Why not be more skeptical of a newly hired head football coach here at Minnesota and more supportive of the existing coach?

[walrus]

Over the decades, I have been skeptical of and hard on the new coach an AD has hired as a result of the fans, boosters, et. al growing tired of, being smarter than and starting their own lynch mobs to: “…fire the damn incumbent coach…”

I was skeptical of the Mason hire for the first year, but after that first year I started seeing just what he was doing with less resources than other coaches in the conference.

I defended Mase to the bitter end and detested the Brewster hire every moment he was here

I was never big on the Kill hire, but became very loyal to his defensive coordinator who eventually replaced Kill.

God only knows I was highly skeptical and had a lot of fun rhyming, doing alliterations, and questioning the wisdom of slogan-spouting, fast talking young coaches like Fleck. Over time though, I have come to believe that he is doing as good a job here in Gopherville as ANY coach at Minnesota has done in the past half century plus

Fleck is right there with Muarry in the last ten years Murray had at Minnesota. The fans and administration fired Murray, you will recall.

Fleck is pretty much right there with Cal Stoll and my personal post-Murray favorite: Coach Mason.

Today, I am here to totally defend coach Fleck and to warn the boosters, Sunday Morning second guessers and wanna-be GMs/ADs that they had best be careful. You might get exactly what you are calling for. Unfortunately, U Minn doesn’t have a lot of resource/buy out or nil money to throw away/around.

And: it sure gets boring around here reading all of the pissing and moaning.

Beat Rhode Island Gopher!

But: that’s just my tired, stupid ancient rant. Hate to be too realistic for some here who demand higher standards… but don’t have a clue who is supposed to provide for a program that demands higher standards for their football program. You poor folks certainly do deserve much more in your lives than U Minn
Football can provide. But, you expect someone else to pony up and shell out all the money it would cost to run with the big boys. It’s been that way ever since the last NC and two rose Bowl trips.

 

[forever a gopher]

I really like PJ and want nothing more than him and the Gophers to succeed. I think he runs a clean program that fans can be proud of. What he/the team does in the community is great. I hope he's here in 10 years, as that says he has continued to evolve and has been successful. With that said, "supporting" doesn't mean automatically giving people a pass when they're not doing their job. That's called being complacent or apathetic. You can want people to succeed and support them and still be critical. Those aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[Some Day...Maybe]

Over the decades, I have been skeptical of and hard on the new coach an AD has hired as a result of the fans, boosters, et. al growing tired of, being smarter than and starting their own lynch mobs to: “…fire the damn incumbent coach…”

I was skeptical of the Mason hire for the first year, but after that first year I started seeing just what he was doing with less resources than other coaches in the conference.

I defended Mase to the bitter end and detested the Brewster hire every moment he was here

I was never big on the Kill hire, but became very loyal to his defensive coordinator who eventually replaced Kill.

God only knows I was highly skeptical and had a lot of fun rhyming, doing alliterations, and questioning the wisdom of slogan-spouting, fast talking young coaches like Fleck. Over time though, I have come to believe that he is doing as good a job here in Gopherville as ANY coach here at Minnesota has done in the past half century plus has done!

Fleck isright there with Muarry in the last ten years of his Murray’s at Minnesota. The fans and administration fired Murray, you will recall.

Fleck is pretty much right there with Cal Stoll and my personal post-Murray favorite: Coach Mason.

Today, I am here to totally defend coach Fleck and to warn the boosters, Sunday Morning second guessers and wanna-be GMs/ADs that they had best be careful. You might get exactly what you are calling for.

And: it sure gets boring around here reading all of the pissing and moaning.

Best New Hampshire Gopher!

But: that’s just my tired, stupid ancient rant.

Fleck is nowhere near getting fired, but if this year looks like last and next year looks like this year you can bet it'll be considered. There won't be many fans in the stadium or support anywhere else if that transpires, and that's what an AD can't ignore and can't put up with for too long. As it should be.

