Why Talent/Recruiting Rankings Matter

[MplsGopher]

You type a lot of words on this site.

You should rethink that strategy.

Let us know if/when you have something to contribute.

 

[Unregistered User]

Let us know if/when you have something to contribute.

Ironic

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Good point -- Florida, Florida St, Georgia, Alabama, Auburn .... none of those have great coaching staffs, top notch facilities, or good teammates.

School, yeah the U is better (except for Florida, those are on fairly equal playing fields), but for most recruits that's not the reason. Unless they're hoping to participate in cutting-edge biomedical research as undergrads, then I doubt that was a major factor.

Mnpls - I appreciate your point. You just have to understand that minority opinions are not wanted on this board. There is only one view, and that is the majority view. if you do not agree with the majority, you are wrong and need to be shunned and ridiculed. Because the majority is always right.

 

[MplsGopher]

Ironic

Actually that wasn't irony. You should look up the definition of irony.

 

[MplsGopher]

Mnpls - I appreciate your point. You just have to understand that minority opinions are not wanted on this board. There is only one view, and that is the majority view. if you do not agree with the majority, you are wrong and need to be shunned and ridiculed. Because the majority is always right.

I really have no problem with people being excited about these verbals. Some people really love the recruiting process and following every twist and turn. My hat's off to them, and don't have any reason to rain on their parade or piss in their cherrios.

But also think it perfectly valid to temper expectations and critically comment.

 

[Unregistered User]

Actually that wasn't irony. You should look up the definition of irony.

I'm well acquainted with the word.

It is ironic that you comment "Let us know if/when you have something to contribute" when your speculation is rife with utter bull****, thus contributing nothing.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Good point -- Florida, Florida St, Georgia, Alabama, Auburn .... none of those have great coaching staffs, top notch facilities, or good teammates.

School, yeah the U is better (except for Florida, those are on fairly equal playing fields), but for most recruits that's not the reason. Unless they're hoping to participate in cutting-edge biomedical research as undergrads, then I doubt that was a major factor.

So those schools always end up with highly ranked players because those coaches are 'promising them the world'? Players just show up there and are given a starting job?

 

[MplsGopher]

I'm well acquainted with the word.

It is ironic that you comment "Let us know if/when you have something to contribute" when your speculation is rife with utter bull****, thus contributing nothing.

Irony is much more specific. It's when you use language that commonly is used to signify something very different.

Mine is just an example of plain ol' sarcasm, which is much less specific.

 

[Old Cardinal]

If you listen P.J without preconceived notions of how you want YOUR football coach to act and talk, his message is very consistent. He is offering way more than playing time. And as many of us baby boomers can't stand his mantra's, recruits and their parents want to be part of his culture: academically, athletically, socially and spiritually. Thankfully they have open minds.

Rip away!

 

[MplsGopher]

So those schools always end up with highly ranked players because those coaches are 'promising them the world'? Players just show up there and are given a starting job?

I'm not making any claims about what those schools are or are not promising recruits.

I'm making the point that they shouldn't need to make the same level of promises to recruits like Dunlap/Faalele because they're much more well known as being great football programs, they're much closer, and the weather in the winter and local culture isn't such a step change from where they went to high school/grew up.

And so, to overcome those inherent disadvantages that Minnesota faces in trying to lure Florida high school players here, I'm suggesting Fleck might have to promise more.


I don't think it's really that difficult to grasp. So if you're playing devil's advocate, fine, but you should say that.

 

[MplsGopher]

If you listen P.J without preconceived notions of how you want YOUR football coach to act and talk, his message is very consistent. He is offering way more than playing time. And as many of us baby boomers can't stand his mantra's, recruits and their parents want to be part of his culture: academically, athletically, socially and spiritually. Thankfully they have open minds.

Rip away!

Perfectly valid point.

I think that sales pitch can work this recruiting season and maybe next. But like I said, if he does not demonstrate that such a "culture" produces wins at Minn ... then the pitch starts to lose effectiveness.


Florida high school kids WILL come to Minneapolis ... if Fleck can prove his way of doing things can lead to wins, championships, and NFL draft picks. If he can do that, if he can pull it off, then absolutely.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

I'm not making any claims about what those schools are or are not promising recruits.

I'm making the point that they shouldn't need to make the same level of promises to recruits like Dunlap/Faalele because they're much more well known as being great football programs, they're much closer, and the weather in the winter and local culture isn't such a step change from where they went to high school/grew up.

And so, to overcome those inherent disadvantages that Minnesota faces in trying to lure Florida high school players here, I'm suggesting Fleck might have to promise more.


I don't think it's really that difficult to grasp. So if you're playing devil's advocate, fine, but you should say that.

Who's playing devil's advocate? You're the one suggesting these recruits think they are already ready for the NFL, or think they won't have to work has hard when they get here. That's completely false.

