Williams Arena: If you could upgrade it, what would you do?

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WriterGoph said:
I just think if they were going to spend all that money to build a replica, they'd try to maintain the shell of the building for history's sake and do a full rebuild inside.
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Unless you want the replica to have just one playing arena, which would allow for all the extra space to go towards stuff that would make it a fantastic, brand new facility.

Build a brand new arena with all the amenities, but with just one playing arena, not two. Basketball, volleyball, wrestling, gymnastics all could use the same 12,000 seat, old-school, unbelievable arena. The upper deck could be closed off for a more intimate environment for the sports who don't have the attendance demand. It also would allow volleyball to draw more than 6000 on nights demand would allow it, which might be most nights.

The space you gain by eliminating the Pav can go towards lobbies, concessions, added restrooms, club rooms for boosters, locker rooms, weight rooms, training rooms, loading and unloading, and a possible side gym/facility for volleyball to practice.

There is a bunch of space there and you really only need one playing arena. With basically every team now having its own practice area you eliminate the demand for floor space, which was why you used to need both Williams and the Pav. You really don't anymore. There are almost no practices currently held at Williams Arena.
 



Bad Gopher said:
This makes the most sense of anything I've heard. You're totally confined on the west side. On the north side you have the street; even if you remove a travel lane, that still only buys you a dozen feet at most. On the east you have the gathering space, which is nice. I've wondered whether there's a way to build second-floor restrooms outside the original wall over that gathering space.

The south side is where you have some options, as you noted. Rather than another gathering space, my thought is build something inside the ticketed area, perhaps a dual-level food court of some kind with an escalator.

One way or another, if you establish second-floor restrooms on the east and south sides, you provide a restroom option a short, level walk from anywhere on the second level.
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This would be a good idea. You still can do restrooms on two levels with an open food court. Heck you could even expand underground. I never been in the locker area but I assume it could use some improvement.
One of the reason I think University is the best option is that all this work can be done without shutting down normal operations on the building.
 

I think the cure is winning. The experience is extra special when the team is good because of how unique the experience is. If the game is super exciting which it has been less often lately I can deal with the quirkiness.
 


A ramp all the way around the floor so that elevated floor is eliminated. Less worry about players injuries.
 

The Barn is special and should be improved but preserved, there is no better sports venue in Minnesota when the product on the floor is competitive. Please restore the classic honey floor and Goldy at center court.
 

Remodel it for game day volleyball, wrestling and women's gymnastics. Build a new basketball arena.
 





GoldenUMNGopher said:
100% agree, you can't fix it. Way too many obstructed view seats. People need to get over the nostalgia.
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Absolutely! Rip it down and rebuild it it. Then add it to the Lost Minneapolis series on WCCO where we bemoan the wonderful architecture and history we once had but which is now lost. 😥
 

bga1 said:
Some of this was mentioned years ago by a veteran poster here, but I can't remember who- station 19 perhaps?
Anyway- I would blow the inside of the old hockey side out and make it the main entry area and a lot of the concessions and add new stairways up to the balcony. Then put on a two story addition on the University side which would add to the width of the walkways on the perimeter and create new stairwells going to the balcony seats. There is nothing wrong with the basketball court and seating area. Yes, there are obstructed seats, but if people don't buy them- so sweat. You can never duplicate the closeness to the floor you get in the Barn and if you have a good team and a full house, the experience is amazing...much better than new building IMO.

Wide concourses, easier to access concessions, better stairwells and a better look on the perimeter is all that is needed. The building would be awesome with an industrial design to the staircases etc.
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reply to quote above:


I am sure that others have suggested the above as well, but I have advocated for building a new large structure at least up the beginning of the curved roof, or higher, on the University side all the way out to University Avenue, and finding a way to heavily integrate it into the south seating area, possibly completely rebuilding that side of the current two decks.