 

[walrus]

I really like PJ and want nothing more than him and the Gophers to succeed. I think he runs a clean program that fans can be proud of. What he/the team does in the community is great. I hope he's here in 10 years, as that says he has continued to evolve and has been successful. With that said, "supporting" doesn't mean automatically giving people a pass when they're not doing their job. That's called being complacent or apathetic. You can want people to succeed and support them and still be critical. Those aren't mutually exclusive.

Maybe yes and maybe no.

 

[Gophergrandpa]

I will add that criticism of a coach's game administration is not the same as saying fire the coach. I am all in on Fleck as the head of the Gophers' football program. He brings in good student athletes and turns them into good and responsible citizens. His energy is boundless. The program is loved by so many who pass through it. He has put a lot of players into the NFL. And he wins a lot of games. The last thing in the world I want to see is Fleck fired.

Having said that, I wish, on offense, he would use more than 25% of what the various positions and rules allow. I wish he would try to put teams away when he has momentum, rather than suffocate the game and, in the process, allow what should be a beaten team time and opportunity to rise off the mat and mount a new challenge. PJ allows his defenses to act creatively, disruptively and unpredictably. But his offenses are shackled, rarely taking risks, rarely "stressing" defenses with new sets or unexpected formations and plays. This isn't a "fire the coach" comment, it is stylistic and philosophical.

 

[GopherTheJugular]

...and to warn the boosters, Sunday Morning second guessers and wanna-be GMs/ADs that they had best be careful. You might get exactly what you are calling for.

I don't see this as a scare tactic anymore. We moved on from Mason and ended up with someone worse, but we got rid of that person in less than 4 years and tried again.

To me, that's the way to do it. Don't stick with "status quo" just cuz you're afraid of the "unknown".

 

[gopherguy]

Over the decades, I have been skeptical of and hard on the new coach an AD has hired as a result of the fans, boosters, et. al growing tired of, being smarter than and starting their own lynch mobs to: “…fire the damn incumbent coach…”

I was skeptical of the Mason hire for the first year, but after that first year I started seeing just what he was doing with less resources than other coaches in the conference.

I defended Mase to the bitter end and detested the Brewster hire every moment he was here

I was never big on the Kill hire, but became very loyal to his defensive coordinator who eventually replaced Kill.

God only knows I was highly skeptical and had a lot of fun rhyming, doing alliterations, and questioning the wisdom of slogan-spouting, fast talking young coaches like Fleck. Over time though, I have come to believe that he is doing as good a job here in Gopherville as ANY coach here at Minnesota has done in the past half century plus has done!

Fleck isright there with Muarry in the last ten years of his Murray’s at Minnesota. The fans and administration fired Murray, you will recall.

Fleck is pretty much right there with Cal Stoll and my personal post-Murray favorite: Coach Mason.

Today, I am here to totally defend coach Fleck and to warn the boosters, Sunday Morning second guessers and wanna-be GMs/ADs that they had best be careful. You might get exactly what you are calling for.

And: it sure gets boring around here reading all of the pissing and moaning.

Best New Hampshire Gopher!

But: that’s just my tired, stupid ancient rant.

It's simple. Hire a proven winner and the Minnesota faithful wouldn't have to go through the 'damn incumbent coach' scenario so often. Anyone remember Lou Holtz? He was hired by Rick Bay (athletic director at the time) but MN business leaders played a significant role in guaranteeing financial backing which ultimately help Bay land Holtz. My point is we need an athletic director with cajones to not pussy out with a mid-level hire. We need an athletic director that literally will go balls out to hire a Jim Harbaugh level coach - yes seriously. Until that happens the MN program will continue to be mediocre. PJ is not the answer, sorry Fleck faithful. Not sorry.

 

[walrus]

I really like PJ and want nothing more than him and the Gophers to succeed. I think he runs a clean program that fans can be proud of. What he/the team does in the community is great. I hope he's here in 10 years, as that says he has continued to evolve and has been successful. With that said, "supporting" doesn't mean automatically giving people a pass when they're not doing their job. That's called being complacent or apathetic. You can want people to succeed and support them and still be critical. Those aren't mutually exclusive.

Maybe yes…and… maybe no. At least say what you like about once in a while. Maybe a “praise-complaint-praise sandwich might be nice for a change. Or, what ever you may choose to say is what it is for you.

