With all this talk about recruiting

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Brew_recruit

Brew_recruit

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We forget one thing. Bo Ryan never gets the "best" most talented recruits but he always get results. AND I HATE BO RYAN SO THAT WAS REALLY HARD TO ADMIT. College basketball is as much about coaching and a system as it is about talent. Tubby needs to bring in an assistant next year that knows how to put an offense in. If he doesn't then we will never become an elite team, even if we get our best scorer, rebounded, and PG back.
 

Ryan's players are always somehow thought to be not as good as they are. He's a good coach for sure, but his players are also far better than anyone says.
 

Brew_recruit said:
We forget one thing. Bo Ryan never gets the "best" most talented recruits but he always get results. AND I HATE BO RYAN SO THAT WAS REALLY HARD TO ADMIT. College basketball is as much about coaching and a system as it is about talent. Tubby needs to bring in an assistant next year that knows how to put an offense in. If he doesn't then we will never become an elite team, even if we get our best scorer, rebounded, and PG back.
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Ryan is a good coach, but to say he doesn't get highly ranked players is incorrect. Leuer, Nakivil, Bohanan and Hughes, for example, were all 4 star recruits, and Krabenhoft and Butch were five stars. Once again, I'm not saying he's not a good coach, but he's not necessarily coaching up a bunch of 2-star and 3-star players.
 

Bo Ryan gets as much talent as anyone, they're just not usually as flashy as other highly ranked recruits so people assume they're not as good.
 

My standard "cut and paste" whenever this topic comes up:

In my opinion, one of the biggest misconceptions in the last decade in the Big Ten is that Bo Ryan's teams lack talent and it is all coaching. I do think Bo is a great coach, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking he's doing it with Missouri Valley Conference-level talent.

Bo's CURRENT ROSTER includes FIVE 4-star players and SIX 3-star players!! Why shouldn't they be good? There is plenty of talent there.

There always has been talent there. For example, his last seven classes:

2009 - two 3-star recruits
2008 - 4-star Jared Bergren (#74 nationally), plus three 3-star recruits
2007 - 4-star Jon Lueur (#82), 4-star Keaton Nankivil (#92), plus two 3-star recruits
2006 - 4-star Trevon Hughes (#58), 4-star Jason Bohannon (#88), plus one 3-star (#116)
2005 - 5-star Joe Krabbenhoft (#23), plus one 3-star
2004 - 4-star Greg Stiemsma (#45), plus two 3-star recruits (including #124)
2003 - 5-star Brian Butch (#9), plus two 3-star recruits

So, basically, he's hauled in a pair of 5-star guys, six 4-star guys, and 13 three-star players; almost all of which overlapped at one time or another. That's a good assembly of talent.
 



tjgopher said:
My standard "cut and paste" whenever this topic comes up:

In my opinion, one of the biggest misconceptions in the last decade in the Big Ten is that Bo Ryan's teams lack talent and it is all coaching. I do think Bo is a great coach, but let's not kid ourselves into thinking he's doing it with Missouri Valley Conference-level talent.

Bo's CURRENT ROSTER includes FIVE 4-star players and SIX 3-star players!! Why shouldn't they be good? There is plenty of talent there.

There always has been talent there. For example, his last seven classes:

2009 - two 3-star recruits
2008 - 4-star Jared Bergren (#74 nationally), plus three 3-star recruits
2007 - 4-star Jon Lueur (#82), 4-star Keaton Nankivil (#92), plus two 3-star recruits
2006 - 4-star Trevon Hughes (#58), 4-star Jason Bohannon (#88), plus one 3-star (#116)
2005 - 5-star Joe Krabbenhoft (#23), plus one 3-star
2004 - 4-star Greg Stiemsma (#45), plus two 3-star recruits (including #124)
2003 - 5-star Brian Butch (#9), plus two 3-star recruits

So, basically, he's hauled in a pair of 5-star guys, six 4-star guys, and 13 three-star players; almost all of which overlapped at one time or another. That's a good assembly of talent.
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If anything, it is that Ryan hasn't gotten much out of his guys individually. Butch and Krabby sure didn't look like McDonalds All Americans, and Stiemsma was brutal.
 

