Who will start at QB game 1

[Unregistered User]

I agree with you. I'm not sure we have evidence for #2 but the others seem plausible.

I think Rhoda does not possess an arm as strong as Croft, so he looks for more check downs and "safer" throws rather than going vertical with a lot of balls trying to hit home runs.

Either by design or physical abilities, I see Rhoda as less of a risk taker. Not trying to put words in Dpo's mouth, but that is how I see it laying out.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

I think Rhoda does not possess an arm as strong as Croft, so he looks for more check downs and "safer" throws rather than going vertical with a lot of balls trying to hit home runs.

Either by design or physical abilities, I see Rhoda as less of a risk taker. Not trying to put words in Dpo's mouth, but that is how I see it laying out.

If I played QB I'd probabbly be "less of a risk taker" but only because I couldn't do much more.

Not to say you're wrong but "game manager" qbs and such types IMO... generally are that way because they can't be something else, not so much personal style.

 

[Section2]

I didn't get a chance to see either practice. Which one did you attend? Other observations were that Croft was more vocal, animated...outwardly showing leadership compared to Rhoda but that their performances were close. Wondering if that's more a factor of which practice folks attended...

Saturday. I can't comment on the other stuff, I was moving around a lot and couldn't hear. But in terms of pure passing and running an offense, Croft waaaay better. Just one practice though.

 

[Section2]

Again, these are just my thoughts:

1. Reward Rhoda for sticking it out another year
2. Rhoda is less of a risk-taker, less likely to turn the ball over, meshes well with running the ball 65-70% of the time like I think we will
3. Not starting Croft this year makes it easier to start Morgan or Armstrong next year and beyond if that is their plan

I still think that Croft is by far the better option and I hope that he does start, but I can see it playing out this way for these stated reasons.

1 and 3 involve making the team worse on purpose. I can't see any coaching staff doing that. They gave Rhoda a scholly, no? that's his reward.

I don't see Fleck as the type that needs to make it easier to make a QB change. If Croft is the best, he'll play. If he's pretty good, you can always replace him with someone better. If he's awesome and we exceed expectations, you have him 2 more years.

2 is the only option that makes sense for choosing Rhoda. If he makes less mistakes and you think your best chance to win is relying on the D and running game.

 

[PMWinSTP]

I think Rhoda does not possess an arm as strong as Croft, so he looks for more check downs and "safer" throws rather than going vertical with a lot of balls trying to hit home runs.

Either by design or physical abilities, I see Rhoda as less of a risk taker. Not trying to put words in Dpo's mouth, but that is how I see it laying out.

Not sure where the arm strength thing is coming from with Rhoda. This wasn't a question last year (since he arrived at the U, really) or coming out of HS. Article before Maryland game...

From all accounts, Rhoda has the arm and temperament to effectively manage the Gophers offense. But does he run well enough to keep defenses honest on the read option? “I think his running game is solid,” Johnson said. “I think sometimes people underestimate him, so I feel good about it. I think we can continue to do what we do. I don’t think there has to be drastic changes.” At Cretin-Derham Hall, Rhoda took over as the starting quarterback midway through his junior year and led the Raiders to the Prep Bowl. “He runs as well as he throws,” former Cretin coach Mike Scanlan said. “That’s the thing. He’s a very physical kid.”

http://www.startribune.com/gophers-confident-in-handing-off-offense-to-conor-rhoda/396881131/

There's no question in my mind that Croft is a better runner than Rhoda, but Fleck's offense does not ask the QB to be a feature of the running game.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

1 and 3 involve making the team worse on purpose. I can't see any coaching staff doing that. They gave Rhoda a scholly, no? that's his reward.

I don't see Fleck as the type that needs to make it easier to make a QB change. If Croft is the best, he'll play. If he's pretty good, you can always replace him with someone better. If he's awesome and we exceed expectations, you have him 2 more years.

2 is the only option that makes sense for choosing Rhoda. If he makes less mistakes and you think your best chance to win is relying on the D and running game.

I agree, especially on #3. If Croft is the starter this season and has a mediocre to bad season, then there's no reason to not give Morgan or Armstrong a chance to win the battle next fall. If one of those guys beat him out, then we'll have a backup that has starting experience.

 

[Ski U Mah 55]

I don't even know who 3 of these people are.

 

[John Galt]

I was at both practices and agree Croft looked better on Saturday. On Friday night, I watched Croft bounce a few passes in front of WRs and miss some easy throws, which is why I thought the edge would go to Rhoda. Along with the fact that it appeared Rhoda played more with the 1s. I think it's a toss-up at this point at could go either way... which is why the coaches haven't named a starter.

Before the season ends, I'm sure we'll have seen a fair amount of both, everyone will acknowledge both leave something to be desired, and we will be discussing whether Green, Morgan or Armstrong are the QB of the future...

