Pitino post game: Didn't like energy going into the game, like the D on last play...

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Tubby's first two classes were way better. His recruiting was ff the charts for Minnesota in the recent past. Best recruiting since Dutcher really. But, it fell apart very fast, poor ovrsight of players and crap development lead to transfers and trouble.

Pitino has had worse recuiting with a much more difficult recruiting environment. He didn't have a national championship and didnt come from Kentucky (Central Florida, doesn't help recruit). how these players develop and execute will make the difference. Very similiar start with the rape allegation, dismissal for not meeting team expectations and a transfer.

If Jarvis, Dorsey, McBrayer and Jonathon come through as three or four year players I'll give the nod to Pitino. If they depart or fail to develop, then its a push isn't it?
 

Otis said:
Tubby's first two classes were way better. His recruiting was ff the charts for Minnesota in the recent past. Best recruiting since Dutcher really. But, it fell apart very fast, poor ovrsight of players and crap development lead to transfers and trouble.

Pitino has had worse recuiting with a much more difficult recruiting environment. He didn't have a national championship and didnt come from Kentucky (Central Florida, doesn't help recruit). how these players develop and execute will make the difference. Very similiar start with the rape allegation, dismissal for not meeting team expectations and a transfer.

If Jarvis, Dorsey, McBrayer and Jonathon come through as three or four year players I'll give the nod to Pitino. If they depart or fail to develop, then its a push isn't it?
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Agree it's just still too early to tell on how Pitino will do. Let's just give the guy a chance and see how next years freshman look and develope
 

Otis said:
Tubby's first two classes were way better. His recruiting was ff the charts for Minnesota in the recent past. Best recruiting since Dutcher really. But, it fell apart very fast, poor ovrsight of players and crap development lead to transfers and trouble.

Pitino has had worse recuiting with a much more difficult recruiting environment. He didn't have a national championship and didnt come from Kentucky (Central Florida, doesn't help recruit). how these players develop and execute will make the difference. Very similiar start with the rape allegation, dismissal for not meeting team expectations and a transfer.

If Jarvis, Dorsey, McBrayer and Jonathon come through as three or four year players I'll give the nod to Pitino. If they depart or fail to develop, then its a push isn't it?
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I could have missed it but I don't believe there was a rape allegation under Tubby nor has there been under Pitino.
 

McNeil? isn't that the guy or was it just domestic assualt? cause that is so much better. Tubby had "light fingers" White with the computer and the mall of america shoplifting.

Try to keep up!
 

Otis said:
McNeil? isn't that the guy or was it just domestic assualt? cause that is so much better. Tubby had "light fingers" White with the computer and the mall of america shoplifting.

Try to keep up!
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Keep up with what? The fact that you are inferring there have been rape allegations under Pitino which there hasn't been and Tubby had more than just White going on. There was another player that had some domestic issues. Looks like you're the one that needs to keep up.
 


bga1 said:
Beyond just Mo's weight loss - who thought he would be a Big Ten honorable mention player? He became an excellent center on the offensive side. Vertically challenged but he developed NBA post moves to his own credit and to the staff's.

Andre was better than an average player. Size and speed held him back from going the next step. Put Morris' length and speed with Andre's shot and understanding of the game and you'd have an NBA player. As it was, a top 20 player in the Big ten is not average. I'd take as many of him as I could get.
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I got one for you, do you remember Damian Johnson. He was a 2-star player who became the defensive player of the year in a defensive minded B1G. Like I said people have a short-term memory loss.
 

The-Real-Truth said:
I got one for you, do you remember Damian Johnson. He was a 2-star player who became the defensive player of the year in a defensive minded B1G. Like I said people have a short-term memory loss.
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Might want to check your facts before you make fun of someone's memory... Go away, you're not a gopher fan.
 

