Why not be more skeptical of a newly hired head football coach here at Minnesota and more supportive of the existing coach?

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60's Guy said:
There's a lot of sides to being good at this football thing. I think we'd all say Dabo is/was a pretty good football coach. People are screaming at him because he won't adapt to using the portal and NIL on principle. The result is....he's now pretty mediocre.

Until the Gophers build up the cooperative or get a deep pockets booster or two we are not judging things on a level playing field.

Maybe a new AD could change our money situation? Najarian was a hot name for a minute.
He was touted as someone who could raise money...that's what we need the most. Somebody who can get us higher on the NIL ladder.
Then we can complain about the coach if he doesn't win. PJ isn't winning as often as we would like but there are a lot of positives to how he runs the program off the
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60's Guy said:
There's a lot of sides to being good at this football thing. I think we'd all say Dabo is/was a pretty good football coach. People are screaming at him because he won't adapt to using the portal and NIL on principle. The result is....he's now pretty mediocre.

Until the Gophers build up the cooperative or get a deep pockets booster or two we are not judging things on a level playing field.

Maybe a new AD could change our money situation? Najarian was a hot name for a minute.
He was touted as someone who could raise money...that's what we need the most. Somebody who can get us higher on the NIL ladder.
Then we can complain about the coach if he doesn't win. PJ isn't winning as often as we would like but there are a lot of positives to how he runs the program off the field.
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PJ has. great contract. He doesn’t consult with message board posters.
 
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60's Guy said:
PJ isn't winning as often as we would like but there are a lot of positives to how he runs the program off the field.
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Woo hoo. That's great. I know most of us love just getting up on Saturdays to watch a group of fine young, admirable student athletes competing, even if the coach is holding them back and seems to be an anchor to success.

Give me thugs and future scandals/sanctions in exchange for advancing in the playoffs any day of the week.

(I know this school won't actually go that route, but one can hope and then if we land somewhere in the middle....)
 

Can Minnesota rise to the top and be national champions again? Of course!

Will it happen?? It is highly, highly unlikely.

The more likely scenario is that Minnesota will remain a third-tier football program in the Big Ten. We will only do well when we have coaches like Fleck and Kill that can take the passed-over rejects that still have some fire and turn them into better players.

Even if we had a great coach, we neither have a fan base nor the boosters to compete with the big programs. Especially with NIL, we are falling further and further behind.

I hate to be that guy, but I'll just be happy to have a quality coach running our program who does right by the community and his players. Yes, Fleck could be better. However, much like recruiting players we are never going to have a 5-star coach. We will likely never have a 4-star coach. We will have 2- and 3-star coaches that sometimes excel.

What Fleck really needs is an innovative signal caller on offense who is allowed to call the game with little input from the HC.
 


Arminius said:
After 8 seemingly solid just-keep-us-relevant season by Fleck, we are itching to move to the next level, which, for most Gopher fans would be 8-10 wins year in and year out.

If PJ gives us some "backyard offense" in 2024 I think we go 6-6. If not, I should have bet the under...
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Easier said than done. I’ll take someone that can keep us relevant 6-8 wins a year with a breakthrough season every 5 years or so.
 


Arminius said:
You might want to look in the mirror Walrus, your politics are showing.

Until today, I have never heard anyone call him Lou Hoax...one of the all-time great and legendary coaches in CF history.

Mike Leach was a Trump supporter too and at his death every coach lauded him for his impact on the game and his decency as a human being. Nobody brought up his politics. Maybe you can refer to him in a post and call him Mike Leech to be funny.

Lou Hoax...what a sad life you must live.
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Easy killer.

Not sure where you were in fandom at the time but Holtz came to Minnesota and sold everyone that this was where he wanted to be, all the while angling fornthe Notre Dame job.

Lou Hoax came out of his abrupt departure when he'd lifted the team significantly and then quickly jilted the good people of Minnesota.

It had nothing to do with politics in the mid 80's and doesn't now.

Arkansas fired Holtz because of his politics. Minnesotans hate him for being a carpet bagger who left in the night with the hopes and dreams of football relevance.
 

Frankly, I know there is a zero percent chance that Fleck will be fired this season regardless of what happens due to a weak AD and the lack of buy-out money. That said, no coach goes into the season on the final year of his deal – it is always a rolling extension a few years out. This ensure the buy-out cost excuse is ALWAYS the excuse on the table and will ensure Fleck will coach here until he goes out on his own terms.

While I don’t like the rah-rah sloganeering of Fleck, I cannot deny the success he has had here and prior jobs. Where I am frustrated is it seems he has resigned himself to ‘good enough’ and I don’t think he is motivated at this point. I think he realizes now that the goal of using us as a stepping-stone to a job he actually wants is gone. Also, he has multi-generational wealth at this point. So, what is the motivation to continue? I think the carrot has been eliminated so we are left with the stick – which won’t work with him any better than it worked with Mason. Once a coach has settled, you get what you get.

The biggest issue I have is that the B1G will be harder for us to win now than at any point in my 30 years of following the Gophers – and it will only get harder. With Fleck, we know what he have and it is not enough to win the B1G. So, as fans, we can now also choose to settle and look forward to a ceiling on par with Jerry Kill or impotently shout at the sky because nothing is going to change.
 

Since I became a member of this message board a number of years ago, I have said with every head football and basketball head coach hired by the UM that winning big and often will be a huge challenge. And it has. And the same applies to Fleck and Ben.

I was not 100% in with PJ at first......but I learned to gradually warm up once I saw what his culture was really all about. He builds solid young men, prepares them for the future and represents the UM well. Good stuff.

Now back to the winning big and often part. I believe that is PJ's goal as well as his coaches and players. However I am not convinced that is the goal of the UM administration or their vision. That's worthy of another discussion.