 

[salzie]

It sounds dumb, but I just hope we're not always losing the yardage battle. (I realize always is an overstatement)..many games I see half time box score and we've been outgained 2-1 (yet at times had the lead)...and hopefully the new QB can get us there along with schematic improvement

 

[GFBfan]

Again, these are just my thoughts:

1. Reward Rhoda for sticking it out another year
2. Rhoda is less of a risk-taker, less likely to turn the ball over, meshes well with running the ball 65-70% of the time like I think we will
3. Not starting Croft this year makes it easier to start Morgan or Armstrong next year and beyond if that is their plan

I still think that Croft is by far the better option and I hope that he does start, but I can see it playing out this way for these stated reasons.

I believe Croft has more potential to reach a new, unseen at the U of M, level of QB play in PJ's, system.
With 1, I think because PJ asked him to come back, he is slow playing who the starter is so it doesn't look as bad that he asked Rhoda to come back and then didn't name him the starter or give him a good chance to claim the spot.
With 2, I believe they want better balance than a 70-30 run pass ratio, so they will pick the guy who can handle making correct reads and throws to take some of the burden off the running game.
With 3, would hope this is not the case. Nobody knows if Morgan or Armstrong will be that much next year.

 

[MennoSota]

There is enough smoke blowing out of dinky town to cover the Utah Beach assault. Fleck is not a dumb guy. He cannot lose by setting low expectations. He knows none of his QB options has played a full season. He knows none of them have mastered the offense. What do you expect him to say? The QB has great mastery of the offense? Croft is phenomenal? Ergo, expect a great offensive output? No! Fleck won one game his first year at WMU. He literally doesn't know how Croft will perform under game conditions. He wants him to do well. He wants him to seize the job. However, it's quite possible he won't and Fleck will say nothing that could be held against him by those of us in the peanut gallery if Operation Overlord becomes Operation Barbarossa.

Excellent use of WWII references. I presume you just walked out of Dunkirk. [emoji41]

 

[John Galt]

I believe Croft has more potential to reach a new, unseen at the U of M, level of QB play in PJ's, system.
With 1, I think because PJ asked him to come back, he is slow playing who the starter is so it doesn't look as bad that he asked Rhoda to come back and then didn't name him the starter or give him a good chance to claim the spot.
With 2, I believe they want better balance than a 70-30 run pass ratio, so they will pick the guy who can handle making correct reads and throws to take some of the burden off the running game.
With 3, would hope this is not the case. Nobody knows if Morgan or Armstrong will be that much next year.

Now you're just trolling...

 

[Lakeville Goldy]

1 and 3 involve making the team worse on purpose. I can't see any coaching staff doing that. They gave Rhoda a scholly, no? that's his reward.

I don't see Fleck as the type that needs to make it easier to make a QB change. If Croft is the best, he'll play. If he's pretty good, you can always replace him with someone better. If he's awesome and we exceed expectations, you have him 2 more years.

2 is the only option that makes sense for choosing Rhoda. If he makes less mistakes and you think your best chance to win is relying on the D and running game.

The bold assumes there is a significant and known difference between the two. However, if they are "close" (whatever that means), then you can see those things coming into play. It's the old adage that if you have two equal players you always play the one with more eligibility left (though kind of the opposite in this case). It doesn't mean you're trying to win next year at the cost of this year. If they don't see Croft winning more games than Rhoda but they see Morgan/Armstrong as the projected starter next year then I could see them choosing Rhoda. While it's true that Croft starting this year doesn't guarantee him anything next year, for team morale it makes a big difference to say since we don't have a returning starter it's going to be an open competition vs. we have no faith the returning starter can actually get the job done.

I do agree Rhoda's scholarship was his "reward". He never would have left in the first place if Claeys had re-upped his scholarship. I don't think there is anything more to it than that. He didn't really want to transfer, Fleck didn't want to lose him, problem solved.

I personally said Croft, but I see Rhoda as definitely in the mix, especially based on the above.

 

[Section2]

Now you're just trolling...

It does sound ludicrous, until you start looking at our QBs over the last 40 years, then a "new unseen level" can correctly be viewed as "might get drafted in the late rounds".

 

[Section2]

The bold assumes there is a significant and known difference between the two. However, if they are "close" (whatever that means), then you can see those things coming into play. It's the old adage that if you have two equal players you always play the one with more eligibility left (though kind of the opposite in this case). It doesn't mean you're trying to win next year at the cost of this year. If they don't see Croft winning more games than Rhoda but they see Morgan/Armstrong as the projected starter next year then I could see them choosing Rhoda. While it's true that Croft starting this year doesn't guarantee him anything next year, for team morale it makes a big difference to say since we don't have a returning starter it's going to be an open competition vs. we have no faith the returning starter can actually get the job done.

I do agree Rhoda's scholarship was his "reward". He never would have left in the first place if Claeys had re-upped his scholarship. I don't think there is anything more to it than that. He didn't really want to transfer, Fleck didn't want to lose him, problem solved.

I personally said Croft, but I see Rhoda as definitely in the mix, especially based on the above.

