You make the call - do you fire Frost?

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Bob_Loblaw said:
Yeah, I think the scary thing is that it seems like Martinez likely won those competitions. I'd much rather play against Nebraska with Vedral or McCaffery than Martinez. I know Martinez is flawed, but Nebraska's bigger issue is that they couldn't recruit someone to take his spot.

I've seen it whispered a number of times on Nebraska message boards, I assume it's tongue-in-cheek, but some of their posters had alluded to the possibility that Martinez ends up here next year. I'm not trying to go all JD Spielman on this thread (but I will fly back to MPLS to keep an eye out at the Vu), but I don't know if there is some connection with Martinez and Fleck that I'm missing or if they are just throwing sh!t against the wall.
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Martinez in our offense would be interesting. He catches a lot of flack but he is a good player. Have never seen this particular rumor and doubt there is anything to it, but we have talked for a while here about what Fleck's offense would look like with a truly mobile QB and Adrian would certainly be that.
 

A case can certainly be made to fire Frost, but does that really help?

Nebraska has had problems with stability, which used to be a program strength. 3 head coaches in the past 8 years. Major scheme changes at times. They seem to lead the league in portal attrition. Firing the coach and starting over AGAIN is expensive in terms of money and even more lost/delayed progress.

Frost was "the guy". Native son, former star QB, record as a "QB guru", and a 13-0 season in just a few years in major coaching roles. Imagine if Tanner Morgan took Western Kentucky to a 13-0 season and "national championship" in 2040, then we hired him. Pretty exciting!

Who else takes that job? It's Big Ten so they will have lots of takers, but are any of those guys better positioned to stop the decline when their home-run hire could not? It's very unclear.

Nebraska gets easier crossovers next year - Rutgers, Indiana, Michigan (vs Ohio State, Michigan, MSU this year). That might give the W-L a lift next year. Though the schedule isn't much help when the program is still losing most of its West games.
 


I'm letting him hang around through 2022. There isn't a ton of fear that you're going to turn your fan base apathetic if they suck next year. So if you're not going to lose your fan base by keeping him, it seems reasonable to let him have one more go at it and see if he can turn it around. I don't know what their roster looks like and if they're projected to be better or worse next year.

Honestly, more concerning to me than the record is that he seems like a toxic guy with a toxic culture. He continually throws his players under the bus and seems like he hates what he's doing. If I'm firing him, it's probably for that moreso than his record.
 

Nebraska’s big problem lies in the fact that they have never become physical enough up front on offense or defense, I would contend. There was a time in the Big Eight when they were. Then, all that spread stuff took them out of “black shirt” mode and they increasingly tried to rely on, big play, throw the ball around, quick, flash-bang kind of offense. They were losing the battle to Oklahoma. They were much less about run the ball, option the heck out of Okie. As they did that their conference was becoming all about offense, less about stopping the run and they tended to become softer up front on offense & defense.

And, Dr. Tom was always there, looking over the shoulder of every coach they hired. Kind of like the ghost of Bear Bryant@ Alabama. Nobody compared very well to Dr. Tom in the eyes of the boosters. They tried to fire their way to success.

Where was Frost learning to be a coach? He had been a qb. Who had a crazier, speed kills, wide open offense than Oregon?

I think Frost is attempting o make Nebby a bit more physical team. But they still are not focused on running the ball and especially stopping the run.
Moving into the BT West, they run into Wisky, Iowa, Minnesota (now hell-bent on running the ball & stopping the run), Northwestern when playing well is very physical on defense.

Illinois, will be focusing on becoming more physical, and if Purdue ever manages to start running the ball and stopping the run, might begin to make some noise in the Western division.

throw in cross over games against the East with Ohio State, PSU, Michigan & MSU and the need to become PHYSICAL becomes even more vital for Nebby.

Not being quite physical enough yet is probably why Frost has lost so many one score BT games during his tenure to date.

Just one old guy’s probably outdated opinion.

Personally, I think if Trev pulls the plug on Frost he will be decreasing stability for players on the Nebby Squad
 


I would give Frost one more year.

They should of made Craig Bohl their head coach after Frank Solich.
 

imthewalrus said:
Nebraska’s big problem lies in the fact that they have never become physical enough up front on offense or defense, I would contend. There was a time in the Big Eight when they were. Then, all that spread stuff took them out of “black shirt” mode and they increasingly tried to rely on, big play, throw the ball around, quick, flash-bang kind of offense. They were losing the battle to Oklahoma. They were much less about run the ball, option the heck out of Okie. As they did that their conference was becoming all about offense, less about stopping the run and they tended to become softer up front on offense & defense.

And, Dr. Tom was always there, looking over the shoulder of every coach they hired. Kind of like the ghost of Bear Bryant@ Alabama. Nobody compared very well to Dr. Tom in the eyes of the boosters. They tried to fire their way to success.