These aren't the first Florida kids to come to Minnesota and won't be the last. You're also suggesting Fleck won't be able to land higher rated recruits in a few years because he won't have playing time to sell. Many highly rated recruits go to schools across the country and redshirt or don't play right away.

Do I think Fleck has to sell harder than some other coaches? Of course. But most of your reasonings don't make any sense.

 

[MplsGopher]

Who's playing devil's advocate? You're the one suggesting these recruits think they are already ready for the NFL, or think they won't have to work has hard when they get here. That's completely false.

I never made any such claims, and this is a pivot from what we were just discussing. But I'm also happy to discuss this as a side issue, if you want.

These aren't the first Florida kids to come to Minnesota and won't be the last.

But, as has been reported with glee on GH, quite obviously these aren't just any old Florida kids. If Fleck had brought in two star kids from Florida, then I wouldn't have made the post in the first place.

So you know that doesn't hold water.

You're also suggesting Fleck won't be able to land higher rated recruits in a few years because he won't have playing time to sell. Many highly rated recruits go to schools across the country and redshirt or don't play right away.

Yes ... at Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, Florida, Florida St.

I don't think you're incapable of seeing the difference between those and where Minnesota is at, right now. Otherwise, I will have to conclude that you're being obtuse ...

Do I think Fleck has to sell harder than some other coaches? Of course. But most of your reasonings don't make any sense.

Correct, that's exactly what I just said. He has a much harder sell job.

So what ... you think he has a magic spell?? How do you land it when your sell job is harder? There's only so many things you can do ...

 

[PMWinSTP]

Any way you want to slice it this class is a big jump up from previous classes. It's very likely that everyone currently committed to the Gophers will sign on December 20th. This class is unlikely to drop below 35th nationally and 1st in the West. The only real threat is Nebraska, but it's late in the game and they have a long ways to go.

If you want to compare it to 2016, that class was helped by highly ranked in-state players. 8 of the top 10 highest ranked players were from MN or just recently left MN (Green). This year 9 of the top 10 are not from MN. They are from talent rich areas, GA - 3, FL - 2, OH - 2, CA - 1, IL - 1.

That's the biggest difference to me, Fleck has gone into these areas and won recruiting battles against programs that have been better than the Gophers. This class is a nice start, but he'll have to do this several years in a row before it makes a big difference on the field.

Wisc and Iowa are threats as well. They both are close enough with essentially the same AVG recruit rating, and have enough open spots to pass Gophers...especially Iowa. We've just seen how a few good recruits can change the rankings in a hurry.

I agree it is a nice start but unless Fleck wins at a higher level very soon, this could be the high water mark.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

I never made any such claims, and this is a pivot from what we were just discussing. But I'm also happy to discuss this as a side issue, if you want.

I hope that he is willing to admit that he isn't ready for the NFL right now

I mean that, to my thinking, the only real way you can get kids to come up here from southern hotbeds is basically to promise them the world. "You're going to help us win a national championship. You're going to play four years and start at least three years. You're going to be a draft pick." Etc.

You keep making the assumptions that the only thing these recruits care about is playing right away and making the NFL, but for most that's not the case.

As another poster mentioned, Fleck has been consistent in his message that if people buy in and work hard, they will accomplish things that haven't been done here before. Recruits definitely buy into that message, along with everything else Minnesota now has to offer. He's not just making them empty promises as you suggest.

 

[caliGopher]

Any way you want to slice it this class is a big jump up from previous classes. It's very likely that everyone currently committed to the Gophers will sign on December 20th. This class is unlikely to drop below 35th nationally and 1st in the West. The only real threat is Nebraska, but it's late in the game and they have a long ways to go.

If you want to compare it to 2016, that class was helped by highly ranked in-state players. 8 of the top 10 highest ranked players were from MN or just recently left MN (Green). This year 9 of the top 10 are not from MN. They are from talent rich areas, GA - 3, FL - 2, OH - 2, CA - 1, IL - 1.

That's the biggest difference to me, Fleck has gone into these areas and won recruiting battles against programs that have been better than the Gophers. This class is a nice start, but he'll have to do this several years in a row before it makes a big difference on the field.

Fair. And my post was with incomplete data. The pick-ups this weekend are nice and I don't disagree this will be one of our better classes in forever, but the question still remains will it be enough. It can be both the best class we've had in forever and still not enough.

 

[caliGopher]

No one said Nebraska's players don't count, just comparing them to a team with 20 more players is stupid. If you want to compare the Gophers top commits to other teams top commits that is fair but comparing their averages is more misleading than the team ranking. For example, Minnesota's top 14 players are rated higher than Iowa's 14 players total committed but Iowa has a higher average due to Minnesota having 11 more players. How can anyone say Iowa's class is better than Minnesota's based off that? Unless you have an agenda, of couse.

