Which QB do the Vikes draft?

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I wish I could be excited about the thought of our entire future hinging on the success of JJ McCarthy, but I can't. I'd be happy to be proven wrong but there's just nothing about him I see that makes me think we're looking at a future NFL star.
 

MplsGopher said:
“They have to draft a QB this year” is horse dung.

If they don’t in their heart of hearts think JJM is going to end up any better than Mac Jones — who also won a lot of games in college! — then absolutely do not waste further assets trading up for him.

If he falls to 11 fine.


I think this private workout is that sanity check and also subterfuge.
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I feel weird saying this but I agree completely. Drafting a QB just for the sake of drafting one is a horrible idea. If Kwesi and friends really are in love with JJ, so be it, but if we trade up and whiff on the pick it sets this franchise back a long ways.
 

I just really worry that KAM has either been told that, or he feels that, his job is on the line based on picking a QB this draft and that was the deal that was made in order to get rid of Kirk.

I mean, if that’s actually true, that KAM went to the Wilfs and execs last year/this year saying “guys, we have to get rid of Kirk and draft in 24, that’s my plan” …… then G-D right his job should be on the line.

But that’s such a stupid plan when we were never going to organically get a top 2 pick in 24 and Kirk could still easily have three MVP years left in him, the way he stays in line, takes care of himself, and does everything the right way.
 

TruthSeeker said:
I'm not anti-McCarthy, but Ws and Ls is not a good way to evaluate collegiate QBs.
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He even said that at the combine, judge me by what the team accomplished, not by my stats - hard pass for me.

Yoh JJ, nobody’s drafting the whole team.
 


Gophers1992 said:
I wish I could be excited about the thought of our entire future hinging on the success of JJ McCarthy, but I can't. I'd be happy to be proven wrong but there's just nothing about him I see that makes me think we're looking at a future NFL star.
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The more and more we see/experience that being QB in the NFL is about between the ears, the more I like a kid like McCarthy. I think he's going to be great, I really do.

I have concerns, albeit small ones, about Caleb's maturity, the whole Dad thing, and he's still just 6-1, plays like he's 5-10 sometimes, he's a "good" athlete but certainly not a great athlete. Maybe it's nothing, but I certainly don't see what is being thrown around by so many, the dreaded "generational" term. I saw an analysis lately that said he's a whole lot more Russell Wilson than he is Patrick Mahomes, and there's nothing wrong with that but it doesn't scream first ballot HOF.

And he looked like a rockstar while playing in the same conference with really, really subpar shitty defenses as Penix did, the PAC-12, which last season didn't have a defense ranked in the TOP 50 of FBS. Last season, he played against two decent teams for the most part, Oregon and Notre Dame, and he lost both games, and looked like complete shit against ND, throwing 1TD and 3 INT

It will be interesting to see how those first 4-5 picks play out. I was listening to some people the other day say that there's a chance that the Bears could actually be interested in taking one of the other QB's like Daniels or Maye at #1 overall, but the blowback and nuclear meltdown if they happen to MISS will be too much for them to consider and they'll take the player everyone expects them to take.
 

Ogee Ogilthorpe said:
The more and more we see/experience that being QB in the NFL is about between the ears, the more I like a kid like McCarthy. I think he's going to be great, I really do.

I have concerns, albeit small ones, about Caleb's maturity, the whole Dad thing, and he's still just 6-1, plays like he's 5-10 sometimes, he's a "good" athlete but certainly not a great athlete. Maybe it's nothing, but I certainly don't see what is being thrown around by so many, the dreaded "generational" term. I saw an analysis lately that said he's a whole lot more Russell Wilson than he is Patrick Mahomes, and there's nothing wrong with that but it doesn't scream first ballot HOF.

And he looked like a rockstar while playing in the same conference with really, really subpar shitty defenses as Penix did, the PAC-12, which last season didn't have a defense ranked in the TOP 50 of FBS. Last season, he played against two decent teams for the most part, Oregon and Notre Dame, and he lost both games, and looked like complete shit against ND, throwing 1TD and 3 INT

It will be interesting to see how those first 4-5 picks play out. I was listening to some people the other day say that there's a chance that the Bears could actually be interested in taking one of the other QB's like Daniels or Maye at #1 overall, but the blowback and nuclear meltdown if they happen to MISS will be too much for them to consider and they'll take the player everyone expects them to take.
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I get what you're saying, and I don't totally disagree, but I also think there's a long line of guys who have it between the ears but their physical shortcomings don't really let us get to see that on display. It's also hard for us as fans who just watch the games to know if McCarthy has it between the ears. Only time will tell.

FWIW I'm not 100% sold on Williams either. Would I take him at #1? Yeah probably, but to me he's not in that "can't miss" territory that guys like Andrew Luck and Trevor Lawrence were in.
 