Back to Fleck. I was suspect of his game plans and game day decisions as they heavily leaned to the Fleckball conservative side and not conducive to winning big and often. Yet somehow after the zero season, exciting things happened in 2019 and along with a heavy dose of luck and skill amidst the conservative approach, especially preseason, they managed to win 11 games and kick Auburn's butt in the bowl game.

That gave the fans some hope that we can finally compete with the big boys.

But..................................the winning big and often does not seem to mirror Fleckball as more and more Gopher fans have realized.

So what should we expect as Gopher fans? In light of our self perceived challenges of Fleckball, the impact of the portal and NIL, inability to recruit with the big boys, the presence of Oregon and USC, can we expect more? My belief is no. With PJ, my expectation is 5-7 wins and will likely result in a shrinking fan base. And then hope we can somehow have another 2019 when all the stars align.

Keep him? Or fire him. Then hope for someone better in the midst of the same very real obstacles. I'm nearly 80 years young and I have seen a lot.

Good luck!
 

Bayfield Gopher said:
Back to Fleck. I was suspect of his game plans and game day decisions as they heavily leaned to the Fleckball conservative side and not conducive to winning big and often.
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I hate that we have returned to a state where the coaches don't believe that they can compete with OSU and MI and just gameplan to try to not get blown out. As much hate as Mason receives - I always thought he played to win and there was always a chance, albeit slim, that we would be able to beat the top teams. Outside of 2019, I just don't see Fleck having that belief. Take OSU last year - we turtled up from the jump and had no intention to winning. If that does not change, I think we will see huge fan apathy by the end of this season.
 





Bayfield Gopher said:
Since I became a member of this message board a number of years ago, I have said with every head football and basketball head coach hired by the UM that winning big and often will be a huge challenge. And it has. And the same applies to Fleck and Ben.

I was not 100% in with PJ at first......but I learned to gradually warm up once I saw what his culture was really all about. He builds solid young men, prepares them for the future and represents the UM well. Good stuff.

Now back to the winning big and often part. I believe that is PJ's goal as well as his coaches and players. However I am not convinced that is the goal of the UM administration or their vision. That's worthy of another discussion.

Back to Fleck. I was suspect of his game plans and game day decisions as they heavily leaned to the Fleckball conservative side and not conducive to winning big and often. Yet somehow after the zero season, exciting things happened in 2019 and along with a heavy dose of luck and skill amidst the conservative approach, especially preseason, they managed to win 11 games and kick Auburn's butt in the bowl game.

That gave the fans some hope that we can finally compete with the big boys.

But..................................the winning big and often does not seem to mirror Fleckball as more and more Gopher fans have realized.

So what should we expect as Gopher fans? In light of our self perceived challenges of Fleckball, the impact of the portal and NIL, inability to recruit with the big boys, the presence of Oregon and USC, can we expect more? My belief is no. With PJ, my expectation is 5-7 wins and will likely result in a shrinking fan base. And then hope we can somehow have another 2019 when all the stars align.

Keep him? Or fire him. Then hope for someone better in the midst of the same very real obstacles. I'm nearly 80 years young and I have seen a lot.

Good luck!
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I often look to a program like Missouri and say if it can happen there, it can happen at MN. Pinkel had a long run there with a higher level of success for an eight year stretch at the end. ZOU then had the NCAA trouble followed by six years of being a .500 program. Halfway through that six year stretch it got Drinkwitz who had one season as a HC when hired from a G5 team that had recently transitioned from FCS. His recruiting classes have consistently been 10-20 spots higher than Fleck (Zuo #17 for 2025). Ended last year ranked #8 CFP. Currently ranked #9 in AP.

Yes, it remains to be seen how Zou does this year and going forward, but the metrics point to them being more likely a consistent top 25 team than not.
 

Gopher fan all my 57 years. I have never seen the program sustain at this level or put this amount of players into the NFL on a now consistent basis. Ever. Fleck might rub some people the wrong way but all great coaches rub some people the wrong way while dragging a moribund program from the depths. Bill Snyder had plenty of detractors in year 6 too. Now he has a field named after him.
 



PMWinSTP said:
I often look to a program like Missouri and say if it can happen there, it can happen at MN. Pinkel had a long run there with a higher level of success for an eight year stretch at the end. ZOU then had the NCAA trouble followed by six years of being a .500 program. Halfway through that six year stretch it got Drinkwitz who had one season as a HC when hired from a G5 team that had recently transitioned from FCS. His recruiting classes have consistently been 10-20 spots higher than Fleck (Zuo #17 for 2025). Ended last year ranked #8 CFP. Currently ranked #9 in AP.

Yes, it remains to be seen how Zou does this year and going forward, but the metrics point to them being more likely a consistent top 25 team than not.
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Much more fertile recruiting grounds at Missouri.
 

walrus said:
Lou Hoax did more to condemn Gopher football to the wilderness years and life in the damn dome

Could be.
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I lived those years. I would not wish that on anyone. I also lived the Smokey Joe years where the UMN faithful were lead like lemmings out of Memorial Stadium into a building run by people who did not understand collegiate football.

Sports is results driven. The more positive results you get, the better your reputation. Altruism is a pipedream. Adapt or perish is the rule in college sports. Adapting requires trusted experts, not merely "a guy who played here". Trusted experts can come from within, yet that requires a keen, results oriented eye. Keep the politicking out of it. That is how the worst era of Golden Gopher football came about (Moving into the Dome).

All that said, PJ needs to have his teams exemplarily ready for each game to show that he has reached a new level as a coach. That level will keep up with the changes going on in collegiate football. If not, then it is time to find someone who will keep the program up with the times. That will benefit the team, the athletic department and the reputation of the University.
 

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