Why doesn't Brewster get any love for academics?

[Winnipegopher]

Reading the Souhan article, it amazes me that he thinks he can call the prgram a "mess". The Iowa basketball program is a "mess". The football program is mediocre and is right where it has been for 15 years which is better than where it was the 20 years prior.

The part that really bugs me is that the football team is excelling academically. Exactly how is the program a mess when players are graduating at extremely high rates? Brewster is doing things right academically and that should buy him a ton of goodwill.

If players were not graduating, hacks like Souhan would be all over it.

 

[NCgopher]

Reading the Souhan article, it amazes me that he thinks he can call the prgram a "mess". The Iowa basketball program is a "mess". The football program is mediocre and is right where it has been for 15 years which is better than where it was the 20 years prior.

The part that really bugs me is that the football team is excelling academically. Exactly how is the program a mess when players are graduating at extremely high rates? Brewster is doing things right academically and that should buy him a ton of goodwill.

If players were not graduating, hacks like Souhan would be all over it.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the majority of the kids that have graduated have not been Brewster's recruits. The following are Brewster's recruits and I am not sure how many graduated:
David Pittman
Rex Sharpe
Tremaine Brock (he was kicked out of UM for cheating)
BPT Simmons
Lawernce Simoni
Cedric McKinley
Derrick Onwuachi

Besides if a badger fan comes up to you and starts talking junk are you going to say "Well Brewster graduates his kids at a high rate, who cares how the team does!"

 

[gophmeister]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the majority of the kids that have graduated have not been Brewster's recruits.

Well I guess that means we can blame Mason for the on the field performance, since most of the kids were his recruits.

 

[GoAUpher]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the majority of the kids that have graduated have not been Brewster's recruits. The following are Brewster's recruits and I am not sure how many graduated:
David Pittman
Rex Sharpe
Tremaine Brock (he was kicked out of UM for cheating)
BPT Simmons
Lawernce Simoni
Cedric McKinley
Derrick Onwuachi

Besides if a badger fan comes up to you and starts talking junk are you going to say "Well Brewster graduates his kids at a high rate, who cares how the team does!"

This is nonsense. So what if they were Mason's recruits? Brew's the one who has to discipline them if they don't go to class. And no offense, but unless Mason suddenly recruited a couple groups of Rhodes scholars I seem to recall Mason not giving two craps about whether his guys graduated or not. Leadership from the coaching staff is part of the academic success of players. If there is a sudden drop off in grad rates with Brew's guys then this point makes sense. Otherwise you're just throwing stuff against the wall.

As for the Badger fans comment...what? As fans and supporters of the U we can be proud of the improved academic performance without liking the on field results. In any case, I know that I'm not going to try to respond to the BS I get down here in Madison with "but we improved our APR!". I doubt most Gopher fans would. And even if anyone did, that doesn't change the fact that there has been significant improvement in the team's graduation rate.

 

[RodentRampage]

This is nonsense. So what if they were Mason's recruits? Brew's the one who has to discipline them if they don't go to class. And no offense, but unless Mason suddenly recruited a couple groups of Rhodes scholars I seem to recall Mason not giving to craps about whether his guys graduated or not. Leadership from the coaching staff is part of the academic success of players. If there is a sudden drop off in grad rates with Brew's guys then this point makes sense. Otherwise you're just throwing stuff against the wall.

Agreed, it's irrelevant that they were Mason recruits. The players who were there when the APR was low were also Brewster recruits. Did Mason recruit stupid athletes and then switch to recruiting smart athletes? Unlikely. Graduation rates go up when the coach insists that students go to class and take their education seriously.

If a bad APR merits coverage, then having a good APR should merit coverage as well. Even if you think Brewster is the Devil, give the Devil his due.

 

[Gopher Gold]

The reason it doesnt get reported is because it is a positive aspect of Gopher sports and no Strib writer will write about that.

 

[NCgopher]

Well I guess that means we can blame Mason for the on the field performance, since most of the kids were his recruits.

Hey I am not disagreeing with you at all. I am just pointing out that if he (Brewster) is given the glory of what those recruits gave academically, then he should be blamed for the performance on the field. After all they are the same kids.

