Why won't they play Gray/Alipate

[Winnipegopher]

This has me totally confused. I accept Weber gives them the best chance to win but why not get someone in when the game is over (ie 4th quarter vs tOSU). Part of this is Weber's fault- he is too tough. I could not believe it when he got rocked, fumbled, and still managed to get up to chase the ball carrier to the end zone. He is one tough s.o.b, a break might do him wonders.

Here is a summary of some of the reasons they don't play anyone else:

Horton is coaching for himself
This argument gets trotted out a lot but college coaches are not stupid (notable exception: Gopher coaches) and will look into a hire beyond their statistics. Additionally, if Gopher QB flounders next year, media will harp on the fact they did not prepare Gray/Alipate during a lost 1-11 season.

No one is able/prepared to play
This is Horton's stated reason. If true, then all of the offensive coaches should be fired. How do you not have a QB ready to play? You have two back-ups who have two years in the program. EVERY other team has back-ups who can play (Purdue's third string beat us). Horrible, horrible excuse. Additionally, Weber is playing in front of an experienced line. Next year will see major change to this unit and the new qb will be running for his life, now is the time to get some reps. It is a testament to Gray that he appears to be a team guy and accepts this situation.

They are trying to get Weber records
Kind of makes sense, but why? It is too bad but Weber's legacy will be as the QB of two 1-11 teams and the creation of a new term, "Weber Time", to take the place of the over-used "garbage time".

Anyone care to add to the list or explain why my reasoning is flawed?

Personally, given the way the season is going, I would play all three in the next two games, and if Gray/Alipate struggle, go back to only Weber against Iowa. Season is over, let's build for next year.

 

[Silvio]

For coaches other than the Head Coach they can only be held responsible for their side of the ball when looking for their next job. At this point I believe Horton wants to show a strong improvement with Weber compared to last year for future interviews. He also wants to help Weber up the record books in terms of passing yards. 1, as a reward to weber for the tough situation for his college career (number of OC's & scheme changes), 2, it will help Weber's chances of getting a look as an undrafted free agent.

 

[WHB Brewer]

For coaches other than the Head Coach they can only be held responsible for their side of the ball when looking for their next job. At this point I believe Horton wants to show a strong improvement with Weber compared to last year for future interviews. He also wants to help Weber up the record books in terms of passing yards. 1, as a reward to weber for the tough situation for his college career (number of OC's & scheme changes), 2, it will help Weber's chances of getting a look as an undrafted free agent.

This is the worst excuse of all for not playing Gray/Allipate. If Weber is good enough to play in the NFL, they will find him. Tom Brady & Matt Cassell were primarily backups in college. Both are starters in the NFL. There is plenty of evidence already available on Weber to determine his stack. 3 more game films will not change anything.

 

[Goldmember]

1. Alipate is not ready to play against a Big Ten team's 2nd team defense. Seeing the results would cause mourning among Gopher fans.

2. Gray (next year's starting QB with 98% certainty) is even less prepared (and would cause even more heartbreak) because he hasn't even been practicing as a QB this year.

3. Adam Weber is the closest thing this team has to a leader. And despite how you feel about his play, he has been a superhero as a team leader. This guy got absolutely hosed and he has been unwaveringly positive. Pulling him (with all his deserved popularity among his teammates), only to unveil a horrifying look at the future would undermine his leadership and crush the will of this very young team.

It has become evident that these guys will have their work cut-out for them to beat NDSU, NMSU and Miami (Ohio) next year. And there's absolutely no reason to make them think about that this month when they don't even know who their coaches are going to be.

There. You made me say it. Hope you're all happy. Now can we just quit with this QB crap?

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

This is the worst excuse of all for not playing Gray/Allipate. If Weber is good enough to play in the NFL, they will find him. Tom Brady & Matt Cassell were primarily backups in college. Both are starters in the NFL. There is plenty of evidence already available on Weber to determine his stack. 3 more game films will not change anything.

I have no idea where this misconception came from. Tom Brady started every single game of his Jr and Sr seasons at Michigan. Henson got a bit of PT in Brady's SR season, but it was merely a series or two. Tom Brady was like 2nd in all of the passing records at Michigan when he was done. He was a starter and All Big 10 honor mention both of his final seasons at Michigan.

 

[GopherGack]

3. Adam Weber is the closest thing this team has to a leader. And despite how you feel about his play, he has been a superhero as a team leader. This guy got absolutely hosed and he has been unwaveringly positive. Pulling him (with all his deserved popularity among his teammates), only to unveil a horrifying look at the future would undermine his leadership and crush the will of this very young team.


