Amelia says Joey King and Carlos Morris "aren't expected to hold major roles" next yr

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I believe that King and Morris will start. Jonathon Nwankwo is pretty much a shoo-in to start at center. Guards will be very interesting to see what flushes out and who starts. Definately the strongest part of the team.

It wouldn't surprise me though to see us roll out a 3 guard line-up with Jonathon at center and one of the athletic but raw guys at PF. This would require those guys developing a post game and working hard on defense.

rolling out a classic basketball lineup next year would not get our most talented players on the floor at the same time.
 

alchemy2u said:
The point I was trying to make was to show some patience and I fully expect next year's team to be better. Pitino will be bringing in much better recruits than we have been accustom to getting and there will not be a major fall off.


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I don't "fully expect" anything next year but equaling or surpassing 6 conference wins (if that's the final number) is not an overly challenging benchmark for next year's team. However, in the earlier non-conference season, I will be fairly surprised if next year's team equals 11-2 especially if that schedule is a bit tougher. We could be a better team by the end of next year and maybe have a better conference record but still have a slightly poorer overall record.
 

Otis said:
I believe that King and Morris will start. Jonathon Nwankwo is pretty much a shoo-in to start at center. Guards will be very interesting to see what flushes out and who starts. Definately the strongest part of the team.

It wouldn't surprise me though to see us roll out a 3 guard line-up with Jonathon at center and one of the athletic but raw guys at PF. This would require those guys developing a post game and working hard on defense.

rolling out a classic basketball lineup next year would not get our most talented players on the floor at the same time.
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Otis- I'm interested in what makes you say that about Nwankwo. I don't know enough to agree or disagree. I really like what I see on his video and he looks the part.... but shoo in? Should be an interesting competition between him and Konate. At any rate- I'm not that worried about the center position, I think those two will be fine. My concern is finding someone who will rebound the ball and at least score at the Joey King level at the 4 spot. I'd love to see Buggs muscle up this summer and seize it, or Gaston, but I have a feeling we may need the Boucher kid.
 

BUMP

Nice games by 2 guys returning next year that will have diminished roles.. If they can play like they did last night, they will be welcomed back into the starting lineup next season.
 

gall0249 said:
BUMP

Nice games by 2 guys returning next year that will have diminished roles.. If they can play like they did last night, they will be welcomed back into the starting lineup next season.
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Actually I heard they are going to be honored next Sunday on Senior day just to get it over with since their roles will be so diminished next year.
 



Very timely piece. I hate that when you say something (write something) and it looks off base moments later.
 

watertown 1987 guy n said:
Very timely piece. I hate that when you say something (write something) and it looks off base moments later.
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I said the Gophers couldn't beat MSU if it was a free-wheeling game, had to be a grinder. 96-90 Gophers. Oops, not quite a grinder. As it turned out, defense was optional by both teams.
 




bga1 said:
Otis- I'm interested in what makes you say that about Nwankwo. I don't know enough to agree or disagree. I really like what I see on his video and he looks the part.... but shoo in? Should be an interesting competition between him and Konate. At any rate- I'm not that worried about the center position, I think those two will be fine. My concern is finding someone who will rebound the ball and at least score at the Joey King level at the 4 spot. I'd love to see Buggs muscle up this summer and seize it, or Gaston, but I have a feeling we may need the Boucher kid.
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- Was thinking the same thing. He looks like a good prospect, but I've no reason to think he is an immediate upgrade over Bakary, who has a year of B1G play under his belt.

