WI Roster Vs MN Roster

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BarnBurner

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For some time now, built badgers has repeatedly told us MN recruits better and has a better roster than WI.

Jonathon Davis or Jamal Mashburn Jr?
Micah Potter or Liam Robbins?
Dmitrick Trice or Marcus Carr?
Aleem Ford or Brandon Johnson?
Nate Reuvers or Eric Curry?

ETC ETC ETC

Before anyone has a fit, I am in no way slamming MN players.

Does built badgers stance hold water?
 

BarnBurner said:
For some time now, built badgers has repeatedly told us MN recruits better and has a better roster than WI.

Jonathon Davis or Jamal Mashburn Jr?
Micah Potter or Liam Robbins?
Dmitrick Trice or Marcus Carr?
Aleem Ford or Brandon Johnson?
Nate Reuvers or Eric Curry?

ETC ETC ETC

Before anyone has a fit, I am in no way slamming MN players.

Does built badgers stance hold water?
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I think if you replace Curry with Oturu Minnesota has the better talent. Wisconsin’s players aren’t talented enough to go pro. They get old and stay old.
 

There isn't much reason to compare. The teams play different styles so you need different type of players. Davison, Potter, Ruevers are great for their system, if you put them at Creighton who wants to run and gun they aren't nearly as useful. Look at Stefon Diggs, he was a good player for the Vikings, put him in a passing team hes a top 5 guy.

Point being they each have their strengths and weaknesses. As annoying as they are, Wisconsin has excelled on finding guys who are maximized in their system. Pitino seems to have figured out that a bit more this year
 

Angry said:
I think if you replace Curry with Oturu Minnesota has the better talent. Wisconsin’s players aren’t talented enough to go pro. They get old and stay old.
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I belive WI has put as many players in the NBA as MN has.
If the NBA scouts were watching this game Carr is not going to be drafted.
 

Does MN pluck good players from WI or is this simply a one way street?
 


Plato said:
I belive WI has put as many players in the NBA as MN has.
If the NBA scouts were watching this game Carr is not going to be drafted.
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This game had little to no impact on Marcus Carr's draft stock. Bucky was regularly throwing a double team at him and hedged every ball screen. When a team keys in on your star like Gard did to Marcus you need the rest of your guys to hit shots and punish them... we shot 30% from the field and 22% from three.
 

Parcival said:
This game had little to no impact on Marcus Carr's draft stock. Bucky was regularly throwing a double team at him and hedged every ball screen. When a team keys in on your star like Gard did to Marcus you need the rest of your guys to hit shots and punish them... we shot 30% from the field and 22% from three.
Click to expand...

It didn't have an impact because Marcus Carr was going to be mid-second round pick at best regardless of tonight. The fact of the matter is that when teams are doubling as quickly as WI was doubling, the ball needs to leave Carr's hands quicker. It's a difficult thing to teach. It's almost like how it's difficult to teach QBs to release the ball quickly. The timing is just off by a bit. A lot of this is not Carr's fault, but the best players/the nba caliber players need to have this skill especially if they are going to be high usage. I can't envision a scenario where Carr is a super effective player without being high usage.
 

Plato said:
I belive WI has put as many players in the NBA as MN has.
If the NBA scouts were watching this game Carr is not going to be drafted.
Click to expand...

For a program that has won as much as WI, it's almost impressive how few NBA players they have.

They currently have 1, Frank Kaminsky who is sitting on the end of the bench in PHX.

Minnesota - 2
Illinois - 2
Indiana - 7
Iowa - 0
Maryland - 5
Michigan - 9
Michigan State - 8
Nebraska - 1
NW - 0
OSU - 4
Penn State - 1
Purdue - 3
Rutgers - 0
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
For a program that has won as much as WI, it's almost impressive how few NBA players they have.

They currently have 1, Frank Kaminsky who is sitting on the end of the bench in PHX.

Minnesota - 2
Illinois - 2
Indiana - 7
Iowa - 0
Maryland - 5
Michigan - 9
Michigan State - 8
Nebraska - 1
NW - 0
OSU - 4
Penn State - 1
Purdue - 3
Rutgers - 0
Click to expand...
It just shows what really good coaching can do.
 



I whole heartedly believe our roster has more talent. Gard is phenomenal at defensive schemes and just teaching defense in general. Richards done his best coaching job so far this year, but he’s just not at Gard level and tonight was a good example
 

manderson1984 said:
I whole heartedly believe our roster has more talent. Gard is phenomenal at defensive schemes and just teaching defense in general. Richards done his best coaching job so far this year, but he’s just not at Gard level and tonight was a good example
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Player by player, tell us who is more talented.
 

