Does the U lack the alumni support to have on a great football team?

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gopherdudepart2 said:
We are from the same undergraduate era GO4INLALALAND. Football under Niels Haselmo was not important and campus the majority of students back then were commuters. Couple that with the fact that the campus was dirty, blighted and not well maintained, with some crime until Yudof came on board and you know why only about 30% even finished there degrees back then. The buses were like cattle cars so full of people, yet nobody seemed interested in anything but Hockey or basektball.
We each only lived in the dorms one year each (Frontier or Pioneer) because that is all we could afford. All of us had to work and got very little support financial aide wise from school or parents. God bless Jim Wacker he tried but we played no defense in those days and there was lucky if there were 800 to 1,000 student ticket holders than, I think one year there were 812 of us. They begged us to by season tickets for $30 bucks one year and were always giving away free food or tickets to try and drum up support.
I always thought the Students even in the Dome under Mason didn't realize how good they had it because of all of the horrible and poor football we had to watch. Couple that with in those days the U did very little for campus life or for helping Alumni find internships or jobs and you can see why people from that era mostly don't connect to the U or Gopher football.

I will admit me and my younger and older brother all Alumns were not Gopher football fans growing up because we didn't have cable and we didn't watch college football at all and the Gophers were not followed by family just the Vikes and pro sports. There is a whole generation growing up in the 1980's to middle 1990's lost alumni wise and fanbase wise that didn't grow up following the Gophers or do not connect back to the U, because campus life and football was so poor back then and no source of pride. Couple that with Bucky starting to go to Rose Bowls and we lost a lot of potential fans even in the Twin Cities.
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All that makes sense, but it's not just a problem of the distant past. Now throw in the few times when they had the chance to expand the fan base and didn't:

- Mason's 7-1 start in 2002 followed by losing 4 out of the last 5. They did beat Arkansas in the bowl game but after 4 straight losses the public didn't care.
- That beautiful 6-0 start in 2003, ranking 17th in the country, a big lead against MI and then pissing that lead away. They followed it up by not showing-up until Half Time the next week at Michigan State. Even beating Oregon in the Sun Bowl felt anti-climatic because they got blown out at Iowa to end the regular season.
-In 2004 they were 5-0, rated 13th in the country having beat NW and Penn State. They went into MI.... and lost by 3. They lost 5 of the last 7, including losses to IA and WI.
- 2008 Brewster goes 7-1. Even Reusse goes on the radio and says that he "could have been wrong about Brewster." He wasn't. They lost their last 5, including a 35-32 loss to WI and that (%($^$%!!!^^ blowout to IA in the last game in the damn Dome.
- 2013 Kill gets off to a great start. Goes 8-2 with victories against NE and Penn State. Follows that up be losing the last 3 games, including the Badgers.
- 2014 Another good year under Kill and a great start. They go 6-1 with their only loss to one of the best teams in the country. They hammer Iowa to get to 8-2 before losing 3 out of their last 4 including yes, a loss to WI where they held a lead at halftime.

It's not the Dome years or "old people holding onto a distant past". It's a consistent feeling of disappointment and seasons, even under Kill, where the final few games of the season never leave a good taste in the mouth.

That said, I still look forward to next season's Season Tickets arriving in the mail every Summer. And nope, that's not rational is it?
 

Iceland12 said:
All that makes sense, but it's not just a problem of the distant past. Now throw in the few times when they had the chance to expand the fan base and didn't:

- Mason's 7-1 start in 2002 followed by losing 4 out of the last 5. They did beat Arkansas in the bowl game but after 4 straight losses the public didn't care.
- That beautiful 6-0 start in 2003, ranking 17th in the country, a big lead against MI and then pissing that lead away. They followed it up by not showing-up until Half Time the next week at Michigan State. Even beating Oregon in the Sun Bowl felt anti-climatic because they got blown out at Iowa to end the regular season.
-In 2004 they were 5-0, rated 13th in the country having beat NW and Penn State. They went into MI.... and lost by 3. They lost 5 of the last 7, including losses to IA and WI.
- 2008 Brewster goes 7-1. Even Reusse goes on the radio and says that he "could have been wrong about Brewster." He wasn't. They lost their last 5, including a 35-32 loss to WI and that (%($^$%!!!^^ blowout to IA in the last game in the damn Dome.
- 2013 Kill gets off to a great start. Goes 8-2 with victories against NE and Penn State. Follows that up be losing the last 3 games, including the Badgers.
- 2014 Another good year under Kill and a great start. They go 6-1 with their only loss to one of the best teams in the country. They hammer Iowa to get to 8-2 before losing 3 out of their last 4 including yes, a loss to WI where they held a lead at halftime.