This is nonsense. So what if they were Mason's recruits? Brew's the one who has to discipline them if they don't go to class. And no offense, but unless Mason suddenly recruited a couple groups of Rhodes scholars I seem to recall Mason not giving to craps about whether his guys graduated or not. Leadership from the coaching staff is part of the academic success of players. If there is a sudden drop off in grad rates with Brew's guys then this point makes sense. Otherwise you're just throwing stuff against the wall.

As for the Badger fans comment...what? As fans and supporters of the U we can be proud of the improved academic performance without liking the on field results. In any case, I know that I'm not going to try to respond to the BS I get down here in Madison with "but we improved our APR!". I doubt most Gopher fans would. And even if anyone did, that doesn't change the fact that there has been significant improvement in the team's graduation rate.

1) Minnesota spends hundreds of thousands on academic support for all student-athletes. I know of an instance in which there was a JUCO transfer (brewster's recruit) who bought two papers off the internet and tried to turn them in as his own work. The professor gave him a zero the first time and told him if it happened again he would fail the class. Less then 2 weeks later, guess what boy genius did? That's right he turned in another paper that he had purchased. And Brewster knew. And do you know what his discipline was? He got to play in the Spring game. So leave the Brewster disciplines them crap alone. Because no one is buying that. Trust me Brewster has no idea how these kids are doing academically, unless it is going to effect the kid's eligibility.

2) There hasn't been a single Brewster recruiting class that has graduated. His first class comes up next year. And since most of them are gone, their effect will be felt on the 2011-2012 APR numbers. Kids who have graduated (Decker, Campbell, etc) are kids that would have graduated regardless of who the coach is.

3) Of student's who have stayed with the program. Brock didn't graduate, hell he barely made it a year. Not sure if BPT did either (or if he ever will), did Sharpe? Pittman probably did. But seriously. A lot of this graduation rate has to deal with the students involved.

 

[NCgopher]

Agreed, it's irrelevant that they were Mason recruits. The players who were there when the APR was low were also Brewster recruits. Did Mason recruit stupid athletes and then switch to recruiting smart athletes? Unlikely. Graduation rates go up when the coach insists that students go to class and take their education seriously.

If a bad APR merits coverage, then having a good APR should merit coverage as well. Even if you think Brewster is the Devil, give the Devil his due.

APR is figured in a 5 year cohort. And has nothing to do with graduation rates. The NCAA allows schools just to report graduation rates on students who finish their eligibility there.

The reason it doesnt get reported is because it is a positive aspect of Gopher sports and no Strib writer will write about that.

Because it's not impressive. There are a lot of not good football teams who have good APRs/graduation rates. You want this to be headline news? Win some games AND graduate students.

 

[SMU GOPHS FAN]

1) Minnesota spends hundreds of thousands on academic support for all student-athletes. I know of an instance in which there was a JUCO transfer (brewster's recruit) who bought two papers off the internet and tried to turn them in as his own work. The professor gave him a zero the first time and told him if it happened again he would fail the class. Less then 2 weeks later, guess what boy genius did? That's right he turned in another paper that he had purchased. And Brewster knew. And do you know what his discipline was? He got to play in the Spring game. So leave the Brewster disciplines them crap alone. Because no one is buying that. Trust me Brewster has no idea how these kids are doing academically, unless it is going to effect the kid's eligibility.


Those are some serious accusations you are throwing out there.

 

[NCgopher]

1) Minnesota spends hundreds of thousands on academic support for all student-athletes. I know of an instance in which there was a JUCO transfer (brewster's recruit) who bought two papers off the internet and tried to turn them in as his own work. The professor gave him a zero the first time and told him if it happened again he would fail the class. Less then 2 weeks later, guess what boy genius did? That's right he turned in another paper that he had purchased. And Brewster knew. And do you know what his discipline was? He got to play in the Spring game. So leave the Brewster disciplines them crap alone. Because no one is buying that. Trust me Brewster has no idea how these kids are doing academically, unless it is going to effect the kid's eligibility.