The-Real-Truth said:
I got one for you, do you remember Damian Johnson. He was a 2-star player who became the defensive player of the year in a defensive minded B1G. Like I said people have a short-term memory loss.
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Speaking of short-term memories....Damian was definitely never DPOY.

Junior year (made 1st team all-D)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008–09_Big_Ten_Conference_men's_basketball_season

Senior year (no accolades)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009–10_Big_Ten_Conference_men's_basketball_season
 

Bottom line:

Tubby = 3 NCAAs in 6 years; 1-2 NCAA record; NIT runner-up; best B1G record 9-9 (twice); best B1G finish 6th (twice); semifinal or better BTT appearances (2); and best BTT finish runner-up.

Pitino = 0 NCAAs in just under 2 years; NIT championship; best B1G record 8-10; best B1G finish 7th; semifinal or better BTT appearances (0); and best BTT finish quarterfinals.

Still way too early to condemn or anoint Pitino in 2 years. Young & hungry guy still learning the ropes coaching against some great ones in the B1G, and what's it's like to be a head coach at a major university in a power conference. Am disappointed how this season went, but let's see what we get with next year's recruiting class, and what he does with those guys moving forward.
 





The-Real-Truth said:
I got one for you, do you remember Damian Johnson. He was a 2-star player who became the defensive player of the year in a defensive minded B1G. Like I said people have a short-term memory loss.
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Tubby developed some guys- no doubt and Damien was one of them. Tubby was a good coach. He got tired - his recruiting got lazy and he rarely could put a point guard on the floor. In fairness to Tubby had he gotten a break with White and a few other situations early- he could have had some real high end teams that went far. It just didn't happen and in the end it appears that the AD felt there was not energy left.

It's not Tubby- it's coaching. If Pitino 5-6 years in hasn't exceeded 9-9 he is going to get the axe as well.
 

bga1 said:
Tubby developed some guys- no doubt and Damien was one of them. Tubby was a good coach. He got tired - his recruiting got lazy and he rarely could put a point guard on the floor. In fairness to Tubby had he gotten a break with White and a few other situations early- he could have had some real high end teams that went far. It just didn't happen and in the end it appears that the AD felt there was not energy left.

It's not Tubby- it's coaching. If Pitino 5-6 years in hasn't exceeded 9-9 he is going to get the axe as well.
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Did Tubby even really develop Damion Johnson. Tubby's first year Johnson had a great improvement in stats but that also coincided with an increase in minutes and role on the team. Maybe if we give credit to Pitino for Mo we gotta give credit to Tubby for Johnson. However, from So to Sr year there were very small increases in stats per game: points(+2.8), RB(-0.4), Ast(+1), Blk(+0.5), FG%(+4.8%) 3pt%(+5.3%), FT%(+15.7%) While the minutes remained the same. One could argue that there was no big improvment for 3 years under tubby for Damion johnson

Edit: Actually those stats are on parr with most player developement
 




bga1 said:
Definition of a Gopher fan = Not you.

And that, my boy, is the real truth.
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Very grown-up response. Bga1, if you tell me one thing that you didn't like about Richard's coaching this season like you used to say in every post before, I will never mention Tubby's name on this board. He must have made some mistakes since Gophers are seeded at 11. Start you post like this, "here is what I don't like about Richard". I dare you. I will put you in SS and Bleed category if do this. For now, you are in Tiny and Jamloo's club.

For your information my childish buddy, I cheer for Belmont, MTSU, Purdue, Gophers, Vandy, and Texas Tech. I have said this many times. I cheer for the schools that I have attended or worked for plus the ones that Tubby coaches.

I strongly suggest you read the new article about Izzo and his lack of success lately since he is not willing to cheat. Tubby is in that category also and as well as Richard.
 

