Would new additions to B1G force ND's hand?

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GopherinPhilly

GopherinPhilly

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I was just pondering what the additions of UVa, UNC & Duke would do to the ND situation. The additions of these 3 teams do a couple of things: 1) Force the Big 12 & SEC to move on adding more teams which will force the Pac 12-14-16-18 to take the best of the West. 2) In this scenario, where the Big East and ACC are cut into pieces by the top football conferences and it becomes clear that ND will not get special treatment into the 4 team playoff...then ND has to choose a major conference for football.

With no Big East or ACC...they will have to choose between the SEC (Never happen) the Pac 12-20 (keep USC rivalry but travel would be brutal), the Big 12 (good fit money wise, but geography and no natural, regional or historic rivalry is an issue) or the B1G (they may hate us, but geography, natural rivalry, historic rivalries and travel all make sense) plus good match academically.

My guess is that if an offer has went out to these 3 schools (or GT too), then it was made to try and force ND to accept a B1G bid in 2017 when their TV deals ends with NBC. IF ND says no again. no problem, these schools will give us a huge foot print and guarantee the future viability of the B1G while ND can be earning frequent flyer miles out west or down south for the next 20 years (Suck It!)
 

GopherinPhilly said:
I was just pondering what the additions of UVa, UNC & Duke would do to the ND situation. The additions of these 3 teams do a couple of things: 1) Force the Big 12 & SEC to move on adding more teams which will force the Pac 12-14-16-18 to take the best of the West. 2) In this scenario, where the Big East and ACC are cut into pieces by the top football conferences and it becomes clear that ND will not get special treatment into the 4 team playoff...then ND has to choose a major conference for football.

With no Big East or ACC...they will have to choose between the SEC (Never happen) the Pac 12-20 (keep USC rivalry but travel would be brutal), the Big 12 (good fit money wise, but geography and no natural, regional or historic rivalry is an issue) or the B1G (they may hate us, but geography, natural rivalry, historic rivalries and travel all make sense) plus good match academically.

My guess is that if an offer has went out to these 3 schools (or GT too), then it was made to try and force ND to accept a B1G bid in 2017 when their TV deals ends with NBC. IF ND says no again. no problem, these schools will give us a huge foot print and guarantee the future viability of the B1G while ND can be earning frequent flyer miles out west or down south for the next 20 years (Suck It!)
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Might be sooner then that. The Domers' deal with NBC expires in 2015. That could tell the tale right there.
 

We are at the end of the day going to have 4, 18 team conferences. 72 teams in the BCS system. I wouldn't mind seeing ND in another conference.
 

I always thought BIG stood for B16. If that is true, then the BIG only has room for two more schools and Uva, UNC or Ga. Tech. look to be the primary targets. Of course, if BIG is just BIG then that blows that theory out the window.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
We are at the end of the day going to have 4, 18 team conferences. 72 teams in the BCS system. I wouldn't mind seeing ND in another conference.
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If you follow the money...4 - 18 team conferences isn't optimal...and there is no reason for the 3 mega conferences to be the same size...since this is all about money....the Big 12 wont go over 12 teams...anything more than adding FSU and and one more dillutes their money...they just need enough to be included in the playoff and 12 teams get them.

The SEC has rules against adding schools in existing member states without a sign off...so that limits them to a few options and no path to 18. The Pac 12-20 is probably going to be the biggest as it can absorb all those west coast tweeners without hurting it's TV deals because they have multiple regional tv channels and don't guarantee equal payouts from TV revenue.

I expect the B1G to try and make itself large enough to have 2 channels to match its east/west conference split. To do that, we need to add another marquis name in the east...UNC gives us that, along with a combination of and two - UVa, Duke, GaTech plus the Golden Domers.

This is a TV payout could grow to $100 mill per school when you add in the new FB playoff money. IF Delaney can get UNC to jump, I think we grab UVa (Vtech to the SEC or Big 12) and Gotta believe Duke goes just to protect itself...if not GaTech will beg for slot...and that leaves just ND hanging in the wind with the choice of 3 conferences and we clearly offer the best options for all their sports including Football.
 


