Where would you rank Fleck in the new Big Ten West coaching pecking order

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If you take the overall package of a coach into consideration - recruiting, game day management, player development, etc., where would you rank our guy Fleck with the revamped Big Ten West coaching ladder?

Obviously we don't know how Rhule or Fickell will do in their new roles and recruiting territories, but still interesting to see where Fleck stacks up.

Ironically, as I look at the BTW vs BTE, I think the West now has better coaches top to bottom, the BTE just has a few helmet schools that cover up a lot of coaching inadequacies.

I would go:

1. Bielema - I can't stand the guy, but he's proven he can win and recruit and I think if he stays at Illinois he'll build them into a regular atop the BTW.

2. Luke Fickell - He took Cinci to the CFP for gosh sakes. Whether he can build the same success at uw remains to be seen, but hard not to admire his combination of recruiting and coaching.

3. Kirk Ferentz - steady eddie and a long term coach. No idea how much he has left, but he's the Dean of Big Ten Coaches and his combo works and works consistently.

4. Matt Rhule - hard to know how the fit will be, but he's already turned around two very different geographical programs in Temple and Baylor. The blueprint is there, even if Nebraska isn't what it used to be.

5. Pat Fitzgerald - Few coaches in America do more with less and while they have wild swings in success, fricking NW has won the West twice in the last 5 years. Next year they need to move back up the standings, but this guy has a formula that works.

6. PJ Fleck - his ranking isn't a slight as I love the guy. But this is a tough list to compare him to. Recruiting isn't as good nationally as I expected and his in-game decisions have been below average at times, but I think his player development has been good. I hope he's here for a long time and I hope we can confidently move him up this list.

7. Jeff Brohm - again, not a slight and I realize he's in the BT title game this week. But it's just a tough group of coaches ahead of him.
 


MNVCGUY said:
I think that like the teams in the West there isn't much separation between the coaches in the West either. Solid group from top to bottom.
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I think that’s true of the entire big ten.
I’m not solid on Allen might be the only one.
Fitzgerald, I think his time has passed at that spot but is a really good coach.
 




Was thinking about this last night. Really only Allen and Tucker that I think are separated. Maybe Franklin too. But the rest are all good coaches. I don't know that I can give a solid opinion on Rhule though. B1G is another animal compared to what he has done.
 

If this is based on current abilities rather than track record I'd put him above Fitz for sure, probably Ferentz, and probably Rhule. Bielema is close. This could be done a lot of different ways, but if I had to I'd go:

Fickell
Bielema
PJ
Rhule
Ferentz
Brohm
Fitz
 

I'm taking this question from a nuanced angle. What coaches, ranked, would I want coaching at Minnesota which has its own unique factors?

1. PJ Fleck. Along with coaching experience and competence, Minnesota needs differentiation of some sort to get recruits. Fleck brings this in spades. Fleck does need to figure out his Iowa problem.

2. Ferentz. The guy is proven and very good. His limitations will always be that offense. Oh that offense.

3. Bielema. Obviously a good coach who's a decent recruiter and values a strong run game with a good defense, winning combinations in the great white north (and I like). He had a very good team this year that lost to Indiana and Michigan State (among others). His Arkansas teams sucked. I'm not ready to crown him. He could eventually prove to be the best of this group.

4. Pat Fitzgerald. A very good coach historically that seems to have lost his team as of late. Northwestern is building a Taj Mahal for football players. He'll figure it out.

5. Brohm. Proven he can (mostly) win in the BG10 and backed into a 3-loss West title with an easy schedule. I feel 3 BG10 losses is Brohm's peak.

6. Fickell. This guy did at Cincinnati what PJ Fleck already did at Western Michigan six years ago with an inferior program. He could be great in the BG10. We'll see. It's a different animal.

7. Matt Rhule. A proven college program builder with NFL chops but unproven at maintaining a Power 5 program with his own guys. I did enjoy watching his Baylor team in 2019. If he wins marginally at Nebraska, I bet he jumps. That's his M.O.
 




Thought about this this morning. School plays such a role in things. Fleck did at Western Michigan what Fickell has done at Cincinati. Will Fickell do the same at Wisconsin. Rhule burns it down at each school his first year. Will he need to do that at Nebraska and will he be allowed to do that. Selling 7 years without a bowl will be hard.

I really think that the West is a lump of solid coaches who all have their own identity and try to develop talent. If I'm hiring a coach I would do it in this order at this time.

1. Bielema (Proven track record of developing players and winning)
2. Fickell (6 really good years at G5, shows he can build a program)
3. Fleck (Knows how to build a balanced roster at MN)
4.. Brohm (Seems to have found a home and is comfortable)
5. Rhule (Never stayed at a school more than 3-4 years)
6. Ferentz (Just not a fan)
7. Fitzgerald (Not evolving)

(However, after doing this exercise it really is a coin toss right now.)

In the end I still like our coach.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Thought about this this morning. School plays such a role in things. Fleck did at Western Michigan what Fickell has done at Cincinati. Will Fickell do the same at Wisconsin. Rhule burns it down at each school his first year. Will he need to do that at Nebraska and will he be allowed to do that. Selling 7 years without a bowl will be hard.

I really think that the West is a lump of solid coaches who all have their own identity and try to develop talent. If I'm hiring a coach I would do it in this order at this time.

1. Bielema (Proven track record of developing players and winning)
2. Fickell (6 really good years at G5, shows he can build a program)
3. Fleck (Knows how to build a balanced roster at MN)
4.. Brohm (Seems to have found a home and is comfortable)
5. Rhule (Never stayed at a school more than 3-4 years)
6. Ferentz (Just not a fan)
7. Fitzgerald (Not evolving)

(However, after doing this exercise it really is a coin toss right now.)

