Why can Bo Ryan win at Wisconsin?

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He gets really good basketball players and then coaches them really well. Pretty simple formula.
 





wisbadger303 said:
Some real classy discussion here...
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That is the point. I dont want to have a discussion about it. Im sick of every time the Gophers lose we have to have dumba$$ threads asking why we cant be like Wisconsin. Like really?? Go be a Wisconsin fan if you want to be like them so bad.
 

the defense rests...
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Listen butthead, the last time I checked this isn't a Wisconsin, Purdue, or Ohio State messageboard. If you want to talk about your team there are plenty of avenues for you do it.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Because:

A) You suck.

B) You are a Badger fan.

C) You claim to be a fan of Gopher basketball and Badger football, which if it were true (which it isn't) is even worse than being a fan of Badger basketball and Badger football.

D) Did I mention the sucking?
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A - You do not know me, and I find it offensive that you hurl constant insults at me. But I do realize that is what internet boards are for.

B - Yes I am a fan of Wisconsin Football.

C - I am a Gopher BB fan. I also am impressed with Kill, I wish him the best and hope he brings the Gophs to the top half of the B10.

D - Thanks for the second rip.

This board used to have good discussion, but it has been reduced to ripping everyone who does not have a 100% positive take on the teams. Nearly every post turns into a argument and gets personal.
 




I do wonder, though, why are people surprised he can win at Wisconsin. If we had our full roster intact the last two seasons, our record might look quite meaty ourselves. So really, it seems the obvious answer is that (in addition to Kohl Center, which I mentioned earlier) when he gets his players, he keeps them. Once Tubby can start doing that, we'll be good to go.
 

Monty519 said:
I do wonder, though, why are people surprised he can win at Wisconsin. If we had our full roster intact the last two seasons, our record might look quite meaty ourselves. So really, it seems the obvious answer is that (in addition to Kohl Center, which I mentioned earlier) when he gets his players, he keeps them. Once Tubby can start doing that, we'll be good to go.
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I agree 100%. If Tubby had kept Carter, White, Joseph, and Nolen does not get hurt IMO this MN team is top 10 fighting for a B10 title and a 1 or 2 seed in the NCAA's, and we would all be giving Tubby the keys to the city.
 

Monty519 said:
I do wonder, though, why are people surprised he can win at Wisconsin. If we had our full roster intact the last two seasons, our record might look quite meaty ourselves. So really, it seems the obvious answer is that (in addition to Kohl Center, which I mentioned earlier) when he gets his players, he keeps them. Once Tubby can start doing that, we'll be good to go.
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Add in the fact that Bo took over a team two years removed from a final four ... its not like he took over a 9-22 team or anything.

Wisconsin had been good even before Bo, people on this board have such jealous lust for the man and I will never understand it.

Is he a good coach? Absolutely, maybe even a great one. His tournament success is minimal (which hurts his standing as a coach IMO) and he DOES recruit 4-star players, same as Tubby. They have different systems, and Tubby is just getting started here.

Reminder, Tubby took over a 9-22 team. Bo took over an 18-11 team. Their records in their first 3 seasons?

Tubby: 63 - 39 (.617)
Bo: 68 - 28 (.708)

So while I have no problem with people complimenting Bo's coaching (he is good!) let's stop acting (again) like Tubby is chopped liver and Bo is "manna from heaven" (as Mr. Khan would say). Continuity is huge for recruits, they don't sign with schools, they sign with coaches (a lot of the times). They know Bo isn't going anywhere after 10 years in, Tubby? some are still not sure, although it seems to be quieting down.

I know in MN we want to crucify every coach who doesn't win the title every year, and yes Tubby should be doing better, but seriously, give the man even two more years, let alone 6 more, and there is a chance this board becomes the 1 National Title basketball forum.
 

gopherbadgerman said:
I agree 100%. If Tubby had kept Carter, White, Joseph, and Nolen does not get hurt IMO this MN team is top 10 fighting for a B10 title and a 1 or 2 seed in the NCAA's, and we would all be giving Tubby the keys to the city.
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Very true.

Even with those transfers, if Nolen stays healthy this team is still ranked and looking at a 5 (or higher) seed.
 



PS. Anyone ever unable to figure out why in the world they HATE Stan Van Gundy? I found your answer (I never knew this):

Former Wisconsin Badgers coach for one season (1994-1995 season)
went 13-14, 7-11 in conference ... finished 9th.
 

How do their conference records compare during their first 3 years?
 

gall0249 said:
How do their conference records compare during their first 3 years?
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I will provide that for you. Although, I am getting very tired of going to Bo's Wikipedia page. I haven't looked at the record yet, but I can already tell you Bo's will be better. I know it isn't a complete cop out (but I use it as one) but Bo took over a much better team than Tubby did and I am just fine giving Tubby a few years to catch up to where Bo is at Wisconsin though (although career wise, Tubby already has the lead on him)

Anyways, the numbers.