I just find that scenario and thought process to be ludicrous at the QB position. There is no advantage to be gained. If Croft plays and doesn't play well, it's not hard for team morale to start a new guy that everyone can see in practice is performing better. It's good for team morale. If Croft plays and plays well, there is no downside.

This is fan rationale, not reality, this is just a quick way to get fired for a coach.

It's quite apparent to me and from what I've read, that they want Croft, they just want him to take the job, and take a leadership role. If Rhoda ends up starting, it's because he's the best QB and gives the team the best chance to win, or because Croft isn't doing the little things well and Fleck is making him an example to serve the culture.

 

[GFBfan]

Now you're just trolling...

Nope,
Have a belief that PJF and Ciarocca are very good offensive coaches and Croft has a skill set that matches their system very well. The WMU QB put up great numbers every year he was the starter and those numbers are better than anything we have seen at the U of M. Thus my statement. Ski-U-Mah!

 

[GameDay]

We haven't had good QB play here since Adam Weber. Can't we just get lucky and recruit a guy who turns out to be a real gamer and can legitimately throw the ball? Sheesh... its been like 7 or so years now.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

We haven't had good QB play here since Adam Weber. Can't we just get lucky and recruit a guy who turns out to be a real gamer and can legitimately throw the ball? Sheesh... its been like 7 or so years now.

I suppose it could happen but I'm not sure how many guys there are who are under the radar enough in HS and not heavily rooted up by someone else... then blew up in college. I'm sure it happens, but I'm thinking if you're hoping to just get lucky on that one the odds are low

 

[#2Gopher]

Rhoda is the safe pick if Croft is throwing long etc., causing more interceptions. That means however that the running game needs to be in order as well to be successful for Rhoda. So I'm kind of all over the board there.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Plenty of INTs to be had on short and intermediate passes. Decision-making #1 attribute. If Rhoda is better in that respect then he should start. A little birdie has said that's not the case here but the birdie could be wrong.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Excellent use of WWII references. I presume you just walked out of Dunkirk. [emoji41]

Nope, just a history buff fascinated by strategy and good, fair, and bad decisions. When we finish our annual tour through the upper Midwest I plan to see it. Good?

 

[bemidjigopher]

My gut says Rhoda and my head says Croft. I'm going with Rhoda, although Croft gives you more escapability and the scrambling dimension. Logic says Croft but gut says Rhoda is more of a Fleck guy. Maybe more of a fighter and he may have better decision making, which Fleck has mentioned multiple times, his requirement for a decisive decision maker. I also think we may see multiple QB's get game opportunities.

The conspiracy theorist any me thinks Fleck will throw this year away start Rhoda (barf) so he can sell playing time to qb cruits

 

[MennoSota]

Nope, just a history buff fascinated by strategy and good, fair, and bad decisions. When we finish our annual tour through the upper Midwest I plan to see it. Good?

It's good for the person who knows history. The movie doesn't set the time frame for when Dunkirk takes place so my kids were wondering when it took place in the time line of the war. Other than that, it's a good movie and worth seeing.

I just dropped in to Sturgeon Bay, WI and went to their maritime museum. The region built landing craft and submarines for WWII and D-day. It makes a person admire the tenacity of that generation.

 

[Spoofin]

I'm not buying that PJ starts Rhoda so it is easier to start Morgan or Armstrong next year. That would tie his hands by having no experience on the roster next year as if he doesn't start Croft this year I put the odds very high that Demry transfers out.


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[JTsolo612]

I'm not buying that PJ starts Rhoda so it is easier to start Morgan or Armstrong next year. That would tie his hands by having no experience on the roster next year as if he doesn't start Croft this year I put the odds very high that Demry transfers out.


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I second the part about fleck not basing his decision on the new kids. Any coach I think would play the best guy. Period. If some freshman doesn't like it I think you'd be worrying about the wrong thing. You have a guy that's better. Oh well. Talented kids transfer out of helmet schools all the time because of playing time issues and lost position battles. (Case in point: the two new gophers everyone is excited about, including me!) Might be a sign that we're really stepping it up. Anyways W injuries and all that I'm sure there will be touches to be had by more than one guy so we'll see what we have. And may the best man win!


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[Rickman55]

What kind of future does J. Roste have?

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

I'm not buying that PJ starts Rhoda so it is easier to start Morgan or Armstrong next year. That would tie his hands by having no experience on the roster next year as if he doesn't start Croft this year I put the odds very high that Demry transfers out.


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Imagine if TC had for some insane reason chosen not to play his best QB last year because he wanted to save him.... doh.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

What kind of future does J. Roste have?

What is his major?

 

[Tigger]

What is his major?

Actually I am wondering the same thing. Roste has the physical tools (arm and running ability) and his HS numbers are on par or better than the QBs we have. At 6'3" and 230 he has the size. Has he gotten any reps at practice does anyone know?

 

[Gopher028]

Should be Croft, but I have a feeling if he doesnt pull clearly away, he'll go with Rhoda, cuz he came back from quitting football.