Worst loss in PJs tenure?

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Gophergrandpa said:
If we continue with the 75%+ run, under 25% pass play allocation—making us excruciating predictable and simple to defend—this season will be lost. Against two MAC teams, we have attempted a total of 30 passes (completing 13) against 87 rushing plays. I have heard folks explain this conservatism by saying we are doing just enough to win. But in every game we should be pulling out the stops and doing way more than what we think is “needed to win.” Lot more room for error …
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Right you are - the offenses of good teams are aggressive and seek to score, even if there are only 40 seconds left in the half. You keep trying to score. This conflicts with ball control, dominate the clock philosophy where you might grind it out for that game only, as a tactic, but you always have to be able to pass and Miami of Ohio and Bowling Green were excruciating examples of an inability to pass when you had to.
 

Boomtime said:
Go back and look at the prediction thread. Most thought 10-2 was very realistic.
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Not me. I thought seven, maybe, and in one post, taking a second look at how tough the schedule was, said almost every game was losable. Making six or seven this year will be an accomplishment, with Mo out, CAB missing games, a run-run-pass-punt offense, and Morgan off his mark.
 

OK Fleck —you keep saying this loss is on you. OK we hold you and only you accountable for that disaster yesterday! Now what are you going to do about your failure?
 

Boomtime said:
We were a 30? point favorite.

That's how bad Bowling Green is.
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Odds/spread is nothing more than trying to induce people to place bets. It's not really a relative rating of the teams.
 

Yes, by far. Let's take a look at the losses.
  • 2017 Vs. Maryland, 24-31. Maryland finished 4-8
  • 2017 @ Purdue, 17-31. Purdue finished 7-6 with a Foster Farms Bowl win.
  • 2017 Vs. Michigan State, 27-30. Spartans finished 10-3, ranked 15 with a Holiday Bowl win.
  • 2017 @ Iowa, 10-17. Iowa finished 8-5 with a Pinstripe Bowl win.
  • 2017 @ Michigan, 10-33. Michigan finished 8-4 with an Outback Bowl loss.
  • 2017 @ Northwestern, 0-39. Wildcats finished 10-3, ranked 17 with a Music City Bowl win.
  • 2017 Vs. Wisconsin, 0-31. Wisconsin finished 13-1, ranked 6, with a division title and an Orange Bowl win.
  • 2018 @ Maryland, 13-42. Maryland finished 5-7.
  • 2018 Vs. Iowa, 31-48. Iowa finished 9-4, ranked 25 with an Outback Bowl win.
  • 2018 @ Ohio State, 14-30. Buckeyes finished 13-1, ranked 3, with a B1G title and a Rose Bowl win.
  • 2018 @ Nebraska, 28-53. Huskers finished 4-8.
  • 2018 @ Illinois, 31-55. Illini finished 4-8.
  • 2018 @ Northwestern, 14-24. Wildcats finished 9-5, ranked 19/21, with a division title and a Holiday Bowl win.
  • 2019 @ Iowa, 19-23. Iowa finished 10-3, ranked 15 with a Holiday Bowl win.
  • 2019 Vs. Wisconsin, 17-38. Badgers finished 10-4, ranked 11/13, with a co-division title and a Rose Bowl loss.
  • 2020 Vs. Michigan. Wolverines finished 2-4.
  • 2020 @ Maryland. Terps finished 2-3.
  • 2020 Vs. Iowa. Iowa finished 6-2 with a 15/16 ranking.
  • 2020 @ Wisconsin. Badgers finished 4-3 with a Duke's Mayo Bowl win.
  • 2021 Vs. Ohio State, 31-45. Buckeyes currently 3-1 and ranked 10/12.
  • 2021 Vs. Bowling Green, 10-14. Falcons now 2-2.
The majority of Minnesota's losses had been on the road (12). This was at home. The majority of losses were against Big Ten schools with winning records (13). This loss was against a MAC school that's .500, not even against a Boise State or UCF type.

Nine of the losses were to teams that finished the season ranked. I'm not expecting Bowling Green to reach that level. It's true the Gophers lost in rough fashion a few times, 2018 Illinois being an example. However, that's more expected in conference play. Even the Buckeyes have been blown out by Purdue.

Maybe the worst part, though, is Minnesota had opportunities to win. The score was 14-10, and Minnesota needed to find the endzone just one more time, and couldn't do it, despite having experience on the offensive line and quarterback position. To not be able to do that makes this the worst.
 