The more important idea is to blow the wall out and make use of much, if not all of the Pavilion space. I would suggest completely starting over with seating on the west end with much more tapered series of decks, open concourses/ vantage points and great hospitality spaces very deep into the old Hockey space, with possibly the whole thing opened up to the roof line to the west as originally configured, pre- 1950. I'd suggest highlighting the large west facing windows in the old hockey arena and restoring as many off the bricked up windows in the whole place, and there are a lot of them. I would not want to lose any capacity either.

Of course it would be a whole lot easier to blow the whole thing up and build a 15,500 seat "new Yankee Stadium" type version. I'd envision a 15-16k 2021 version of the Indiana Pacer's fieldhouse with some Williams arena style cosmetic touches added.
 
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SanDiegoGopherFan said:
Huh, found an article talking about the raised floor. Not many fans of it from the brief read

Elevated Courts: A Good Thing for NCAA Basketball?
ANDREW KNEELANDMARCH 28, 2008

gia_crop_north.jpg&w=630&h=420

If you are planning to attend a Midwest or South regional game this NCAA Tournament, you may be in for a surprise.
The NCAA is "experimenting" with a new-look for their games by raising the elevation of the playing court by 27 inches. They will be placing the court at the 50-yard line of a football field instead of situating the court in a corner.
There is some mixed feedback from this change. Players are obviously worried about injuring themselves, like Villanova guard Scottie Reynolds:
"What if we go for the loose ball and dive off the court? I mean, that's the thing I was scared about."

It also stirs up the coaching mindset. Bill Self, head coach of the top-seeded Kansas Jayhawks, says it causes a problem for him:
"I like to coach sitting down. But if you do that here, you're 15 feet away from the court."
Players and coaches aren't too fond of the change, but NCAA officials are all for it because of the fan's new viewpoint.




















Videos you might like
Kent State athletic director and member of the NCAA Division I basketball committee Laing Kennedy has this to say about the elevated courts:
"It really opens up the whole stadium and makes it so much better for the fans. Having the court elevated like that just makes for a terrific view from the upper level."
It's a battle of fans against players. Fans and officials love the new-look, while players like Memphis guard Chris Douglas-Roberts aren't too fond of the idea:
"I'm definitely not jumping in the stands. I'm not even going to act like it. If it's going out of bounds and I can't get it, hey I'm not going to fake hustle and act like I'm diving for it."
Those two opinions aren't the only viewpoints out there, though. Texas guard A.J. Abrams says that the change is something that you can get used to fairly easily:
"There's going to be an obvious depth perception [problem] just from the goals, but nothing you can't handle. Just go out and get a couple shots up and get the feel of it and that's what it's all about."

NCAA Tournament officials have apparently taken the players opinion into their plans, as they have added a ten-foot carpet section bordering the elevated court to slow down any player who might be rolling across it.
This change will have an affect on attendance numbers, which is taken into account by the NCAA. The more people, the better, right? The world record for highest attendance in a basketball game is 78,129 in 2003 when Kentucky beat Michigan State.
Experts don't expect that kind of attendance, but they do expect a twenty percent increase in attendance from last year, totaling somewhere around 250,000 fans.
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Big difference is the big money seats at Williams look upwards where the entire NCAA crown looks down.
 



GoldenUMNGopher said:
100% agree, you can't fix it. Way too many obstructed view seats. People need to get over the nostalgia.
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Maybe get a better job and buy better seats if obstructed view seats is all you can afford?
Establish relationships with scalpers....learn the seating diagram. Donate money and buy better tickets. Buy better seats on Stub Hub. Plan ahead. Get better friends. There is zero reason to sit in obstructed seats, 2nd deck other than the first row or deep in any corners up or down.
Change your thoughts, change your life.
They build a new arena with that attitude you'll still have horse dump seats.
 


oak_street1981 said:
reply to quote above:


I am sure that others have suggested the above as well, but I have advocated for building a new large structure at least up the beginning of the curved roof, or higher, on the University side all the way out to University Avenue, and finding a way to heavily integrate it into the south seating area, possibly completely rebuilding that side of the current two decks.

