Gopher Warrior
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What is this Gopher talk? What McDonald's All-Americans are you referring to? Stick to the topic, shorty. He didn't lead his team to anything.
With all this talk about recruiting
- Thread starter Brew_recruit
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What is this Gopher talk? What McDonald's All-Americans are you referring to? Stick to the topic, shorty. He didn't lead his team to anything.
streetfighter
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GW - I think your style of personal insults proves your intellectual shortcomings.
You're pure genius. I bet you're off the charts on the IQ exam.
GophersOnTheRise
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Some people just like arguing for the sake of arguing.
Two final points, then I'm done with you. Davidson was much better than a 10-seed, and they proved it with their play. The final ranking had them ranked #9 (UW was #10). I obviously would have liked to have seen UW win, but Davidson was better and was worthy of their Elite 8 finish that season. They had the best player on the floor, maybe the best player in the tournament that season.
Realistic means that it was clear Butch was over-rated by the national media once he got to Madison. However, the tall kid with slow feet, little explosion and a nice shot developed into a first team all Big 10 player who led his team to the regular season and tournament titles in his final season. That is just fine by me, and many Badger fans I am sure, regardless of what Scout and Rivals said he should be 5 years earlier.
Keep talking about UW and how bad Bo is and the much the Badgers suck. The achievements of that program over the last 10 years are much greater than either of the programs you support.
Realistic means that it was clear Butch was over-rated by the national media once he got to Madison. However, the tall kid with slow feet, little explosion and a nice shot developed into a first team all Big 10 player who led his team to the regular season and tournament titles in his final season. That is just fine by me, and many Badger fans I am sure, regardless of what Scout and Rivals said he should be 5 years earlier.
Keep talking about UW and how bad Bo is and the much the Badgers suck. The achievements of that program over the last 10 years are much greater than either of the programs you support.
GopherJake
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Gunna pile on here. Even if you are technically correct, Warrior, (which I think is questionable), the argument you have constructed makes you look like a nitpicking little weasel at best. No offense.
Gopher Warrior
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Sorry for being correct. In this land of emotion and slowness, I'm wrong for being correct. Shame on me.
The recap of my sins:
Brew_recruit said:
Gopher Warrior said:
UWOle said:
GopherJake
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I didn't say you were correct. Your recap was missing some pertinent details, by the way.
Drop it, Gee-Dub. Pick another fight.
MNBadgerGuy
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I love people who sit at their computer screens like gopherwarrior and talk about how some kid didn't live up to expectations. How's your life coming GW? Have you lived up to the expectations some website put on you when you were 17-18 years old?
I read that you are a gopher and a Marquette fan and you are sitting here taking cheap shots at the Badgers? As many gopher fans in this thread have already stated, give it up. You make yourself look like more and more of a dead beat loser the more you type.
how old are you? you told someone 'Shhhhhh' because they were posting in the position of 'youth'. You must be the saddest most miserable 'elder' ive ever encountered. A Marquette alum who is jealous of the UW's athletic and academic success? whats your story? Or I'm sure you will just sit behind your computer screen continuing to take shots at much more successful people in the veil of anonymity. What a wonderful life you live.
I read that you are a gopher and a Marquette fan and you are sitting here taking cheap shots at the Badgers? As many gopher fans in this thread have already stated, give it up. You make yourself look like more and more of a dead beat loser the more you type.
how old are you? you told someone 'Shhhhhh' because they were posting in the position of 'youth'. You must be the saddest most miserable 'elder' ive ever encountered. A Marquette alum who is jealous of the UW's athletic and academic success? whats your story? Or I'm sure you will just sit behind your computer screen continuing to take shots at much more successful people in the veil of anonymity. What a wonderful life you live.
Gopher Warrior
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I'm on a message board dedicated to basketball. Someone else made a claim about Bo cRyan, which I disputed. There's nothing strange about that.
What is strange are your insecurities over the Madison extension of the University of Wisconsin's academic 'success' and your fascination with my personal life. This has never been about me - it's about Brian Butch, who played for Bo Ryan, not living up to expectations. And despite the sad personal attacks on me, it's apparent you agree with me that Brian Butch did not live up to expectations.
Wow he is really getting to you. Kinda sad.
underground629
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MNBadgerGuy
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I'm kinda sad? Funny, I'd say the guy taking ridiculous shots at a quality kid and basketball player would be the sad one, but hey, whatever you say.
Roy Christensen
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Why don't you guys take this to the other side of the St Croix. This is Gopherhole.