IceBoxGopher said:
Yes, by far. Let's take a look at the losses.
  • 2017 Vs. Maryland, 24-31. Maryland finished 4-8
  • 2017 @ Purdue, 17-31. Purdue finished 7-6 with a Foster Farms Bowl win.
  • 2017 Vs. Michigan State, 27-30. Spartans finished 10-3, ranked 15 with a Holiday Bowl win.
  • 2017 @ Iowa, 10-17. Iowa finished 8-5 with a Pinstripe Bowl win.
  • 2017 @ Michigan, 10-33. Michigan finished 8-4 with an Outback Bowl loss.
  • 2017 @ Northwestern, 0-39. Wildcats finished 10-3, ranked 17 with a Music City Bowl win.
  • 2017 Vs. Wisconsin, 0-31. Wisconsin finished 13-1, ranked 6, with a division title and an Orange Bowl win.
  • 2018 @ Maryland, 13-42. Maryland finished 5-7.
  • 2018 Vs. Iowa, 31-48. Iowa finished 9-4, ranked 25 with an Outback Bowl win.
  • 2018 @ Ohio State, 14-30. Buckeyes finished 13-1, ranked 3, with a B1G title and a Rose Bowl win.
  • 2018 @ Nebraska, 28-53. Huskers finished 4-8.
  • 2018 @ Illinois, 31-55. Illini finished 4-8.
  • 2018 @ Northwestern, 14-24. Wildcats finished 9-5, ranked 19/21, with a division title and a Holiday Bowl win.
  • 2019 @ Iowa, 19-23. Iowa finished 10-3, ranked 15 with a Holiday Bowl win.
  • 2019 Vs. Wisconsin, 17-38. Badgers finished 10-4, ranked 11/13, with a co-division title and a Rose Bowl loss.
  • 2020 Vs. Michigan. Wolverines finished 2-4.
  • 2020 @ Maryland. Terps finished 2-3.
  • 2020 Vs. Iowa. Iowa finished 6-2 with a 15/16 ranking.
  • 2020 @ Wisconsin. Badgers finished 4-3 with a Duke's Mayo Bowl win.
  • 2021 Vs. Ohio State, 31-45. Buckeyes currently 3-1 and ranked 10/12.
  • 2021 Vs. Bowling Green, 10-14. Falcons now 2-2.
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The four bolded above, out of the total 21 losses, are the ones where we were NOT trailing at the half.

The two last year would have been wins with our normal kickers.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
It's not even close. Considering where we are as a program, it's the worst loss since the Brewster era.

We were not a rebuilding team. We have veterans along the OL, DL, secondary, QB and we laid an absolute egg against a pretty bad football team.

For me, yesterday was the worst and I don't even think it's close.
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We don’t have the playmakers we had in 2019 on either offense or defense. That is what needs to be rebuilt in my opinion. Don’t you remember what Johnson, Bateman and Winfield were capable of?

and, the last time the offensive line really was totally effective against a reasonably decent team was in the first half of the Ohio State game in 2021.
 

Oh and .... in looking at this, I am reminded of the BRUTAL loss at home to Iowa last year.

I know a lot of people don't like to count last year, fine. But that very much should have been a 35-0 loss. Just an awful loss.


Also I believe Bateman's last game.
 

Consider this. The last time a P5 team lost to a non P5 team where they were favored by 30 or more points…60 years.
 



fmlizard said:
This is the worst loss under Fleck, bar none. It's the worst loss for the Gophers since the South Dakota debacle under Tim Brewster.

The crazy part is that it came exactly a week after arguably the most complete victory against a good team that the Gophers have had since he's been here.

I have no idea where it goes next week. But I do know there's some very bad tape out there on the Gophers and this could easily plummet quickly if major adjustments aren't made.
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The question is, will it continue with losses to Purdue and Nebraska? I hope not.

They have the players capable of wins. They preach a balanced attack. What they are doing is Sanford Jr predictable vanilla pudding.
 

imthewalrus said:
We don’t have the playmakers we had in 2019 on either offense or defense. That is what needs to be rebuilt in my opinion. Don’t you remember what Johnson, Bateman and Winfield were capable of?

and, the last time the offensive line really was totally effective against a reasonably decent team was in the first half of the Ohio State game in 2021.
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Yeah, we don't have the playmakers we had in 2019, but we have or should have way more playmakers than Bowling Green. I'm not saying we should be as good as 2019, I'm saying it's the worse lost since the Brew years.
 

hello-world said:
We've seen Morgan run a very good offense in the past. I don't think he's the problem. I think it's Sanford, and he needs to be gone yesterday.
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I'm not a fan of Sanford and I'm a huge Morgan backer but he was awful yesterday. He wasn't accurate and he made terrible decisions. He was under too much pressure, but even the sacks were partially on him. If an opponent brings 7 and you're holding the ball for more than 3 seconds (especially when a sack would push you out of FG range), it's on you.

