Why can't Big Ten teams win the NCAA Tournament?

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I personally enjoy the style of BIG BB. Would not want to see it change for anything.
 


Gopher_In_NYC said:
In Rutgers we trust!!
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It would be very lol worthy if they're the only B10 team to get to the Sweet 16. Unlikely, but would be pretty funny given how much we've all ragged on them joining the conference
 


upnorthkid said:
It would be very lol worthy if they're the only B10 team to get to the Sweet 16. Unlikely, but would be pretty funny given how much we've all ragged on them joining the conference
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Exatctly - everyone rags on NJ, so they're used to it.

But what a job by Steve Pikiell and there is a ton of HS talent in Jersey.
 



Watching the Big Ten In the tournament is like watching the Vikings in the playoffs.
 



Injuries....the Gophers would have probably won it this year if it wasn't for bad luck and injuries....

It might have also helped if they would have been able to keep Jericho Sims, Jalen Suggs, Matthew Hurt, McKinley Wright iV, Nate Reuvers, Brad Davison, Dawson Garcia, Kerwin Walton to name a few. Oh I know....we could never expect to get any of those guys. But it might help if you have a coach with a relationship with the local basketball community.
 


Big ten teams are generally tough whereas other conferences are athletic. I'm not saying toughness isn't needed but super athletes is a whole different animal.

Also losing some ugly upset games early in the week happens way too often.
 

tmvander said:
Big ten teams are generally tough whereas other conferences are athletic. I'm not saying toughness isn't needed but super athletes is a whole different animal.

Also losing some ugly upset games early in the week happens way too often.
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Baylor/Wisconsin was glaring
 



BIG tourney might be part of the issue - Ohio state played four games last weekend and Illinois played three - all in successive days - then to turn around and play with somewhat limited rest - the other thing is that there just are not any cup cake games anymore in this tournament- loads of good players and teams in this thing
 




I blame Wisconsin. Hear me out.

Wisconsin has "captured" most of the B1G (with a few exceptions) in both football and basketball. They have located systems in each of those respective sports that generate consistent very-good-but-not-quite-great teams. The precedent has not gone unnoticed. And it is attractive to AD's, because it: (1) is attainable with reasonable resources and recruiting capabilities; and (2) generates the kind of consistent results that keeps an AD in his job. So, increasingly, we are becoming a conference of Wisconsin acolytes. The result? A great many very-good-but-not-quite-great teams.

I could go on, but it is not exaggeration to say that the Badgers are the most influential program in the B1G and have defined its direction.
 

howeda7 said:
We simply haven't closed the deal. Since MSU won it:

ACC has 8: Duke (2001, 2010, 2015); North Carolina (2005, 2009, 2017); UVA (2019) Maryland (2002). They have 10 total championship game appearances.

Big East has 6: UConn (2004, 2011); Villanova (2016, 2018); Syracuse (2003); Louisville (2013). They have 6 total championship game appearances.

SEC has 3: Florida (2006, 20007), Kentucky (2012). They have 4 total championship game appearances.

Big 12 has 1: Kansas (2008). They have 4 championship game appearances.

AAC has 1: UConn (2014). That is the only appearance.

B1G has 0. They have made the championship 7 times. (Indiana 2002, Illinois 2005, Ohio State 2007, Michigan State 2009, Michigan 2013, Wisconsin 2015, Michigan 2018)

Pac 12 has 0. They have made the championship two times. (Arizona 2001, UCLA 2006).
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When you look at this you really see the big ten has won in the tourney. They’ve just won 2-4 games instead of 5.


sweet 16 games 2010-present by conference (counted for present conference regardless of conference at the time)

ACC - 36
Big 10 - 29
Big 12 - 26
SEC - 21
Pac 12 - 16
Big East - 12
WCC - 7
American - 6
Atlantic 10 - 4
Mountain west - 3
Missouri Valley - 2
Ivy - 1
MAC - 1
Atlantic Sun - 1


conference realignment really made the Missouri Valley weaker.

This doesn’t count the 2020-21 tourney as it is not yet complete.
 


B1G Basketball = Ugly basketball

The B1G is a grinder for the most part. Maybe not as much as it used to be, but the B1G plays a lot of hard fouling tough basketball that does not translate well to the dance. We cannot play with some of the teams that play other defensive styles and offenses.

Most B1G teams play the same style offense. Then in the tournament they see something new and hmm, how do we defend this? Or, my god, they are pressing us, this is new.

Michigan, Maryland and Iowa have the best chance in the tournament because they are the least like the typical B1G team. The rest of them you can change the jerseys and they still look the same with slightly better players on some of the teams because of recruiting but the same overall look.

The "Old Big East" was the perfect league. So many different styles to play against! You had to game plan for every single game because you had to change to face the 2-3 zone, man to man, The Princeton Offense, and John Thompson's schemes. It was basically a dress rehearsal for the tournament.

Not like the B1G, "Were playing Minny, pack it in and let them shoot boys."
 

touchdownvikings said:
I blame Wisconsin. Hear me out.