Bo: 35 - 13
Tubby: 26 - 28

Don't forget, next season we have a top 50 recruit (by some) in Andre Hollis. The states top recruit in Joe Coleman. and the possibility to add one (or more) more recruits. Those considering that spot, are the #9 recruit in the country, 3-Star Henry Brooks, and JUCO PG Julian Welch. Any of which round out the class very nicely.

Last year was a down year with recruiting (lots of unexpected departures) but still managed to find some gems (Chip and Mo, and IMO, Oto will be as well)

Like I said, everyone brings up that its year 4 and he should be better (and things should be) but through bad luck, and some faults of his own (NO coach is perfect) it hasn't happened. Tubby deserves at least 1-2 more years before people start demanding he be fired and crucified as the worst thing to ever happen to Gopher basketball. If in two years, Gophers are still 9-9 and on the bubble, then its time to take a real look.
 

It is the same reason Wisconsin teams dominates at basketball and at Football. It is no secret that Wisconsin can keep kids in school, are well coached, and have an athletic department committed to winning. Maturi and the University Athletic department only gives lip service to the notion of creating a winning program for major sports in Minnesota. We are in loserville and Maturi has no idea how to change that fact.
 

I think it's essentially the same question, "Why could Mike Hebert win at Minnesota?" If you hadn't noticed, Minnesota is not the obvious place to find a national title-contending collegiate v-ball program. Hebert was just simply one of the finest coaches in the country. It's a matter of striking gold with your coaching hires. Same deal with John Anderson. It's just a shame we couldn't hold on to Brenda Frese.
 

no one gives a rats ass about volleyball......sorry bad gopher......the only gopher teams the masses care about systemically SUCK........
 

millions2spare said:
no one gives a rats ass about volleyball......sorry bad gopher......the only gopher teams the masses care about systemically SUCK........
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Well, let me put it this way, then. It's harder to make good decisions in high profile situations. That's where you end up with search committees and Tony Dungys and Dave Monas and dudes driving to airports to stalk corporate flights. All that crap actually gets in the way of making the right hire sometimes. But if you can overcome all that and get a hold of a good coach, the program takes care of itself.
 

Bad Gopher....I disagree.......Tubby is a very good coach. He cannot keep kids in School, Royce White, Devoe Joseph, paul carter, the list goes on. You cannot just reload players like you can in Pro Ball. Coaches want to win and they need support of the Administration to win. Support does not mean Lip service. The environment at the U of M does not promote winning for some reason. I would love someone to really dig deep and find out the real reasons why.

Why couldn't we keep Pam freeze? Pam Borton is horrific at best. Don Lucia had some success here and has had a bad product for a few years now. Tubby, Lucia, Mason, These guys are good coaches, I suspect there are other systemic reasons why all of our revenue producing programs are in the toilet. I choose to hoist the blame on the presidents office and Joel Maturi. So far, no-one can argue that the revenue producing programs for various reasons are on a negative trend and no-one seems to want to hold Maturi accountable.
 

millions2spare said:
Bad Gopher....I disagree.......Tubby is a very good coach. He cannot keep kids in School, Royce White, Devoe Joseph, paul carter, the list goes on. You cannot just reload players like you can in Pro Ball. Coaches want to win and they need support of the Administration to win. Support does not mean Lip service. The environment at the U of M does not promote winning for some reason. I would love someone to really dig deep and find out the real reasons why.

Why couldn't we keep Pam freeze? Pam Borton is horrific at best. Don Lucia had some success here and has had a bad product for a few years now. Tubby, Lucia, Mason, These guys are good coaches, I suspect there are other systemic reasons why all of our revenue producing programs are in the toilet. I choose to hoist the blame on the presidents office and Joel Maturi. So far, no-one can argue that the revenue producing programs for various reasons are on a negative trend and no-one seems to want to hold Maturi accountable.
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FWIW, we do agree. Tubby is a good coach, and I think the program's in good hands as long as he's here. I believe things will take care of themselves. But it hasn't happened yet, and he deserves some scrutiny. That's not unfair.
 

You can't recruit the same type players to play in Minnesota that he could in Kentucky....Bo Ryan knows this having coached in the state of Wisconsin his whole life...Tubby if figuring that out. Players with suspect character issues are going to get exposed up here. In Kentucky, the attitude was/is "I don't care how you win."
 

millions2spare said:
Bad Gopher....I disagree.......Tubby is a very good coach. He cannot keep kids in School, Royce White, Devoe Joseph, paul carter, the list goes on. You cannot just reload players like you can in Pro Ball. Coaches want to win and they need support of the Administration to win. Support does not mean Lip service. The environment at the U of M does not promote winning for some reason. I would love someone to really dig deep and find out the real reasons why.