Without doing any research, Carr, Liam, and maybe Gach, are more talented than anyone on the Wiskey roster. Gabes an equal player to Davison. Ruevers who’s been struggling this year is one if not the only Badger with a shot to be in an NBA roster.
 

manderson1984 said:
Without doing any research, Carr, Liam, and maybe Gach, are more talented than anyone on the Wiskey roster. Gabes an equal player to Davison. Ruevers who’s been struggling this year is one if not the only Badger with a shot to be in an NBA roster.
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Hmmm.
Jonathon Davis or Jamal Mashburn Jr?
Micah Potter or Liam Robbins?
Dmitrick Trice or Marcus Carr?
Aleem Ford or Brandon Johnson?
Nate Reuvers or Eric Curry?
 



Bob_Loblaw said:
For a program that has won as much as WI, it's almost impressive how few NBA players they have.

They currently have 1, Frank Kaminsky who is sitting on the end of the bench in PHX.

Minnesota - 2
Illinois - 2
Indiana - 7
Iowa - 0
Maryland - 5
Michigan - 9
Michigan State - 8
Nebraska - 1
NW - 0
OSU - 4
Penn State - 1
Purdue - 3
Rutgers - 0
Click to expand...

Sure, but these things ebb and flow. A few years ago, Wisconsin had 4 players in the NBA who had spent a significant amount of time in the league (Kaminsky, Dekker, Leuer, and Devin Harris). I'm not counting players like Nigel Hayes who appeared only in a small number of games under a short-term contracts. A few years earlier, they had an undrafted blue collar type like Greg Steimsma who managed to appear in 203 games. Of course, these were all Bo Ryan guys (although Devin Harris was already at Wisconsin when Ryan arrived).

For some time, Minnesota had only Humphries and no one after he retired until these last two years. Oturu was the first Minnesota player drafted after Humphries and the in-between time was 16 years.

Of course, historically, Minnesota definitely beats Wisconsin in NBA contributions. Minnesota has had 11 players who have played 10 or more years in the NBA (some have had ABA time included) while Wisconsin has had only 3 (Devin Harris, Michael Finley, and Wes Matthews).
 

manderson1984 said:
Ruevers who’s been struggling this year is one if not the only Badger with a shot to be in an NBA roster.
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Actually, more players than you might think end up on NBA rosters but many of them are only there for a short period of time (a small number of games on short-term contracts).
 

BarnBurner said:
Hmmm.
Jonathon Davis or Jamal Mashburn Jr?
Micah Potter or Liam Robbins?
Dmitrick Trice or Marcus Carr?
Aleem Ford or Brandon Johnson?
Nate Reuvers or Eric Curry?QUOTE]

We talking talent or who’s a better player currently?
Reuvers over Curry is it.
Click to expand...
 

I would say that Gophs roster is more athletic but Badgers is more skilled.
 


BarnBurner said:
Hmmm.
Jonathon Davis or Jamal Mashburn Jr?
Micah Potter or Liam Robbins?
Dmitrick Trice or Marcus Carr?
Aleem Ford or Brandon Johnson?
Nate Reuvers or Eric Curry?
Click to expand...
Ruevers vs Johnson and Ford vs Gabe would be a better comparison. So would Curry vs Crowl, Tre vs Davis and Ihnen vs Wahl.
 

BarnBurner said:
For some time now, built badgers has repeatedly told us MN recruits better and has a better roster than WI.

Jonathon Davis or Jamal Mashburn Jr?
Micah Potter or Liam Robbins?
Dmitrick Trice or Marcus Carr?
Aleem Ford or Brandon Johnson?
Nate Reuvers or Eric Curry?

ETC ETC ETC

Before anyone has a fit, I am in no way slamming MN players.