- Buggs could add 30 pounds of muscle and he still wouldn't rebound, box out, or set screens worth a lick. It's like hoping Ralph Sampson would muscle up and become a rebounder. Some guys just don't like contact and Buggs is one of those guys. Boucher would be a nice pick up but I'm not sold that he would address our rebounding issue. At 6'10" and 205lbs, I think he's more of a skinny shot blocker/rim protector than he is a banger. My sense (not a fact) is that his rebounds come because he's basically just a lot taller/more athletic than the guys he's playing against right now. Not to say he wouldn't be a nice addition, but he's real thin and has taken quite a while to find his stride as a player. so I don't think he'd have the immediate impact some others do. My opinion is that next year it's King again at the 4, with progressively more Gaston as he gets the hang of it. I like Gaston and think he'll be a solid player. He's got the size and physical tools to help. Fingers crossed on landing a rugged transfer/grad at the 4. I keep saying the same thing on the subject of a transfer: We don't even need a Trevor Mbakwe, an Andre Ingram would do the trick.
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
If it's a one time thing, that's a lot different. He's been ripping King nonstop. Funny, King has a nice game and he's nowhere to be found.
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He's never, ever anywhere to be found when we win. Seriously. The guy only posts after a loss and when things look their worst, so I never pay any attention to him. I'm not sure why there is a group of so-called fans that only come here to discuss things when the team is sucking but there it is.
 

I suppose

Moonlight said:
He's never, ever anywhere to be found when we win. Seriously. The guy only posts after a loss and when things look their worst, so I never pay any attention to him. I'm not sure why there is a group of so-called fans that only come here to discuss things when the team is sucking but there it is.
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it depends how we handle the three open scholarships but I'd be surprised if Joey and Morris don't start to begin the season.
 

When Pitino came in I thought he was billed as a guy who would speed up the tempo. If so, then Morris has to be involved with a major role - and I think he will be. (The guy could be really good if he's handled correctly by the staff.) I would rather watch Morris's athleticism and desire to score 10 times more than I'd want to watch slow, plodding offensive sets and with Mason or Hollins trying to scramble at the end of the shot clock to find an open guy. I say, "Let Morris run and we'll have fun!"
 



Pitino has been quoted as saying Nwankwo is a project. How that comment translates into a 'shoo in' to start makes me wonder what you know that Pitino doesn't know. Hope you're right though.
 

TheMetroTheFaust said:
When Pitino came in I thought he was billed as a guy who would speed up the tempo. If so, then Morris has to be involved with a major role - and I think he will be. (The guy could be really good if he's handled correctly by the staff.) I would rather watch Morris's athleticism and desire to score 10 times more than I'd want to watch slow, plodding offensive sets and with Mason or Hollins trying to scramble at the end of the shot clock to find an open guy. I say, "Let Morris run and we'll have fun!"
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If Morris can develop a better feel for the game, which I am not sure is something that can be taught, he could be really good. He just makes some questionable choices at times, but I think he needs to be cut some slack because he is being aggressive when he has those lapses in judgment. He also seems to be getting better defensively and I think he good be a really good player next year.
 

From Pitino's comments on his coaches show a few weeks ago it was pretty clear that he doesn't view Nwankwo as someone who will come in and start next season. As for Morris/King, the biggest mistake that can be made is overreacting to one good game.

Pitino had some interesting comments about Morris and team depth when he joined Mackey and Judd on 1500 Friday morning. He said he had a sit down with Carlos a few days ago and basically told him that he (Carlos) had been fighting him (Pitino) all year. That Pitino would ask him to do certain things and Carlos would do them sometimes, but also do thing his own way. He asked Carlos to do what Pitino asked all the time for the rest of the year and that Carlos would play more and play better if he did those things. Judd asked a good follow up question about what you do with a player who is continually making mistakes and Pitino said that the bench is the best teacher. He said their lack of depth this year is an issue because playing time isn't the carrot it normally is...everyone basically has to play.
 

EG#9 said:
From Pitino's comments on his coaches show a few weeks ago it was pretty clear that he doesn't view Nwankwo as someone who will come in and start next season.
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EG, how much of this do you think is Pitino trying to lower expectations and not put too much pressure on him?
 

BarnBoy said:
EG, how much of this do you think is Pitino trying to lower expectations and not put too much pressure on him?
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Throwing in my two cents here; I haven't any of Pitino's comments on Nwankwo, but I have seen Nwankwo in person this high school season and would tell you that outside of him being a big dude, I'd keep expectations low for year one.
 

EG#9 said:
From Pitino's comments on his coaches show a few weeks ago it was pretty clear that he doesn't view Nwankwo as someone who will come in and start next season. As for Morris/King, the biggest mistake that can be made is overreacting to one good game.

