Y'all think PJ regrets not handing over the OC/play calling reigns to Matt Simon?

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GopherEnEspaña

GopherEnEspaña

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It's really starting to look like Kirk Ciarrocca was riding the wave left by a veteran OL, Bateman, TJ, Rodney Smith & company during the 2019 season. Especially in the passing game - he had two big outside WR's that could give you YAC's and take it to the house on any play. Made his RPO slant game seem explosive. I'm not throwing all the blame at KC's feet, and I know we have a FR QB, but it's a broader trend that's tough to ignore no matter who's behind center.
 

Matt Simon should be the first fired. In his time at Minnesota he has recruited 2 good players at his position and developed 3

You think turning to the guy in charge of the wideouts is the solution? Lol

He currently is the co-OC
And he was the co—OC the past few years of bad offense as well

Though I did agree last winter and still that I would’ve liked to hire an outside person not KC or MS
I trust fleck. He can run his program how he wants. I’m not ready to quit on him
 

PJs weakest point is not game management decisions. Even worse it has been his hiring. Rossi excluded from that generalization.
 

I dunno I think it was Remember Murray who kept saying it wasn’t Sanford, it was PJ. Maybe he was right? I want the 2019 version of offense, that was run oriented but fun to watch!
 

NotAFanOfBecky said:
I dunno I think it was Remember Murray who kept saying it wasn’t Sanford, it was PJ. Maybe he was right? I want the 2019 version of offense, that was run oriented but fun to watch!
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I kept saying that and was widely ridiculed for it
 




NotAFanOfBecky said:
I stand corrected, I certainly think you are nailed it.
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He is what he is.
I think we CAN win with this style.

You can certainly lose trying to win with a non defensive style too.
You can win multiple ways and lose multiple ways. This style not pleasing to the eyes.
There is a reason some Ohio state fans were glad tressel left even though he was great
 

NotAFanOfBecky said:
I stand corrected, I certainly think you are nailed it.
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It's still a bad take. Look at what happened to Tanner's performance between last year and this year. His completion percentage and QBR both went right back to where they were in 2019. KC can't do anything about the receiver room or offensive line and he can't fix Crab's knee.

KC is calling the best offense he can given the complete lack of receiving talent on the roster.

The Gophers put up 400 yards in offense on the best defense in the country last week. They averaged 6 ypc against a team that held OSU to 2. For comparison, they averaged less than 6 yards per pass. It would have been insane to stop running the ball. The offensive coordinator wasn't the problem. Turnovers and special teams were.

And before y'all jump down my throat with "yards aren't points". You're right. But they are predictive of future points, which is why y'all shouldn't be panicked over that game.

Moreover, y'all act like 2019 was a mirage while completely ignoring what PJ did to win this job. He hasn't hit his ceiling at Minnesota yet. I don't know that he hits it next year either, but this dude can coach and I don't understand how y'all are still questioning that.

Bad coaches don't win 12 games at WMU and 11 games at Minnesota.
 
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hello-world said:
It's still a bad take. Look at what happened to Tanner's performance between last year and this year. His completion percentage and QBR both went right back to where they were in 2019. KC can't do anything about the receiver room or offensive line and he can't fix Crab's knee.

KC is calling the best offense he can given the complete lack of receiving talent on the roster.

The Gophers put up 400 yards in offense on the best defense in the country last week. They averaged 6 ypc against a team that held OSU to 2. For comparison, they averaged less than 6 yards per pass. It would have been insane to stop running the ball. The offensive coordinator wasn't the problem. Turnovers and special teams were.

And before y'all jump down my throat with "yards aren't points". You're right. But they are predictive of future points, which is why y'all shouldn't be panicked over that game.

Moreover, y'all act like 2019 was a mirage while completely ignoring what PJ did to win this job. He hasn't hit his ceiling at Minnesota yet. I don't know that he hits it next year either, but this dude can coach and I don't understand how y'all are still questioning that.

Bad coaches don't win 12 games at WMU and 11 games at Minnesota.
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You might be related to one of the coaches or to Morgan or someone like that. Slanted, bad takes.
 

hello-world said:
It's still a bad take. Look at what happened to Tanner's performance between last year and this year. His completion percentage and QBR both went right back to where they were in 2019. KC can't do anything about the receiver room or offensive line and he can't fix Crab's knee.

