If they played their NCAA games at home with home town cookin' they would have a shot. On the road in the NCAA-who knows?
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Which villain to cheer for?
- Thread starter cncmin
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If they played their NCAA games at home with home town cookin' they would have a shot. On the road in the NCAA-who knows?
This game really hit home the fact that the Gopher basketball program is far, far away from being elite. Tubby hasn't gotten the elite recruits like OSU and can't seem to improve the players he brings in like UW does.
They also haven't suffered the injuries and transfers that we have over the last year. We have had 3 transfers (Justin Cobbs, Paul Carter, Devoe Joseph), and 2 injuries (Mo Walker, Al Nolen). Of those 5 (3 of whom were point guards), 3 or 4 probably would have been major contributors on this team, as Justin Cobbs probably wouldn't get much playing time if we still had Al and Devoe here and healthy, and Mo was a promising freshman, but still just a freshman.
How would Ohio State look if they were missing their senior leader (Lighty), their primary true point guard (Craft), their freshman big man (Sullinger), and a forward (Lauderdale)? That would leave them with DeShaun Thomas, William Buford, and John Diebler out of their 7 man rotation. I realize you can't really equate the contributions of Walker with with those of Sullinger, but then I also only removed 4 OSU guys to the 5 that Minnesota has lost.
You can still see that they would be severely underhanded and would end up having to play guys who weren't supposed to play. They would not be #1 (or #2 or 3 after losing to Wisky), they wouldn't be running away with the conference title and would maybe be attempting to compete with Purdue and Wisconsin for it. They would probably be only as good as we are right now.
But they have been lucky enough to not suffer a single injury to their somewhat short rotation all season, and, like probably 95% of teams, has not had anyone transfer, much less 3 GUYS IN ONE YEAR.
This has been a disappointing year, but you can't blame it all on Tubby. A lot of teams would be in rough shape after what we've been through this year.
EDIT Oh yeah, forgot to metion that 5 star recruit Royce White left as well, he certainly could have helped.
They also haven't suffered the injuries and transfers that we have over the last year. We have had 3 transfers (Justin Cobbs, Paul Carter, Devoe Joseph), and 2 injuries (Mo Walker, Al Nolen). Of those 5 (3 of whom were point guards), 3 or 4 probably would have been major contributors on this team, as Justin Cobbs probably wouldn't get much playing time if we still had Al and Devoe here and healthy, and Mo was a promising freshman, but still just a freshman.
How would Ohio State look if they were missing their senior leader (Lighty), their primary true point guard (Craft), their freshman big man (Sullinger), and a forward (Lauderdale)? That would leave them with DeShaun Thomas, William Buford, and John Diebler out of their 7 man rotation. I realize you can't really equate the contributions of Walker with with those of Sullinger, but then I also only removed 4 OSU guys to the 5 that Minnesota has lost.
You can still see that they would be severely underhanded and would end up having to play guys who weren't supposed to play. They would not be #1 (or #2 or 3 after losing to Wisky), they wouldn't be running away with the conference title and would maybe be attempting to compete with Purdue and Wisconsin for it. They would probably be only as good as we are right now.
But they have been lucky enough to not suffer a single injury to their somewhat short rotation all season, and, like probably 95% of teams, has not had anyone transfer, much less 3 GUYS IN ONE YEAR.
This has been a disappointing year, but you can't blame it all on Tubby. A lot of teams would be in rough shape after what we've been through this year.
They don't have as many losses over the past year, but OSU hasn't been without injuries/roster turnover. The only reason Lighty is still around is he missed most of the '09 season due to injury. Greg Oden had the wrist on his shooting hand injured the whole year he played. Evan Turner missed several games last season due to injury. Currently Nikola Kecman has missed the whole season due to a knee injury. Eric Wallace, Anthony Crater, Zisis Sarikopoulos, and Walter Offutt are all guys who would be upperclassmen on this team if they had not transferred/left - maybe the depth situation is different if they didn't transfer. You could say they are missing the guys who would be their senior leader (Turner), primary true point guard (Crater), primary big man (Byron Mullens) and a forward (Kosta Koufos).
Wisconsin is the one team that doesn't lose anybody who matters early, that's why they have such great consistency every year. But the trade-off for getting the guys who fit their system is they don't get many of the most talented players and so they don't have enough talent across the board to go far in the NCAA tourney. They make the tourney every year because they do very well in the Kohl Center ... clearly they're much more beatable when they're not playing at the Kohl Center.
Wisconsin is the one team that doesn't lose anybody who matters early, that's why they have such great consistency every year. But the trade-off for getting the guys who fit their system is they don't get many of the most talented players and so they don't have enough talent across the board to go far in the NCAA tourney. They make the tourney every year because they do very well in the Kohl Center ... clearly they're much more beatable when they're not playing at the Kohl Center.