Pitino had some interesting comments about Morris and team depth when he joined Mackey and Judd on 1500 Friday morning. He said he had a sit down with Carlos a few days ago and basically told him that he (Carlos) had been fighting him (Pitino) all year. That Pitino would ask him to do certain things and Carlos would do them sometimes, but also do thing his own way. He asked Carlos to do what Pitino asked all the time for the rest of the year and that Carlos would play more and play better if he did those things. Judd asked a good follow up question about what you do with a player who is continually making mistakes and Pitino said that the bench is the best teacher. He said their lack of depth this year is an issue because playing time isn't the carrot it normally is...everyone basically has to play.
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Thanks for sharing this.

I think this has been a tough situation for a young coach establishing his authority. Every teacher has to work through this, and in this situation, there hasn't been much consequence of disregarding direction/leadership. King, Carlos and Buggs are all players with some game but none should be starters in the BT and yet Pitino has to start 2 of them every game. After 3 years of basketball at this level (albeit 1 a redshirt year) teammates still expend a lot of energy on the court telling BUggs where to be, and from this we can surmise that a lot of energy has gone into telling Carlos what to do which he has had the luxury of ignoring. Complaints about King abound, but if not the most talented, he seems the most coachable (5 rebounds, one to ice the game the other night).
 

Moonlight said:
Thanks for sharing this.

I think this has been a tough situation for a young coach establishing his authority. Every teacher has to work through this, and in this situation, there hasn't been much consequence of disregarding direction/leadership. King, Carlos and Buggs are all players with some game but none should be starters in the BT and yet Pitino has to start 2 of them every game. After 3 years of basketball at this level (albeit 1 a redshirt year) teammates still expend a lot of energy on the court telling BUggs where to be, and from this we can surmise that a lot of energy has gone into telling Carlos what to do which he has had the luxury of ignoring. Complaints about King abound, but if not the most talented, he seems the most coachable (5 rebounds, one to ice the game the other night).
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This post is spot on. Buggs and Morris are both lost more often than not on defense, but that can usually be taught. Buggs is almost 22 y/o and hasn't figured it out yet. Morris seems to have no interest in figuring it out. To make things worse, both players fail to do the little lunch pail things that win games and endear teammates to you. i.e. Neither works through screens/picks so they frequently leave their opponents wide open to shoot 3's. What's the point in driving the lane for nice transition score if you're just going to half-ass it through a screen coming back the other way and let your man nail a 3? They also put virtually no energy into setting screens for their teammates. It's not an easy thing to do if you're not a physical player, but when you've got guys like Andre Hollins on the team you have to get him clean shots by setting hard screens and neither do that. Then you have the fact that Buggs specifically, but Joey & Morris to a lesser degree simply don't box out or even put a hit on opposing bigs so we lose a lot of offensive rebounds/possessions that way. btw, the absolute most guilty player on all of these lazy habits is Mo Walker, but he's graduating. I really think we have a culture of soft, lazy basketball and it needs to be shaken up. My hope is that Mo graduating will be the start of that process.
 

I find this ironic. One of the most frequent complaints on this board is that "Gopher players don't get better from year to year." Then, people turn around and start making these predictions about how "Buggs is going to improve next year," or "Morris will be better next year."

My response is: "based on what?" As Costa said, Buggs is no kid, and Morris has 2 years of JUCO ball under his belt, plus almost a full season of D1. Where is this big improvement going to come from? Short of a miraculous change in attitude or work ethic, I just don't see either player transforming himself into something different that what we're already seeing.

I think Pitino's best hope to build a program is to land some quality HS recruits, and build from the ground up. If your program is on the verge of being really good, I'm not opposed to bringing in a JUCO as the last piece in the puzzle to make a title run. But for the current state of the Gopher program, I think JUCO's are the wrong way to go.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I find this ironic. One of the most frequent complaints on this board is that "Gopher players don't get better from year to year." Then, people turn around and start making these predictions about how "Buggs is going to improve next year," or "Morris will be better next year."

