bielema is under a lot of fire, but the recruiting class is very good and there are a lot of talented kids in the program. The problem is QB and if that is not solved, all of the other issues are moot. That is the serious question heading into next year. I know it is fun to see us go 7-6 and have a bad year, but when one looks at the talent in the program compared to the QB play, it is quickly evident that the world is not exactly ending in Madison. For example, we will not need to start freshman or redshirt freshman to fill in on the offensive line. We have seasoned replacements with game experience ready to go there. The line is not going to miss a beat.

If I were a Gopher fan, I would be very concerned that about letting a QB as bad as Sherer beat you on some crucial plays. I would also be worrying about Kansas.

Good luck in the bowl game.
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I am going to argue that the badgers are not getting the players in the places the need them the most. You can fill a team full of defense line talent, but that does not solve the QB/WR/RB problem.

If Montee Ball is not a stud, they could be hurting bad if Clay gets hurt.

It seems to me that Wisky is void of the stars they used to have in the offense. Clay is good, but he is not the same ability of a Dane or Bennett. Or even some of the other guys of recent years.

They don't have a star WR, and the QBs don't even seem serviceable.

I would be worried if I was a badger fan.
 

Mostly reasonable questions.

The "actions" of the coach has not hurt recruiting. We have a very good class coming in, which is ranked virtually the same as the Gophers class per rivals. The difference between classes ranked from 15-40 is very small, so recruiting has not changed substantially. Alvarez had one top ten class and it was his worst. Had most classes in the 20's and 30's as we do now.

Clay is a special player and was only a red shirt freshman. When he finally "gets it", he will be dymanic. Hill is supposed to be back and Zach Brown put up 200 plus on the Gophers at the Dome so he is far from a pedestrian 3rd back. If you read the press clippings, Montee Ball is supposed to be special, but who knows. Dayne was a once in a lifetime back and Bennett, Calhoun and Davis were all of similar talent. The one thing lacking with the Badger backs right now is speed. When combining that with poor QB play, then you have problems.

If you want to claim how young the Gophers were that is fine, but our top 4 receivers were freshman or sophomores and they all flashed very good ability. Speed is not the issue with any of them. The issue with the receivers is QB play. All of our running backs will be back. Our top tight end will be back and considering Beckum basically did not play, we will be fine there. We will start 5 offensive lineman that have played, including returning two starters. The cupboard is certainly not bare.

As for QB, there is a redshirt freshman they are high on, but who knows. If we don't have anyone that can beat out Sherer, you can pencil in 7-5 or 6-6 and a meaningless bowl and move on to 2010. That is the only question that matters for 2009. There is more then enough talent to win 9 games if there is competent QB play.

Finally, I don't expect people on this board to be unhappy about our season. I just think the sky is falling posts are about over the top, as are the Bielema is the classless blah blah, losing recruits, blah blah, stuff. As for being classless, all I have is hearsay. As for the recruiting stuff, the rankings don;t show that to be the case.

One more thing. As for the trolling, I grew up in the Twin Cities and have lived here for 30 years of my life. I like to follow the team even though I no longer root for them and your board is interesting. Deal with it.
 

Valid, well thought out response...

You make some good points. I'll at least address the following:

>>If you want to claim how young the Gophers were that is fine, but our top 4 receivers were freshman or sophomores and they all flashed very good ability.<<

This really is a horrible "youth" argument. There is LIGHT YEARS difference between freshmen and sophomore O-linemen compared to freshmen and sophomore position players.

It's almost impossible to overcome youth on the offensive line, not to mention a lack of continuity. The problem with the Gophers' offensive line this year can be attributed almost as much to continuity issues as youth. I don't follow the depth chart as closely as some but I would venture to say that 10 different guys (almost exclusively freshmen and sophs) started on the O-line this year.

Particularly at the college level, a freshman can come in and contribute at WR or RB, it happens at every program in the country.