I like Morgan but I thought it was one of the worst played games by a QB in years. I don't think he is still #1 if he was 1 more game like that.
 

Without question. I consider this loss worse than losing to South Dakota. Everyone knew Tim Brewsters gophers were awful. We were 31 point favorites Saturday.
 



Worst loss?

PJ once said "Comparisons steal your joys".

OK, they all suck! FIX IT!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

West Fargo Gopher Fan said:
Without question. I consider this loss worse than losing to South Dakota. Everyone knew Tim Brewsters gophers were awful. We were 31 point favorites Saturday.
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Agreed. And I was at that USD atrocity as one of the few students who still have a crap about the football team.

It’s truly baffling that a team that had Ohio State in the ropes, crushed a P5 opponent on the road, and has a ton of veterans/stability can’t beat Bowling Green while holding them to 14.
 

Why is everyone hung up on the spread, being some "objective" metric. That's silly, to me. It's a line for betting. They just want as many people to bet, as possible.
 


MplsGopher said:
Odds/spread is nothing more than trying to induce people to place bets. It's not really a relative rating of the teams.
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Uh....a 30 point spread still speaks to how bad Bowling Green is regarded.

But you already knew that.
 

Great Plains Gopher said:
Not me. I thought seven, maybe, and in one post, taking a second look at how tough the schedule was, said almost every game was losable. Making six or seven this year will be an accomplishment, with Mo out, CAB missing games, a run-run-pass-punt offense, and Morgan off his mark.
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I believe you, but your skepticism wasn't the majority viewpoint.
 


MplsGopher said:
Why is everyone hung up on the spread, being some "objective" metric. That's silly, to me. It's a line for betting. They just want as many people to bet, as possible.
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Look at Bowling Green's last 15-20 games. I think their closest game last year was a 21 point loss to a MAC team (sorry not checking my facts). The year before they somehow went 3-9 but every loss was by like 20+ points (again could be off a bit but point remains).

The reason people just point out the spread is because they don't have time to dig into just how bad Bowling Green is.
 

tmvander said:
Look at Bowling Green's last 15-20 games. I think their closest game last year was a 21 point loss to a MAC team (sorry not checking my facts). The year before they somehow went 3-9 but every loss was by like 20+ points (again could be off a bit but point remains).

The reason people just point out the spread is because they don't have time to dig into just how bad Bowling Green is.
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Last year was last year. The year before that was a year before that. Irrelevant. Even Week 1, where they lost by 32 at Tennessee, doesn't matter. Teams improve the most after Week 1.
 

MplsGopher said:
Last year was last year. The year before that was a year before that. Irrelevant. Even Week 1, where they lost by 32 at Tennessee, doesn't matter. Teams improve the most after Week 1.
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Sure that's fine. I'm not a sports gambler but if I was I'd very rarely bet on a team to win the game who is favored to lose by 30+
 

tmvander said:
Sure that's fine. I'm not a sports gambler but if I was I'd very rarely bet on a team to win the game who is favored to lose by 30+
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Agree, of course.

But I wouldn't use that to declare it the worst loss of PJ's career. I think I can fairly easily argue the Iowa loss last year was terrible all the way around, on D too.
 

MplsGopher said:
Agree, of course.

But I wouldn't use that to declare it the worst loss of PJ's career. I think I can fairly easily argue the Iowa loss last year was terrible all the way around, on D too.
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Fair point. Personally I think losing to a horrible team affects me differently than getting my butt kicked by a good team. Neither is ideal of course.
 

with time to think it over, I have hard time saying it's the worst loss

Most embarrassing, yeah, worst

I guess it depends on how you define worse.

MY HOPE is that PJ learns from this loss and changes his best for his approach to non conference games. Obviously you don't empty the playbook, but running 80% of time on 1st and 2nd down wont get it done and running over and over into stacked boxes. PJ wants to do just enough to win in NC and as others pointed out, finally caught up to him
 

As was well said by another poster: they played on offense as if they expected, somehow, that the win would fall out of the sky, eventually. That it was bound to happen, by sheer differential in status of the two teams. Zero urgency. Zero thought that they were losing the game.

If the offense gameplan was always intended to be neutered, so as to not "show anything" in non-conf, well that somewhat makes sense with what we saw out there.

But at some point, don't you have to chuck that and, you know, actually go for the win??

Perhaps that was the plan for the last two drives, and unfortunately Morgan made two bad choices and perhaps was trying to do too much. Yes, he got sacked as he threw the first one. But if you see that coming, maybe you just take the sack instead of chuck it up.
 




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