It's not the Dome years or "old people holding onto a distant past". It's a consistent feeling of disappointment and seasons, even under Kill, where the final few games of the season never leave a good taste in the mouth.

That said, still look forward to next season's Season Tickets arriving in the mail every Summer. And nope, that's not rational is it?
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Yes me and my younger brother still buy season tickets, we have been down with the Sickness of college football since they hired coach Mason in 1996. That Michigan loss in 2003 seemed like a program turning loss, a time warp and lost opportunity that could have changed a lot of things. Once you get hooked on seeing the Gophers rise to the top you don't want to give up for whatever reason. There has been a lot of letdowns and disappointment, but there have been some surprise wins and moments of pride to like taking the Pig away and Sean Hoffman deflecting that last second pass in 1998 to get to run around on the field at Kinnick with fellow Gopher fans and enjoy the first bowl game in what was it a long dang time. The upset of Ohio State in 2000, that was a lot fun still have the pictures of that road trip.
You would have to think that some day there is going to be some payoff eventually, because they the staff, and players work to hard and try to hard, for there not to be. Them getting the on campus stadium and now the Facility's upgrade passed is going to go a long ways in changing things, the campus culture, and attitude, it already has.

I still think all of that will make it that much sweeter when they finally do get over the hump and win a Big 10 title for the first time since 1967. I was never a Brewster fan from the time he laid down, flat on his belly against Bowling Green for that final kick. That first game coach Kill coached against New Mexico State was a stinker, not a pretty game, a bad loss, but I could see some organization and the way the coaches were speaking to the players on the sideline that made me believe they knew what they were doing as they were starting to make some adjustments and not get beat by the same thing over and over again. Again not a great start but you could see things were going to be different.

I believe in coach Kill and this staff, they seem like solid football minds, that have a plan and are working their plan. The price increases make it hard to maintain any extra tickets, but I still look forward to every fall and the season tickets arriving in the mail. Hopefully the worm will turn before we all take that final dirt nap.
 

go4rob said:
I was listening to some of the callers in to CCO yesterday morning and most of them were downright mean in their comments about the Gophers and Coach Kill. I felt like calling in and asking why the pro teams in this town get an automatic "pass" from all the fans. How many Super Bowls trophies do the Vikings own? ZERO, how many Stanley Cups do the Wild own. ZERO! How many NBA championships to the T-Wolves have? Everyone is super pumped about the upcoming season. How have the Twins been doing lately? Even this year, they didn't make the playoffs, yet everybody in town is talking about what a GREAT year they had. So the Gophers lose one to Nebraska after they had won the past 2 years and everyone is talking about how they stink, their Coach doesn't know what he is doing, their Coaching staff is "stupid". I even heard a caller talk about he can never ever support the Gophers because they always lose (what about the last 2 years?) And another caller complained about all the tax dollars that are going into the new Athletic Village project to support losing programs. He said why should we taxpayer support these programs? This is also laughable because there are NO TAX DOLLARS going into the new project. Say what you want, but all of these comments reflect common views of our Gopher programs among the average sports fans in the state. They will LOVE their pro teams, no matter what, but the Gophers, that's another story.
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What's funny are people who feel that way about the U of MN but not about the Vikings stadium. The U is our state's largest school by a long shot. The school brings in thousands of people every year from all over the country and world (students and employees). The new Vikings stadium is going to make the owner from New York millions of dollars.
 

gopherdudepart2 said:
Yes me and my younger brother still buy season tickets..
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Again all well said but I wish more of those "good moments" had happened at Home.