KC is calling the best offense he can given the complete lack of receiving talent on the roster.

The Gophers put up 400 yards in offense on the best defense in the country last week. They averaged 6 ypc against a team that held OSU to 2. For comparison, they averaged less than 6 yards per pass. It would have been insane to stop running the ball. The offensive coordinator wasn't the problem. Turnovers and special teams were.

And before y'all jump down my throat with "yards aren't points". You're right. But they are predictive of future points, which is why y'all shouldn't be panicked over that game.

Moreover, y'all act like 2019 was a mirage while completely ignoring what PJ did to win this job. He hasn't hit his ceiling at Minnesota yet. I don't know that he hits it next year either, but this dude can coach and I don't understand how y'all are still questioning that.

Bad coaches don't win 12 games at WMU and 11 games at Minnesota.
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Good coaches don’t lost to 31-point dogs. At home.
 

TheNorthernAmir said:
It's really starting to look like Kirk Ciarrocca was riding the wave left by a veteran OL, Bateman, TJ, Rodney Smith & company during the 2019 season. Especially in the passing game - he had two big outside WR's that could give you YAC's and take it to the house on any play. Made his RPO slant game seem explosive. I'm not throwing all the blame at KC's feet, and I know we have a FR QB, but it's a broader trend that's tough to ignore no matter who's behind center.
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He did get fired after 1 year at PS... just sayin
 
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Some guy said:
Matt Simon should be the first fired. In his time at Minnesota he has recruited 2 good players at his position and developed 3

You think turning to the guy in charge of the wideouts is the solution? Lol

He currently is the co-OC
And he was the co—OC the past few years of bad offense as well

Though I did agree last winter and still that I would’ve liked to hire an outside person not KC or MS
I trust fleck. He can run his program how he wants. I’m not ready to quit on him
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Yes, we get it you dont like Simon...your take makes zero sense.

Not sure how he develops WR's has anything to do with how the would run the offense.

Hes co-oc, but we have no clue what that means or to what capacity hes involved.

To say any of these points is a strike against him as an OC is idiotic.

Continue with your weird hatred for Simon though.
 



hello-world said:
It's still a bad take. Look at what happened to Tanner's performance between last year and this year. His completion percentage and QBR both went right back to where they were in 2019. KC can't do anything about the receiver room or offensive line and he can't fix Crab's knee.

KC is calling the best offense he can given the complete lack of receiving talent on the roster.

The Gophers put up 400 yards in offense on the best defense in the country last week. They averaged 6 ypc against a team that held OSU to 2. For comparison, they averaged less than 6 yards per pass. It would have been insane to stop running the ball. The offensive coordinator wasn't the problem. Turnovers and special teams were.

And before y'all jump down my throat with "yards aren't points". You're right. But they are predictive of future points, which is why y'all shouldn't be panicked over that game.

Moreover, y'all act like 2019 was a mirage while completely ignoring what PJ did to win this job. He hasn't hit his ceiling at Minnesota yet. I don't know that he hits it next year either, but this dude can coach and I don't understand how y'all are still questioning that.

Bad coaches don't win 12 games at WMU and 11 games at Minnesota.
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Talk about BAAAAAD takes, this is a glaring one. He played in 8 games; 5 of them against pathetic teams, with 4 of them out of conference when they didn't play anyone!

He looked horrible against Nebraska and they won because he got hurt. He looked horrible against Purdue.

I love the guy BUT KC didn't bring back the Tanner from 2019.
 
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DanvilleGopher said:
Talk about BAAAAAD takes, this is a glaring one. He played in 8 games; 5 of them against pathetic teams, with 4 of them out of conference when they didn't play anyone at all!

He looked horrible against Nebraska and they only won because he got hurt. He looked horrible against Purdue. I think we watched different games?

I love the guy BUT KC didn't bring back the Tanner from 2019.
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He was actually -more- accurate this year than he was in 2019 and his QBR this year was higher than any year except for 2019.

Can't just write off his blowout wins. They might have been against bad teams but that 2019 team barely survived several games against midling teams as well.