With offensive linemen, you might be able to plug a fresh or soph in between a couple of upperclassmen and get away with it but not from one end of the line to the other.

Plain and simple, I would MUCH rather start a freshman QB behind a veteran O-line than a senior, veteran starter at QB behind a young inexperienced line any day of the week. Sherrer may not be Joe Montana, but he enjoyed the luxury of having an experienced offensive line and a top notch running game and the Badgers still struggled. Not a good sign...

Wisconsin may very well have QUALITY (perhaps VERY good quality) offensive linemen stepping up to replace the departing seniors but they won't have the same continuity and familiarity as they enjoyed this year.

Who knows... we could both be dead wrong. It'll be interesting to see how things play out.
 



GVBadger said:
Mostly reasonable questions.

The "actions" of the coach has not hurt recruiting. We have a very good class coming in, which is ranked virtually the same as the Gophers class per rivals. The difference between classes ranked from 15-40 is very small, so recruiting has not changed substantially. Alvarez had one top ten class and it was his worst. Had most classes in the 20's and 30's as we do now.

Clay is a special player and was only a red shirt freshman. When he finally "gets it", he will be dymanic. Hill is supposed to be back and Zach Brown put up 200 plus on the Gophers at the Dome so he is far from a pedestrian 3rd back. If you read the press clippings, Montee Ball is supposed to be special, but who knows. Dayne was a once in a lifetime back and Bennett, Calhoun and Davis were all of similar talent. The one thing lacking with the Badger backs right now is speed. When combining that with poor QB play, then you have problems.

If you want to claim how young the Gophers were that is fine, but our top 4 receivers were freshman or sophomores and they all flashed very good ability. Speed is not the issue with any of them. The issue with the receivers is QB play. All of our running backs will be back. Our top tight end will be back and considering Beckum basically did not play, we will be fine there. We will start 5 offensive lineman that have played, including returning two starters. The cupboard is certainly not bare.

As for QB, there is a redshirt freshman they are high on, but who knows. If we don't have anyone that can beat out Sherer, you can pencil in 7-5 or 6-6 and a meaningless bowl and move on to 2010. That is the only question that matters for 2009. There is more then enough talent to win 9 games if there is competent QB play.

Finally, I don't expect people on this board to be unhappy about our season. I just think the sky is falling posts are about over the top, as are the Bielema is the classless blah blah, losing recruits, blah blah, stuff. As for being classless, all I have is hearsay. As for the recruiting stuff, the rankings don;t show that to be the case.

One more thing. As for the trolling, I grew up in the Twin Cities and have lived here for 30 years of my life. I like to follow the team even though I no longer root for them and your board is interesting. Deal with it.
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take off the blinders

you were destroyed in the big 10

undressed by an average FSU team

have no qb and lost all your senior talent and everything is rosy

HOMER
 

GVBadger said:
Mostly reasonable questions.

As for being classless, all I have is hearsay. As for the recruiting stuff, the rankings don;t show that to be the case.

One more thing. As for the trolling, I grew up in the Twin Cities and have lived here for 30 years of my life. I like to follow the team even though I no longer root for them and your board is interesting. Deal with it.
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Bielema showed his true colors early on. Classless = Bielema

http://rmaly.blogspot.com/2005/07/things-come-up-big-for-bielema-he_27.html
 

I think the QB they are waiting for was the Tennessee POY last year so he might be alright. Some publications had him as the best QB to sign with a BT team before Pryor committed later on. Hope it doesn't work out that way.
 

Not sure where you got rosy out of that post, so let me try again.

We have a serious issue at QB, which if it does not get solved, will hamper us from winning more then 7 games for the foreseeable future.

Besides that, we return 12 starters including 7 on offense, both kickers and have a very nice recruiting class coming in. Next year the serious issue besides QB will be the defensive line.

No matter how hard you wish, the Badgers are not going away and the cupboard is not bare.

If the QB issue is solved, we will be just fine. If not, I would be shocked if we won more then 7 games next year. None of the 7 wins would be what I would consider quality wins.
 