Oh, that wasn't a question to you. I meant that "(I)still look forward to next season's Season Tickets arriving in the mail every Summer. And nope, that's not rational is it?"

My bad. :eek:
 

Rog said:
Some additional Thoughts -

Now look at the Vikings - yesterdays game had every seat filled and the seat cost was more.
With out statistic knowledge - A larger percentage of non college grads
Viking fans buy tickets even if they know that the Vikes may lose as many games as they win. (Of course they expect more, but).
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There are Vikings fans that literally spend a huge portion of their disposable income on tickets, tailgating etc. They don't go on vacations - this is their primary hobby.
They plan the whole weekend around Vikings home games and treat it like a huge party. That's not going to happen, and the U certainly is not going to encourage drunken revelry like the NFL does.
 


Gopher Placenta said:
I attended around the same time you did and share some of your perceptions.

Here's what I saw:
1. The U was a place you went to attend classes. It wasn't a community. It was a commuter campus.

2. The U campus was a dump until Yudof arrived. Simply filthy. The buildings on old campus had unbelievable deferred maintenance issues. They closed down a big chunk of Nicholson at one point due to asbestos concerns. Jones Hall was slated for demolition at one point. Coffman had that terrible deteriorating '70s makeover; the interior was dark and dank.

3. Students at the U didn't perceive it as a prestigious, "destination" university. Some of this was due to the admissions policies at the time. It was seen as a place that anybody could attend, even if that wasn't the truth. For many of the best students, the U was a fallback, safety school. Wisconsin was seen as far more prestigious and with a much better campus atmosphere.

Another poster mentioned an interviewee who expressed the view that the U was mediocre or just ok. I know a lot of alums who felt that way. In fact, a very successful friend and Carlson alum from the '90s once described the school as exactly that: mediocre. This is supposed to be one of the U's most prestigious schools.

It also took 6 or 7 years for a large number of students to get their degrees. Go look at the 4-year graduation rate for students who arrived in that era. It's not pretty.

4. In terms of football, it was just plain bad (Wacker years). I lived in Sanford one year, the football dorm, and nobody cared about the football players. The idea of the "big man on campus" was pretty passe.


There's a view often expressed on these boards that lack of support for U athletics is the result of administrative neglect over several decades. This is true to a point, but I think the problems the U has with alumni support are much deeper than that.
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1. Absolutely right. There was no campus life, because 75% of the students lived at home. Part of campus life is going to football games.

2. Not only did Yudof beautify the campus, he started to encourage living on or near campus. He got Roy Wilkins Hall built, and the student apartment boom started when he was president. The fact that they named a building of student housing for him tells you what he means to campus life.

3. The tightening of admission standards is great. We are not a safety school anymore. That once again goes to quality of campus life.

4. The marginal Minnesota student is now going to UND, NDSU or a MNSCU school. The question is, how do we get school loyalty to trump state loyalty? Wisconsin & Iowa have no trouble. The big M during Welcome Week is starting to help.
 

Ski U Mah Gopher said:
1. Absolutely right. There was no campus life, because 75% of the students lived at home. Part of campus life is going to football games.

2. Not only did Yudof beautify the campus, he started to encourage living on or near campus. He got Roy Wilkins Hall built, and the student apartment boom started when he was president. The fact that they named a building of student housing for him tells you what he means to campus life.

3. The tightening of admission standards is great. We are not a safety school anymore. That once again goes to quality of campus life.

4. The marginal Minnesota student is now going to UND, NDSU or a MNSCU school. The question is, how do we get school loyalty to trump state loyalty? Wisconsin & Iowa have no trouble. The big M during Welcome Week is starting to help.
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2. I feel that Yudof isn't getting enough credit for starting this trend. The New Brickhouse doesn't even get discussed without making it worthwhile to live on campus, Beautiful U Day, etc.

4. I'm only half joking when I say to shut down or demote their D1 hockey programs. All the other UW system schools outside of Milwaukee and Kenosha are either overgrown trade schools or D3 colleges, so if anyone at those schools is interested in big-time D1 sports they're heading to Mad-town. Whereas all the MnSCU schools all have their own D1 hockey program to cheer for, with the U being the obvious heel.
 