Gopher Warrior,
Unlike me, you do have a lot of substance to offer about recruiting and basketball in general. The information you offer may be one of the most sought-after in this board, and I appreciate it. I do not mean to patronize, but it does make me wonder why you are engaging in extracurricular stuff about moral superiority and whatnot. Leave that stuff to a guy like me.
Take care.
Unlike me, you do have a lot of substance to offer about recruiting and basketball in general. The information you offer may be one of the most sought-after in this board, and I appreciate it. I do not mean to patronize, but it does make me wonder why you are engaging in extracurricular stuff about moral superiority and whatnot. Leave that stuff to a guy like me.
Take care.
All UWOle had to do to win this argument was bring up Kris Humphries, who was ALSO an AA in '03. Given the choice on which player they would rather have I bet 90-100% of fans would rather have Butch then Humphries on their team. Butch was a team player who got along with his teammates, Humphries was a prima donna who couldn't wait to get outta school and go to the NBA.
Gopher Warrior
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Are there posts in this thread that I can't see?!?! Can you try quoting - I'm just not seeing this at all. The argument was not about how great of a teammate Butch was. Go look at the first two posts of this thread... "We forget one thing. Bo Ryan never gets the "best" most talented recruits but he always get results."... "Ryan's players are always somehow thought to be not as good as they are. He's a good coach for sure, but his players are also far better than anyone says."
The argument was that reality says something different than the comments above, and I brought out Brian Butch as an example. That is, Brian Butch was billed as a top recruit and Bo didn't get the results from him... which are both in disagreement with the original post(s) in this thread.
In response to my discussion of reality, I have heard, "your life is in shambles and you're jealous of the Madison extension's academics", "Brian Butch is a really nice guy" and "he was a great teammate"... none of which have anything to do with the argument at hand (or anything to do with reality, again).
Some people may just be ignorant, so to help you out: McDonald's All-Americans are generally at the top of their class (exceptions include 5th year seniors, who can't be McDonald's AA's... so last year you didn't see John Wall, who was the clear #1 in the 2009...). Unless there are medical or issues with the books, these are not guys that redshirt... (as somewhat of an aside, a number of people on this board seem like they may also be football fans and consider a redshirt 'normal' in basketball - it's not. Yes, they do happen, but its not a common route like it is in football programs... for next year, I've heard a million times, "Eliason is going to redshirt" - that's ridiculous. It may very well happen, but there are so many variables and possibilities, to say anything more than, "Eliason may be a good redshirt candidate for 2010-11" at this point in time is stretching it)...
I don't like Wisconsin athletics. I appreciate how Bo Ryan treated Lazar this past summer and can respect that, but overall do not care for the man except for his work on the big screen in films such as The Grinch. So, when I say Brian Butch failed to live up to expectations.. let's remove subjectivity and take a look at something more objective... his peers. Butch was near the middle of the top 15 of McDonald's All-Americans (and all 2003 players) if you look at RSCI.. let's see how his peers have done:
LeBron James - #1, first round 2003
Luol Deng - #7, first round 2004
Shannon Brown - first round 2006
Ndudi Edi - first round 2003
Kendrick Perkins - first round 2003
Chris Paul - #4, first round 2005
Brian Butch - undrafted in the 2008 (did have an owwie on his elbow sr year)
David Padgett - undrafted, KU to Kansas, mandatory RS; broke his kneecap senior year.
Leon Powe - second round 2006
Kris Humphries - first round 2004
Von Wafer - second round 2005
Brandon Bass - second round 2005
Olu Famutimi - serious injury in high school, declared in 2005, undrafted
J.R. Giddens - first round 2008
Travis Outlaw - first round 2003
The reality is most of these guys were off to play basketball for money long before their 4 years in college were up... Brian Butch redshirted, played four years and went undrafted. Butch failed to meet the reasonable expectations folks had of him. Now, if you want to counter with, "well everyone had it wrong - he was never that good. He was tremendously overrated so he actually did very well!"... please do!
GoFerit - good lookin.
The thing is I don't think anyone ever argued that Butch was over-rated coming out of high school. Everyone is saying the same things here, Butch should not have been a hs AA, But was a good college player(This is a college basketball forum). What he did after college is irrelevant to the whole topic. You make Butch out to sound like a complete bust, which is why people are defending him like crazy even though he was a Badger. You also say he didn't meet expectations, I also don't think that's true. Coming out of high school no he didn't, but like UWOle said, people did overrate him cuz of his size(just like they did for Evan Anderson when he was a frosh-soph). Butch did everything Bo asked of him and met all Badger fans expectations(IK cuz I had to hear about it his senior year).