Would you support Coyle giving Fleck a raise and extension to keep him at MN?

[MplsGopher]

What is it you would like Fleck to say?

i already answered this. I said something that has a flavor of truth to it.

You then said that would serve no "purpose".

Why? What does "purpose" even mean, there??

 

[SHGopher]

MaxyJr posted matter of factly about a shortly coming extension/raise.

I'm hoping that was just an "assertion of desire" thing, and not actual reality.

We will see

A signature event for Minnesota.

Fleck flops, Coyle extends.

How about hold, deal the cards. We'll talk then.

 

[RememberMurray]

i already answered this. I said something that has a flavor of truth to it.

Oh. 'Something' truthful. As opposed to... something dishonest?

You then said that would serve no "purpose".

Why? What does "purpose" even mean, there??

It would serve no purpose from Fleck's point of view to reveal details of his discussions with UCLA, if indeed there were any discussions. Fleck has every right to consider the ramifications of any public statement he makes, and his statement is pretty much what any coach would say publicly in this situation.

I'm sorry, but I don't see anything dishonest in what he said.

 

[MplsGopher]

As opposed to...

The statements I made up -- exactly the things Fleck would say -- are zero information, zero sincerity, zero genuine.

It would serve no purpose from Fleck's point of view to reveal details of his discussions with UCLA, if indeed there were any discussions.

What. Purpose. ???

Define purpose. How are you able to use the word yet completely incapable of defining what it means here??

Fleck has every right to consider the ramifications of any public statement he makes

What ramifications?

, and his statement is pretty much what any coach would say publicly in this situation.

Possibly. Doesn't justify anything though

but I don't see anything dishonest in what he said.

He didn't say those things. You know this, yes?

 

[short ornery norwegian]

speaking of raises, Ryan Burns recently posted a long article on Gopher Illustrated, examining what MN pays its assistant coaches compared to the rest of the B1G.

in 2023, of the 12 schools that report data (Northwestern and Penn State do not) MN was last in its assistant coaches' salary pool.

of the incoming schools, UCLA, Washington and Oregon paid more than MN in 2023. USC did not report. so MN is last among 15 teams reporting. If we take an educated guess that Northwestern is last, and Penn State and USC likely pay more than MN, then MN is 17th of 18 schools in assistant coach salary pool.

and in 2024 - MN's assistant coach salary pool is actually less than 2023 because the new DC is paid less than the old DC. (MN also got $300,000 from MSU to buy out Rossi)

while Coyle gets a raise and an extension.

 

[RememberMurray]

The statements I made up -- exactly the things Fleck would say -- are zero information, zero sincerity, zero genuine.


What. Purpose. ???

Define purpose. How are you able to use the word yet completely incapable of defining what it means here??


What ramifications?


Possibly. Doesn't justify anything though


He didn't say those things. You know this, yes?

Wow.

You seem very comfortable making up or predicting things Fleck will say. Let me know if you ever do come up with exactly what it is that you think Fleck should say. Be specific.

I won't hold my breath waiting.

 

[RememberMurray]

speaking of raises, Ryan Burns recently posted a long article on Gopher Illustrated, examining what MN pays its assistant coaches compared to the rest of the B1G.

in 2023, of the 12 schools that report data (Northwestern and Penn State do not) MN was last in its assistant coaches' salary pool.

of the incoming schools, UCLA, Washington and Oregon paid more than MN in 2023. USC did not report. so MN is last among 15 teams reporting. If we take an educated guess that Northwestern is last, and Penn State and USC likely pay more than MN, then MN is 17th of 18 schools in assistant coach salary pool.

and in 2024 - MN's assistant coach salary pool is actually less than 2023 because the new DC is paid less than the old DC. (MN also got $300,000 from MSU to buy out Rossi)

while Coyle gets a raise and an extension.

Is this for all sports, or for all mens sports, or for football only, or...?

 

[EasyThere Pilgrim]

Memories are short. Often only a few days...like opinions changing game-by-game. So of course most want him fired after a mediocre season.

We can't expect fans to remember how Gopher football was for 50 years before Fleck.

But reality is...you only fire Fleck if you have an absolute home-run hire set up. And I don't know who that could possibly be. In the past there was maybe Tony Dungy or something like that. But no, you don't replace Fleck with a standard hire. You extend him.

 

[MplsGopher]

Let me know if you ever do come up with exactly what it is that you think Fleck should say.

I already answered this. I said something that has a flavor of truth to it.

You then said that would serve no "purpose".

Why? What does "purpose" even mean, there??

 

[MplsGopher]

So of course most want him fired after a mediocre season.

Not true.

I do think most would have been OK if he left for UCLA.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Is this for all sports, or for all mens sports, or for football only, or...?

sorry - football only. I thought that was understood since the thread was about giving Fleck a raise.

you can find the article on Gopher Illustrated. It covers the salary pool for the 10 primary assistant coaches allowed for football.

based on what Burns could discover (private schools are not required to disclose salaries), Burns determined that the Gophers assistant coaches for Football are among the lowest-paid in the B1G.

 

[RememberMurray]

sorry - football only. I thought that was understood since the thread was about giving Fleck a raise.

you can find the article on Gopher Illustrated. It covers the salary pool for the 10 primary assistant coaches allowed for football.

based on what Burns could discover (private schools are not required to disclose salaries), Burns determined that the Gophers assistant coaches for Football are among the lowest-paid in the B1G.