Tanner absolutely looked better this year than in 2020 or 2021. Which is exactly what we were looking for in getting rid of Sanford.

That part worked. Other parts didn't. KC can still coach a good offense. They moved the ball at will against a very good defense last week.

No matter what has happened with the offense this year. Losing their WR1, losing their QB, losing Mo for a game, the offense has never looked as panicked and poorly run as it was last year.

Yeah offense looked bad against Purdue. It was missing CRAB and Mo. Yeah, they lost to a good Illini team. Tanner went down in the second half and Athan immediately came in and threw a pick. And yeah, they lost to Iowa, with a Freshman QB during his second start.

The sky is falling crowd is getting way over the top here and has been that way all season.

Don't trust me? Listen to what other coaches say about PJ. Dude is a good ball coach. Everyone from Mason on down will tell you that. There's a reason every shot is at his personality.
 
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hello-world said:
It's still a bad take. Look at what happened to Tanner's performance between last year and this year. His completion percentage and QBR both went right back to where they were in 2019. KC can't do anything about the receiver room or offensive line and he can't fix Crab's knee.

KC is calling the best offense he can given the complete lack of receiving talent on the roster.

The Gophers put up 400 yards in offense on the best defense in the country last week. They averaged 6 ypc against a team that held OSU to 2. For comparison, they averaged less than 6 yards per pass. It would have been insane to stop running the ball. The offensive coordinator wasn't the problem. Turnovers and special teams were.

And before y'all jump down my throat with "yards aren't points". You're right. But they are predictive of future points, which is why y'all shouldn't be panicked over that game.

Moreover, y'all act like 2019 was a mirage while completely ignoring what PJ did to win this job. He hasn't hit his ceiling at Minnesota yet. I don't know that he hits it next year either, but this dude can coach and I don't understand how y'all are still questioning that.

Bad coaches don't win 12 games at WMU and 11 games at Minnesota.
Click to expand...
I have said this in a couple other threads, 2019 is starting to look more like an anomaly for Fleck. As for Morgan, in the last three years passing he has 24 TDs and 19 INTs.
 


PMWinSTP said:
I have said this in a couple other threads, 2019 is starting to look more like an anomaly for Fleck. As for Morgan, in the last three years passing he has 24 TDs and 19 INTs.
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Don't you get it... that has nothing to do with Morgan, that's all on the baaaaad receivers and the OC we had to fire as he was making Morgan look so baaaaaaad.
 

GoldenUMNGopher said:
Yes, we get it you dont like Simon...your take makes zero sense.

Not sure how he develops WR's has anything to do with how the would run the offense.

Hes co-oc, but we have no clue what that means or to what capacity hes involved.

To say any of these points is a strike against him as an OC is idiotic.

Continue with your weird hatred for Simon though.
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Don’t hate Simon. Don’t need him fired. But if I had to choose to promote or fire the worst position coach on the team I would opt not promote
 


hello-world said:
It's still a bad take. Look at what happened to Tanner's performance between last year and this year. His completion percentage and QBR both went right back to where they were in 2019. KC can't do anything about the receiver room or offensive line and he can't fix Crab's knee.

KC is calling the best offense he can given the complete lack of receiving talent on the roster.

The Gophers put up 400 yards in offense on the best defense in the country last week. They averaged 6 ypc against a team that held OSU to 2. For comparison, they averaged less than 6 yards per pass. It would have been insane to stop running the ball. The offensive coordinator wasn't the problem. Turnovers and special teams were.

And before y'all jump down my throat with "yards aren't points". You're right. But they are predictive of future points, which is why y'all shouldn't be panicked over that game.

Moreover, y'all act like 2019 was a mirage while completely ignoring what PJ did to win this job. He hasn't hit his ceiling at Minnesota yet. I don't know that he hits it next year either, but this dude can coach and I don't understand how y'all are still questioning that.