There. You made me say it. Hope you're all happy. Now can we just quit with this QB crap?

+1
If you replace Weber, even in those fourth quarters, you can create a QB controversy and that will fracture what has to be an already fragile locker room.

These kids have been unbelievably resilient as far as I can tell. They are a 1 win team. They lost their head coach. They have a brand new OC who is now their HC as well. They have gotten booed by their home fans. They get ripped by the media. Any one of these negative things could have broken the team but instead, for the most part, we see them come out to play hard and try and compete. You don't see in-fighting along the sideline. We have had no reports of any off the field troubles. Through it all this group has amazingly stayed as a team and I think you can only attribute that to the players and leaders on the team.

When you look at the big picture is playing Gray or Alipate worth the risk of fracturing the team's psyche?

 

[Silvio]

+1
If you replace Weber, even in those fourth quarters, you can create a QB controversy and that will fracture what has to be an already fragile locker room.

These kids have been unbelievably resilient as far as I can tell. They are a 1 win team. They lost their head coach. They have a brand new OC who is now their HC as well. They have gotten booed by their home fans. They get ripped by the media. Any one of these negative things could have broken the team but instead, for the most part, we see them come out to play hard and try and compete. You don't see in-fighting along the sideline. We have had no reports of any off the field troubles. Through it all this group has amazingly stayed as a team and I think you can only attribute that to the players and leaders on the team.

When you look at the big picture is playing Gray or Alipate worth the risk of fracturing the team's psyche?

Unless it leads to a spark that creates a win, but you don't know until you take the chance.

 

[mplsbadger]

I think it's because they can't start gray because he hasn't practiced at qb all year and they won't start alipate because it's not fair to gray who is taking one for the team by moving to WR.

Three games left and they would have started weber against Iowa anyway because it is senior day. Ride it out.

 

[Doc1001]

I agree

that I think Horton is being selfish for further jobs. If Gray isnt getting enough QB snaps then get them. Who cares about wide receiver right now. They are going nowere the way it is. Prepare for next year as any coach with common sense would do. He had three touches last week I believe. Whats so great with him at wide receiver.

 

[Goldmember]

that I think Horton is being selfish for further jobs.

Save face. Tell us you're kidding now, please.

 

[GopherGack]

Unless it leads to a spark that creates a win, but you don't know until you take the chance.

So what? Now you have a 2 win team with a QB controversy and a very good chance (IMO of course) of a locker room/off the field problem. Horton above all else needs this team to stay together and keep acting like a team. Worse case scenario for him is academic problems, off the field incidents and arrests, fights in the locker room or sidelines and players just up and quitting.

Winning isn't and (again IMO) shouldn't be the #1 priority. There is almost no difference between 1-11 and 2-10. What is important is holding the team together so that our next coach can walk right in hand the kids the playbook and start preparing the team to play. I DON'T want to see the new coach have to be scrambling to find kids to play and trying to repair the team because, for the sake of 1 more win, we shattered the locker room or kids got themselves in academic trouble or in trouble with the law etc...

No, what I want to see happen is Horton to go with the status quo and keep this team together so he can hand it to the next HC and say, "Here you go Coach ______, they are a great group of kids, they're almost all staying and in great academic shape. They're ready and excited to play for you."

 

[Silvio]

So what? Now you have a 2 win team with a QB controversy and a very good chance (IMO of course) of a locker room/off the field problem. Horton above all else needs this team to stay together and keep acting like a team. Worse case scenario for him is academic problems, off the field incidents and arrests, fights in the locker room or sidelines and players just up and quitting.

Winning isn't and (again IMO) shouldn't be the #1 priority. There is almost no difference between 1-11 and 2-10. What is important is holding the team together so that our next coach can walk right in hand the kids the playbook and start preparing the team to play. I DON'T want to see the new coach have to be scrambling to find kids to play and trying to repair the team because, for the sake of 1 more win, we shattered the locker room or kids got themselves in academic trouble or in trouble with the law etc...

No, what I want to see happen is Horton to go with the status quo and keep this team together so he can hand it to the next HC and say, "Here you go Coach ______, they are a great group of kids, they're almost all staying and in great academic shape. They're ready and excited to play for you."

Once the season ends you have no QB Controversy, I bet you almost every player on the team would trade QB's if it got them a W. Wouldn't you rather say " here you go coach the team had a terrible year, but I put in who appears to be your QB for next year and the team got an upset win (say against Ill.). The win has lifted team spirits." But then you probably think that the incoming and outgoing coaches will actually sit down and have a chit-chat about academic progress rates. If most of the players are staying it won't because they can sing Kumbaya in harmony, it will be that they either like the U or like the new coach. The first thing a new coach will do is break all their old habits.