What I see is the B1G Conf moving towards 20 teams, not 16. Getting Virginia and hopefully UNC very soon here, is just a first strike before going after Florida St, Georgia Tech and 2 other teams. Virginia is not our #1 or probably even are #2 target, but they are the most willing to make the move, so we are going after them simply to encourage one other ACC team to go with them, with UNC the #1 choice and GT the backup plan.

Once we get those 2, the ACC will probably counter by taking in UConn and Cincy. Then the Big Ten knows that the only 2 ACC teams the SEC would probably consider is Virg Tech and NCSU. We don't care about those two schools and hope the SEC takes them soon after we get our 2. Once the SEC goes after those 2 teams, the ACC will be down to 12 again and vulnerable. That is when we make our move to get FSU and either GT or UNC, whichever team we didn't get the first time around.

That leaves us 2 shy of 20, and I feel we will push hard to get Kansas to balance out the league more equally. KU would help us out bb wise, they have a decent footprint and would be a natural rival with Nebraska. After that, ND is obviously a very likely candidate for that 20th spot, and the thing is, the Big Ten, I believe, is positioning itself to be able to dictate terms with ND. I believe that ND thinks it can make demands and that the Big Ten wants them enough to give in to those demands. I think that the Big Ten will have Boston College and Duke and UConn all begging to get into the B1G, and BC and UConn have footprints to offer, UConn has good bb to offer in both mens and womens and BC has been pretty good in bb, and of course would add to our hockey. Knocks against UConn would be they are not an AAU member I don't think, and BC is a Jesuit College, which along with ND being Catholic as well, would not be great fits in the Big Ten, but money will dictate these decisions far more than anything else. Duke doesn't have much other than bb to offer, although we may have to take Duke to get UNC? I think ND will not accept our terms and we'll snub them and take a team like BC or maybe a Clemson? They are in South Carolina, right?! Wouldn't be a horrible fit, if they are an AAU member that is?


But in response to all of this, I think the Pac-10 and Big 12, not wanting to have to expand, are trying to make a countering blocking move by trying to make a deal with the ACC that would keep them together as a conference. The Pac-10 would really have to lower their standards to find any more schools to join their conf, but if 12 is all you need, they may stay at 12? The Big 12 is pushing to get FSU and is thinking that getting Clemson along with them is a good idea so that they will have a natural rival. They already have WV, so they may also go after Pitt, Syracuse, possibly Duke, UConn and Cincy. If the B1G gets FSU, then I think the Big 12 would go after Miami.

But I only see the Big 12 making moves to get most of those teams if the ACC seems like its going down for the count.
 

I don't really care who we add. I fear only one thing - some kind of east west schism. For example, we get to 18 or 20 and the eastern schools break away. Or worst of all, Ohio State (and Michigan?) bolt for the SEC. I realize that's a very very long shot but we'd be absolutely hung out to dry if it happened. I suspect we'd be feeling about the same as North Dakota hockey is right about now.
 

badgergopher said:
I don't really care who we add. I fear only one thing - some kind of east west schism. For example, we get to 18 or 20 and the eastern schools break away. Or worst of all, Ohio State (and Michigan?) bolt for the SEC. I realize that's a very very long shot but we'd be absolutely hung out to dry if it happened. I suspect we'd be feeling about the same as North Dakota hockey is right about now.
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Ohio State and Michigan bolting for the SEC is as likely as Alabama and LSU joining the B10 = zero.
 

I'd rather we took BC (and the Boston market) and left the f'ing 'lil elves forced to pick another unnatural fit or, better yet, left all alone in Indiana.
 



I could be wrong, but I thought that the Big 10 teams who signed into the Big 10 network essentially gave up their TV rights. If Michigan and tOSU went to the SEC, they'd essentially not make any TV revenue from their games, it would be distributed to the other Big 10 teams.