Wow. Not to be Captain Obvious, but assistants are crucial. This story is very disquieting to me.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Wow. Not to be Captain Obvious, but assistants are crucial. This story is very disquieting to me.

do you listen to the Gopher Gridiron Podcast or the Pair and a Spare Podcast? Burns appears on both of those pods, and he has been talking about the assistant coach salary issue for several years. He has said that the low salaries at MN are one of the reasons why Fleck has had so much turnover on his staff. If you believe him, he says coaches have privately citied salaries as one reason for leaving MN for different jobs. Joe Rossi got a $350,000 raise at MSU for a lateral move - DC to DC.
that may not be head coach money, but $350,000 is real money in my book.

 

[RememberMurray]

do you listen to the Gopher Gridiron Podcast or the Pair and a Spare Podcast? Burns appears on both of those pods, and he has been talking about the assistant coach salary issue for several years. He has said that the low salaries at MN are one of the reasons why Fleck has had so much turnover on his staff. If you believe him, he says coaches have privately citied salaries as one reason for leaving MN for different jobs. Joe Rossi got a $350,000 raise at MSU for a lateral move - DC to DC.
that may not be head coach money, but $350,000 is real money in my book.

I should listen to those, and I haven't. I never got into the habit of podcasts, for whatever reason. I prefer to read a story rather than listen to it.

So... have the 'why' and the 'who' been explored? As in, why are assistants' salaries so low at the U, and who is responsible?

 

[short ornery norwegian]

I should listen to those, and I haven't. I never got into the habit of podcasts, for whatever reason. I prefer to read a story rather than listen to it.

So... have the 'why' and the 'who' been explored? As in, why are assistants' salaries so low at the U, and who is responsible?

The Who - as far as I know - would be Coyle and Fleck. the Why - that is a question for Coyle and Fleck. but my short answer would be that the football program has a budget, and someone - Coyle and/or Fleck - has chosen to allocate resources elsewhere.

and paying higher salaries is no guarantee of better performance. but in general, you get what you pay for, and for whatever reason(s), the MN football program has not been willing to pay higher salaries for its football assistants.

 

[MaxyJR1]

Here is the Nebraska pool of salaries

 

[Lou Brown]

Extension 100%. Raise no. More money for AC's yes!

 

[PMWinSTP]

The statements I made up -- exactly the things Fleck would say -- are zero information, zero sincerity, zero genuine.


What. Purpose. ???

Define purpose. How are you able to use the word yet completely incapable of defining what it means here??


What ramifications?


Possibly. Doesn't justify anything though


He didn't say those things. You know this, yes?

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Here is the Nebraska pool of salaries

And yet they still can't make a bowl game

 

[Some guy]

speaking of raises, Ryan Burns recently posted a long article on Gopher Illustrated, examining what MN pays its assistant coaches compared to the rest of the B1G.

in 2023, of the 12 schools that report data (Northwestern and Penn State do not) MN was last in its assistant coaches' salary pool.

of the incoming schools, UCLA, Washington and Oregon paid more than MN in 2023. USC did not report. so MN is last among 15 teams reporting. If we take an educated guess that Northwestern is last, and Penn State and USC likely pay more than MN, then MN is 17th of 18 schools in assistant coach salary pool.

and in 2024 - MN's assistant coach salary pool is actually less than 2023 because the new DC is paid less than the old DC. (MN also got $300,000 from MSU to buy out Rossi)

while Coyle gets a raise and an extension.

To be fair, the DC was horrible last year. Most blown coverages since the withers year

 

[WAGopher]

Extension 100%. Raise no. More money for AC's yes!

I like this. Support Fleck with an extension a much more money for assistant coaches. And promise Fleck more money for 8 wins or more next year.

 

[MplsGopher]

the DC was horrible last year. Most blown coverages since the withers year

You're blaming Rossi for some terrible individual plays by Gousby??

What kind of fake take is this?

 

[salzie]

The same could be said about the people teaching academics. Over paid Under worked Terrible results. Teachers pay is Inversely proportioned to student academic achievement.

Lol see how the works out for pool quality candidates.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

Within reason, absolutely. One down season and people are ready to let PJ walk. Boggles my mind. This is the best foundation for the Gopher football program I can think of in my 40 years on this planet.

Not giving a raise isn't the same as letting him walk. After the success he has had, he's built up a fair amount of earned equity, so we shouldn't overreact to one bad year. That said, it was a bad year. If years like last year become the norm (I don't think they will), he will be eventually be fired. You don't reward a season like that with a raise.

 

[JoeCool]

Yes. Fleck looks like he might be bumping his head on the ceiling of this program right now, but that's because he's the one doing the heavy lifting holding it up. You pay him until you can’t, because he won't quit on it.

 

[EG#9]

I haven't been on the board since the Fleck/UCLA thing, but I am pleasantly surprised the majority of posters wouldn't have supported a raise/extension to keep Fleck. 2019 was a long time ago. This last year was absolutely horrific and every year since 2019 has featured some truly terrible losses. It wasn't that long ago that Fleck was above .500 in Big Ten play and it seemed unlikely he'd ever fall below that mark again. Flash forward to now and he's 3 games below .500 for his tenure and it seems unlikely he'll get back above .500 again.

Fleck was a good hire, he'd done some good things. I don't think we could/should invest in him further before we see on field evidence of the product improving. It would have been awful to lose Fleck to UCLA because of the timing. I am happy he is staying and hopes he turns things around. It's time to win another game of the magnitude of Penn State and stop having two losses every year to the likes of Northwestern, Purdue, and Illinois.