 

[GopherGack]

Once the season ends you have no QB Controversy, I bet you almost every player on the team would trade QB's if it got them a W.

I bet you a large portion of the team wouldn't. So I guess that is where our difference of opinions lie.

 

[AhliBobwa]

This has me totally confused. I accept Weber gives them the best chance to win but why not get someone in when the game is over (ie 4th quarter vs tOSU). Part of this is Weber's fault- he is too tough. I could not believe it when he got rocked, fumbled, and still managed to get up to chase the ball carrier to the end zone. He is one tough s.o.b, a break might do him wonders.

Here is a summary of some of the reasons they don't play anyone else:

Horton is coaching for himself
This argument gets trotted out a lot but college coaches are not stupid (notable exception: Gopher coaches) and will look into a hire beyond their statistics. Additionally, if Gopher QB flounders next year, media will harp on the fact they did not prepare Gray/Alipate during a lost 1-11 season.

No one is able/prepared to play
This is Horton's stated reason. If true, then all of the offensive coaches should be fired. How do you not have a QB ready to play? You have two back-ups who have two years in the program. EVERY other team has back-ups who can play (Purdue's third string beat us). Horrible, horrible excuse. Additionally, Weber is playing in front of an experienced line. Next year will see major change to this unit and the new qb will be running for his life, now is the time to get some reps. It is a testament to Gray that he appears to be a team guy and accepts this situation.

They are trying to get Weber records
Kind of makes sense, but why? It is too bad but Weber's legacy will be as the QB of two 1-11 teams and the creation of a new term, "Weber Time", to take the place of the over-used "garbage time".

Anyone care to add to the list or explain why my reasoning is flawed?

Personally, given the way the season is going, I would play all three in the next two games, and if Gray/Alipate struggle, go back to only Weber against Iowa. Season is over, let's build for next year.

It is truly baffling that Gray hasn't gotten any reps at QB.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I bet you a large portion of the team wouldn't. So I guess that is where our difference of opinions lie.

You think there are a large portion of our players who wouldn't want someone else to start if it meant that we would win? Seriously?

I think there is a large portion of our team that thinks Weber gives them their best chance to win, but you think they would want him to start even if it made us a worse team? I don't see that.

 

[Rosemountian]

Gray IS playing.
Alipate isn't playing because he is terrible.

Why Gray is playing WR instead of QB is another question entirely.

 

[GopherGack]

You think there are a large portion of our players who wouldn't want someone else to start if it meant that we would win? Seriously?

I think there is a large portion of our team that thinks Weber gives them their best chance to win, but you think they would want him to start even if it made us a worse team? I don't see that.

I'm not sure...loyalty is a very strong force. That said his whole question was misleading. He assumed that if Gray started it WOULD be a win. I find that highly unlikely unless he is a wonder boy on both sides of the ball. So the REAL question in my mind is:

Is it worth possible splitting the locker room etc... by starting Gray on the remote chance he could spark us to a 2-10 year?

To that I answer an emphatic hell no.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I'm not sure...loyalty is a very strong force. That said his whole question was misleading. He assumed that if Gray started it WOULD be a win. I find that highly unlikely unless he is a wonder boy on both sides of the ball. So the REAL question in my mind is:

Is it worth possible splitting the locker room etc... by starting Gray on the remote chance he could spark us to a 2-10 year?

To that I answer an emphatic hell no.

I can't believe that, i'm sorry. If we really have a team that would rather lose games with Weber than win games with Gray, that is an enormous problem. If that is the case they wouldn't be demonstrating loyalty, they'd be demonstrating nepotism. Gray is part of the team as well. If another player on the team gives them a better chance of winning football games, the players should be loyal to eachother (all of them, not just Weber) and want Gray to be playing.

 

[Goldmember]

How many times do you have to be told?

By continuing to ask the question you are basically demanding that the staff bad-mouth the potential backups. The alternatives to Weber would be embarrassing to everyone involved. Is that what you want to hear?

Honest to God, some people are just not happy until they are watching the biggest, nastiest flaming train-wreck that they have the resources to create.

 

[littlebigboy]

Next yr. don't count out Tom Parrish. He is redshirting this yr. and had some good practices this fall. Young and made some mistakes, but can throw the ball.

 

[GopherGack]

If we really have a team that would rather lose games with Weber than win games with Gray, that is an enormous problem. If that is the case...

But that's not the case is it? The real question is: would they rather lose games with their (apparent) leader at the helm or lose games with their sophmore backup? Quit trying to frame this as a "Lose vs. Win" scenario when we both know it's a "Lose vs. Lose" scenario.