They have the best winning percentage on the road in the Big 10 since Ryan has been there. That is pretty good. It is true that 50% of the time is much more beatable then 90 plus % of the time, so I will give you that.
They don't have as many losses over the past year, but OSU hasn't been without injuries/roster turnover. The only reason Lighty is still around is he missed most of the '09 season due to injury. Greg Oden had the wrist on his shooting hand injured the whole year he played. Evan Turner missed several games last season due to injury. Currently Nikola Kecman has missed the whole season due to a knee injury. Eric Wallace, Anthony Crater, Zisis Sarikopoulos, and Walter Offutt are all guys who would be upperclassmen on this team if they had not transferred/left - maybe the depth situation is different if they didn't transfer. You could say they are missing the guys who would be their senior leader (Turner), primary true point guard (Crater), primary big man (Byron Mullens) and a forward (Kosta Koufos).
First O$U fans can't complain if kids leave due to lack of playing time. Matta clearly thinks its a video game or is unfamiliar with the idea of substitution patterns, either way there is nobody to blame except Matta for kids transferring due to lack of PT.
Second when you continue to recruit 5 star McDonald's All-Americans you shouldn't be surprised that they leave early for the NBA? That's part of the nature of recruiting that type of talent. Some school have become "one-and-done" schools and the 2 biggest are O$U and Kentucky. So that point it mute also.
Third, some teams are lucky when it come to injuries some teams aren't. On the whole O$U has been fairly lucky when it comes to injuries(if you want to go injury for injury over the past year I'm ready). Sure Greg Oden had a wrist injury, but he still played in the NC game didn't he, Lighty missed a year as well but that turned out pretty well(how much better is this years team with him), and I really doubt that Kecman would be getting serious minutes anyway looking at Thad's substitution patterns.
And finally if you are looking for sympathy from other fans about all that stuff you aren't going to find it. Part if it is O$U own doing, part of it is that you really aren't all that unlucky, and part of it is that O$U wins, a lot, and frankly its tough to feel sorry for a fan base that wins a lot.
First O$U fans can't complain if kids leave due to lack of playing time. Matta clearly thinks its a video game or is unfamiliar with the idea of substitution patterns, either way there is nobody to blame except Matta for kids transferring due to lack of PT.
Second when you continue to recruit 5 star McDonald's All-Americans you shouldn't be surprised that they leave early for the NBA? That's part of the nature of recruiting that type of talent. Some school have become "one-and-done" schools and the 2 biggest are O$U and Kentucky. So that point is moot also.
Third, some teams are lucky when it come to injuries some teams aren't. On the whole O$U has been fairly lucky when it comes to injuries(if you want to go injury for injury over the past year I'm ready). Sure Greg Oden had a wrist injury, but he still played in the NC game didn't he, Lighty missed a year as well but that turned out pretty well(how much better is this years team with him), and I really doubt that Kecman would be getting serious minutes anyway looking at Thad's substitution patterns.
And finally if you are looking for sympathy from other fans about all that stuff you aren't going to find it. Part if it is O$U own doing, part of it is that you really aren't all that unlucky, and part of it is that O$U wins, a lot, and frankly its tough to feel sorry for a fan base that wins a lot.
Agreed completely. I thought about posting a similar response, but you probably put it better than I could.
My brother, an Ohio State fan, was telling me about some article he read about how great Ohio State would be if all of their players had stayed for 4 years, seeing as most of their NC runner-up team (Connely, Oden, Koufos) would still be here seeing as it was heavily reliant on freshman all-stars IIRC. But when you're recruiting those top-15 guys, you can't honestly expect them to stay for 4 years. And then while Evan Turner was perhaps initially expected to be a 4 year guy, after the incredible season he had last year, I don't think anyone should have been surprised to see him go to the NBA.
It's like Kentucky saying "Poor pitiful us, all of our recruits leave after just one year, why does this always happen to us?"
Also, as for one-and-done schools, you might want to add Texas to Ohio State and Kentucky.
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"It's like Kentucky saying "Poor pitiful us, all of our recruits leave after just one year, why does this always happen to us?"
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DocfromDarwin
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Ya those traitors that left for Wisc. can lose anytime was Bo Ryan in Planet of the Apes!!!
I was introducing some facts into the discussion after there was a claim that OSU essentially did not have to deal with roster turnover/injuries. You can complain about the personnel losses the Gophers have had and wish they didn't happen, but don't ignore the losses of the other teams and claim that those other teams don't lose anybody.