Those are some serious accusations you are throwing out there.

Not if its true.

 

[GoAUpher]

1) Minnesota spends hundreds of thousands on academic support for all student-athletes. I know of an instance in which there was a JUCO transfer (brewster's recruit) who bought two papers off the internet and tried to turn them in as his own work. The professor gave him a zero the first time and told him if it happened again he would fail the class. Less then 2 weeks later, guess what boy genius did? That's right he turned in another paper that he had purchased. And Brewster knew. And do you know what his discipline was? He got to play in the Spring game. So leave the Brewster disciplines them crap alone. Because no one is buying that. Trust me Brewster has no idea how these kids are doing academically, unless it is going to effect the kid's eligibility.

So you are using an unsourced anecdote about one player to make your point? I'm not saying you are just making this up as the example seems plausible enough to me. I'm also not such a happy thinker that I believe that there is no way the coaching staff would ever ignore something like this. But again, you're using 1 example to make a broad statement about Brew, his staff, and how they handle academic issues in general. The objective facts are that the APR has made a huge jump while Brew was here. That speaks to the performance across the board and it is also the metric that matters the most since it affects scholarships.

2) There hasn't been a single Brewster recruiting class that has graduated. His first class comes up next year. And since most of them are gone, their effect will be felt on the 2011-2012 APR numbers. Kids who have graduated (Decker, Campbell, etc) are kids that would have graduated regardless of who the coach is.

The 1st bold is true. And if you aren't going to credit Brew for "Mason's guys" then you don't get to tar Brew until his first class gets to graduate. As for the Decker/Campbell comment...once again you are using limited examples to try and prove a wider point. Would all of the guys who graduated under Brew been "automatic" grads regardless of the coach? I don't know (and I doubt you do either). But the the track record on "Mason's guys" would suggest not. Which means you are downplaying the APR improvements due (in part) to grad rates that improved under Brew by pretending that 2 outstanding student athletes automatically represent the whole group.

3) Of student's who have stayed with the program. Brock didn't graduate, hell he barely made it a year. Not sure if BPT did either (or if he ever will), did Sharpe? Pittman probably did. But seriously. A lot of this graduation rate has to deal with the students involved.

This is a legit q. I have no idea how all the Juco's did. And if there is pattern of trouble for Juco's then that's not good. But yet again you are using a single example (Brock) along with some loaded phrasing about some other Juco's (notice you didn't list all the Brew Juco's) to paint a much broader picture. You also say several times that you have no idea how the other Juco's did, but that doesn't seem to stop you from assuming the worst. And the bolded statement again uses the logical fallacy that limited positive examples (Decker/Campbell) mean that "Mason's guys" were all top notch students that would have graduated regardless of Brew while limited negative examples (Brock/unnamed Juco) mean that Brew's guys stink academically. You can't take 2 examples each way and make sweeping statements. That doesn't hold up.

APR is figured in a 5 year cohort. And has nothing to do with graduation rates. The NCAA allows schools just to report graduation rates on students who finish their eligibility there.

APR isn't totally based on grad rates and is separate from the Graduation Success Rate. But graduation is part of it. Each player scored for APR has a max of 2 possible points. 1 for being eligible and 1 for staying with the institution. So if you graduate you gave the U both points.

Because it's not impressive. There are a lot of not good football teams who have good APRs/graduation rates. You want this to be headline news? Win some games AND graduate students.

If its headline news when the APR sucks then it should be equally important that the APR improved by the largest margin in school history. That's what people are complaining about.

 

[GoAUpher]

Not if its true.

Which you haven't proven (though as I noted above, this could easily be true). One q...did the professor fail the player like he said he would? Also, how do you know what Brewster knew? You can see why folks might want a little more info before taking everything you say to the bank.

And again, you are using a single example to claim that Brew doesn't discipline his kids for academic problems.

 

[nc2mn]

Because it's not impressive. There are a lot of not good football teams who have good APRs/graduation rates. You want this to be headline news? Win some games AND graduate students.

I want it to be headline news when there is a substantial improvement in APR, just like it was headline news when they lost scholarships.