GopherRock said:
2. I feel that Yudof isn't getting enough credit for starting this trend. The New Brickhouse doesn't even get discussed without making it worthwhile to live on campus, Beautiful U Day, etc.

4. I'm only half joking when I say to shut down or demote their D1 hockey programs. All the other UW system schools outside of Milwaukee and Kenosha are either overgrown trade schools or D3 colleges, so if anyone at those schools is interested in big-time D1 sports they're heading to Mad-town. Whereas all the MnSCU schools all have their own D1 hockey program to cheer for, with the U being the obvious heel.
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Green Bay is also D1, but no Football. Same with Marquette, which is a big time basketball school.
As far as the D1 hockey programs, no not all MnSCU schools have hockey. Moorhead, Winona and SWMSU do not. And they can't demote them, as there is no D2 hockey any longer, and as D2 schools, they can no longer drop to D3 hockey.
 

GopherRock said:
4. I'm only half joking when I say to shut down or demote their D1 hockey programs. All the other UW system schools outside of Milwaukee and Kenosha are either overgrown trade schools or D3 colleges, so if anyone at those schools is interested in big-time D1 sports they're heading to Mad-town. Whereas all the MnSCU schools all have their own D1 hockey program to cheer for, with the U being the obvious heel.
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This is one of the sillier takes I've ever seen on Gopher Hole.
 



Oh, wow - you guys have struck a nerve. Before I begin, I'll say that I've had a few beers (tip of the cap to Dr. Don). So, if my tone is off, please forgive.

What gets me about the U is that it abandoned its top students. When it came time for me to select schools, I remember wanting to go to the U, but the problem was that I also wanted the chance at elite tech (I majored in EE). Elite tech doesn't interview at the U. Nor does elite finance, elite consulting - essentially all the things top students go to college for. So I left and paid a lot more.

Then came law school. I would have gone to the U if it had been the quality of say, UMich: mid-grade top, but not top-top. I'd have saved money and still had the chance I wanted. But, no. Abandoned again. So, off I went to pay for top-top... because I couldn't even get mid-grade top. Basically, the U has never been there for me, and I am not alone.

And here's the worst part: the twin cities could easily support a top university - we just choose not to. That's the maddening part, most places simply couldn't do it. We simply choose not to.

Flash forward. It was time for my eldest to go to college. Yep. Not the U. UMich. Because he needed the opportunity for elite tech, elite finance, elite consulting, you get it. And when my younger one goes off... again, it won't be the U. This has got to stop. We need a university that supports the top, as well as the middle.
 

touchdownvikings said:
Oh, wow - you guys have struck a nerve. Before I begin, I'll say that I've had a few beers (tip of the cap to Dr. Don). So, if my tone is off, please forgive.

What gets me about the U is that it abandoned its top students. When it came time for me to select schools, I remember wanting to go to the U, but the problem was that I also wanted the chance at elite tech (I majored in EE). Elite tech doesn't interview at the U. Nor does elite finance, elite consulting - essentially all the things top students go to college for. So I left and paid a lot more.

Then came law school. I would have gone to the U if it had been the quality of say, UMich: mid-grade top, but not top-top. I'd have saved money and still had the chance I wanted. But, no. Abandoned again. So, off I went to pay for top-top... because I couldn't even get mid-grade top. Basically, the U has never been there for me, and I am not alone.

And here's the worst part: the twin cities could easily support a top university - we just choose not to. That's the maddening part, most places simply couldn't do it. We simply choose not to.

Flash forward. It was time for my eldest to go to college. Yep. Not the U. UMich. Because he needed the opportunity for elite tech, elite finance, elite consulting, you get it. And when my younger one goes off... again, it won't be the U. This has got to stop. We need a university that supports the top, as well as the middle.
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I would have never guessed the U didn't have a decent program in elementary education.
 

touchdownvikings said:
Oh, wow - you guys have struck a nerve. Before I begin, I'll say that I've had a few beers (tip of the cap to Dr. Don). So, if my tone is off, please forgive.