GophersOnTheRise said:
Bo Ryan gets as much talent as anyone, they're just not usually as flashy as other highly ranked recruits so people assume they're not as good.
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Seriously tho. Leuer, Hughes, Bohannon, Nankivil, and Berggren are all 4 star players (obviously Leuer out now though, and Berggren is low impact right nwo), Jordan Taylor was a pretty highly regarded 3 star. He's bringing in some good talent, he's not just working with crap. And notice, Hughes and Bohannon are really taking ownership of that squad and leading them, and they are 4-star SENIORS. When Minnesota gets to that point, we will be much better off. That's why I really hope these younger guys stick it out through this tough period, cause it can pay off in the end when they're older.

EDIT: Haha, shoulda read newest posts before posting mine. But point still applies LOL
 

rosevillegopher said:
Ryan is a good coach, but to say he doesn't get highly ranked players is incorrect. Leuer, Nakivil, Bohanan and Hughes, for example, were all 4 star recruits, and Krabenhoft and Butch were five stars. Once again, I'm not saying he's not a good coach, but he's not necessarily coaching up a bunch of 2-star and 3-star players.
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Yeah, but look at how many of those guys are white guys...and from places like Minnesota, SD, and Wisconsin to boot! They couldn't be that talented.
 





From the Barn said:
If anything, it is that Ryan hasn't gotten much out of his guys individually. Butch and Krabby sure didn't look like McDonalds All Americans, and Stiemsma was brutal.
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With regards to Butch -whoever assigned 5 stars to him was ONLY looking at his size. When he was a redshirt frosh at Wisky he was brutal. His improvement from there to his senior year was substantial to say the least.
 

look what Bo has done with Hughes..
for the past two years, he made LW look meek: wild runners, ill advised 3's, almost never an assist..
this year he rarely takes a shot 'out of the system'.. and takes over a game (duke) when needed.

(it helps that Taylor has improved to help at the point).

hughes remade his whole game to fit their system... can't say that for anyone on our team... maybe it just lacks a clear-cut 'system'.
 



UWOle said:
...and end up 1st team all conference and lead the team to an undisputed conference championship (regular season and tournament titles).
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...and brought down a total of 2 rebounds while his team did what his collegiate career did - failed to live up to expectations - as the Rodents were manhandled by a 10 seed in the tourney. Since then, Butch has gone on to get passed on in the draft and has continued to demonstrate his poor play overseas and in the D-League. Awesome!
 

Gopher Warrior said:
...and brought down a total of 2 rebounds while his team did what his collegiate career did - failed to live up to expectations - as the Rodents were manhandled by a 10 seed in the tourney. Since then, Butch has gone on to get passed on in the draft and has continued to demonstrate his poor play overseas and in the D-League. Awesome!
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You are a lovely person, a disservice to both fan bases you claim to represent.

I would be willing to bet that Butch has zero regrets about his career in Madison. He went through a number of difficult things (e.g Mom's cancer, mono, horrific elbow injury) and still had a productive career. Personally, I believe the worst thing to happen to him was to be named a McD's AA, as that raised expectations beyond what was reasonable. At 6'11" and 185, and rather unathletic, coming in as a freshman, he absolutely made the right decision to redshirt.

If you want to call winning the conference and losing in the Sweet 16 to Davidson in a year where no one picked them in the top 3 in the conference not living up to expectations, well then I don't what to say.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
Bo cRyan gets McDonald's All-Americans that redshirt.

Bucky blows.
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I hate Bucky basketball just as much as anybody, but not sure a Marquette fan should be goofing on a team's McDonald's All-American players.
 

The only reason Bo Ryan does well is cause no one plays that 1950's style of basketball and it bores the other team half to death, so the Badgers win by default. All they do is throw the ball around for 33 seconds and then launch a shot when the defense has a minor lapse. They're so trained in doing that, that it becomes good.
 