Does built badgers stance hold water?
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I said if you go by recruiting rankings first we are about equal to UVA and UW. SOMETIMES, slightly better sometimes worse, sometimes nearly the same. 2nd, you go by results. That is the result off evaluation and development and coaching to cohesion to skill, away from weakness.. we know how that looks. I could care less about rankings because of decades of poor evaluation, bad rankings by the services, some scouts and many coaches. All miss on some, some never improve and on and on. Ty Jerome was at 232 when offered, no other meaningful offers and after he decided on UVA they bumped him up. Hunter missed his junior year of high school with a severe leg injury, was under valued and without elite offers until late but UVA was already all in. Brogdon was 98 and became defensive player of the year, all ACC , NBA rookie of the year. Clark was in the 200's with a Cal Davis verbal but the little guy got UVA and made "The Play" on the road to a national title.... I could go on and on. UW found Penney unranked, they found Tucker undersized and undervalued , They found Frank Kaminsky ranked in the 200's. They got Harris after a missed junior year with a injury undervalued. They focused on intangibles, anyone can see talent but those intangibles, how they translate , how they fit together is really hard and some are better seeing it and implementing it. Far too early this year to determine final grades on how this plays out. Still really like this roster. But they will have to make shots, that is not on coach but it bis when it comes to playing defense to the hilt on every possession of every game. Last night, yesterday we did that for 20 minutes and stayed in the game, unlike the Illinois game. So I see signs. Player by player is hard in systems but anyone can see Carr has more talent but Trice more attention to skill , especially defense. Each has talent but poor skill. Robbins is terrific for how little time he has. Nate has little quick twitch talent but really good team skills. Ford and Johnson are about a wash. Davison, whom I do not like plays smart and his mates love him. The players I mentioned in other programs have received high level teaching. It is very difficult to be great and that word is earned. People know it when they see it. It is like a Beard practice, he is just better at it then most.
 

die hard gopher said:
Ruevers vs Johnson and Ford vs Gabe would be a better comparison. So would Curry vs Crowl, Tre vs Davis and Ihnen vs Wahl.
Click to expand...
Wahl is a great example. He simply can not shoot but he makes his team better when he plays. Super smart player. He knows the court, he knows his limitations.
 



manderson1984 said:
I whole heartedly believe our roster has more talent. Gard is phenomenal at defensive schemes and just teaching defense in general. Richards done his best coaching job so far this year, but he’s just not at Gard level and tonight was a good example
Click to expand...
Well, we lost game one this season, so far. In the previous four games Pitino has split...won two, lost two versus Gard. Pitino’s two losses in those games are by 5 points and two points. We win the home game and I’d say the matchup is much more even than “not at Gard level” head to head.
Pitino does need to beat the rest of the Big Ten at a Gard pace to truly be a dead heat but... mostly they have very different approaches and Gard is great in conference title chases. Richard still may get there.

But in a Wisconsin vs Minnesota discussion head to head they’re pretty close.
 

60's Guy said:
Well, we lost game one this season, so far. In the previous four games Pitino has split...won two, lost two versus Gard. Pitino’s two losses in those games are by 5 points and two points. We win the home game and I’d say the matchup is much more even than “not at Gard level” head to head.
Pitino does need to beat the rest of the Big Ten at a Gard pace to truly be a dead heat but... mostly they have very different approaches and Gard is great in conference title chases. Richard still may get there.

But in a Wisconsin vs Minnesota discussion head to head they’re pretty close.
Click to expand...

Richard could get there certainly. Gards brilliance comes in building and recruiting to his culture, while being a really good teacher. Players love him and believe in him. Gards also very good at setting up defensive schemes to slow down and disrupt teams offenses. That formula is the sole reason imo that Wisconsin does so well in conference races. I don’t doubt Richards bball acumen. I do doubt his ability to teach defense and until recently I always felt like his recruiting was a take the best guy strategy's finding the right guy for us. I hope Richard continues to improve like I’ve seen this year. Gard is just already there imo.
 

manderson1984 said:
Richard could get there certainly. Gards brilliance comes in building and recruiting to his culture, while being a really good teacher. Players love him and believe in him. Gards also very good at setting up defensive schemes to slow down and disrupt teams offenses. That formula is the sole reason imo that Wisconsin does so well in conference races. I don’t doubt Richards bball acumen. I do doubt his ability to teach defense and until recently I always felt like his recruiting was a take the best guy strategy's finding the right guy for us. I hope Richard continues to improve like I’ve seen this year. Gard is just already there imo.
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Yeah, not much to argue with overall...just head to head he’s not outclassed. Overall he is. Agree, Richard’s roster management is his huge shortcoming.
 

die hard gopher said:
Ruevers vs Johnson and Ford vs Gabe would be a better comparison. So would Curry vs Crowl, Tre vs Davis and Ihnen vs Wahl.
Click to expand...
Overall roster is the topic, not necessarily one on one. I simply picked players on each team.
 

A meaningless exercise because it is how the individual members play together that allowed WI to get into the NCAA on a regular basis and the occasional Final Fours.
Something that MN has not seen since the Haskins scandal.
Ryan and his protege Gard are just better coaches than anyone that MN has hired.
 

Plato said:
A meaningless exercise because it is how the individual members play together that allowed WI to get into the NCAA on a regular basis and the occasional Final Fours.
Something that MN has not seen since the Haskins scandal.
Ryan and his protege Gard are just better coaches than anyone that MN has hired.
Click to expand...
Meaningless only if you dont care about reality. WI roster has better players than MN. Thats the point.
 


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