Where was Frost learning to be a coach? He had been a qb. Who had a crazier, speed kills, wide open offense than Oregon?

I think Frost is attempting o make Nebby a bit more physical team. But they still are not focused on running the ball and especially stopping the run.
Moving into the BT West, they run into Wisky, Iowa, Minnesota (now hell-bent on running the ball & stopping the run), Northwestern when playing well is very physical on defense.

Illinois, will be focusing on becoming more physical, and if Purdue ever manages to start running the ball and stopping the run, might begin to make some noise in the Western division.

throw in cross over games against the East with Ohio State, PSU, Michigan & MSU and the need to become PHYSICAL becomes even more vital for Nebby.

Not being quite physical enough yet is probably why Frost has lost so many one score BT games during his tenure to date.

Just one old guy’s probably outdated opinion.

Personally, I think if Trev pulls the plug on Frost he will be decreasing stability for players on the Nebby Squad
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I don't think you're wrong.

Nebraska seems soft. They have a lot of talent but they honestly remind me of Maryland. Talent but soft.
 

Word said:
I mentioned this back when we played Nebraska. I talked to 2 random Nebraska fans at the game and asked if they thought Frost would get fired and they looked at me like I was even nuts for asking such a question. They said "Frosty is our guy". They really couldn't think of a reason why I'd suggest such a thing (so I mentioned their record under Frost and the NCAA investigation). They said the NCAA thing was nothing.

No idea if they represent the whole fan base though.
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Perhaps some GH fans don’t really know what some Nebby fans really think about Frost?
 




I know plenty of Nebraska fans and I would say most still want Frost as coach and desperately want him to win.
 

Word said:
Not sure what you mean.
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Perhaps they are more patient than some here think they could be or are with Frost.

Trev Alberts was also a Nebby great player. Maybe he is a Frost buddy, fan and wants to create some stability as an AD.

Maybe the long shadow of Dr. Tom is thinking: “…Frosty & Trev will figure this thing out…”
 

imthewalrus said:
Perhaps they are more patient than some here think they could be or are with Frost.

Trev Alberts was also a Nebby great player. Maybe he is a stormy AD.

Maybe the long shadow of Dr. Tom is thinking: “…Frosty & Trev will figure this thing out…”
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For sure...I was just more shocked that they couldn't even fathom why an outsider would ask them that question.
 

Only if I have Matt Campbell, Luke Fickell or someone similar lined-up.
 



I get it, but who would actually go there to replace him?
 

imthewalrus said:
Nebraska’s big problem lies in the fact that they have never become physical enough up front on offense or defense, I would contend. There was a time in the Big Eight when they were. Then, all that spread stuff took them out of “black shirt” mode and they increasingly tried to rely on, big play, throw the ball around, quick, flash-bang kind of offense. They were losing the battle to Oklahoma. They were much less about run the ball, option the heck out of Okie. As they did that their conference was becoming all about offense, less about stopping the run and they tended to become softer up front on offense & defense.

And, Dr. Tom was always there, looking over the shoulder of every coach they hired. Kind of like the ghost of Bear Bryant@ Alabama. Nobody compared very well to Dr. Tom in the eyes of the boosters. They tried to fire their way to success.

Where was Frost learning to be a coach? He had been a qb. Who had a crazier, speed kills, wide open offense than Oregon?

I think Frost is attempting o make Nebby a bit more physical team. But they still are not focused on running the ball and especially stopping the run.
Moving into the BT West, they run into Wisky, Iowa, Minnesota (now hell-bent on running the ball & stopping the run), Northwestern when playing well is very physical on defense.

Illinois, will be focusing on becoming more physical, and if Purdue ever manages to start running the ball and stopping the run, might begin to make some noise in the Western division.

throw in cross over games against the East with Ohio State, PSU, Michigan & MSU and the need to become PHYSICAL becomes even more vital for Nebby.

Not being quite physical enough yet is probably why Frost has lost so many one score BT games during his tenure to date.

Just one old guy’s probably outdated opinion.

Personally, I think if Trev pulls the plug on Frost he will be decreasing stability for players on the Nebby Squad
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They played that way through Pelini. Mike Riley tried to change the offense to a Pro-style offense, if that's what you mean by spread.
 

If Alberts feels like he has is replacement, the 20 million won’t be a problem for their boosters. The success of that program is so important financially to the city and state they will have the money. The question is who is the “guy” to get Alberts to make the move. The names I’ve seen thrown around most as potential replacements are:
Dave Aranda
Bill O’Brien
Luke Fickelll
Chris Petersen (rumors are he is recharged and open to coaching again)
Bob Stoops (supposedly considering coaching again and sees Nebraska as a job someone could come in and have some initial success right away to make fans happy(I.e, compete for West championship, unlike LSU or USC where national title or bust)
Mark Stoops
Gary Patterson

Question is which if any of these guys can they get. They can sell to coaches new facilities under construction, a top 10 NIL revenue for recruits, etc..
 