Wisconsin as an athletic department is committed to winning. Also, BO gets kids who usually stay for 3 or 4 years (vs 1yr/2yr and done) and is able to put together a style that is very effective. Each kid knows their role on the team. He is a good recruiter, great coach and knows how to run a superior basketball program with BETTER THAN AVERAGE and a notch below top tier talent. The main thing is the AD and administration support the program and what it takes to win.

Badger athletics makes Gopher Athltics look pathetic....I wish mor epeople would ask why and lay the respnsibility where it belongs..........
 

UWOle said:
You are a lovely person, a disservice to both fan bases you claim to represent.

Personally, I believe the worst thing to happen to him was to be named a McD's AA, as that raised expectations beyond what was reasonable.
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Guy, thanks for the compliments - the hypocrisy is a nice look. Hard for you to admit, but you're agreeing with me that Butch failed to live up to expectations.

And yes - I am saying that the 'undisputed Big Ten champs' losing to a 10 seed in the tourney is a failure to live up to expectations.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
Guy, thanks for the compliments - the hypocrisy is a nice look. Hard for you to admit, but you're agreeing with me that Butch failed to live up to expectations.

And yes - I am saying that the 'undisputed Big Ten champs' losing to a 10 seed in the tourney is a failure to live up to expectations.
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Davidson beat the Big East champ, Big 10 champ, and was a shot away from beating the eventual national champ. And they had an NBA lottery pick. What a horrible loss for UW.
 

Bo Ryan always gets mid to upper level recruits. They almost always are mediocre/bad/don't play their freshman year (Alando Tucker excluded) and then explode their sophomore seasons.

He finds the perfect talent for his system, and what he's doing fits perfectly into the Big Ten.

On the bright side, he is 62, a lot older than most people think he is.
 

UWOle said:
Davidson beat the Big East champ, Big 10 champ, and was a shot away from beating the eventual national champ. And they had an NBA lottery pick. What a horrible loss for UW.
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You're right. If Butler makes it to the Final Four, then this season will be a huge success for Gopher basketball. And I can't wait to see how the Gophers do this season at the NBA draft.. I mean, what if there are like, 6 or even 8 guys that we played against and then are drafted by NBA teams!!! Surely that means we were great!!! Let's not talk about how we play... it's more important about how our opponents play.. and where their players get drafted! yeah!

Great argument.

My comments stand and you know they are right - Butch failed to live up to expectations and the Rodents failed to live up to expectations in the tourney during her senior year.
 

UWOle said:
Davidson beat the Big East champ, Big 10 champ, and was a shot away from beating the eventual national champ. And they had an NBA lottery pick. What a horrible loss for UW.
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It was a 17 point beating.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
My comments stand and you know they are right - Butch failed to live up to expectations and the Rodents failed to live up to expectations in the tourney during her senior year.
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I'd love to not live up to expectations by winning an outright Big Ten title and the Big Ten tournament behind a guy in Butch who was First Team ALL-Big Ten. Yeah, that would suck to underachieve like that. Christ, dude, give it a rest. We haven't won a Big Ten title since 1982 and you're talking trash to a team that lost in an NCAA tourney that we were not part of. Don't you see how stupid that makes you look? At least they were in the freaking tournament with a chance to lose a game. We were home watching after an NIT loss.
 

Gopher Warrior said:
You're right. If Butler makes it to the Final Four, then this season will be a huge success for Gopher basketball. And I can't wait to see how the Gophers do this season at the NBA draft.. I mean, what if there are like, 6 or even 8 guys that we played against and then are drafted by NBA teams!!! Surely that means we were great!!! Let's not talk about how we play... it's more important about how our opponents play.. and where their players get drafted! yeah!

Great argument.

My comments stand and you know they are right - Butch failed to live up to expectations and the Rodents failed to live up to expectations in the tourney during her senior year.
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Davidson was a very good team that season and played great in the tournament. UW's 2007-08 season was a over-achieivement as a whole. A 3-seed losing to a 10-seed sucked, but Davidson was better than Georgetown, better than Wisconsin and darn near better than Kansas when it mattered in March.

