Who will do better against Ohio State: FleckBall vs Fickell AirRaid?

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RememberMurray said:
The original question was regarding which style of play (FleckBall or Fickell AirRaid) will be more successful against a highly-ranked common opponent (Ohio State).

Your take is that "offensive scheme has really nothing to do with it"? Is that correct?
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You are mis-identifying the two teams. Fickell does not have an air raid offense. He doesn't have the personnel. Fleck doesn't have an identifiable offense other than unintelligent.
 

Dakota2 said:
You are mis-identifying the two teams. Fickell does not have an air raid offense. He doesn't have the personnel. Fleck doesn't have an identifiable offense other than unintelligent.
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Fickell literally runs air raid schemes this year.
Just because you run the ball some doesn’t make your scheme different
 

The only thing that is most correct when it comes to offensive scheme is: you should do what your players this year are best suited to do.

NOT try to force a particular scheme simply because that’s what you want to do or what you like or what you want to be your “identity”.
 

MplsGopher said:
The only thing that is most correct when it comes to offensive scheme is: you should do what your players this year are best suited to do.

NOT try to force a particular scheme simply because that’s what you want to do or what you like or what you want to be your “identity”.
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That might be true in the short term. In the long term forcing a scheme is also known as creating an identity
 


I like the “identity” of “scores lots of points” and “gains lots of yards”.

That’s the correct identity.
 

Dakota2 said:
Hold on, Murr ... Did you watch the Wisky game last night?

Fickell ball is pretty balanced. No air raid involved. Whisky threw 39 times but playing from behind from early in the third quarter forced more passing. They played OSU to 10-10 by balancing between run and pass. They were fine until Braelin Allen went down and took away the balance.

We threw 18 times in the first half trying to be balanced. Worked great (AK had 190+ yards at halftime). We didn't score but played balanced anyway. Fleck went full Nubin in the second half because it was obvious our Oline was wearing down the D. No objection here to that because it was quite obviously an easy decision. A better offensive coach would have continued to mix it up to save battering his running back.

Fickell may want to run an air raid but he doesn't have the QB to do that.
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Which, in your opinion, is the best example of a smart offensive football approach for the 2023 Gophers:

A) Achieve a balance of roughly equal passing attempts to rushing attempts

B) Score as many points as possible, as quickly as possible

C) Contribute to winning the football game by controlling the ball and the clock and wearing down your opponent's defense while not committing turnovers — thereby giving your own defense time to rest and adjust
 

Some guy said:
That might be true in the short term. In the long term forcing a scheme is also known as creating an identity
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An identity. Like, say for example... run-heavy, control the ball and the clock?
 

RememberMurray said:
An identity. Like, say for example... run-heavy, control the ball and the clock?
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That would be an identity yes.

Wisconsin called 43-44 passes last night.
Called 20-21 runs.
I can’t remember which of the QB’s runs were called vs scrambles
 



Like most any of us, I fully expect to lose the game at Ohio State.

But I’d add that I also fully expect a pivotal head scratching reffing call will go against the Gophers at a moment that could have made a difference. That has happened in each of the past 3 matchups with OSU.
 

Some guy said:
Fickell literally runs air raid schemes this year.
Just because you run the ball some doesn’t make your scheme different
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Let’s see …. You pass a few times and run a few times and that makes it the air raid because it’s a scheme. Got it.
 

MplsGopher said:
I like the “identity” of “scores lots of points” and “gains lots of yards”.

That’s the correct identity.
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Funny how sometimes the shortest posts make the most sense.
 

Dakota2 said:
Let’s see …. You pass a few times and run a few times and that makes it the air raid because it’s a scheme. Got it.
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1) running air raid scheme literally does make it air raid scheme, yes. Sounds like you get it now.