What gets me about the U is that it abandoned its top students. When it came time for me to select schools, I remember wanting to go to the U, but the problem was that I also wanted the chance at elite tech (I majored in EE). Elite tech doesn't interview at the U. Nor does elite finance, elite consulting - essentially all the things top students go to college for. So I left and paid a lot more.

Then came law school. I would have gone to the U if it had been the quality of say, UMich: mid-grade top, but not top-top. I'd have saved money and still had the chance I wanted. But, no. Abandoned again. So, off I went to pay for top-top... because I couldn't even get mid-grade top. Basically, the U has never been there for me, and I am not alone.

And here's the worst part: the twin cities could easily support a top university - we just choose not to. That's the maddening part, most places simply couldn't do it. We simply choose not to.

Flash forward. It was time for my eldest to go to college. Yep. Not the U. UMich. Because he needed the opportunity for elite tech, elite finance, elite consulting, you get it. And when my younger one goes off... again, it won't be the U. This has got to stop. We need a university that supports the top, as well as the middle.
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Michigan Tech, good hockey great education. Crazy yoopers though.
 

go4rob said:
I was listening to some of the callers in to CCO yesterday morning and most of them were downright mean in their comments about the Gophers and Coach Kill. I felt like calling in and asking why the pro teams in this town get an automatic "pass" from all the fans. How many Super Bowls trophies do the Vikings own? ZERO, how many Stanley Cups do the Wild own. ZERO! How many NBA championships to the T-Wolves have? Everyone is super pumped about the upcoming season. How have the Twins been doing lately? Even this year, they didn't make the playoffs, yet everybody in town is talking about what a GREAT year they had. So the Gophers lose one to Nebraska after they had won the past 2 years and everyone is talking about how they stink, their Coach doesn't know what he is doing, their Coaching staff is "stupid". I even heard a caller talk about he can never ever support the Gophers because they always lose (what about the last 2 years?) And another caller complained about all the tax dollars that are going into the new Athletic Village project to support losing programs. He said why should we taxpayer support these programs? This is also laughable because there are NO TAX DOLLARS going into the new project. Say what you want, but all of these comments reflect common views of our Gopher programs among the average sports fans in the state. They will LOVE their pro teams, no matter what, but the Gophers, that's another story.
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Exactly, I was listening too, and even tried calling in. It was ridiculous. Most of them seemed like older callers to me. Just plain ignorant and stupid in their comments. It really pisses me off because of their perception. They just have no idea. Don't even support their home state flagship university, especially when they have a football Coach they can finally be proud of!!!


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Ole said:
I'm hopeful the worm is turning on this issue.
Younger students/alumni have at least a semblance of real college gameday traditions to think back upon. There have been great games at the new stadium, nice wins, field stormings, etc.
Like it or not, the generation that has so much cynicism towards gopher football is getting older and frankly probably not buying season tickets.
Also, I have to believe the militant anti-sports crowd entrenched at the U is losing more battles than they win, even if they get a pat on the head here and there.

Time heals all, the key I think is to stay the course with a coaching staff that can bring respectability AND not rest upon their laurels.
As the schedule eases the next few years and some key players develop into upperclassmen I think we'll see the 8 win seasons and even hiccup years like this one raise their ceilings towards bigger goals.

A few keys to keeping the fanbase and alums moving towards a better place:
1)Continue to go to bowls, even crappy ones.
2)Continue to reach out to the public positively, even if they hate you for stupid reasons. Outreach to the fans and alumni cannot turn ugly like it did for Mason.
3)Recruit hard and never settle.
4)Beat Wisconsin. It shouldn't matter as much as it does, but the only way you ignite the Twin Cities' competitive spirit is to either win big and a ton or beat the team from drunkland across the river. Beat the Badgers and you get as many slaps on the back around town as you would from a 9 win season.(Believe it)
5)Once the Vikings leave TCF Bank, continue to elevate the gameday festivities. Organically I've seen the crowds seem to get younger and more festive this year. I think the light rail has given the 25-35 year olds an easy way into the game from areas in Minneapolis and they don't have the same cynicism towards public transit that older folks do. Also the students have put the rest of the stadium to shame this year with their outstanding support. That is the future fanbase, keep them coming and having fun and you'll see them at least adopt the Gophers as one of their teams like most in the TC have for the pro teams.
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Great post!