Why couldn't we keep Pam freeze? Pam Borton is horrific at best. Don Lucia had some success here and has had a bad product for a few years now. Tubby, Lucia, Mason, These guys are good coaches, I suspect there are other systemic reasons why all of our revenue producing programs are in the toilet. I choose to hoist the blame on the presidents office and Joel Maturi. So far, no-one can argue that the revenue producing programs for various reasons are on a negative trend and no-one seems to want to hold Maturi accountable.
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Maturi is not to blame for losing Freese. He was not at the U when she quit. Borton was Chris Voelz' final hire
 

millions2spare said:
Bad Gopher....I disagree.......Tubby is a very good coach. He cannot keep kids in School, Royce White, Devoe Joseph, paul carter, the list goes on. You cannot just reload players like you can in Pro Ball. Coaches want to win and they need support of the Administration to win. Support does not mean Lip service. The environment at the U of M does not promote winning for some reason. I would love someone to really dig deep and find out the real reasons why.

Why couldn't we keep Pam freeze? Pam Borton is horrific at best. Don Lucia had some success here and has had a bad product for a few years now. Tubby, Lucia, Mason, These guys are good coaches, I suspect there are other systemic reasons why all of our revenue producing programs are in the toilet. I choose to hoist the blame on the presidents office and Joel Maturi. So far, no-one can argue that the revenue producing programs for various reasons are on a negative trend and no-one seems to want to hold Maturi accountable.
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Royce White stole pants at MOA and assualted a security guard. Then he refused to cooperate with investigation of laptop in a dorm. Good riddance!

Paul Carter's sister got cancer. He transferred to be closer to her - HIS words. Tubby's fault? Absurd!

NO ONE KNOWS (publicly) why Devoe Joseph left in mid-year.
 

Bo's guys stay, get better and accept their role.

I think as a whole, we have been more athletic, but have been (largely through calamity) a hodge podge of talents and roles. It's all about execution to achieve quality shots, which Ryan's teams excel at. We are currently terrible at that and even when healthy nowhere near WI in that regard.

You can also win by athletic dominance, which is what I think we would have done the past two years had not a tsunami of crap washed up on our shores.

Take away the names and think about this:

Last year, on our bench:

A PG who ranks 2nd/3rd on our schools all-time steals/assists list, despite missing half of his final two seasons.

A PF (at a position we obviously lacked) who demonstrated that he could average a double/double.

A 5 star Freshman Forward.


This year:

Same PG

A four star G (who happens to be our only other viable option at PG) who is probably our best offensive player.

A promising recruit (probably our 8th best player at worst, meaning we probably lost our 2nd, 3rd and 8th best players)

1) How good would we have been with Nolen and Mbakwe last year?

2) We would be a minimum 0f 21-6, likely better right now. The continuity issues of Nolen/Joseph in those first two Big ten games can't be overstated. I think we take one of those two and maybe even OSU at home. 22-5 minimum right now.

Beyond bitter.
 

Bottomline he's a great coach. Easily the second best in the B10 the last decade after Izzo and I would put him on a plane of one of the best in B10 history... certainly if he goes to a Final 4.

Very similiar career to this point as Gene Keady.

He gets better players than rankings give him credit for, but nearly all his kids stay in the program 4+ years. You very rarely ever hear of a kid transfer, get kicked off (happened a couple years ago though) or have major academic issues.

As a result, he gets good but not great talent that develops in the program because they stay all 4 or 5 years. Both Leuer and Taylor were good recruits but not heralded recruits yet they stay all 4 years, develop, play team basketball. In the end there all B10 performers like this year.

He recruits and develops these kids to play in a less than sexy yet very effective system. Pretty good recipe for long-term success... though it may never get them to the NCAA title. However, given the state of the program for nearly 40 years (futility), it's been an impressive turnaround. Read something a while back that his teams have never finished less than 4th in the B10. Been to the tourney every year and has won 5 regular season or tourney titles.... I'd take that even if it was "boring" bball. Most gopher fans I know would as well.
 

Jdogg0821 said:
Bottomline he's a great coach. Easily the second best in the B10 the last decade after Izzo and I would put him on a plane of one of the best in B10 history... certainly if he goes to a Final 4.

Very similiar career to this point as Gene Keady.

He gets better players than rankings give him credit for, but nearly all his kids stay in the program 4+ years. You very rarely ever hear of a kid transfer, get kicked off (happened a couple years ago though) or have major academic issues.

As a result, he gets good but not great talent that develops in the program because they stay all 4 or 5 years. Both Leuer and Taylor were good recruits but not heralded recruits yet they stay all 4 years, develop, play team basketball. In the end there all B10 performers like this year.

He recruits and develops these kids to play in a less than sexy yet very effective system. Pretty good recipe for long-term success... though it may never get them to the NCAA title. However, given the state of the program for nearly 40 years (futility), it's been an impressive turnaround. Read something a while back that his teams have never finished less than 4th in the B10. Been to the tourney every year and has won 5 regular season or tourney titles.... I'd take that even if it was "boring" bball. Most gopher fans I know would as well.
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Bo has very little NCAA tourney success. That's what hurts his numbers IMO.

And Leaur was a 4-star recruit, not quite unheralded. If he was unheralded, so was RSIII, Rodney, Devoe, Trevor, etc.
 

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