I don't see this as a scare tactic anymore. We moved on from Mason and ended up with someone worse, but we got rid of that person in less than 4 years and tried again.

To me, that's the way to do it. Don't stick with "status quo" just cuz you're afraid of the "unknown".

What ever you say is what works for you, I suppose.

 

[walrus]

I really like PJ and want nothing more than him and the Gophers to succeed. I think he runs a clean program that fans can be proud of. What he/the team does in the community is great. I hope he's here in 10 years, as that says he has continued to evolve and has been successful. With that said, "supporting" doesn't mean automatically giving people a pass when they're not doing their job. That's called being complacent or apathetic. You can want people to succeed and support them and still be critical. Those aren't mutually exclusive.

Maybe yes…and… maybe no. At least say what you like about once in a while. Maybe a “praise-complaint-praise sandwich might be nice for a change. Or, what ever you may choose to say is what it is for you.

 

[jonnyganas]

I think it boils down to being tired of mediocrity.

To be fair, the program, the culture, the academics...all those aspects have been elevated and improved under Fleck. All of that has now been normalized. We also have grown accustomed to making it to bowl games and winning those bowl games. Kill and Mase weren't doing that consistently, but we are now used to it.

As a fanbase, we now want to see more production on the field, on the scoreboard, in the rankings. We want to be favored in conference games, we want a winning record against ranked opponents. We want to see with our eyes an efficient and explosive offense. We want to see better recruiting rankings, with 4 and 5 star recruits becoming Gophers. With an expanded conference, we want to be the team that people are talking about. We want more than the Quick Lane Bowl...we want a NY6 bowl. With the 12-team CFP, we want to be in the hunt.

I fully support Fleck and I am hopeful he can deliver this. Even though this was only Week 1 and we played a P4 ACC opponent while most of the B1G stuffed their face with cupcakes, I'm only human and want to see the Gophers be better than what they showed against UNC. Listening to GGR and the Pair and the Spare podcasts has helped in talking me off the ledge. I suspect after the month of September, we'll have a better handle on how this season will end up and what kind of team we have.

 

[walrus]

It's simple. Hire a proven winner and the Minnesota faithful wouldn't have to go through the 'damn incumbent coach' scenario so often. Anyone remember Lou Holtz? He was hired by Rick Bay (athletic director at the time) but MN business leaders played a significant role in guaranteeing financial backing which ultimately help Bay land Holtz. My point is we need an athletic director with cajones to not pussy out with a mid-level hire. We need an athletic director that literally will go balls out to hire a Jim Harbaugh level coach - yes seriously. Until that happens the MN program will continue to be mediocre. PJ is not the answer, sorry Fleck faithful. Not sorry.

 

[walrus]

Lou Hoax did more to condemn Gopher football to the wilderness years and life in the damn dome

Fleck is nowhere near getting fired, but if this year looks like last and next year looks like this year you can bet it'll be considered. There won't be many fans in the stadium or support anywhere else if that transpires, and that's what an AD can't ignore and can't put up with for too long. As it should be.

Could be.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Fleck is in his 8th season.
50-35 overall
29-32 in B1G games

take out 2019 and Fleck is 39-33 overall, 22-30 in the B1G.

Yes, I know 2019 counts in the record. my point is - Fleck has had one really good season. and in that really good season, he lost the two big rivalry games to IA and WI, and could not advance to the conference championship game.

other than 2019, his record is very equivalent to Mason and Kill/Claeys. Good, but not great. one really good season out of 8 is not IMHO the coaching equivalent of a "get out of jail free" card.

 

[walrus]

I don't see this as a scare tactic anymore. We moved on from Mason and ended up with someone worse, but we got rid of that person in less than 4 years and tried again.

To me, that's the way to do it. Don't stick with "status quo" just cuz you're afraid of the "unknown".

Where does all the contract buy out money come from? You? Everybody seems to think the big$$$ donors will pick up the tab. I highly doubt that.

 

[walrus]

I don't see this as a scare tactic anymore. We moved on from Mason and ended up with someone worse, but we got rid of that person in less than 4 years and tried again.