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This might be one of the most depressing threads I’ve seen on Gopherhole. I can only say that it’s difficult for me to relate to what those who attended the U in the 80s and 90s experienced. My years on campus were 1958-1962. Minnesota was well funded and well recognized as an academic institution in those years, and the Gophers were national champions in football and twice played in the Rose Bowl. My four years on campus were among the best of my long life.
I do know that the University made a conscious decision about the time I graduated to de-emphasis inter-collegiate sports, which I’ve always felt was a serious mistake. I didn’t realize until recently that there apparently was a similar de-emphasis of academics. But my sense is that things are changing dramatically. Between 1998 and 2012, six year graduation rates at Minnesota increased from 44 to 73%, and not long ago I read that admission standards now rank 3rd in the B1G. Similarly, the decision to break ground on the Athletic Village is evidence of a renewed commitment to athletics that we haven’t seen in the past 50+ years.

Can the U develop a fan base that will support elite football and basketball programs? I believe the answer is unequivocally yes. The key is to win. Our home games this year have thus far been sold out. I’m told Gopher fans outnumber Missouri fans at last year’s bowl game on the order of 2 to 1. It’s because we had back to back 8 win seasons. Minnesotans love a winner. The Twins – once pitied as a struggling “small market” team - won 94 games in 2010 and drew 3.2 million plus in attendance. The Lynx – once a doormat – has ranked second in league attendance the last four years.
 


Academics have improved, but there's still not a serious commitment - and it has cost the U in terms of its alumni base. A lot of us who did not go to the U are successful, (and would have gone, had the U been committed to being a top tier institution). Even now (I just looked this up for the latest year)... ACT midrange of admitted students: UMN 26-30. UMich 30-34. The seventy-fifth percentile at the U is the twenty-fifth percentile at the UMich. Frankly, this is pathetic. And it shows: does Goldman Sachs interview undergrads at the U, does Google interview undergrads at the U, Blackstone? You get the gist. That's why I had to go elsewhere and why I pay for my kid to go to Michigan. And, as I said before, most institutions simply couldn't be top tier. We choose not to be. And it hurts us all.
 

touchdownvikings said:
Academics have improved, but there's still not a serious commitment - and it has cost the U in terms of its alumni base. A lot of us who did not go to the U are successful, (and would have gone, had the U been committed to being a top tier institution). Even now (I just looked this up for the latest year)... ACT midrange of admitted students: UMN 26-30. UMich 30-34. The seventy-fifth percentile at the U is the twenty-fifth percentile at the UMich. Frankly, this is pathetic. And it shows: does Goldman Sachs interview undergrads at the U, does Google interview undergrads at the U, Blackstone? You get the gist. That's why I had to go elsewhere and why I pay for my kid to go to Michigan. And, as I said before, most institutions simply couldn't be top tier. We choose not to be. And it hurts us all.
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There's a big generational gap in Gopher fans. Lots of hardcore fans over 55 and under 25. Much less in between.
 

