Who is to blame for the epic fail in QB evaluations?

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Too much groupthink on “measurables”

Can the guy throw accurately, or not. Smart, or not.

Don’t overthink it. Most passes travel less than 20 yards in the air and most college DBs aren’t super quick.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
well, at a program like MN that is run-heavy, it's not going to be the favored destination for QB's who want to throw the ball.

in the current climate, add a relative lack of NIL, and that makes it tough.

beyond that - I get a sense that they like to go for QB's based on potential. and in some cases, the potential has not been realized. you can call that a recruiting miss, or a failure on the coaches to develop the QB to bring out that potential.

but the point is taken. 7 years at MN and this regime has had 1 competent QB - and that guy even drove fans nuts with some of his limitations. (but - were they his limitations, or were the limitations imposed on him by the coaching staff? I wonder.....)
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I don't think there's a conscious decision to recruit potential. I think it's the only option. We can't recruit QB's with actual demonstrated ability. That's why we put our eggs in the basket of a kid that didn't play a junior or senior year of high school. We hoped he was good; that he'd somehow improve without actually playing.

I agree very much with you. This isn't an attractive spot for a QB or offensive talent, nevermind the NIL situation.Until PJ hires a proven coordinator and let's him coach a modern offense, recruiting is going to be brutal.
 

mngg11 said:
We don't need a home run, can't miss dude. We need a Bryan Cupito. Safe completionist who can move the ball through the air when the defense stacks the box and can hit the play action like a mofo when needed.
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This.
 



@Pompous Elitist so true and not just CFB, not just pervasively in sports, but pervasively in life.

Metrics as the end all be all. Moneyball to the nth degree. Risk reduction as much as possible, in the hopes that somehow it compiles up to a desirable grand outcome.

If a kid doesn’t satisfy these metrics, doesn’t score this rating in these combine tests, doesn’t have these stats … won’t even look at him.

Nevermind if he can actually throw a ball!


That’s how you get Zach A and Athan K.
 

Here are 3 reasons why AK was unsuccessful IMO.
1. The current OC/QB Coach is not of P5 caliber. AK had a really solid end of 2022 under KC. Harbaugh just doesn’t cut it and until PJ figures that out, don’t expect the new QB to be any better.
2. A significant drop off on the O Line played a big role. AK was constantly under duress this year. And they were inconsistent, at best, with run blocking also.
3. Lack of skilled playmakers at WR outside of Daniel Jackson. Crooms and Spencer were oversold as playmakers. They could barely get open. Where was Hoskins, who was billed as a threat ? And BSF wasn’t made a bigger part of the offense. This team hates using the TE as a weapon based upon the play calling I saw.
 

Viramontes
Annexstad
Clark
Knuth
Kaliakmanis
Viotto

Pretty much everyone PJ has recruited to be 'the guy' has left except Morgan. Is this a program issue or just a sign of the times ?
 

You can say the same thing about 98% of the other college coaches, and 95% of the NFL GMs/coaches.

QB is the most important position in football. It's also the hardest position to recruit or draft. The few teams who find a great QB, win big. The rest of the teams who don't are mediocre to bad. This isn't just a MN/PJ issue.

When Tanner was playing at an elite level, we won 11 games. When AK completed passes, the offense was good. Kevin O'Connell looked like a genius for two weeks when Josh Dobbs was making plays and completing passes. The last two games he has been terrible, and now suddenly KOC 'can't coach'. Did Addison and Hockenson suddenly become terrible too?

At least PJ understands he didn't have a QB this season, and is trying to find one this offseason.
 



I think you're asking the wrong question.

Instead of asking about evaluation failure, maybe its a development failure? Athan has gotten worse, not better. He has talent and tools. I'll be interested to see how he does where ever he ends up.
 

The fact a lot of these kids probably missed at least one, if not two high school seasons due to Covid makes it that much more difficult
 


tjgopher said:
I think you're asking the wrong question.

Instead of asking about evaluation failure, maybe its a development failure? Athan has gotten worse, not better. He has talent and tools. I'll be interested to see how he does where ever he ends up.
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From everything that I heard, Athan was really impressive in practice the last couple of years. He passed Annexstad and Clark on the depth chart and was not threatened by the kid from South Dakota. There is no way this version of Athan that we saw would have been handed the keys. I believe he regressed. His throwing motion was really unnnatural.

I think there is likely a evaluation failure but a massive developmental and schematic failure as well. Our passing game is broken from the ground up.
 



Bob_Loblaw said:
Our passing game is broken from the ground up.
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There was no passing game to even be broken. It simply wasn't a priority and there was literally no commitment to it. The passing game was looked at as an inconvenience to this coaching staff. Shockingly. That's not good for any quarterback and obviously stunted the kid's growth. I feel bad for the QB.

Before the passing game can even be broken, they need to implement a passing game. If that doesn't change, it won't matter who they bring in to be the starting QB.
 