Wisconsin has "captured" most of the B1G (with a few exceptions) in both football and basketball. They have located systems in each of those respective sports that generate consistent very-good-but-not-quite-great teams. The precedent has not gone unnoticed. And it is attractive to AD's, because it: (1) is attainable with reasonable resources and recruiting capabilities; and (2) generates the kind of consistent results that keeps an AD in his job. So, increasingly, we are becoming a conference of Wisconsin acolytes. The result? A great many very-good-but-not-quite-great teams.

I could go on, but it is not exaggeration to say that the Badgers are the most influential program in the B1G and have defined its direction.
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That's an interesting theory. I'll admit that the conference often seems that way.
 

holereader said:
BIG tourney might be part of the issue - Ohio state played four games last weekend and Illinois played three - all in successive days - then to turn around and play with somewhat limited rest - the other thing is that there just are not any cup cake games anymore in this tournament- loads of good players and teams in this thing
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That really doesn't make the Big Ten different from multiple other conferences. Now, Loyola did have some rest because their conference tournament started earlier.
 

Some guy said:
When you look at this you really see the big ten has won in the tourney. They’ve just won 2-4 games instead of 5.


sweet 16 games 2010-present by conference (counted for present conference regardless of conference at the time)

ACC - 36
Big 10 - 29
Big 12 - 26
SEC - 21
Pac 12 - 16
Big East - 12
WCC - 7
American - 6
Atlantic 10 - 4
Mountain west - 3
Missouri Valley - 2
Ivy - 1
MAC - 1
Atlantic Sun - 1


conference realignment really made the Missouri Valley weaker.

This doesn’t count the 2020-21 tourney as it is not yet complete.
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You make a good point. But I think it is a restatement of the point I was making about Wisconsin. as a conference of mini-Wisconsin's, we perform very well, but do not reach greatness.

The pursuit of consistent performance that arises from systems that can work with reasonable facilities and recruiting yields good-but-not-great results. It yields that sort of outcome SYSTEMATICALLY - so you see it over and over.

Consistent success combined with consistent failure at the highest levels is built into the system virtually the entire conference pursues. Hence lots of Sweet 16's, but no national champions.
 

cjbfbp said:
Yes, that was mentioned but they weren't in the conference at the time.
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And they defeated a Big 10 team, Indiana, to win it.

It's a 1 game deal, teams have just happened to get out played and got beat in the end.
 

To win a conference, you need to recruit players and play a style that allows you to beat half the teams all the time and split with the other half. Easiest to do if you copy cat what the others are doing. Then, players fitting your style of play becomes a premium recruiting consideration.

To win the NCAA, you need uber athletic players or the versatility to change your style of play to counter the opponent. In general, the B1G does not get the uber athletic players (who go to Kentucky, Duke, etc). That does not mean the B1G does NOT get great players - just not many of the uber athletic ones.

But what's most discouraging is the failure of most B1G team to be versatile. It was hard to listen to the Illini commentator say over and over - Illinois needs to move away from the high pick and roll - because they simply could not.

Finally, in a 1 and done tournament, outliers on the 3 point shooting curve can hugely swing a game. I have found, in general, that B1G teams in general don't have the depth of 3 pt shooting that many of the smaller schools seem to have. That can be a problem.
 

UST82Gopher said:
To win a conference, you need to recruit players and play a style that allows you to beat half the teams all the time and split with the other half. Easiest to do if you copy cat what the others are doing. Then, players fitting your style of play becomes a premium recruiting consideration.

To win the NCAA, you need uber athletic players or the versatility to change your style of play to counter the opponent. In general, the B1G does not get the uber athletic players (who go to Kentucky, Duke, etc). That does not mean the B1G does NOT get great players - just not many of the uber athletic ones.

But what's most discouraging is the failure of most B1G team to be versatile. It was hard to listen to the Illini commentator say over and over - Illinois needs to move away from the high pick and roll - because they simply could not.

Finally, in a 1 and done tournament, outliers on the 3 point shooting curve can hugely swing a game. I have found, in general, that B1G teams in general don't have the depth of 3 pt shooting that many of the smaller schools seem to have. That can be a problem.
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Your last paragraph conflicts with your second paragraph
 

Some guy said:
Your last paragraph conflicts with your second paragraph
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Not really. Did you watch how effectively a high post feed with back door cutting work for Loyola? See Illinois to that? Loyola doubling off the corner shooter, and that Illini corner shooter never once went to the hoop backdoor - HUGELY played right into Loyola's hands as the corner guy did not need to be guarded.

See Illinois use the post for pin down screen for wings coming off the baseline? Nope. That would haven give elbow entry looks to some decent midrange shooters and removed the trap person from the high pick and roll.

Lots of ways to move away from high pick and roll and get other offense than 3's. Illinois only has a couple of reasonable 3 pt shooters - neither of which was on.

Demonstrates the lack of versatility which was my main point.
 

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