To me, that's the way to do it. Don't stick with "status quo" just cuz you're afraid of the "unknown".

Good. Then buy lots of tickets. Fill the stadium. Contribute really BIG $$$ and we can start buying and selling coaches with the big boys…

 

[IronRanger91]

It's simple. Hire a proven winner and the Minnesota faithful wouldn't have to go through the 'damn incumbent coach' scenario so often. Anyone remember Lou Holtz? He was hired by Rick Bay (athletic director at the time) but MN business leaders played a significant role in guaranteeing financial backing which ultimately help Bay land Holtz. My point is we need an athletic director with cajones to not pussy out with a mid-level hire. We need an athletic director that literally will go balls out to hire a Jim Harbaugh level coach - yes seriously. Until that happens the MN program will continue to be mediocre. PJ is not the answer, sorry Fleck faithful. Not sorry.

Paul Giel hired him...actually Harvey Mackay

 

[Pompous Elitist]

I think Coyle agrees with you, Walrus.

I think most of us like PJ. In the words of the great or at least popularly elected Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, John Kennedy, William Jefferson Clinton: “mend it, don’t end it”.

 

[Gopherbro47]

Where does all the contract buy out money come from? You? Everybody seems to think the big$$$ donors will pick up the tab. I highly doubt that.

I think most people that do want Fleck fired understand that it’s definitely not going to happen this year, and likely not even next year due to that very high buyout to fire him at this point.

To be clear I don’t want him fired, but I do want him to adapt and improve. If he continues to show that he can’t change his best, then it is time to consider moving on, but I am willing to give him some time to show if he really can change or not. I don’t really get how wanting the program to improve and get closer to their potential is being unsupportive…

 

[Unregistered User]

Fleck is in his 8th season.
50-35 overall
29-32 in B1G games

take out 2019 and Fleck is 39-33 overall, 22-30 in the B1G.

Yes, I know 2019 counts in the record. my point is - Fleck has had one really good season. and in that really good season, he lost the two big rivalry games to IA and WI, and could not advance to the conference championship game.

other than 2019, his record is very equivalent to Mason and Kill/Claeys. Good, but not great. one really good season out of 8 is not IMHO the coaching equivalent of a "get out of jail free" card.

Cool...now take out 2020...the covid year.

Yeah, it counts, but if you're going to cherry pick, be equal about it.

 

[disco]

Fleck is a good guy. I know it from people who deal with him personally on a semi-regular basis. What he does in the community is without par, and he does it because he cares - not because he has to.

But the completely conservative approach to running an offense is just maddening. Especially since it's the complete opposite of his outgoing, gung ho personality. I'm a PJ supporter, but like many of us, he has to evolve or he's going to be gone.

 

[disco]

It's simple. Hire a proven winner and the Minnesota faithful wouldn't have to go through the 'damn incumbent coach' scenario so often. Anyone remember Lou Holtz? He was hired by Rick Bay (athletic director at the time) but MN business leaders played a significant role in guaranteeing financial backing which ultimately help Bay land Holtz. My point is we need an athletic director with cajones to not pussy out with a mid-level hire. We need an athletic director that literally will go balls out to hire a Jim Harbaugh level coach - yes seriously. Until that happens the MN program will continue to be mediocre. PJ is not the answer, sorry Fleck faithful. Not sorry.

We could have. When Brew got fired, we could have had Mike Leach. It would have been great, and so much fun. But the administration here is too skittish to hire someone like that.

 

[disco]

Maybe yes…and… maybe no. At least say what you like about once in a while. Maybe a “praise-complaint-praise sandwich might be nice for a change. Or, what ever you may choose to say is what it is for you.

What ever you say is what works for you, I suppose.

What exactly is the point of your word salad?

 

[PMWinSTP]

Where does all the contract buy out money come from? You? Everybody seems to think the big$$$ donors will pick up the tab. I highly doubt that.

His current pay ranks in the top 25. Current buyout is $7 milllion, drops to $5 million 1/1/25. His retention bonus is $700,000 this year and goes up $100K each subsequent year through 2029, when it will be an additional $1.2 million.

I think we should be able to expect better results for what he is being paid.