Since you struggle with anyone who doesn't believe that PJ Fleck is the second coming of Christ, I know you think I have an agenda against him. I don't. I don't think the coaching this year was any good and I'm not convinced he'll recruit us to a big ten title, but he is the best recruiter we've had in a while, so we'll take that and see where it gets us.

Edit: and by a while, I mean at least since Holtz, if not before that.

 

[Dano564]

Since you struggle with anyone who doesn't believe that PJ Fleck is the second coming of Christ, I know you think I have an agenda against him. I don't. I don't think the coaching this year was any good and I'm not convinced he'll recruit us to a big ten title, but he is the best recruiter we've had in a while, so we'll take that and see where it gets us.

Edit: and by a while, I mean at least since Holtz, if not before that.

Sorry you feel he's such a bad coach.

 

[Dano564]

Since you struggle with anyone who doesn't believe that PJ Fleck is the second coming of Christ, I know you think I have an agenda against him. I don't. I don't think the coaching this year was any good and I'm not convinced he'll recruit us to a big ten title, but he is the best recruiter we've had in a while, so we'll take that and see where it gets us.

Edit: and by a while, I mean at least since Holtz, if not before that.

Wow.

Really going out on a limb on that one.

I don't think PJ will discover the cure for cancer, get a third deck built on TCF, or win a national title either.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Wow.

Really going out on a limb on that one.

I don't think PJ will discover the cure for cancer, get a third deck built on TCF, or win a national title either.

Give me a "T"... give me an "R"... give me an "O"...

 

[Spoofin]

Sorry you feel he's such a bad coach.

I feel he did a fairly poor job coaching this year as well.

On the other hand, he seems to be rocking with recruiting so if he can learn from his coaching mistakes this year we could be sitting in a very good spot (for us) in the future.


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[GopherWeatherGuy]

Wisc and Iowa are threats as well. They both are close enough with essentially the same AVG recruit rating, and have enough open spots to pass Gophers...especially Iowa. We've just seen how a few good recruits can change the rankings in a hurry.

I agree it is a nice start but unless Fleck wins at a higher level very soon, this could be the high water mark.

I don't see either Wisconsin or Iowa as a threat to pass us. Both had small SR classes and appear to be near capacity. Nebraska also just lost their highest rated recruit today.

I don't think this will be the high water mark at all. I think Fleck will at least be consistently in the 30s nationally. Even though it will be smaller, next year's class has the potential to be better with a number of highly rated recruits.

 

[jrock]

I feel he did a fairly poor job coaching this year as well.

On the other hand, he seems to be rocking with recruiting so if he can learn from his coaching mistakes this year we could be sitting in a very good spot (for us) in the future.


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+1

 

[PMWinSTP]

I don't see either Wisconsin or Iowa as a threat to pass us. Both had small SR classes and appear to be near capacity. Nebraska also just lost their highest rated recruit today.

I don't think this will be the high water mark at all. I think Fleck will at least be consistently in the 30s nationally. Even though it will be smaller, next year's class has the potential to be better with a number of highly rated recruits.

If he ain't winning, he ain't recruiting at that level. Period. Just win Fleck.

 

[jrock]

If he ain't winning, he ain't recruiting at that level. Period. Just win Fleck.

Yup. Bottom line.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

If he ain't winning, he ain't recruiting at that level. Period. Just win Fleck.

Winning will make very little difference in recruiting until a few more years down the road. If he's not winning then, then it'll matter because he'll be fired.

 

[jrock]

Winning will make very little difference in recruiting until a few more years down the road. If he's not winning then, then it'll matter because he'll be fired.

I disagree. Winning matters. We need to win next year.

 

[Spoofin]

I don't see either Wisconsin or Iowa as a threat to pass us. Both had small SR classes and appear to be near capacity. Nebraska also just lost their highest rated recruit today.

I don't think this will be the high water mark at all. I think Fleck will at least be consistently in the 30s nationally. Even though it will be smaller, <b>next year's class has the potential to be better with a number of highly rated recruits.</b>

Slow Down GWG. At this point every team in the Country could say that. Let us get our first commit at least before we sing the praises of our '19 Class.


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[GopherWeatherGuy]

Slow Down GWG. At this point every team in the Country could say that. Let us get our first commit at least before we sing the praises of our '19 Class.


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Sure, which is why I used the word potential. But they have a couple of highly ranked in state OL, interest from Bachmeier, and some other highly ranked recruits which is why I'm optimistic.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

The playing time pitch always comes up as a topic in these discussions. I wonder if it really works.

There are any number of of Gopher level schools out there.... hard to imagine that's much of a difference maker for our pitch.

Also in the meantime the blue blood schools absolutely stack up the 4* guys. And the croots go there happily regardless of possible playing time.