The amazing thing is that they fired Solich and Pelini, both over .700 (Bierman territory). I'd give Frost one more year because I've always believed a new coach should get five years, which was the old standard. This year he's had his best team, played Oklahoma even, outplayed MSU (shut them down completely in the second half, but lost on a punt return), played Michigan even. There is an NCAA investigation, but the buyout is huge if he hasn't broken the rules.
 

I have two reasons to keep him: Beat Wisconsin. Beat Iowa.

Nebraska is without a dearth of talent after stocking piling 4-Star recruits.
They recruited well: 2017 #23; 2018 #23; 2019 #17; 2020 #20; 2021 #20.

What needs to improve - coaching and culture? Their six Big Ten losses are by 3 to 8 points. Their record could have easily flipped and they could have been a contender.

Firing him at the end of the season is a double-edged sword at best. I supposed the huge buyout is a sticking point. Can they fire him for a just cause with the NCAA violations?

Trev Alberts will keep him an extra year.
 

I think really the question to me is more around 2 factors (in addition to if I have the money): has he lost the team and has he lost the fanbase
on part 1, based on some comments this week made by JoJo Dohman after Frost said something to the effect of that passion/heart were an issue, I'd be pretty worried about this aspect. you'll be able to tell a lot by how they come out against OSU, especially if they get punched in the mouth early. In reality, if the players want to play and win, they're still going to try. The "quitting on the coach" phenomenon works if the locker room has no leaders but this Nebraska group of players seems to at least have a few. You couple this with some of their high profile guys transferring out (Robinson, Spielman, McCaffery) and it is worrisome that Frost wears on his players, which is not a good sign to me as an AD
on part 2, seems like the fanbase is turning on him. if you lose the fanbase, you lose your revenue. they're lucky in that Nebraska has nothing else and has some proud fans who still wear their varsity jackets even when they're shit. In MN, the stadium would've been empty by now (just basing this on our past experiences when we're bad). If you lose them, getting them back is going to be rough.

Given the above 2, I fire him unless he rallies them over the last 3 games and you have some positive fan vibes going into next year. Otherwise he's gone
 


imthewalrus said:
Nebraska’s big problem lies in the fact that they have never become physical enough up front on offense or defense, I would contend. There was a time in the Big Eight when they were. Then, all that spread stuff took them out of “black shirt” mode and they increasingly tried to rely on, big play, throw the ball around, quick, flash-bang kind of offense. They were losing the battle to Oklahoma. They were much less about run the ball, option the heck out of Okie. As they did that their conference was becoming all about offense, less about stopping the run and they tended to become softer up front on offense & defense.

And, Dr. Tom was always there, looking over the shoulder of every coach they hired. Kind of like the ghost of Bear Bryant@ Alabama. Nobody compared very well to Dr. Tom in the eyes of the boosters. They tried to fire their way to success.

Where was Frost learning to be a coach? He had been a qb. Who had a crazier, speed kills, wide open offense than Oregon?

I think Frost is attempting o make Nebby a bit more physical team. But they still are not focused on running the ball and especially stopping the run.
Moving into the BT West, they run into Wisky, Iowa, Minnesota (now hell-bent on running the ball & stopping the run), Northwestern when playing well is very physical on defense.

Illinois, will be focusing on becoming more physical, and if Purdue ever manages to start running the ball and stopping the run, might begin to make some noise in the Western division.

throw in cross over games against the East with Ohio State, PSU, Michigan & MSU and the need to become PHYSICAL becomes even more vital for Nebby.

Not being quite physical enough yet is probably why Frost has lost so many one score BT games during his tenure to date.

Just one old guy’s probably outdated opinion.

Personally, I think if Trev pulls the plug on Frost he will be decreasing stability for players on the Nebby Squad
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I agree on the physicality aspect, which I find a bit ironic because during the Devaney and Osborne eras, there probably wasn't a more physical team in the country than Nebraska. I would argue that they were the model for teams like Iowa and Wisconsin with the difference being Osborne ran the option while Iowa and Wisconsin have employed more of a pro-set, but it was all based on pounding the rock. After all, they don't call it the Rimington Award because Dave Rimington majored in modern dance.

Where I differ with you a bit is in Osborne's role with subsequent coaches. I think you're right that the fan base couldn't help but make comparisons between the current coach and Osborne, but Osborne had worked with Solich until the barbarians rebelled and I've read several times that the Regents wanted Pelini gone due to his sideline meltdowns, but that Osborne kept intervening on Bo's behalf. It was only when the video (or was it audio) was leaked that Pelini became radioactive and that no amount of help from Osborne was going to help him.
 