2) they’re 60/40 pass run for the season

3) they were 70/30 last night


Sorry reality makes you so sad. You are a fan of an air raid team. Last year UNC ran for 2200.
Wisconsin currently on pace to run for 2189 in a 13 game season. I suppose you don’t think UNC was air raid either 😂😂
 
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RememberMurray said:
Which, in your opinion, is the best example of a smart offensive football approach for the 2023 Gophers:

A) Achieve a balance of roughly equal passing attempts to rushing attempts

B) Score as many points as possible, as quickly as possible

C) Contribute to winning the football game by controlling the ball and the clock and wearing down your opponent's defense while not committing turnovers — thereby giving your own defense time to rest and adjust
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Balance is not statistics ( roughly half blah blah blaw). You certainly know that. Balance is looking at the defense and seeing them playing the whole field because they don’t know what’s coming and are afraid to cheat.

Controlling clock is meaningless until you have a lead late. Running off 4-5 minutes without scoring just leaves you less time to score later if you are in a close game.

Any offense which starts the game with the objective of “taking the air out of the ball” is stupid or based on cult indoctrination.
 



Schnauzer said:
Like most any of us, I fully expect to lose the game at Ohio State.

But I’d add that I also fully expect a pivotal head scratching reffing call will go against the Gophers at a moment that could have made a difference. That has happened in each of the past 3 matchups with OSU.
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There was no targeting there. Our guy just fumbled while momentarily knocked out. OSU ball.
 

Some guy said:
1) running air raid scheme literally does make it air raid scheme, yes. Sounds like you get it now.

2) they’re 60/40 pass run for the season

3) they were 70/30 last night


Sorry reality makes you so sad. You are a fan of an air raid team. Last year UNC ran for 2200.
Wisconsin currently on pace to run for 2189 in a 13 game season. I suppose you don’t think UNC was air raid either 😂😂
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Never saw an air raid in practice or one that was because you said so. Smart offensive football puts maximum stress on the defense because they can never be sure what’s coming. That doesn’t need a label so you are not required to explain it to me.
 

Dakota2 said:
Any offense which starts the game with the objective of “taking the air out of the ball” is stupid or based on cult indoctrination.
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hard disagree with this take

If you have less talent than the enemy:
The fewer plays there are the fewer times you have to our execute them to beat them. It is literally why navy and army do what they do.
 

Minnesota is near dead-last in the country in explosive plays over 20 yards. The MN defense isn’t as good at limiting them this year. Special teams and field position battle is meh at best. That is a combination for butt clenchers or blowouts every week.

Fleckball can work if you have better talent. Sadly probably not the case versus Ohio State. If MN pulls a rabbit out of the hat and generates some explosive plays maybe there’s a chance.

Fleckball doesn’t have to mean letting the passing game die on the vine. MN needs better players, though, to make that part of the offense go. Hard to attract those players running 75% of the time.



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Pompous Elitist said:
Minnesota is near dead-last in the country in explosive plays over 20 yards. The MN defense isn’t as good at limiting them this year. Special teams and fiElle position battle is meh at best. That is a combination for butt clenchers or blowouts every week.

Fleckball can work if you have better talent. Sadly probably not the case versus Ahia’ State. If MN pulls a rabbit out of the hat and generates some explosive plays maybe there’s a chance.

Fleckball doesn’t have to mean letting the passing game die on the vine. MN needs better players, though, to make that part of the offense go. Hard to attract those players running 75% of the time.
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And you will vividly recall the night at the Horseshoe in 2022. The Gophers had a hat and a beautiful rabbit. We lead the might OSU in the third quarter.

Then the hat fell apart with Mo's injury and the rabbit turned into a Big Ten referee crew. No, that was not targeting just because MBS is laying unconsious on the field. And because a knocked out guy doesn't hold onto the ball it's a fumble and not your ball.

That very promising drive dying at the hands of incompetent or, maybe, corrupt buffoons, effectively ended the game.
 

Some guy said:
1) running air raid scheme literally does make it air raid scheme, yes. Sounds like you get it now.

2) they’re 60/40 pass run for the season

3) they were 70/30 last night


Sorry reality makes you so sad. You are a fan of an air raid team. Last year UNC ran for 2200.
Wisconsin currently on pace to run for 2189 in a 13 game season. I suppose you don’t think UNC was air raid either 😂😂
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I think NC throws a lot because they have an NFL level QB and quality receivers. It works. Fickell has neither the QB or receivers to do that.