touchdownvikings said:
Academics have improved, but there's still not a serious commitment - and it has cost the U in terms of its alumni base. A lot of us who did not go to the U are successful, (and would have gone, had the U been committed to being a top tier institution). Even now (I just looked this up for the latest year)... ACT midrange of admitted students: UMN 26-30. UMich 30-34. The seventy-fifth percentile at the U is the twenty-fifth percentile at the UMich. Frankly, this is pathetic. And it shows: does Goldman Sachs interview undergrads at the U, does Google interview undergrads at the U, Blackstone? You get the gist. That's why I had to go elsewhere and why I pay for my kid to go to Michigan. And, as I said before, most institutions simply couldn't be top tier. We choose not to be. And it hurts us all.
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According to the Academic Rankings of World Universities 2015 edition put out by the CWCU at Shanghai Jiotong University with focus on research universities the U of MN is 22nd in the US and 30th in the world. Michigan is 17th in the US and 22nd in the world and Wisconsin is 18th in the US and 24th in the World. Further, Times Higher Ed World Rankings put the U at 30th with Michigan being 22nd and Wisconsin 24th. Finally, US News and World Report ranks the U the 29th best global university (3rd in the big ten). This is just a few publications but the U is catching up to Wisconsin and Michigan. There was a time that focus was on accepting more students with lower ranked GPAs and ACT scores into the school but there has been a shift towards becoming more selective and elitist. Standards are going up and just so you know plenty of graduates end up at fortune 500 companies. Hopefully, alumni support goes up as academic and football standards improve.
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I am aware of everything you cited. But there is a difference between research capacity and output and the ability of an institution to (1) recruit top UNDERGRAD students; and (2) get the elite tech/finance/consulting institutions to recruit said students. If my son had gone to the U, it wouldn't matter how well he did - he couldn't get hired by an elite Wall Street/Silicon Valley firm when the firm doesn't recruit here to begin with! They don't recruit here for several reasons, the main one being that our ACT mid-range DOES NOT EVEN OVERLAP Michigan's at all! Holy cow! That is a wakeup call! Do me a favor - look up the "target" undergrad schools for Wall Street recruiting.
 

I think good players usually trump good alumni when it comes to winning football!
 

touchdownvikings said:
Academics have improved, but there's still not a serious commitment - and it has cost the U in terms of its alumni base. A lot of us who did not go to the U are successful, (and would have gone, had the U been committed to being a top tier institution). Even now (I just looked this up for the latest year)... ACT midrange of admitted students: UMN 26-30. UMich 30-34. The seventy-fifth percentile at the U is the twenty-fifth percentile at the UMich. Frankly, this is pathetic. And it shows: does Goldman Sachs interview undergrads at the U, does Google interview undergrads at the U, Blackstone? You get the gist. That's why I had to go elsewhere and why I pay for my kid to go to Michigan. And, as I said before, most institutions simply couldn't be top tier. We choose not to be. And it hurts us all.
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Why do Penn Stare, Michigan State, Iowa, and Nebraska have such strong alumni bases with lower mid range ACT scores? Why is Northwestern's so poor? There are so many more decisive factors than university prestige. Have you been to a UM football game? That 100k+ stadium is filled with non-alumni supporting the team. Google Walmart Wolverine if you want some background.

There is also such a wide range of students at UMN. I don't think you have any idea what type of student comes out of there. UMN science and engineering had an ACT mid range of 30-33, Carlson 28-31, Education and Human Development was 23-28. Few universities split up admissions like the U does.

UMN has a higher rated economics program than UM and flat out says on their own website they place grads at Goldman Sachs. I think you're a little dated on your view of the U. Personally, I don't get paying out of state tuition for an undergrad degree. If prestige is that important to you, grad school is where it actually matters.
 

Gold Vision said:
Why do Penn Stare, Michigan State, Iowa, and Nebraska have such strong alumni bases with lower mid range ACT scores? Why is Northwestern's so poor? There are so many more decisive factors than university prestige. Have you been to a UM football game? That 100k+ stadium is filled with non-alumni supporting the team. Google Walmart Wolverine if you want some background.

There is also such a wide range of students at UMN. I don't think you have any idea what type of student comes out of there. UMN science and engineering had an ACT mid range of 30-33, Carlson 28-31, Education and Human Development was 23-28. Few universities split up admissions like the U does.

UMN has a higher rated economics program than UM and flat out says on their own website they place grads at Goldman Sachs. I think you're a little dated on your view of the U. Personally, I don't get paying out of state tuition for an undergrad degree. If prestige is that important to you, grad school is where it actually matters.
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His view is clearly misunderstood. I am a fairly recent Carlson grad and had interviews at nearly every bulge bracket investment bank in NYC (including Goldman). I interned in Silicon Valley and came back to the Midwest for full time work. Did they come to campus? No. But any intelligent person with interest and the personality to e-mail alumni already at these firms/companies can make it happen. Honestly, the Michigan grads I have interviewed have mostly been underwhelming. Memorize answers and can't pass the airport test in my book.