 

[walrus]

I think it boils down to being tired of mediocrity.

To be fair, the program, the culture, the academics...all those aspects have been elevated and improved under Fleck. All of that has now been normalized. We also have grown accustomed to making it to bowl games and winning those bowl games. Kill and Mase weren't doing that consistently, but we are now used to it.

As a fanbase, we now want to see more production on the field, on the scoreboard, in the rankings. We want to be favored in conference games, we want a winning record against ranked opponents. We want to see with our eyes an efficient and explosive offense. We want to see better recruiting rankings, with 4 and 5 star recruits becoming Gophers. With an expanded conference, we want to be the team that people are talking about. We want more than the Quick Lane Bowl...we want a NY6 bowl. With the 12-team CFP, we want to be in the hunt.

I fully support Fleck and I am hopeful he can deliver this. Even though this was only Week 1 and we played a P4 ACC opponent while most of the B1G stuffed their face with cupcakes, I'm only human and want to see the Gophers be better than what they showed against UNC. Listening to GGR and the Pair and the Spare podcasts has helped in talking me off the ledge. I suspect after the month of September, we'll have a better handle on how this season will end up and what kind of team we have.

Great!!!

 

[walrus]

I think it boils down to being tired of mediocrity.

To be fair, the program, the culture, the academics...all those aspects have been elevated and improved under Fleck. All of that has now been normalized. We also have grown accustomed to making it to bowl games and winning those bowl games. Kill and Mase weren't doing that consistently, but we are now used to it.

As a fanbase, we now want to see more production on the field, on the scoreboard, in the rankings. We want to be favored in conference games, we want a winning record against ranked opponents. We want to see with our eyes an efficient and explosive offense. We want to see better recruiting rankings, with 4 and 5 star recruits becoming Gophers. With an expanded conference, we want to be the team that people are talking about. We want more than the Quick Lane Bowl...we want a NY6 bowl. With the 12-team CFP, we want to be in the hunt.

I fully support Fleck and I am hopeful he can deliver this. Even though this was only Week 1 and we played a P4 ACC opponent while most of the B1G stuffed their face with cupcakes, I'm only human and want to see the Gophers be better than what they showed against UNC. Listening to GGR and the Pair and the Spare podcasts has helped in talking me off the ledge. I suspect after the month of September, we'll have a better handle on how this season will end up and what kind of team we have.

Great!!!

What exactly is the point of your word salad?

 

[disco]

So now Walrus/Wren is posting blank responses? Someone should probably alert the nurse.

 

[walrus]

So now Walrus/Wren is posting blank responses? Someone should probably alert the nurse.

Having a bit of an I-phone problem. But, basically I really don’t feel a need to respond to everyone just because some person responds to me. Have a nice day!

 

[howeda7]

"If you can't be good, at least be interesting". Jim Wacker's teams come to mind. They weren't good. But losing 45-41 is more fun to watch than losing 19-17.

This team is in danger of being both bad and boring. That's not a great combo. Hopefully they can correct both.

 

[Lou Brown]

Respect your opinion and I get it. I just dont buy what he's selling. Thing that sucks is I did buy it. Was so excited when he got hired, like nerding out excited. Spent some time with him at a work thing, then my son camped at the U when he was little at the fun camp deal. Players were awesome. Fleck was not great - seemed fake and bigtime. Sorry - two interactions, same feeling - he lost me

Really does bum me out.

 

[Mr. 131]

The team is just a bore. It's a boring product and fan interest is beginning to wane. You can hear it in the stands, on the podcasts, and you'll see it in attendance soon enough. If either of these cupcake games ahead is competitive, it will only bolster those cries. If Iowa beats us becuase we out-conservative them, this all gets wild fast.

I am not in the "fire" camp - but I am in the "seat should be warm" camp.

Your mindset reminds me of the typical Minnesota mindset which is really negative about our prospects to do better. I reject the idea that we can't find at least a comparable replacement, let alone an improvement.

But look, I'm cheering for PJ, as I always have. I've just really been losing faith that he can improve in a rapidly more competitive BIG conference.

Regardless of where we disagree, we can still be friends, and I think it's awesome you've stuck by the program for so long!