The-Real-Truth said:
For your information my childish buddy, I cheer for Belmont, MTSU, Purdue, Gophers, Vandy, and Texas Tech. I have said this many times. I cheer for the schools that I have attended or worked for plus the ones that Tubby coaches.
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That's so bizarre. You posted twice during the day on Feb. 26 and then didn't return to the board until March 6. I don't get it. Did something happen on the night of Feb. 26 that can explain your absence for eight days and then happen on the night of March 5 that can explain your return?

I must not be as big a Gopher fan as you. When Minnesota wins a big game, I like to come to my team's message board. When the Gophers lost to Illinois this past fall, I stayed away from the board for nearly two weeks. Deeply ashamed.
 

The-Real-Truth said:
For your information my childish buddy, I cheer for Belmont, MTSU, Purdue, Gophers, Vandy, and Texas Tech. I have said this many times. I cheer for the schools that I have attended or worked for plus the ones that Tubby coaches.

I strongly suggest you read the new article about Izzo and his lack of success lately since he is not willing to cheat. Tubby is in that category also and as well as Richard.
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The article you cite doesn't help make Tubby's Minnesota record look any better. It says the Big Ten was reputed to be the cleanest league in the country. So Tubby not cheating was not a disadvantage in relation to his league peers, against whom he never finished over .500. Izzo was being compared to national standards in the article ("down" to Izzo's MSU teams means not top 10, etc.); he matches up just fine against his Big Ten peers but recent implicit cheating by others may be preventing him from national contention. Jury is of course out on Pitino. The types of recruits we're getting suggest that we're running a clean program; whether it's a good enough program will be determined in the next 3-4 years...same total amount of time Tubby got.

And you "cheer for the Gophers?" LOL, I didn't see you on here after we won at MSU this year for the first time in 17 years, or beat Iowa on the road. Only when there's something to troll Gopher fans about.

If your motivation is to uphold/defend Tubby's reputation among MN fans, you're doing the opposite on this Board. Most reasonable people understand that some of the things that happened to the teams and recruiting during Tubby's tenure were beyond his control, that he's had a very good career, and that he did a solid to admirable job here for at least some of the time (particularly the first couple years). But you (and DPO) just irritate everyone to the point that it's negatively coloring their perception of Tubby.
 

The-Real-Truth said:
Very grown-up response. Bga1, if you tell me one thing that you didn't like about Richard's coaching this season like you used to say in every post before, I will never mention Tubby's name on this board. He must have made some mistakes since Gophers are seeded at 11. Start you post like this, "here is what I don't like about Richard". I dare you. I will put you in SS and Bleed category if do this. For now, you are in Tiny and Jamloo's club.

For your information my childish buddy, I cheer for Belmont, MTSU, Purdue, Gophers, Vandy, and Texas Tech. I have said this many times. I cheer for the schools that I have attended or worked for plus the ones that Tubby coaches.

I strongly suggest you read the new article about Izzo and his lack of success lately since he is not willing to cheat. Tubby is in that category also and as well as Richard.
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Have there been a bunch of cheating scandals that I missed in the to B1G schools recently? Are a bunch of Bo Ryan's players enrolled in fake classes at UNC?
 

The-Real-Truth said:
Very grown-up response. Bga1, if you tell me one thing that you didn't like about Richard's coaching this season like you used to say in every post before, I will never mention Tubby's name on this board. He must have made some mistakes since Gophers are seeded at 11. Start you post like this, "here is what I don't like about Richard". I dare you. I will put you in SS and Bleed category if do this. For now, you are in Tiny and Jamloo's club.

For your information my childish buddy, I cheer for Belmont, MTSU, Purdue, Gophers, Vandy, and Texas Tech. I have said this many times. I cheer for the schools that I have attended or worked for plus the ones that Tubby coaches.