The more important idea is to blow the wall out and make use of much, if not all of the Pavilion space. I would suggest completely starting over with seating on the west end with much more tapered series of decks, open concourses/ vantage points and great hospitality spaces very deep into the old Hockey space, with possibly the whole thing opened up to the roof line to the west as originally configured, pre- 1950. I'd suggest highlighting the large west facing windows in the old hockey arena and restoring as many off the bricked up windows in the whole place, and there are a lot of them. I would not want to lose any capacity either.

Of course it would be a whole lot easier to blow the whole thing up and build a 15,500 seat "new Yankee Stadium" type version. I'd envision a 15-16k 2021 version of the Indiana Pacer's fieldhouse with some Williams arena style cosmetic touches added.
Click to expand...
I do like the idea of un-blocking the bricked-up windows. There's a lot that could be done to restore the older, lost features of the place. I'm not an architect, but when I close my eyes and imagine the dual-level concession area I've proposed, I envision brick archways delineating sub-spaces within the larger space, echoing the arched windows in the exterior walls.
 

Always wondered if it’s wide enough to rotate floor 90 degrees and then build two levels of seats on each side of the court. More seats would be between the baselines, less behind each basket. You’d have to gut the interior but it would allow for more concessions on either side. Northwestern did a great job with Welsh-Ryan arena when they gutted it. It might reduce capacity a little but you’d have much better sight lines.
 

The 90 degree rotation idea not real popular with me, I'd rather just start over with a new building before I'd do that, but it is not a terrible idea.

The Butler (Hinkle now) Fieldhouse in Indianapolis is best known for the Hoosiers movie, and it also looks sort like Williams Arena from the outside and about the same age. I recall seeing early interior photos of The Fieldhouse and it once had a configuration like Williams Arena, but they rotated the court 90 degrees fairly early in the history of the building.

I have seen Butler games on TV and am not a fan of that look. I do like the old arena in general though. The old Welsh Ryan at Northwestern (and the newest version) have the same set up.

Hinkle Fieldhouse - Google Search

www.google.com
 

gregbrady said:
Always wondered if it’s wide enough to rotate floor 90 degrees and then build two levels of seats on each side of the court. More seats would be between the baselines, less behind each basket. You’d have to gut the interior but it would allow for more concessions on either side. Northwestern did a great job with Welsh-Ryan arena when they gutted it. It might reduce capacity a little but you’d have much better sight lines.
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There is not enough footprint to turn the court.
 

tjgopher said:
Unless you want the replica to have just one playing arena, which would allow for all the extra space to go towards stuff that would make it a fantastic, brand new facility.

Build a brand new arena with all the amenities, but with just one playing arena, not two. Basketball, volleyball, wrestling, gymnastics all could use the same 12,000 seat, old-school, unbelievable arena. The upper deck could be closed off for a more intimate environment for the sports who don't have the attendance demand. It also would allow volleyball to draw more than 6000 on nights demand would allow it, which might be most nights.

The space you gain by eliminating the Pav can go towards lobbies, concessions, added restrooms, club rooms for boosters, locker rooms, weight rooms, training rooms, loading and unloading, and a possible side gym/facility for volleyball to practice.

There is a bunch of space there and you really only need one playing arena. With basically every team now having its own practice area you eliminate the demand for floor space, which was why you used to need both Williams and the Pav. You really don't anymore. There are almost no practices currently held at Williams Arena.
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I agree with this if an auxiliary gym/practice space would be built where the Pav is. A brand new volleyball practice and donor entertaining facility just opened like last year at the Pav, facing towards it from within the "common wall". Would be a shame/silly to just demolish that and have to rebuild it. (not saying you're suggesting that)

Volleyball would still fight you tooth and nail. They like the Pav and don't care about it restricting available tickets. They like the small, intimate, filled atmosphere, and would argue that "curtaining off" the upper deck in a two-deck big arena is not equivalent. Some big volleyball programs (Florida, off the top of my head) do this, so there is some precedent to knowing the difference in experiences. Quite a few top volleyball programs play in a secondary gym, oftentimes one that used to be the main (basketball) gym and then was replaced with a newer, bigger facility. Other schools have just plain built new, dedicated volleyball (and other minor sport) gyms recently. Indiana and Iowa are two such.