GVBadger said:
Not sure where you got rosy out of that post, so let me try again.

We have a serious issue at QB, which if it does not get solved, will hamper us from winning more then 7 games for the foreseeable future.

Besides that, we return 12 starters including 7 on offense, both kickers and have a very nice recruiting class coming in. Next year the serious issue besides QB will be the defensive line.

No matter how hard you wish, the Badgers are not going away and the cupboard is not bare.

If the QB issue is solved, we will be just fine. If not, I would be shocked if we won more then 7 games next year. None of the 7 wins would be what I would consider quality wins.
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you are underestimating how big of a sieve your defense has become....it's not the offense is that is going to set you back

you cant stop anyone
 

4th in pass defense in the Big 10, 5th in rushing defense. Keep trying though.

Of course, maybe I should be worried. If anyone can identify a bad defense it would be a Gophers fan.
 

GVBadger said:
4th in pass defense in the Big 10, 5th in rushing defense. Keep trying though.

Of course, maybe I should be worried. If anyone can identify a bad defense it would be a Gophers fan.
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the question was how are you going to stop people........and it somehow turned to the gophers

you have defensive issues like never before

good luck
 

Wisconsin will have one of the best defensive backfields in the Big Ten next year, although they lose All-Big Ten CB Allen Langford. Aaron Henry is coming back from injury so he should be able to replace Langford. They will have to replace two senior Linebackers in Levy and Casillas. I believe they're going to move starting MLB to OLB and put St. Jean at MLB and Sorensen (MN product) at the other spot. They have 3 linebacker recruits they're high on coming in, and a possible 4th in Jordan Barnes (former Michigan commit) if he ends up committing to Wisconsin. As stated, the DL will be a big problem if they can't replace the 3 senior starters from this year with solid guys. They don't have many good D tackles at all next year. I believe they'll be fine at DE though. They have one of the better DE's in the B10 returning in Schofield and they'll be able to fill the other one because they redshirted three guys last year at DE (Including Brendan Kelly, who should get some good PT there) and they're bringing in some highly touted D-ends as well... As for the QB spot they have redshirt freshman Curt Phillips who was a 4 star recruit last year, and also have a QB from Illinois Jon Budmayr who had an offer from ND before committing to UW. Got injured during the year so who knows how fast he can return. If they can't find a replacement for Sherer, they'll be in trouble. Their schedule isn't nearly as tough as this year's though so who knows.
 

Interesting take on it Blocked Punt. I personally think the Gophers and Badgers are two programs going in completely different directions. If you are talking about LB recruits that a team is high on fitting in to your depth chart you are screwed unless they are Juco recruits. The frequency of a freshman starting or even having an impact at LB in the Big 10 is pretty low. Even Laurinitis didn't start until the last game of the season for OSU and I think he was All American as a sophomore.

I tend to believe the following analysis of your '09 Depth Chart from "Badger in Ohio Valley".

http://buckyville.yuku.com/topic/14542/t/2009-Roster-and-Depth-Chart.html

Looking down the roster, I see plenty of holes....

QB - If Phillips or Budmyer can't win this job in a run away, we're in for a long season, and everything else I type here really doesn't matter.

RB - Strongest position with Clay, Brown and Hill, and will Montee Ball coming in (probably redshirting).

WR - I think we have the players there, but don't have the QB to get the ball to them. Kyle Jefferson was a non-factor this season, and I think QB play took his game away from us. He wasn't able to stretch teams deep because no one could get him the ball. But the talent is there from Jefferson, Toon, Gilreath and Anderson at a minimum, with several other guys who can factor in.

TE - Kendricks returns to join Graham. Should be solid.

OL - Carimi and Moffett return. You have to hope that the ***** OL prospect, Oglesby can give you something. I would expect the line to be at least nearly as good, as I think the UW line this year was overrated anyway.