Brewster deserves all the credit for the academic performance improvements. He brought the emphasis that Mason couldn't be bothered with, and he got the results.

 

[DarrenTheGreek]

Wow. An anonymous poster with 8 posts to his credit says it's a FACT that Brewster is cheating. I love the internet.

 

[RodentRampage]

Wow. An anonymous poster with 8 posts to his credit says it's a FACT that Brewster is cheating. I love the internet.

He heard it from his best friends third cousin's former math teacher's college roommate, so it has to be true. He claims that Brewster doesn't know how the athletes are doing academically, but DOES know about this rumored incident. If he wasn't paying attention to the players academics, the APR score would not have improves.

But he would have us believe that a player got caught plagarizing a paper, the professor brought it to Brewster's attention, the player again was caught plagarizing a paper, and the professor, instead of doing anything about it, merely brought it to Brewster's attention, who did nothing about it. Smells like a conspiracy theory to me. It involves the professor conspiring with Brewster to cover up plagarism, but not cover it up so much that people don't find out about it. Plagarism is a serious matter for any student, and to cover it up would put the professor's job on the line. Yet somehow the professor risked his job by telling people about it? Doesn't add up.

 

[harrys ghost]

He heard it from his best friends third cousin's former math teacher's college roommate, so it has to be true. He claims that Brewster doesn't know how the athletes are doing academically, but DOES know about this rumored incident. If he wasn't paying attention to the players academics, the APR score would not have improves.

But he would have us believe that a player got caught plagarizing a paper, the professor brought it to Brewster's attention, the player again was caught plagarizing a paper, and the professor, instead of doing anything about it, merely brought it to Brewster's attention, who did nothing about it. Smells like a conspiracy theory to me. It involves the professor conspiring with Brewster to cover up plagarism, but not cover it up so much that people don't find out about it. Plagarism is a serious matter for any student, and to cover it up would put the professor's job on the line. Yet somehow the professor risked his job by telling people about it? Doesn't add up.

Obviously, the professor must have told some people about it.

 

[RodentRampage]

Obviously, the professor must have told some people about it.

I can just imagine the conversation: "Coach, a player plagarized a paper in my class. I'll cover it up for you and not turn him in, but I'm putting my job on the line. Now I will go tell some internet people about it."

Then the player does it again: "Coach, he did it again! He handed in a plagarized paper again, I thought you were going to handle it! Well, I'll cover it up again, and risk my job, but this time you handle it, right after I tell people on the internet all about it."

Presumably, this person knows which player, class and professor is involved. Perhaps he is withholding that information to protect the team, but why make the accusation if he's trying to protect the team. It's rather implausible that some guy from North Carolina (I assume he's from North Carolina) has intimate details about a conspiracy that the professor in question would be very careful not to reveal.

There are real life conspiracies, they are pretty mundane. The problem with conspiracy theories is how many holes they have. This one is designed to show Brewster as corrupt, but it ignored the big hole that the professor would be putting his career in grave risk by conspiring.

 

[GopherGod]

I want it to be headline news when there is a substantial improvement in APR, just like it was headline news when they lost scholarships.

Brewster deserves all the credit for the academic performance improvements. He brought the emphasis that Mason couldn't be bothered with, and he got the results.

There was an article about the APR in the star tribune, just like there was an article everytime a player got arrested, what more do you want.

 

[Brew_recruit]

anyone who still defends mason is too stubborn for their own good.

 

[Winnipegopher]

Argh, I am sorry about bringing it up.

The fact is, academically the football players are doing well. This is good and would make an interesting column, especially since the conventional wisdom was they were taking academic risks in recruiting and also considering there have been off the field incidents which have been widely reported.

 

[howeda7]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the basketball program do better then football? It seemed the 'big news' of the new rankings was how much the football program improved. Kind of like when we went from 1-11 to 7-6, it's only impressive when held against how poor it was before. Nevertheless, it is good news, but let's face it, no football coach ever saved his job for very long simply by raising his players cumulative GPA.

 

[GophersInIowa]

There was an article about the APR in the star tribune, just like there was an article everytime a player got arrested, what more do you want.