Gophers1992 said:
I get what you're saying, and I don't totally disagree, but I also think there's a long line of guys who have it between the ears but their physical shortcomings don't really let us get to see that on display. It's also hard for us as fans who just watch the games to know if McCarthy has it between the ears. Only time will tell.

FWIW I'm not 100% sold on Williams either. Would I take him at #1? Yeah probably, but to me he's not in that "can't miss" territory that guys like Andrew Luck and Trevor Lawrence were in.
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Im glad bears are picking him
 

Gophers1992 said:
I wish I could be excited about the thought of our entire future hinging on the success of JJ McCarthy, but I can't. I'd be happy to be proven wrong but there's just nothing about him I see that makes me think we're looking at a future NFL star.
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1.) JJ excels at passes 0 - 20 yards in the middle of the field...easily one of the best in college.

2.) He is well below average when forced to throw outside the hashes or the ball down field more than 20+ yards.

3.) His deep balls lose air on the back end of the throw allowing defenders to recover.

4.) His arm is deemed as "adequate" for the NFL but far from a strength. (Same with Montana so there is that.)

5.) He seems to have great leadership skills and very mature for his age.

6.) Played in a "read first" offense meaning his throw was pre-determined on nearly every play.

7.) When the first read wasn't there, he struggled assessing his other options and often forced the ball into small windows.

8.) Protected by one of the best OL's in all of college football but also has very good pocket presence and athletic ability to scramble.

9.) Surrounded by skill position talent that covered up for poor passes by WR's breaking them up or making a spectacular catch.

10.) Had an incredible defense that effectively limited scoring and repeatedly got him the ball back in positive territory.

Will JJ be a stud or dud? I have no fricken' clue...I'm just a recliner scout. From what I've watched of him, trading the equivalent of at least three (3) 1st Round picks to draft him while DEN can stay at 12 to get Penix/Nix without trading a thing, I just don't see talent gap between these QB's that warrants paying this cost.

I'd say the odds of us moving up to grab him or Maye are at least 90% or better, though. Hope I'm dead wrong about JJ if that happens.
 



Some different opinions about what it will take to move up to #3:

The Vikings take a massive swing in a trade up to No. 3 in the latest beat writer mock draft from The Athletic.

In a move that would certainly send shockwaves across the sport, The Athletic's Alec Lewis and Chad Graff, who cover the Vikings and Patriots, respectively (and Graff used to cover the Vikings), put together a mock trade that sees the Vikings giving up picks 11 and 23 in this year's draft as well as a 2025 first-round pick AND a 2026 second-round pick for New England's No. 3 overall pick.

Looking at recent mock drafts that have the Vikings moving up to No. 3, here's what they have as potential trade packages:

CBS Sports' Chris Trapasso said "The Vikings didn't make a move to get No. 23 overall to just sit on their hands now. They make a move -- and maybe even package a mid-rounder in 2025 -- to get this pick to land Maye."

Devin Jackson of The Philadelphia Inquirer and Dan Roche of NBC Sports Philadelphia have the Vikings packaging picks No. 11 and 23 with a 2025 third-rounder for the No. 3 pick. That seems like too little considering the 49ers traded three first-round picks and a third-rounder to take Trey Lance third overall in 2021.

Nate Davis of USA Today suggests it would take Nos. 11 and 23 plus "multiple mid-round picks in 2025" to seal the trade. Davis says the price is drawn down from the recent real-world trades because the Vikings can offer two first-round picks this season instead of future first-round picks.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
There are things that matter more for sure, but he knows how to win and that matters too.
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Honestly, I think it's almost totally irrelevant.

You can look up and down the list of starting QBs in the NFL last season, both good and bad. Bad ones were huge winners. Good ones were losers.

Mahomes was something like 13-16 in college. That's pathetic.

Josh Allen was 16-11. That's not great either.

Justin Fields was a 20-2.

Mac Jones was 15-1 and has a Natty as a starter.

Tua was 22-2.

Jared Goff was 14-23. Terrible record.
 




TruthSeeker said:
Honestly, I think it's almost totally irrelevant.

You can look up and down the list of starting QBs in the NFL last season, both good and bad. Bad ones were huge winners. Good ones were losers.

Mahomes was something like 13-16 in college. That's pathetic.

Josh Allen was 16-11. That's not great either.

Justin Fields was a 20-2.

Mac Jones was 15-1 and has a Natty as a starter.

Tua was 22-2.

Jared Goff was 14-23. Terrible record.
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You're going to look silly when Stetson Bennett is enshrined in Canton.
 

Gophers1992 said:
Knowing how to win = playing for the best team in the country.
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Michigan has always had a ton of talent, but couldn't win a natty until JJ came along.