I strongly suggest you read the new article about Izzo and his lack of success lately since he is not willing to cheat. Tubby is in that category also and as well as Richard.
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Challenge accepted:

The things I don't like about Richard's coaching so far:

1. Too much sarcasm - I like his humor but too much sarcasm can hurt the players
2. I thought there were plenty of times he should have shut the press down to save energy for his guards- I thought Hollins wore out in some games dogging guys all the way up the court with no effect.
3. He definitely needs to spend more time on rebounding fundamentals in the future.
4. I think he should have tried EE and Mo together for short spans in the pre-season to see what dynamic it created on court. Once Bakary became a viable sub - there was the opportunity to try this combo without fear of the fouling out issue. I'm not sure he adapted to his personnel well enough.

So I have concerns and criticisms but I still like his potential as a coach and recruiter a lot. I believe he will succeed here.
 

Maximus said:
That's so bizarre. You posted twice during the day on Feb. 26 and then didn't return to the board until March 6. I don't get it. Did something happen on the night of Feb. 26 that can explain your absence for eight days and then happen on the night of March 5 that can explain your return?

I must not be as big a Gopher fan as you. When Minnesota wins a big game, I like to come to my team's message board. When the Gophers lost to Illinois this past fall, I stayed away from the board for nearly two weeks. Deeply ashamed.
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I had my concerns for the program when Richard was hired. Maybe that's why I am here just to show that I was right. During the next 3-4 years, if the program is heading to the right direction, I assure you, I will be the 1st to tell you how wrong I was. However, Some so-called-Gopher-fans would never admit that they were wrong. Have you seen the tone on their posts. Some are saying Richard may or may not be able to do it. Same people last year were talking about going to FF in a few years. Some of us said yes Tubby had to go but you replace a HOF coach who failed to win here with a coach with one year of experience. There are some intelligent fans here too such as SS who is looking around the programs in the country and sees that young coaches are hungry and doing well. I may not agree with him 100% but I respect it. Three years ago people were ready to bring out the red carpet for Grant from Alabama. What has he done lately as a young and hungry coach? Some were dreaming about the type of players will Richard bring here. Now they are say surely Tubby recruited better because of his name. You see who is biased here??????? Those who hated Tubby got their wishes. Those who love the program may never get their wishes until something really changes here. The current AD is incapable of doing it.
 

The-Real-Truth said:
I had my concerns for the program when Richard was hired. Maybe that's why I am here just to show that I was right. During the next 3-4 years, if the program is heading to the right direction, I assure you, I will be the 1st to tell you how wrong I was. However, Some so-called-Gopher-fans would never admit that they were wrong. Have you seen the tone on their posts. Some are saying Richard may or may not be able to do it. Same people last year were talking about going to FF in a few years. Some of us said yes Tubby had to go but you replace a HOF coach who failed to win here with a coach with one year of experience. There are some intelligent fans here too such as SS who is looking around the programs in the country and sees that young coaches are hungry and doing well. I may not agree with him 100% but I respect it. Three years ago people were ready to bring out the red carpet for Grant from Alabama. What has he done lately as a young and hungry coach? Some were dreaming about the type of players will Richard bring here. Now they are say surely Tubby recruited better because of his name. You see who is biased here??????? Those who hated Tubby got their wishes. Those who love the program may never get their wishes until something really changes here. The current AD is incapable of doing it.
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Oh- I see.
 

bga1 said:
Challenge accepted:

The things I don't like about Richard's coaching so far:

1. Too much sarcasm - I like his humor but too much sarcasm can hurt the players
2. I thought there were plenty of times he should have shut the press down to save energy for his guards- I thought Hollins wore out in some games dogging guys all the way up the court with no effect.
3. He definitely needs to spend more time on rebounding fundamentals in the future.
4. I think he should have tried EE and Mo together for short spans in the pre-season to see what dynamic it created on court. Once Bakary became a viable sub - there was the opportunity to try this combo without fear of the fouling out issue. I'm not sure he adapted to his personnel well enough.

So I have concerns and criticisms but I still like his potential as a coach and recruiter a lot. I believe he will succeed here.
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Fair enough. I will stop as of now. One thing that I might be wrong about. If I am, I am sorry to bring it up. Didn't you complain about having two big guys on the court at the same time like Ralph and Colt? It might have been somebody else??? It's all good.

