Wisconsin got hosed

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MNSpaniel

MNSpaniel

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I was starting to think the Gophers were the only ones that get screwed over by the refs. I only watched part of the game so I don't know if Northwestern could have kicked a FG if they had to in the end. However, that clearly was not a punt return violation on Wis. and they should have had a touchdown. Kind of left a warm feeling in my chest to know that we can share our outrage with the Badger faithful .
 

Yeah, well, B1G refs did the same thing Craig James this year, and the explanation then was the same last night,
you CANNOT MAKE ANY MOTION WITH YOUR ARMS and advance a punt. Not even to wave off your own players.
I don't know if that's what the rule says verbatim, but that was their explanation, and the talking rubes at B1G
Network tended to agree.

(Although, I think they flagged James for delay of game for doing it?)
 

I buy the explanation. Arm-waving your teammates away from the ball may be instinctual, but has no value, since teammates are focused on blocking opponents. Opponents, however, are focused on the return guy so arm motion should only be a sign for fair-catch protection. Special teams coaches can teach returners all the stuff, and probably do, but it’s interesting to watch each weekend how many returners don’t know the fundamentals. James barely raised one hand to neck height, then changes his mind. Wisconsin's guy was very animated his his arm-waving, so they did NOT get hosed on that call. The juggled TD catch is a much less clear argument...
 


Many years ago I returned punts in college and we were always told to raise our arms high and make a deliberate wave that all could see. The emphasis was always on hand over the head. Maybe they have changed the rules since then. To me it was obvious that he was not making a fair catch call. It is probably one of those things they will make a point of emphasis next year along with making sure teams know when the clock starts.
 


MNSpaniel said:
Many years ago I returned punts in college and we were always told to raise our arms high and make a deliberate wave that all could see. The emphasis was always on hand over the head. Maybe they have changed the rules since then. To me it was obvious that he was not making a fair catch call. It is probably one of those things they will make a point of emphasis next year along with making sure teams know when the clock starts.
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Agreed. As a former punt returner myself, that's what we were taught. What's noteworthy is that punt return is so much different from kickoff retrun- more difficult.
 

Obvious illegal fair catch signal. It was the right call, so no hosure.
 

Lot of punt returners posting these days....
 

On the second to last play of the game, Wisconsin should have gotten an illegal motion as Stave was lurching forward at the snap. Would've been a 10 second runoff and game over, but it was not called. So cuts both ways.
 




MNSpaniel said:
To me it was obvious that he was not making a fair catch call. It is probably one of those things they will make a point of emphasis next year along with making sure teams know when the clock starts.
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You have the benefit of watching his hand motions on HDTV with the best possible camera angle. The rule is not written for the fan on the couch; it is written for the kickoff team.

Speaking of "knowing when the clock starts". Bucky had an opportunity to win at the end because the referees executed the placement correctly. The bobbled catch may have been controversial, but the referees gave them every benefit of the doubt when spotting the ball and starting the clock. They easily got 10 seconds and a verbal warning that the Gophers didn't against Michigan in an identical circumstance.
 

Goldmember said:
You have the benefit of watching his hand motions on HDTV with the best possible camera angle. The rule is not written for the fan on the couch; it is written for the kickoff team.

Speaking of "knowing when the clock starts". Bucky had an opportunity to win at the end because the referees executed the placement correctly. The bobbled catch may have been controversial, but the referees gave them every benefit of the doubt when spotting the ball and starting the clock. They easily got 10 seconds and a verbal warning that the Gophers didn't against Michigan in an identical circumstance.
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I am still not so sure. I would like to see the rule and how it is written for today's football. One thing for sure is that the Northwestern guys didn't seem think it was a fair catch. They were all attempting to tackle him right near the spot he caught the ball. The word "attempting" because the tackling effort was pretty poor.
 

Nobody has more of a gripe than MSU. That loss to Nebraska was bogus too and the would be undefeated.
 



Navin said:
On the second to last play of the game, Wisconsin should have gotten an illegal motion as Stave was lurching forward at the snap. Would've been a 10 second runoff and game over, but it was not called. So cuts both ways.
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True. Stave was hurt and the RB did a real heads up play by taking/spiking the snap. The announcers didn't even see it and I think the refs were taken off guard which might be why they didn't call that motion on Stave. The only thing the RB did wrong was he didn't seem to tell Stave he was going to take the snap for him. Stave looked more surprised than anyone when he started to move toward the center and his RB was there taking a snap. Kind of funny.