Bring back the Axe said:
Viramontes
Annexstad
Clark
Knuth
Kaliakmanis
Viotto

Pretty much everyone PJ has recruited to be 'the guy' has left except Morgan. Is this a program issue or just a sign of the times ?
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I don’t think this is a fair list. We do not know how Viramontes, Annexstad, or Clark would have done if they were given the keys in place of Tanner who performed somewhere between OK and very good as “the guy” depending on who you ask.

Similarly, Knuth and Viotto never had the opportunity behind AK.
 

matt said:
I don’t think this is a fair list. We do not know how Viramontes, Annexstad, or Clark would have done if they were given the keys in place of Tanner who performed somewhere between OK and very good as “the guy” depending on who you ask.

Similarly, Knuth and Viotto never had the opportunity behind AK.
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True, but the turnover rate at the position is alarming. It's like PJ anoints a starter and everyone else just leaves.
 

Bring back the Axe said:
True, but the turnover rate at the position is alarming. It's like PJ anoints a starter and everyone else just leaves.
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Days of guys waiting their turn on a roster seem to be a thing of the past. Can only play one QB at a time so not really sure what the coaches are supposed to do in order to keep the backups happy.

Coaches are going to play the QB they feel gives them the best chance to win. I know fans don't want to believe that and just want to assume the coaches are being idiots by not playing the other guys over the "hand picked" guy but the coaches need to win games so they aren't going to sit a QB they think is better than the guy they are starting.
 





Maybe we should switch to the triple option. Even if we find a good QB, with the way things go now he’ll transfer out for more money.
 

Triple D said:
First Kaliakmanis, then Viotto, and Kramer participated in Senior Day and may be done

Does this solely lie on Fleck or is there someone else in charge of QB recruiting misses?

It’s concerning for a B10 level team
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Like he says, "It's all on me."
 

btowngopher said:
Maybe we should switch to the triple option. Even if we find a good QB, with the way things go now he’ll transfer out for more money.
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Can the Gophs actually field enough RBs to run it?
 

A normal thing in college football going forward it appears. Quarterbacks want to quarterback.
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
And at his previous job, he inherited Terrell. So at this point, he's found and signed one guy who's a capable FBS QB over 11 seasons. Hell of a track record.
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Breakin' The Plane said:
but the point is taken. 7 years at MN and this regime has had 1 competent QB - and that guy even drove fans nuts with some of his limitations. (but - were they his limitations, or were the limitations imposed on him by the coaching staff? I wonder.....)
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This is the first year we were weak at QB. Yet you guys are griping as if Fleck is always weak at QB. This board is a cesspool after losses.

EDIT: The 2nd quote is from 'short ornery norwegian'. I don't know why it says they're both from 'Breakin' The Plane'.
 
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MNVCGUY said:
Newsflash because I guess you have missed it but this is the way of the world with QBs anymore. Look at how many transfer, very few teams are playing guys they developed at this point.

Wisconsin - Starter and backup this year were transfers (Mordecai/Locke)
Iowa - Starter and backup this year were transfers (MacNamera/Hill)
Illinois - Starter and backup this year were transfers (Altmyer/Paddock)
Purdue - Starter was a transfer don't know about backups (Card)
Northwestern - Starter was a transfer (Bryant)
Nebraska - Multiple transfer QBs on roster (Purdy/Sims)
Maryland - Tua is a transfer though he has been there multiple years
Indiana - had one transfer QB and one homegrown one but he is leaving (Sorsby)
Michigan - Backup QB was a transfer (Tuttle)

Our lack of transfer QBs coming in to this point was actually more of a rarity in the current college football landscape where QBs are shuffling all over the place these days.

So while it would be nice to just recruit a guy and have them stay their whole career those days seem to be fading into the background, especially where it comes to QBs
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Objective analysis and no emotional freaking out??? Are you high or something? :)
 

Word said:
Kill was even worse...it's not easy to find qbs I guess?
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Especially hard to find good dropback QBs when your team runs 70% of the time. With our predilection for running, we really should be going for dual threat type QBs who would help out the RBs and, perhaps, force defenses to play more zone against us—eyes on the QB—rather than man. We don’t seem to have the WRs to beat man coverage.
 
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I am not sure anyone is consistently good at QB evaluation. The blue blood schools sometimes get in bad position at QB and they have like 3-4 former top 20 recruits at the position to choose from.

I am disappointed with all the eggs being put in Athan's basket...not taking a QB in the class before him to entice him to commit was a mistake and really puts pressure on your evaluation.

I am also disappointed that no competition was ever brought in for Tanner Morgan after 2020 or at least after 2021. The three years of QB play post 2019 were not good.

We've also failed in recruiting QB's after Athan. Viotto was way, way down our list in his class. As others have mentioned, it's tough to recruit QB's when your offense resembles an Army or a Navy.

Everybody is going to miss far more often than they hit at QB, but we've certainly hurt our chances to succeed at the position by not taking enough swings at the position and running the offense we do.
 

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