My response is: "based on what?" As Costa said, Buggs is no kid, and Morris has 2 years of JUCO ball under his belt, plus almost a full season of D1. Where is this big improvement going to come from? Short of a miraculous change in attitude or work ethic, I just don't see either player transforming himself into something different that what we're already seeing.

I think Pitino's best hope to build a program is to land some quality HS recruits, and build from the ground up. If your program is on the verge of being really good, I'm not opposed to bringing in a JUCO as the last piece in the puzzle to make a title run. But for the current state of the Gopher program, I think JUCO's are the wrong way to go.
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I agree with most of what you say.
Where I differe is on the idea of JUCO's for next year. If he has 7-8 (or whatever scholarships available over the next year or two, I don't think it hurts to bring in a big presence if you can find one to help patch the gap and get the scholarships rebalanced on an yearly basis a bit more.

Normally though, I think the program is best built from the ground up as you said.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I find this ironic. One of the most frequent complaints on this board is that "Gopher players don't get better from year to year." Then, people turn around and start making these predictions about how "Buggs is going to improve next year," or "Morris will be better next year."

My response is: "based on what?" As Costa said, Buggs is no kid, and Morris has 2 years of JUCO ball under his belt, plus almost a full season of D1. Where is this big improvement going to come from? Short of a miraculous change in attitude or work ethic, I just don't see either player transforming himself into something different that what we're already seeing.

I think Pitino's best hope to build a program is to land some quality HS recruits, and build from the ground up. If your program is on the verge of being really good, I'm not opposed to bringing in a JUCO as the last piece in the puzzle to make a title run. But for the current state of the Gopher program, I think JUCO's are the wrong way to go.
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You probably don't want to bring in 7 or 8 freshman either. As it stands now, we'll have just 2 seniors and 1 junior next year. My guess is they will want to balance up the classes a little bit more with a JUCO or two and possibly a transfer.
 

GophersInIowa said:
You probably don't want to bring in 7 or 8 freshman either. As it stands now, we'll have just 2 seniors and 1 junior next year. My guess is they will want to balance up the classes a little bit more with a JUCO or two and possibly a transfer.
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No, you don't want to bring in 7 freshman. First of all, that's probably tough to do as recruits can see the crowding. Maybe KY can do that but those recruits know that two or three of the freshmen will only play one year and maybe another one or two will play only two years. For programs with players who typically play four years, if a freshman recruit with high potential loses a starting position to another freshman for the entire first year, there's a good chance of a transfer there.

Secondly, Pitino has at least had an advantage of relative physical maturity over his first two years. That strategy has worked very well for Hoiberg. Hoiberg has had a number of his traditional freshman recruits transfer over his time as ISU, but he maintains fairly high age and experience levels on his roster due to relatively large number of transfers and JUCOs. Of course, those players are also low risk because, even if they don't pan out so well, they take up a roster space for only one or two years.

And, yes, it is definitely worth balancing the roster between classes so you minimize the risk of big rebuilding years after large personnel losses.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I find this ironic. One of the most frequent complaints on this board is that "Gopher players don't get better from year to year." Then, people turn around and start making these predictions about how "Buggs is going to improve next year," or "Morris will be better next year."

My response is: "based on what?" As Costa said, Buggs is no kid, and Morris has 2 years of JUCO ball under his belt, plus almost a full season of D1. Where is this big improvement going to come from? Short of a miraculous change in attitude or work ethic, I just don't see either player transforming himself into something different that what we're already seeing.

I think Pitino's best hope to build a program is to land some quality HS recruits, and build from the ground up. If your program is on the verge of being really good, I'm not opposed to bringing in a JUCO as the last piece in the puzzle to make a title run. But for the current state of the Gopher program, I think JUCO's are the wrong way to go.
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I agree that guys just don't improve that often or that much. But if you agree with that then there is little difference in bringing in Juco or freshman because two more years of "development" doesn't really mean much. Better to get the best player regardless of JUCO or not, and if your stuck sifting through 2 and 3 star recruits it's easier to look at Juco's than it is HS's IMO. Plus if your hit rate on recruits becoming good players is less than 50% then your only locking up two scholarship years with the JUCO and you might be stuck 4 years (see Mo Walker/EE ) with a true freshman.
 

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