Guys like Souhan will write all day about this player getting in trouble or not doing well in the classroom. But when something positive about grades or something comes out, they don't mention a thing.

 

[Brew_recruit]

Guys like Souhan will write all day about this player getting in trouble or not doing well in the classroom. But when something positive about grades or something comes out, they don't mention a thing.

why should someone get praised for doing their job. Every year kids graduate from college without needing to get patted on their back by the media. You treat the players like children and its kind of sad.

 

[Reality Check]

Agreed, it's irrelevant that they were Mason recruits. The players who were there when the APR was low were also Brewster recruits. Did Mason recruit stupid athletes and then switch to recruiting smart athletes? Unlikely. Graduation rates go up when the coach insists that students go to class and take their education seriously.

If a bad APR merits coverage, then having a good APR should merit coverage as well. Even if you think Brewster is the Devil, give the Devil his due.

But Lordy, Lordy, they were sure all mason's dudes when the Dom Jones thing blew up. Wonder why good ole brew didn't just "insist" those guys not comitt rape "and take their education seriously?"

 

[GoAUpher]

But Lordy, Lordy, they were sure all mason's dudes when the Dom Jones thing blew up. Wonder why good ole brew didn't just "insist" those guys not comitt rape "and take their education seriously?"

Oh christ. Are you serious? He kicked them off the team immediately. He handled that the right way.

 

[Too Long in the Wasteland]

Because Brewster wasn't hired to be a math tutor

FWIW, I think its great that the players are excelling academically. But there's a difference between what someone is required to do in their job, and what the key expectation or deliverables are. Brewster is required to run a clean program and have his players meet academic standards. By and large he's done very well in these areas.

But his key expectation is to win football games and field a competitive team. By those metrics he's been mediocre at best. So there's a limit to how much goodwill he's going to get for doing the required portions of his position.

As a researcher, I'm expected to deliver new technologies, patent them, and scale them into manufacturable products. I'm also required to run a lab that is safe and isn't dumping toxic chemicals down the drain. At performance review time, if I haven't delivered on the new technology part, nobody's going to care that I didn't start any fires in 2009. Of course, I could invent cold fusion, but if I blew up a building I still wouldn't get promoted, so it doesn't go both ways

 

[EG#9]

I agree with the point that improved graduation rates and APR should get as much press as poor graduation rates and low APR. Beyond that, major college football is about winning games. If/when Brewster starts winning games, he'll get credit. I thought criticism came too early (year 1 or before he even coached a game in Reusse's case), but criticism is certainly valid now. We're 3 years in without a signature win and (unbelievably) have not even won a rivalry game.

 

[GophersInIowa]

why should someone get praised for doing their job. Every year kids graduate from college without needing to get patted on their back by the media. You treat the players like children and its kind of sad.

I was talking about the coaches and staff that have boosted the academic side significantly over the past few years. They've obviously done a better job with that side of things compared to the past staff.

But even if I was talking about the players, by your statement no one should get praised. Joe Mauer is just doing his job, it's so stupid for him to win an MVP and for people to cheer for him. Hell, even that paramedic who saved one of my sister's best friends after a car accident shouldn't get praised even if she did an awesome job. She was just doing her job.

 

[GopherGod]

I was talking about the coaches and staff that have boosted the academic side significantly over the past few years. They've obviously done a better job with that side of things compared to the past staff.

But even if I was talking about the players, by your statement no one should get praised. Joe Mauer is just doing his job, it's so stupid for him to win an MVP and for people to cheer for him. Hell, even that paramedic who saved one of my sister's best friends after a car accident shouldn't get praised even if she did an awesome job. She was just doing her job.

As stated before the Star Tribune already talked about the improving APR and grades so what is the problem, it received media coverage?

 

[GoAUpher]

As stated before the Star Tribune already talked about the improving APR and grades so what is the problem, it received media coverage?

I think people's biggest gripe is how it got coverage. The STrib and other outlets push the negative narratives because the generate controversy and sell papers/ads. The good stuff might get mentioned, but it doesn't get pushed b/c it does pay out the same way.