Depends on the buyout situation. If the finances are somehow cleared up, I don't care at all how the end of the season plays out, I'd want Frost and his antics gone. I mean, Nebraska still gets respectable recruiting rankings but they can't let this program both continue losing and have a d-bag coach with ncaa investigations. IMO, the best hire would just be someone with a good reputation. The wins, that's a tougher one, and probably requires capturing lightning in a bottle or a few years to become respectable again.
 

50PoundHead said:
I agree on the physicality aspect, which I find a bit ironic because during the Devaney and Osborne eras, there probably wasn't a more physical team in the country than Nebraska. I would argue that they were the model for teams like Iowa and Wisconsin with the difference being Osborne ran the option while Iowa and Wisconsin have employed more of a pro-set, but it was all based on pounding the rock. After all, they don't call it the Rimington Award because Dave Rimington majored in modern dance.

Where I differ with you a bit is in Osborne's role with subsequent coaches. I think you're right that the fan base couldn't help but make comparisons between the current coach and Osborne, but Osborne had worked with Solich until the barbarians rebelled and I've read several times that the Regents wanted Pelini gone due to his sideline meltdowns, but that Osborne kept intervening on Bo's behalf. It was only when the video (or was it audio) was leaked that Pelini became radioactive and that no amount of help from Osborne was going to help him.
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Re: Dr. Tom. I believe that his larger than life in Nebraska (his political career and the much larger than life amount of respect, admiration and hero worship that he commanded with the citizens of CornHusker Nation made it almost impossible for for any Coach following him to ever claim that program for his own.

Remember, there were some kinds of things that happened under Dr. Tom’s watch in that program that were not pretty that the fan base always just ignored. It is ironic that the regents wanted blood in the shortcomings of Bo, yet never did cringe with anything that happened under the good Dr. Tom’s watch. (Not defending Bo…but Tom really could do no wrong in spite of some of the actions of players he won with during his super star run at Nebby.

He even came back to “save the dynasty” after part of the the musical chairs period of coaching changes, didn’t he?

I really think that until Nebby can run the ball and stop the run on the level other BT West teams and cross over East teams can, it will be a struggle for Nebby in the BT.

I think Frost MAY be making some progress, but will it be enough in the next year or two for Nebby to challenge in the West?

Is the Dr. Tom worship wearing off for Coach Frost and AD Trev that they had for him as his players? Is that part of the problem?

Will they be able to overcome their hero worship of Tom and be the adults that take that program beyond Tom’s program and make it their own program?
 
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The Big Ten West isn't getting any easier. Every team is improving.

Nebraska has to get off the Nineties Clubhouse and fix Husker Football. Their problems are self-inflicted.

PJ Fleck hit the jackpot on the Transfer Portal. I always thought early in the season that the key this year is injuries.
 




fmlizard said:
A case can certainly be made to fire Frost, but does that really help?

Nebraska has had problems with stability, which used to be a program strength. 3 head coaches in the past 8 years. Major scheme changes at times. They seem to lead the league in portal attrition. Firing the coach and starting over AGAIN is expensive in terms of money and even more lost/delayed progress.

Frost was "the guy". Native son, former star QB, record as a "QB guru", and a 13-0 season in just a few years in major coaching roles. Imagine if Tanner Morgan took Western Kentucky to a 13-0 season and "national championship" in 2040, then we hired him. Pretty exciting!

Who else takes that job? It's Big Ten so they will have lots of takers, but are any of those guys better positioned to stop the decline when their home-run hire could not? It's very unclear.

Nebraska gets easier crossovers next year - Rutgers, Indiana, Michigan (vs Ohio State, Michigan, MSU this year). That might give the W-L a lift next year. Though the schedule isn't much help when the program is still losing most of its West games.
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And OU this year in non-conf. Brutal.

So that alone might be enough to give him a one year reprieve.
 

Goldmember said:
Only if I have Matt Campbell, Luke Fickell or someone similar lined-up.
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Hopefully both of those know they have much better things waiting for them, if they have the patience to wait.
 

Even though this year is another disaster, I wouldn't fire him yet either. This is the same coach that put together an undefeated year at UCF. I try and always remember the Frank Beamer story. He was 24-40-2 in his first 6 years at Virginia Tech. Then he turned it around, big time. And brought them to the brink of a national championship. Ended with a 238–121–2 record at the school.

We also need to remember Frost is a young coach that found immediate success at his previous job. So this is a learning experience for him as well. I think he can do just fine at Nebraska given some more rope. But I totally acknowledge this isn't a fan base that exudes patience.
 

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