DL - this is where it gets scary. O'Brien Schofield is the only returning starter, and only real returning depth other than Dan Moore. Nzegwu and Brenden Kelly probably factor in at DE. You have to hope that Westphal (a **** DE recruit) can give them something. Jeff Stehle has had moments. And then there is the mysterious JJ Watt, a MAC transfer who we can only hope is a big lift to the DL. Lots of names that don't stand out that are already on the roster....Anthony Mains, Erick Breidis Peter Konz, Chris Gardner. And of course, the numerous 2009 DL recruits who all look promising - Muldoon, Gilbert, Kohout, Harris, Dippel. TONS of question marks on DL. PAGING JOHN PALERMO! YOU ARE NEEDED AT 1225 MONROE STREET! Yeah, longshot, I know.

LB - McFadden is the only returning starter. He looked great against the MAC portion of the schedule. But in the Big Ten, he didn't stack up as a MLB. Hopefully, OLB is better for him, but he didn't fare well today! Culmer St. Jean has to make significant strides to be a positive factor. Blake Sorenson was solid in the OOC play he got. Gotta hope he's got something in him. Perhaps Hodge returns to the lineup and gets a step quicker. Michael Taylor and Kevin Rouse are names....anyone heard anything good about them? LOTS OF QUESTIONS AGAIN!

CB - The season on defense may hinge on Aaron Henry returning to form. He's the best candidate to play well at CB. I hope he can make it back better than ever. Devin Smith has a chance to be a good player. Goins - you don't know with his academics. Brinkley is decent. I'd hope he can drastically improve, OR we could get an upgrade on him. Gotta hope Marcus Cromartie (had a Florida offer), who is redshirting can play like his cousin. What can Fenelus do? Again, TONS of Q's at CB.

S - This position has been shit for several years now. Lots of variety to choose from - physically gifted guys like Carter. Physical players like Valai. Decent coverage guys like Pleasant. Whatever Maragos is? But this position HAS to improve. I like how tough Valai plays just like anyone else. But he's got holes in his game...they all do. SOMEBODY, please step up!

The entire defense and QB are questions. Lots to answer. Next year is going to be interesting. Looking at the schedule, I can't say I see 6 wins today. Lots to improve on, and our guys have their work cut out for them.

-----------------------------------------------------------
I particularly like the follow up from BurbankBadger: "Great analysis. Not a pretty fucking picture but great analysis. My eggs are in Phillips' basket. Budmyer not being able to play much this year isn't going to help his cause. Strangly, I think we'll be okay at LB but everyone else on D scares the crap out of me."
 

DL - this is where it gets scary. O'Brien Schofield is the only returning starter, and only real returning depth other than Dan Moore. Nzegwu and Brenden Kelly probably factor in at DE. You have to hope that Westphal (a **** DE recruit) can give them something/


Tyler Westphal according the Badger fans is transferring to NDSU so he can play right away, so YEAH!! We rescued a kid from that craphole madison!!
 

I don't think you get it. NDSU blows.

Quit bumping threads that are a year and a half old.
 

Westphal is a very good kid, good student, nice young man. He's been injury riddled his entire time in Madison. He's buried on the depth chart, and is transferring so he can play. NDSU is a good spot for him. If he's healthy, he should play right away.
 



What happened here? UW and Minnesota were supposed to be going in opposite directions. Then they go 10-3 and we have another bad year. And now going into 2010 they are primed for another great season and we are thought to be the 10th or 11th best program in the conference. I want to go back to 2008.
 

The Gophers Have More Talent But Less Experience On Defense - Better TEAM = WINS

Rotundo said:
What happened here? UW and Minnesota were supposed to be going in opposite directions. Then they go 10-3 and we have another bad year. And now going into 2010 they are primed for another great season and we are thought to be the 10th or 11th best program in the conference. I want to go back to 2008.
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Don't expect anyone to tag along. Like Samuel Jackson said in THE NEGOTIATOR, "Things Are Not What They Seem."
 


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