Yeah, it won't happen.
 

badgergopher --

The reason you don't have to fear OSU and/or Michigan going to the SEC, or ANY school that could got to the Big Ten choosing instead to go to the SEC, is that all we hear about is the football money, and the media footprints. But the BIGGEST MONEY OF ALL, is found in the area of Research grants and patents and things of that nature. The SEC has no such advantage, whereas the Big Ten has all its members as AAU members and have a partnership agreement between them, including Chicago as well. And that is where the real money is, and why the Big Ten will NEVER go away, no matter how badly the SEC dominates us in fb, why Minnesota will NEVER get asked to leave the Big Ten no matter how bad our fb and bb gets, and why in the long run, the Big Ten will probably be able to catch up to the SEC in fb.
 

#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
badgergopher --

The reason you don't have to fear OSU and/or Michigan going to the SEC, or ANY school that could got to the Big Ten choosing instead to go to the SEC, is that all we hear about is the football money, and the media footprints. But the BIGGEST MONEY OF ALL, is found in the area of Research grants and patents and things of that nature. The SEC has no such advantage, whereas the Big Ten has all its members as AAU members and have a partnership agreement between them, including Chicago as well. And that is where the real money is, and why the Big Ten will NEVER go away, no matter how badly the SEC dominates us in fb, why Minnesota will NEVER get asked to leave the Big Ten no matter how bad our fb and bb gets, and why in the long run, the Big Ten will probably be able to catch up to the SEC in fb.
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Which is why Minnesota, Michigan, or even Ohio State would rather be known for curing breast cancer than winning football championships.
 




Not sure why alphabet soup and others on this board can't seem to fathom the idea of surrendering television rights to your conference and thus making it almost impossible to leave. This is what both the B1G and Big 12 have done...and the Pac 12-20 and SEC are soon to follow as part of their next TV deal negotiations.

In other words...if Kansas wants to leave the Big 12, then the Big 12 has to release them...it isn't a penalty like the ACC or Big East, it is a surrender of TV rights.

That's why the ACC, Big East, etc are targets and not the B1G (ever) or the Big 12 since they instituted their rules after aTm, CO and NE bolted.

Plus, Delaney has made it very clear he is looking to expand our footprint into growth markets and new demographics...Kansas is no where close to Virginia, North Carolina or Atlanta when it comes to demos.
 

#1nHkyCfbBsbDncSolarDebat said:
badgergopher --

The reason you don't have to fear OSU and/or Michigan going to the SEC, or ANY school that could got to the Big Ten choosing instead to go to the SEC, is that all we hear about is the football money, and the media footprints. But the BIGGEST MONEY OF ALL, is found in the area of Research grants and patents and things of that nature. The SEC has no such advantage, whereas the Big Ten has all its members as AAU members and have a partnership agreement between them, including Chicago as well. And that is where the real money is, and why the Big Ten will NEVER go away, no matter how badly the SEC dominates us in fb, why Minnesota will NEVER get asked to leave the Big Ten no matter how bad our fb and bb gets, and why in the long run, the Big Ten will probably be able to catch up to the SEC in fb.
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Nitpicking a bit, the research money comes from membership in the Committee on Institutional Cooperation (www.cic.net). Nebraska fell out of the AAU right after they were admitted to the Big Ten. UNL, Rutgers, and Maryland were all added to the CIC upon joining the Big Ten.
 

justthefacts said:
Nitpicking a bit, the research money comes from membership in the Committee on Institutional Cooperation (www.cic.net). Nebraska fell out of the AAU right after they were admitted to the Big Ten. UNL, Rutgers, and Maryland were all added to the CIC upon joining the Big Ten.
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Still, his point is that compared with either the operating or research budgets, the athletic budget is a rounding error.
 

OP question: "Would new additions to B1G force ND's hand?"

Why, oh why, would we want North Dakota in the B1G?
 

MNGoldenGophers1 said:
I'd rather we took BC (and the Boston market) and left the f'ing 'lil elves forced to pick another unnatural fit or, better yet, left all alone in Indiana.
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Was thinking the same thing myself. Not only do you get the Boston cable market, you also get the "other" Catholic school & storied rival of ND's. Also, as long as this is all about cable markets, why not Miami? You'd glom up the whole SoFla cable market & get your brand out to a lot of great athletes. I like either of those two options over Virginia, especially since that cable market (DC/Va/Balt) is already covered from having gotten Maryland earlier.
 