 

[thailleagle]

It's all politics...Weber is a nice kid that Brewster fell in love with & was planning on using his NFL connections to help get Weber drafted or at least signed. He needed something to stand out about him so approaching being the statistically best QB in MN History & being able to say this kid is the 3rd best QB to ever play in the Big Ten because he'll have some 10,000+ yards is an *EASY* selling point for the best car salesman there is, Tim Brewster...

You know if Brewster can trick Maturi into believing he had some 140 wins in whatever he sold to him then he can easily sell the idea of having coached the best statistically best QB in MN History & can do it at whatever school he lands or his next gig wherever it is. Adam is simply out there for politics at this point & anyone who doesn't see that & really believes the 3rd best dual-threat QB coming out of high school is that bad then I really for sorry for you...

 

[Goldentimeofday]

I don't get it either. So it's embarrassing to play either backup this year, but nest season they will magically NOT be embarrassing. It's going to be worse if we play one of them a few series or reps in a blow out? Gray played last year, and while not good, no one has given up on him based on that performance. Honestly, there will be no other time in his career for him to play where people would have lower expectations of him then these last few games in garbage time.

 

[MNRideorDieChick]

Team psyche is shot to hell. The kids are just so embarassed already that they are trying not to make things worse. I expect someone to snap this weekend.

 

[RedPoo]

I don't get it either. So it's embarrassing to play either backup this year, but nest season they will magically NOT be embarrassing. It's going to be worse if we play one of them a few series or reps in a blow out? Gray played last year, and while not good, no one has given up on him based on that performance. Honestly, there will be no other time in his career for him to play where people would have lower expectations of him then these last few games in garbage time.

I think part of the argument people are trying to make (and correct me if I'm wrong here) is that getting someone (like Gray) reps at QB won't have any benefit if he's not prepared and is just going to get absolutely destroyed/embarassed. More likely, it will negatively affect both his confidence and the confidence of the team and fans going into next season (again, not saying this is what I believe is the case, just making the argument).

Everyone here keeps saying Alipate is horrible, and I don't know where they're getting that information, but the fact that Weber is getting all of the snaps does suggest that the QB next year will either be Gray (who isn't playing OB now because he hasn't taken a snap at the position since last season) or Parrish (who isn't playing now to save eligibility).

 

[Great Plains Gopher]

The whole thing is stupid and could snowball into something ugly by the time we play Iowa; of course, Gray should get some reps - at the end of games, at least. I've felt since last year that he's a better athlete than Weber and should play more, but a total boycott of him so Weber can pads his stats, is just stupid, if that is what is happening (maybe it isn't). If he'd played a bit here and there at the end of games, this issue would have gone away.

 

[Khaliq]

Truly these are desperate times. If someone does not right this ship with expediency I fear our bowl hopes may be lost.

 

[HEAD]

The Season is Over!

Why not look at future. Horton has no future after his 0 for what is it, 18 now? The coaches need and team need to think to the future. Even if they think they need to keep Gray at WR ( and they all think he should be the starter), why not get Alipate some snaps now. This is ridiculous. Even just seeing other players in the game would keep fans in the stands and in their seats at home pr watching on the tube.

The Vikings are nothing to cheer for now and at least getting some experience for others might get some interest back on the Gophers. I am ashamed that the BANK is not full in the second season. I have been a season ticket holder for 12 years and have been waiting and waiting for this outdoor experience. I can't believe that I can't even beg someone to come to a game on ME! I don't want to wait until next year to start the process of the next GOPHER TERRITORY!

Why not give the next coach something to look at?

As everyone has pointed out alread, if there is not enogh film on Weber already, what will he gain by these next few games??....

Yes, he neds to start against Iowa as it is Senior day and so do ALL the other seniors, but once it is lopsided get some game time experience for the rest of time as I am sure IOWA will be trying to make a statement. Does it really matter at that point...

The HEAD

 

[Zeppelin Gopher]

3. Adam Weber is the closest thing this team has to a leader. And despite how you feel about his play, he has been a superhero as a team leader. This guy got absolutely hosed and he has been unwaveringly positive. Pulling him (with all his deserved popularity among his teammates), only to unveil a horrifying look at the future would undermine his leadership and crush the will of this very young team.

Horrifying look at the future??? Gray's series in garbage time against the Bucks last season was anything but "horrifying"!!! Stop attempting to defend this crap, it makes no sense whatsoever

 

[thailleagle]

Horrifying look at the future??? Gray's series in garbage time against the Bucks last season was anything but "horrifying"!!! Stop attempting to defend this crap, it makes no sense whatsoever

People act like they don't remember that drive...