Bad coaches don't win 12 games at WMU and 11 games at Minnesota.
Click to expand...
I don’t think PJ is a bad coach at all. I like him as our coach. I want him to balance the offense more. You might be right that the receivers are bad, but when I see games live I see plenty of time guys are wide open and they don’t throw it. That’s not their fault. Also, if it’s run and run all the time we don’t know if the receivers are bad because they are not passing. We have a very good TE and we didn’t throw too much to him this year. It’s the threat of a pass, the mixing it up that keeps the defense honest. Otherwise you get 9-10 in the box and you get Bowling Green 2.0. I just don’t think that’s a good recipe for success. Now just to be clear I’m not talking about Iowa per say because the run was working, I’m talking about in totality of these last few years. It seems the style has changed from what it was when Fleck came in initially to these last few years. There were bubble screens and quick slants (which I have occasionally still seen) and crossing routes consistently. Time will tell if it’s on the lack of receiving talent. Personally I do think there is some talent at receiver. Is it Bateman and Johnson? No of course not, but I don’t think it needs to be to have some degree of passing competence.
 

TheNorthernAmir said:
It's really starting to look like Kirk Ciarrocca was riding the wave left by a veteran OL, Bateman, TJ, Rodney Smith & company during the 2019 season. Especially in the passing game - he had two big outside WR's that could give you YAC's and take it to the house on any play. Made his RPO slant game seem explosive. I'm not throwing all the blame at KC's feet, and I know we have a FR QB, but it's a broader trend that's tough to ignore no matter who's behind center.
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No. Ciarrocca is running the Offense/Play Calling as dictated by Fleck. Just as Sanford did. Just as Simon would.

If Fleck wanted more passes all he has to do is say into the headset, "Throw more."
 

Whatever the reason, whoever is calling the plays (and ultimately Fleck) doesn't trust the passing game. I can't even recall the last time we threw the ball when in the red zone. The DJ9 red zone INT (Purdue?) is the last red zone pass I can recall. That tells you all you need to know.
 

Wasn't there some talk here at one time (right around the time Fleck hired Sanford) that Simon didn't want to be thee OC?
Just a vague recollection, and too flustered to look back. The use of the word "Y'all" in the thread title and in the comments has gotten my mind off track.
 

Ope3 said:
No. Ciarrocca is running the Offense/Play Calling as dictated by Fleck. Just as Sanford did. Just as Simon would.

If Fleck wanted more passes all he has to do is say into the headset, "Throw more."
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Kirk has outright said that he believes players make plays and he doesn't call plays if he thinks they can't make them.
 

GopherPete said:
Whatever the reason, whoever is calling the plays (and ultimately Fleck) doesn't trust the passing game. I can't even recall the last time we threw the ball when in the red zone. The DJ9 red zone INT (Purdue?) is the last red zone pass I can recall. That tells you all you need to know.
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Our o-line could not pass block at all in some big games. No qb had a chance in those games. Like Cousins vs the Cowboys.
 

Some guy said:
He is what he is.
I think we CAN win with this style.

You can certainly lose trying to win with a non defensive style too.
You can win multiple ways and lose multiple ways. This style not pleasing to the eyes.
There is a reason some Ohio state fans were glad tressel left even though he was great
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We beat Rutgers 31-0 and I gave my tickets away to a young family. I asked if it was fun. They said it was kind of a boring game and there was not one exciting play really.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Kirk has outright said that he believes players make plays and he doesn't call plays if he thinks they can't make them.
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I would expect/hope that to be the philosophy of every Offensive Coordinator/Play Caller.
 

Ope3 said:
I would expect/hope that to be the philosophy of every Offensive Coordinator/Play Caller.
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It certainly seems to fit our passing game. I don't trust it ...

Granted I think we also saw Jackson get more targets too as he seemed to improve too... goes both ways. Players can open it up, but they gotta show they can do it.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
It certainly seems to fit our passing game. I don't trust it ...

Granted I think we also saw Jackson get more targets too as he seemed to improve too... goes both ways. Players can open it up, but they gotta show they can do it.
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As constituted, I don't trust it much either. Clearly, running is their strength this year. Healthy Autman-Bell and Morgan, and I am sure it would still be run heavy but a little more balanced.

If I had one critique of the game plan on Saturday, it would have been to play with more tempo in the 2nd and 3rd Quarters with momentum and a NW wind. Not necessarily a higher ratio of passes, just not drain the play clock every play. Could have had a little more time to finish the drive off at the end of the half, and/or gotten another possession in the 3rd Q.
 
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