Gophers1992 said:
You're going to look silly when Stetson Bennett is enshrined in Canton.
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Bennett doesn't have the physical traits that JJ does, which matters more than winning.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Michigan has always had a ton of talent, but couldn't win a natty until JJ came along.



Bennett doesn't have the physical traits that JJ does, which matters more than winning.
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I'm not suggesting that McCarthy didn't play a role in winning that title, I'm just saying it's not an indicator of any future NFL success (see ThruthSeeker's numerous examples). McCarthy's mistakes were also one of the biggest reasons Michigan lost to a vastly inferior TCU team the year before.
 

Gophers1992 said:
I'm not suggesting that McCarthy didn't play a role in winning that title, I'm just saying it's not an indicator of any future NFL success (see ThruthSeeker's numerous examples). McCarthy's mistakes were also one of the biggest reasons Michigan lost to a vastly inferior TCU team the year before.
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It's more about the winning at the age he's done it than just the winning. He helped win Michigan a title for the first time in 26 years, at age 20.

The only others I can think of that were similar at that age were Hurts/Tua. But they had even better offensive talent around them than JJ did. They are both pretty good NFL QBs today, but I think JJ is a better passing QB than both.
 


Gophers1992 said:
I'm not suggesting that McCarthy didn't play a role in winning that title, I'm just saying it's not an indicator of any future NFL success (see ThruthSeeker's numerous examples). McCarthy's mistakes were also one of the biggest reasons Michigan lost to a vastly inferior TCU team the year before.
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Michigan had a great running game. They didn’t need JJM to win any games for them.
 

MplsGopher said:
Michigan had a great running game. They didn’t need JJM to win any games for them.
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In either the semifinal or final, they ran it like 20+ times in a row at one point.

Who knew, handoffs qualified you to be a first rounder🤔
 



MplsGopher said:
Well … you did.

You said winning matters. They won because they handed the ball off.
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While I disagree with GWG on some of the content of this thread, he in no way said, or even implied, what you are claiming he said. Let's keep this conversation at least somewhat intelligent here.
 

Gophers1992 said:
he in no way said, or even implied, what you are claiming he said.
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Agree he did not say or imply that handing the ball off makes you qualified to be a first rounder.

But he did say winning games makes you qualified.

And they won games because they handed the ball off.

I don’t think we’re doing rocket science here.
 

Gophers1992 said:
While I disagree with GWG on some of the content of this thread, he in no way said, or even implied, what you are claiming he said. Let's keep this conversation at least somewhat intelligent here.
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That's why it's pointless to engage with mpls on any topic. There is no intelligence there.
 


MplsGopher said:
Agree he did not say or imply that handing the ball off makes you qualified to be a first rounder.

But he did say winning games makes you qualified.

And they won games because they handed the ball off.

I don’t think we’re doing rocket science here.
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I mean you know what you're doing, but to take it one step further, he also never said winning games makes you qualified to be a first round pick. He simply cited it as evidence of McCarthy's abilities. Do I agree with him on how relevant it is? No, but at least be genuine in your arguments.
 

They didn’t win because of him, nor did they lose because of him.
 

Slim Tubby said:
1.) JJ excels at passes 0 - 20 yards in the middle of the field...easily one of the best in college.

2.) He is well below average when forced to throw outside the hashes or the ball down field more than 20+ yards.

3.) His deep balls lose air on the back end of the throw allowing defenders to recover.

4.) His arm is deemed as "adequate" for the NFL but far from a strength. (Same with Montana so there is that.)

5.) He seems to have great leadership skills and very mature for his age.

6.) Played in a "read first" offense meaning his throw was pre-determined on nearly every play.

7.) When the first read wasn't there, he struggled assessing his other options and often forced the ball into small windows.

8.) Protected by one of the best OL's in all of college football but also has very good pocket presence and athletic ability to scramble.

9.) Surrounded by skill position talent that covered up for poor passes by WR's breaking them up or making a spectacular catch.

10.) Had an incredible defense that effectively limited scoring and repeatedly got him the ball back in positive territory.

Will JJ be a stud or dud? I have no fricken' clue...I'm just a recliner scout. From what I've watched of him, trading the equivalent of at least three (3) 1st Round picks to draft him while DEN can stay at 12 to get Penix/Nix without trading a thing, I just don't see talent gap between these QB's that warrants paying this cost.

I'd say the odds of us moving up to grab him or Maye are at least 90% or better, though. Hope I'm dead wrong about JJ if that happens.
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The deep ball issue makes the Vikings love for him odd. KOC likes to throw deep.
 

Now I'll be clear, I think McCarthy ends up a Viking, and while I may not agree with it, I'll put my full fan support behind him and nothing would make me happier than to come back to this thread and say I was dead wrong.
 

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