I'm glad WI got jobbed, but I think the non-TD they reviewed should have been a TD.
 


What bothers me on these type of situations, is that the refs didn't blow the play dead and throw a flag. I don't think that either happened yesterday nor I did see a flag nor hear a whistle during James punt return against CSU.

Erickson said he did not hear a whistle.

The refs set themselves up for a huge amount of ridicule and anger from the fans by not doing their job when the foul occurs.
 

The rules are pretty much clear, you can't take more tha two steps after making a valid or invalid fair catch signal, any waving of the arms below the shoulders is an invalid fair catch signal. The thing is that, the rule defines a valid fair catch and the interpretations show any waving of the arms, other than a valid fair catch is an invalid fair catch.
 

I really hate that bobble rule with a passion, possession of the ball and 2 feet down should be enough. On the bright side, it went against Wisconsin in this case.
 


Once again my issue is consistency. They called that catch incomplete because the ball moved when he hit the ground. Pretty much the same thing happened in the UNC - Virginia Tech game and they kept it as a reception.
 

MNSpaniel said:
I am still not so sure. I would like to see the rule and how it is written for today's football. One thing for sure is that the Northwestern guys didn't seem think it was a fair catch. They were all attempting to tackle him right near the spot he caught the ball. The word "attempting" because the tackling effort was pretty poor.
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No, on the replay #13 from NU pulls up and jogs right past Erickson after the hand waving and when the ball was rolling. Ball CANNOT be advanced. He was free to pick it up to stop it from rolling but he could not advance it once he waved off the return. It's just that 99% of the time when a returner makes that signal, he doesn't touch the ball.
 


Something must've been done or a whistle or something, to make #13 think it
was a fair catch, otherwise Erickson would have been leveled and wouldn't have scored
a TD....
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Mx-9ui2tjHQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

Catechol said:
No, on the replay #13 from NU pulls up and jogs right past Erickson after the hand waving and when the ball was rolling. Ball CANNOT be advanced. He was free to pick it up to stop it from rolling but he could not advance it once he waved off the return. It's just that 99% of the time when a returner makes that signal, he doesn't touch the ball.
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...as a caveat--if ANY player on the receiving team calls fair catch, the ball is dead where caught, whomever catches it or picks it up. On an onside kick, it can be done after the ball goes 10 yards. I have seen entire teams call fair catch on pooch kicks. That's just good coaching.
 

nsmike said:
The rules are pretty much clear, you can't take more tha two steps after making a valid or invalid fair catch signal, any waving of the arms below the shoulders is an invalid fair catch signal. The thing is that, the rule defines a valid fair catch and the interpretations show any waving of the arms, other than a valid fair catch is an invalid fair catch.
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Exactly. Rule is very clear. Both calls were correct. Still, doesn't mean the B1G refs have been pretty awful. Clock reset at the half...was waiting for the announcer to start playing circus music or the Benny Hill theme...
 

F*** whisky. I don't think they got hosed, but it'll take a lot of times of them getting hosed to even out.
 


GophersInIowa said:
Once again my issue is consistency. They called that catch incomplete because the ball moved when he hit the ground. Pretty much the same thing happened in the UNC - Virginia Tech game and they kept it as a reception.
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The rule sucks and because it sucks the refs/replay is inconsistent. In the Notre Dame/BC game the FB caught a pass and before getting full control and they ruled a fumble. They allowed it to stand BC gained yards by recovering the fumble. IMO it was less of a catch than the Wisconsin play. At what point is it a TD and the contact by the defender is a second act of the play? Terribly written rule.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

spackler said:
F*** whisky. I don't think they got hosed, but it'll take a lot of times of them getting hosed to even out.
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Well, I think they did get hosed which makes it even sweeter. F*** them for sure!
 

Mulligan said:
Well, I think they did get hosed which makes it even sweeter. F*** them for sure!
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Karma 4 those drunk pieces of S_it. These are the same fans that throw snowballs at their own cheerleaders.
 

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