The other Pav sports (just gymnastics and wrestling, I believe) I don't think would care as much about doing matches in the new "main arena".
 
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short ornery norwegian said:
given the size of the building and the internal layout, I'm not sure how much "tweaking" would really help.

if you really wanted to bring it into the 21st century, you would basically have to keep the outside shell and gut the interior, then rebuild it from the inside out. That would obviously be a huge project and completely outside of current financial reality. I can't remember - did the U ever reach it's fund-raising goal for the Athlete's Village? last time I saw any numbers, they were still quite a bit short.

Like it or not, the U does not have the kind of booster support - including fat cats with deep pockets - that you see at other D1 schools.
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I really thought Sid would leave a million or so to the U. Maybe he did and I missed it.
 

I’ve been attending/watching games at Williams Arena for almost 50 years, and I’ve never seen a serious injury from a player going off the edge of the floor. I don’t remember that many times that a player even left the floor. Maybe one every year or two? My guess is that there have been more players injured trying to leap the seats to save a possession in a typical arena.
 

I think most fans would be shocked at how different (worse) the view of the court would be if it wasn’t raised.
 

goldenboy said:
I’ve been attending/watching games at Williams Arena for almost 50 years, and I’ve never seen a serious injury from a player going off the edge of the floor. I don’t remember that many times that a player even left the floor. Maybe one every year or two? My guess is that there have been more players injured trying to leap the seats to save a possession in a typical arena.
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Agree. I too have never seen a serious injury, but opposing coaches still fear it.
 

MplsGopher said:
Volleyball would still fight you tooth and nail. They like the Pav and don't care about it restricting available tickets. They like the small, intimate, filled atmosphere, and would argue that "curtaining off" the upper deck in a two-deck big arena is not equivalent.
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I think we can get everything we need with a remodeled Williams without touching the Pav.
 


New arena funded by MN taxpayers!

(I just moved out of state)
 

Upgrade the restrooms. Upgrade the concessions.
More film/video locations for media. Upgrade media/press areas.

Keep the raised floor. The raised floor is the biggest factor in playing a controlled game. I realize the current trend is chaotic energy, but we have seen how that does not add to wins. That makes players feel like they need to play hero ball and continually try 3-point shots no matter how cold they are from the floor.

The raised floor makes you use your big men and rebounders in your game plan, one of the things Lil Ricky doesn't care about, er, has had "bad luck" with.
 
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HitMeAgainIAmStillMoving said:
I really thought Sid would leave a million or so to the U. Maybe he did and I missed it.
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Sid died about 4 1/2 months ago. Haven't seen any reporting on what was in his will, or even if he had one, but there was a story not to long ago about the liquidation of his real estate holdings (apartment buildings). The thought was that all together they would sell for around $180M to $200M. Not clear what Sid's estate would clear from those sales, but if he did make a provision for a gift to the U in his will it is likely still forthcoming. Wasn't a close personal friend, but my guess is that, if Sid did leave the money to the U, it won't have been done anonymously.
 

You can't do much without closing a road on one side or the other to widen it.

The wooden roof is a major fire hazard especially with the catwalk like stairways.

I saw plans once that kept the ends, Took off the roof, Raised the sides and flattened the top with the sides cantilevered over University and the road on the other side. This along with gutting the interior allowed for suites. 2nd floor concessions, bathrooms and windows.

Cost was pretty outrageous. It was a friends senior architecture project. Got him an A.

If I remember correctly seating was around 15,000.

Raised floor was pretty much untouched.
 

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