But how about this, if he wants to throw most downs against us in late November, I can't wait. Winston and his crew are getting better by the day. Nubin, Walley, and Jones will feast on a mediocre, slow QB who is throwing desperation balls up for grabs in the face of the pressure. Let's do it.
 

Some guy said:
That would be an identity yes.

Wisconsin called 43-44 passes last night.
Called 20-21 runs.
I can’t remember which of the QB’s runs were called vs scrambles
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Stat sheet said he threw 39 times. Yes, a few called plays ended in scrambles. Keep in mind, after Allen went down at the 10-10 score mark, Whisky played from behind. More passing maybe? Still, 39 passes hardly qualifies as a London blitz.

I have only seen two air raids. The beloved and unforgettable Mike Leach, may be RIP, and my son's juco coach who had a weak opponent the first game of the season and announced publicly he would throw every down for four quarters. First and ten to 4th and 20 from the goal line. Every play.

Same QB slung it 98 times and completed about 70.
 

Rather than attempt to interpret/digest any more indigestible word salads, I'm going to hit the refresh/restart button on this topic by carefully rephrasing the original question. Here goes:

Will the Fleck/Harbaugh/Simon Gopher offense be more or less productive than the Fickell/Longo Wisconsin offense vs. Ohio State?

For comparison purposes, here's what the Fickell/Longo Wisconsin offense produced vs. the Buckeyes:

Win/Loss: LOSS

Points Scored: 10

First Downs: 14

3rd Down Efficiency: 6-16

4th Down Efficiency: 0-2

Total Yards: 259

Passing: 165 (18 of 39, 4.2 yds./att.)

Rushing: 94 (25 attempts, 3.8 yds./att.)

Turnovers: 1

Time of Possession: 24:10

www.espn.com

Ohio State 24-10 Wisconsin (Oct 28, 2023) Game Stats - ESPN

Complete team stats and game leaders for the Ohio State Buckeyes vs. Wisconsin Badgers NCAAF game from October 28, 2023 on ESPN.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
 

Dakota2 said:
Stat sheet said he threw 39 times. Yes, a few called plays ended in scrambles. Keep in mind, after Allen went down at the 10-10 score mark, Whisky played from behind. More passing maybe? Still, 39 passes hardly qualifies as a London blitz.

I have only seen two air raids. The beloved and unforgettable Mike Leach, may be RIP, and my son's juco coach who had a weak opponent the first game of the season and announced publicly he would throw every down for four quarters. First and ten to 4th and 20 from the goal line. Every play.

Same QB slung it 98 times and completed about 70.
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There are dozens of college teams and thousands of high school teams that run air raid concepts. Wisconsin runs air raid. Sorry
 

Dakota2 said:
Stat sheet said he threw 39 times. Yes, a few called plays ended in scrambles. Keep in mind, after Allen went down at the 10-10 score mark, Whisky played from behind. More passing maybe? Still, 39 passes hardly qualifies as a London blitz.

I have only seen two air raids. The beloved and unforgettable Mike Leach, may be RIP, and my son's juco coach who had a weak opponent the first game of the season and announced publicly he would throw every down for four quarters. First and ten to 4th and 20 from the goal line. Every play.

Same QB slung it 98 times and completed about 70.
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Are you arguing that we can determine whether or not a team is using the AirRaid offense by counting the number of passes the team throws?
 

Are we talking degrees? The way I see it, tOSU has horses and the Gophers and Badgers both have ponies and I've never seen a pony win the Kentucky Derby.

Ideally, our offense gets enough first downs and eats enough clock to keep the defense rested. McCord is a step down from previous tOSU QBs, but Harrison, Jr., is all-world. Henderson and Stover are also very good. Problem with a ball-control offense at this level is that if you aren't successful early and get behind, you have to go off script and then things can get ugly.
 



Some guy said:
There are dozens of college teams and thousands of high school teams that run air raid concepts. Wisconsin runs air raid. Sorry
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No question about it. Throwing 39 times, behind the second half, is an air raid not seen since the London blitz. Just can't argue with your analysis.
 

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