Go Gophers
 

The-Real-Truth said:
I had my concerns for the program when Richard was hired. Maybe that's why I am here just to show that I was right. During the next 3-4 years, if the program is heading to the right direction, I assure you, I will be the 1st to tell you how wrong I was.
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I doubt that you will be doing that in the future if the record doesn't support your belief. Obviously you care too much about being "right" even in a venue like this one where there is absolutely nothing at stake.

Right now my feelings about Pitino are no better than lukewarm and I know I'm not alone around here. The majority of fans will always be high on a new coach. That has less to do with the coach than it does with trying to maintain a sense of optimism about a program's future. If Pitino fails, that means the program is stalled under him for another two or three years followed by at least one or two years of mediocrity under his successor.
 

cjbfbp said:
I doubt that you will be doing that in the future if the record doesn't support your belief. Obviously you care too much about being "right" even in a venue like this one where there is absolutely nothing at stake.

Right now my feelings about Pitino are no better than lukewarm and I know I'm not alone around here. The majority of fans will always be high on a new coach. That has less to do with the coach than it does with trying to maintain a sense of optimism about a program's future. If Pitino fails, that means to program is stalled under him for another two or three years followed by at least one or two years of mediocrity under his successor.
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You are right. This was a great post. I did act like I wanted to be right. You are also right about the excitement about the new coach. I will do my best to stay away from negative posts. I am really not sure what caused all of this. I am really not a have-to-be-right person. The correction is on the way. Lets beat that NJ team. Go Gophers
 

The-Real-Truth said:
You are right. This was a great post. I did act like I wanted to be right. You are also right about the excitement about the new coach. I will do my best to stay away from negative posts. I am really not sure what caused all of this. I am really not a have-to-be-right person. The correction is on the way. Lets beat that NJ team. Go Gophers
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OK +1 on that!
 

The-Real-Truth said:
You are right. This was a great post. I did act like I wanted to be right. You are also right about the excitement about the new coach. I will do my best to stay away from negative posts. I am really not sure what caused all of this. I am really not a have-to-be-right person. The correction is on the way. Lets beat that NJ team. Go Gophers
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I-dont-believe-you.gif
 

The-Real-Truth said:
I had my concerns for the program when Richard was hired. Maybe that's why I am here just to show that I was right. During the next 3-4 years, if the program is heading to the right direction, I assure you, I will be the 1st to tell you how wrong I was. However, Some so-called-Gopher-fans would never admit that they were wrong. Have you seen the tone on their posts. Some are saying Richard may or may not be able to do it. Same people last year were talking about going to FF in a few years. Some of us said yes Tubby had to go but you replace a HOF coach who failed to win here with a coach with one year of experience. There are some intelligent fans here too such as SS who is looking around the programs in the country and sees that young coaches are hungry and doing well. I may not agree with him 100% but I respect it. Three years ago people were ready to bring out the red carpet for Grant from Alabama. What has he done lately as a young and hungry coach? Some were dreaming about the type of players will Richard bring here. Now they are say surely Tubby recruited better because of his name. You see who is biased here??????? Those who hated Tubby got their wishes. Those who love the program may never get their wishes until something really changes here. The current AD is incapable of doing it.
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Oh, I see. Do you really have to wonder why people respond as they do to someone who only posts when the so-called evidence points to the "rightness" of their opinion?
You ought to face it - if you're attached to that, you're hoping for us to fail and this explains your absence when we do well.
 

Moonlight said:
Oh, I see. Do you really have to wonder why people respond as they do to someone who only posts when the so-called evidence points to the "rightness" of their opinion?
You ought to face it - if you're attached to that, you're hoping for us to fail and this explains your absence when we do well.
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I think that I admitted to this. Didn't I? You are correct though.
 

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