Dr.Don said:
OP question: "Would new additions to B1G force ND's hand?"

Why, oh why, would we want North Dakota in the B1G?
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We don't need Grand Forks, but Fargo would be huge. All those lakeside resorts and downhill skiing resorts are huge cable subscribers.
 

you can forget about ND. The privates will band together and it'll be public vs private at the end of this century. should be fun.
 

GopherinPhilly --

I understand all of that, and if you noticed, I stated that southeastern states were our priority targets. I believe our priority targets listed in order are,

1. North Carolina
2. Florida State
3. Notre Dame
4. Georgia Tech
5. Virginia
6. Kansas
7. Boston College
8. Duke
9. Clemson
10. UConn
11. Missouri
12. Miami

Those are our priorities, as far as I can tell. If we could get those first 6 without having to give in to any ND concessions I think those are the 6 that give the Big Ten the most positives.

You might ask why I have Virginia listed 5th, but have stated on numerous occasions that they are one of the next two that the Big Ten is probably going to take, well, that's simple, Virginia is the first domino. Virginia really wants into the Big Ten and without going after them first, the rest might not follow. Getting Virginia and one other school, either UNC or GT, is just the beginning. We don't get UNC or GT without taking Virginia. And we won't take Virginia alone, and are probably waiting until we get UNC or GT before taking in Virginia.

I've got FSU listed 2nd, but the Big 12 also wants them and I don't think that they are desperate to leave the ACC, so they are probably sitting back and waiting to see what other schools do first, probably hoping that nothing happens and the ACC survives. So we'll probably wait for a later round of expansion before trying to get them. And its possible that they feel they need GT before getting Florida?

I've got Notre Dame listed 3rd, although they might be 1st or 2nd, but with their TV contract and all, I think that the Big Ten is looking at them to be our 20th member.

GT is our backup for in case UNC doesn't come in right away. If we get UNC, then GT will be the next round of expansion's version of Virginia this round, the school that is mentioned as the certainty along with other possibles.

I got Kansas listed 6th, and as our last top priority in, because if we get the first 5, we'll have basically run out of prime southeastern states with which to expand into and one more western school would be ideal to balance out the conference. I don't have them listed according to how likely the teams will be to get, but how much we want them. If getting Kansas will be too hard because of their current situation in the Big 12, well, that doesn't change the fact that we want them more than Duke or UConn or Missouri.


I got BC listed next because they give us that Boston footprint, and it wouldn't hurt the BTHC to add BC either, but I'm not sure if they are an AAU member or not, and that's a pretty high priority. I know Nebraska got booted from the AAU, but they were members when we accepted them into the Big Ten and its very likely that they'll get back in.

I got Duke listed next, but only because of their being an AAU member, otherwise I don't know what they have to offer the Big Ten other than bb? We'd already have the NC footprint, but we might have to take Duke just to get UNC?! I've read about them being an option more than once, but they don't seem to be any conferences favorite target, and Duke fans themselves don't feel that anyone even wants them. lol

All the rest of my list, well, is basically just a semi educated guess, so I won't say anything about stuff I'm not all that sure about.


If we get UNC, I think we get whoever else we want basically, with the possible exception of FSU. I don't have a read on what they want. With UNC would come Virginia and Georgia Tech for sure. We get those 3, then I think we are in a really good position to get at least 2 more schools that we want. If we get FSU as well, then I think we can have whoever else we want without hardly an effort.

I have more to say about the ND situation but I'll save that for another post.
 

Dr.Don said:
OP question: "Would new additions to B1G force ND's hand?"

Why, oh why, would we want North Dakota in the B1G?
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Agree, we should ask NDSU instead:
1) They 'own' us
B) Fargo dome holds almost 15,000 fans
c) They win championships something the BIG hasn't done since '97 and '00 when Michigan and Ohio State won titles
 

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