I hate how everyone in the metro seems to think the U is not a good option for their children and looks elsewhere in the Big or to the East Coast for an education that is not incrementally better and significantly more expensive. Just for your child to be an English major and work at SBUX anyway.

The U is a sleeping giant that has recently awakened in regards to academics. CBS, CSE, Carlson, and select programs in CLA are amazing values. Recent alumni (including myself) and many others realize it. Now the older folks here in town (and some elsewhere) just need to wake up.
 

touchdownvikings said:
I am aware of everything you cited. But there is a difference between research capacity and output and the ability of an institution to (1) recruit top UNDERGRAD students; and (2) get the elite tech/finance/consulting institutions to recruit said students. If my son had gone to the U, it wouldn't matter how well he did - he couldn't get hired by an elite Wall Street/Silicon Valley firm when the firm doesn't recruit here to begin with! They don't recruit here for several reasons, the main one being that our ACT mid-range DOES NOT EVEN OVERLAP Michigan's at all! Holy cow! That is a wakeup call! Do me a favor - look up the "target" undergrad schools for Wall Street recruiting.
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Your theory is that we will have better alumni support for our MINNESOTA based football team if more of our alumni relocate to Wall Street or Silicon Valley.

This is way over what my tiny University of Minnesota educated brain can comprehend.
 

touchdownvikings said:
I am aware of everything you cited. But there is a difference between research capacity and output and the ability of an institution to (1) recruit top UNDERGRAD students; and (2) get the elite tech/finance/consulting institutions to recruit said students. If my son had gone to the U, it wouldn't matter how well he did - he couldn't get hired by an elite Wall Street/Silicon Valley firm when the firm doesn't recruit here to begin with! They don't recruit here for several reasons, the main one being that our ACT mid-range DOES NOT EVEN OVERLAP Michigan's at all! Holy cow! That is a wakeup call! Do me a favor - look up the "target" undergrad schools for Wall Street recruiting.
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Ok. I looked up the target schools for Wall Street (kind of a narrow-minded perspective, if you ask me) and it looks like you missed the boat by not sending your kid to the Ivy League. From Penn State Online:

"Overall, the Ivy League still dominates the undergrad recruiting pipeline on Wall Street, with six schools in the top 10 overall, including Harvard University (4th), Cornell University (5th), Princeton University (6th), and Columbia University (9th).

- See more at: http://poetsandquantsforundergrads....-schools-to-wall-street/#sthash.G2k5EFsO.dpuf
 

WI just kicked off a 3 bill in 5 yr push. 10 yrs ago mn was 3rd in the big ten for endowment...i wonder where we are now. yeah minny guessed wrong on collegiate sports in the 1980s and 90s. we had Nils.
 



touchdownvikings said:
Academics have improved, but there's still not a serious commitment - and it has cost the U in terms of its alumni base. A lot of us who did not go to the U are successful, (and would have gone, had the U been committed to being a top tier institution). Even now (I just looked this up for the latest year)... ACT midrange of admitted students: UMN 26-30. UMich 30-34. The seventy-fifth percentile at the U is the twenty-fifth percentile at the UMich. Frankly, this is pathetic. And it shows: does Goldman Sachs interview undergrads at the U, does Google interview undergrads at the U, Blackstone? You get the gist. That's why I had to go elsewhere and why I pay for my kid to go to Michigan. And, as I said before, most institutions simply couldn't be top tier. We choose not to be. And it hurts us all.
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The fairly dramatic improvement in graduation rates and admission standards seems to belie your assertion that "there's still not a serious commitment." What's the basis for your assertion? Many of Minnesota's professional schools and graduate programs rank in the nation's top 20. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unive...dia.org/wiki/University_of_Minnesota#Rankings Plus it has been suggested that Minnesota's improvement in graduation rates and admission standards have not yet been recognized in current ratings, but inevitably will be.
 

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