In regards to Butch, expectations were certainly high based on the honors he received for his HS and AAU play. That said, it was clear once he got on campus that he had physical limitations and that the initial expectations were much too high. If you want to look at him as McD's AA, go ahead and say whatever you want. If you are realistic, he did just fine with what he had.
 

tjgopher said:
I'd love to not live up to expectations by winning an outright Big Ten title and the Big Ten tournament behind a guy in Butch who was First Team ALL-Big Ten. Yeah, that would suck to underachieve like that. Christ, dude, give it a rest. We haven't won a Big Ten title since 1982 and you're talking trash to a team that lost in an NCAA tourney that we were not part of. Don't you see how stupid that makes you look? At least they were in the freaking tournament with a chance to lose a game. We were home watching after an NIT loss.
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Huh? You're a confused youngster. The original post was claiming Bo Ryan got crap players and made great things out of poop. I simply gave an example of Brian Butch being a McDonald's All-American that redshirted and didn't meet expectations. My comments on this thread have little to nothing to do with the Gophers. "Don't YOU see how stupid that makes you look"? I'm not talking trash, I'm talking reality. Stay on topic, my man.

UWOle said:
If you want to look at him as McD's AA, go ahead and say whatever you want. If you are realistic, he did just fine with what he had.
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'Realistic'? What does that mean? His accolades were unwarranted? He got praise that was not due to him? He was crazy overrated? Sounds to me like you're just giving excuses to why he failed to meet expectations. You can cry about him getting praise that he should not have gotten, the fact is he was a disappointment to many Rodent fans, he underachieved as compared to other McDonald's All-Americans, and in his senior year his last game he got 2 rebounds while his team got absolutely demolished by a 10 seed.

UWole, your argument has crumbled to this: people thought he was better than he ever was. He was overrated. If you knew he was not as good as the general public claimed he was, then he did great. I knew he was not that good, and based on my knowledge he wasn't as good as advertised, he did pretty well.

That is horrible and disgraceful. Your whining about me being a 'disservice to fan bases' is fine - more nonsense from a guy that doesn't like to deal with reality.

Butch = fell short of expectations.
Rodents in the tourney = hammered by a 10 seed, fell short of expectations in the tourney, in a game Butch had 2 rebounds in.
 

UWOle said:
Davidson was a very good team that season and played great in the tournament. UW's 2007-08 season was a over-achieivement as a whole. A 3-seed losing to a 10-seed sucked, but Davidson was better than Georgetown, better than Wisconsin and darn near better than Kansas when it mattered in March.

In regards to Butch, expectations were certainly high based on the honors he received for his HS and AAU play. That said, it was clear once he got on campus that he had physical limitations and that the initial expectations were much too high. If you want to look at him as McD's AA, go ahead and say whatever you want. If you are realistic, he did just fine with what he had.
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You still leave out the 17 point beating part. I remember watching it and it was ugly. GT only lost to them by 4.
 

Gopher Warrior - Not ever McDonald's AA pans turns out to be a great player. Do you think Butch had an elite skillset or something? All this being said, I'd rather lose to Davidson in the sweet 16 than lose to an 18-14 Maryland team in the first round of the NIT. As TJgopher said, just give it up. There's no point to your argument.
 

streetfighter said:
Gopher Warrior - Not ever McDonald's AA pans turns out to be a great player. Do you think Butch had an elite skillset or something? All this being said, I'd rather lose to Davidson in the sweet 16 than lose to an 18-14 Maryland team in the first round of the NIT. As TJgopher said, just give it up. There's no point to your argument.
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My argument has already been won and proven by facts. Your typing is based on emotion and youth. Shhhhhh
 

Gopher Warrior said:
Butch = fell short of expectations.
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What were your expectations of him? I mean all he did was earn consensus First Team All-Big Ten and lead his team to an outright Big Ten title, a Big Ten Tournament title, and a trip to the NCAA Tourney. I'd love for ANY Gopher to not meet expectations to that level any time in the next couple of years.
 

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