In the end I still like our coach.
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Really hard to compare.
Guys I would want to run my offense:
1) Brohm
2) fleck (it’s a wonder the west never scores…only 2 offensive coaches in the division)
3) Ferentz

Guys I would want to run my defense:
1) Ferentz’ d coordinator
2) beilema
3) Rhule
4) Fitzgerald
5) Fickell (he might be the best but I’m not convinced the 4-2-5 is the answer in the west)
 

Anywhere from 3-7 depending on my mood lol. I’d put Bret and Kirk above because of what they’ve accomplished in the B10. Not that I’m in love with either but they have both accomplishment a lot more in the B10 than any of the others
 

For me, Rhule and Fickell are incomplete until they've coached in the conference. If this same question had been asked on Dec 2, 2017, a lot of people would have ranked Scott Frost #1 in the West Division, coming off of a 13-0 season at UCF.
 



Tough to rank guys who haven’t proved themselves in a top conference. Coaches who have get rated higher by me, so here it goes:

Ferentz - guy does it consistently. Just needs to fire his son.
Bielema - knows how to win in B1G which is obviously different than the SEC.
Fleck - if he could just figure out when not to go for it and take the points he would do better.
Fitz - imagine if he had better players!
Brohm - guy coaches a well oiled passing team but he leaves himself susceptible to inexcusable losses.
Rhule - he has done well in the Big 12 in the past and he should be able to get good players at Nebby.
Fickell - i like this hire for Whisky. Going from the American to the B1G should be a nightmare for this guy. Feels like Frost 2.0!

That’s the way i see it! I imagine the Badger fans will feel fickle about their HC choice after next season!
 

This is an incredibly speculative and theoretical post based on few facts, not adjusted at all for current situation and team, and giving huge weight to “what’s behind door #2” over the new car sitting right in front of the player.
 

gopherbadgerman said:
Anywhere from 3-7 depending on my mood lol. I’d put Bret and Kirk above because of what they’ve accomplished in the B10. Not that I’m in love with either but they have both accomplishment a lot more in the B10 than any of the others
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I think Bret a bit overrated right now.
He went 8-4 (5-4) with a roster he didn’t recruit or were 1 year stop gaps like the QB.


He won the big ten with the machine wisconsin he inherited combined with Ohio state, penn state, and Michigan all being down or on sanctions at the same time.

He was 11-29 in conference at Arkansas. His best year was year 3 with the old coach’s players.


I think he is a good coach. But I think 2022 Illinois is closer to 2021 Michigan state than it is to 2006-2009 wisconsin.
 

Outside of the inherited machine at wisco Biels has a losing record in 7 seasons as a head coach.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
Outside of the inherited machine at wisco Biels has a losing record in 7 seasons as a head coach.
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And this isn’t me saying he is a bad coach. I’m just not ready to crown Illinois perennial contenders in the conference
 

a lot of subjective factors go into this type of list.

not a ranking, but observations:

for me: can't put Fleck ahead of Ferentz until he beats Ferentz at least once. Same with Bielema.

I think Fitz is a really good coach who has to overcome a lot of restrictions, academic and otherwise.

Brohm has a system and he sticks to it, good or bad. give him enough talent on offense and he knows what to do with it.

Fickell - who knows how his system will work at WI, but I think he'll be able to get some athletes to look at WI who might not have been interested under the old regime.

Ruhle - success at the college level, but flamed out in the NFL. will have to re-establish his credentials on the recruiting trail with kids who now think of him as "that guy who bombed with the Panthers."
 

I'd wait to rank Fickell and Rhule, because we've seen in the past that coaching and being successful in one conference doesn't always translate.

Prime example might be Bret Bielema. He had a great career at Wisconsin, went to Arkansas and tanked, didn't coach college for a few years, and now is back in the B1G at Illinois and seemingly getting back on track to have a good career there.

Rhule has gotten 2 different schools into the top 25 before, but never stayed the following season to prove he can maintain that. Plus I would argue the B1G will be the toughest conference he's coached in (especially since after next year divisions are going away and UCLA and USC are joining so matchups against the top teams in the conference will probably be more frequent for all current west division schools).

Fickell is a bit more proven, sorta. He had that 1 year interim stint at Ohio State, in which they went 6-7, but more recently he's proven he can take at least 1 team into the top 25 and stay there, however that was playing in the AAC, so the conference competition is probably way lower than in the B1G on average. In the last 4 bowl games he brought Cincinnati to, he never won one against an opponent with more than 6 wins, losing the 2 most recent (although those 2 most recent were vs Georgia and Alabama). This year, only 2 of his wins were over teams with more than 6 wins.

So, I'd say it's a bit early to rank them against other west division coaches.
 

I put Fleck last. He's not a good game manager and his offenses are offensive. He is too caught up in all those cliches. Should not have kept Athan on the bench most of the year. Just don't think he's that bright.
 

Gophers1992 said:
If this is based on current abilities rather than track record I'd put him above Fitz for sure, probably Ferentz, and probably Rhule. Bielema is close. This could be done a lot of different ways, but if I had to I'd go:

Fickell
Bielema
PJ
Rhule
Ferentz
Brohm
Fitz
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Very interesting take, certainly listing Ferentz below PJ when he's 6-0 head to head... I'm really not sure what PJ has done for you to list him that high.
 


Some guy said:
I think Bret a bit overrated right now.
He went 8-4 (5-4) with a roster he didn’t recruit or were 1 year stop gaps like the QB.


He won the big ten with the machine wisconsin he inherited combined with Ohio state, penn state, and Michigan all being down or on sanctions at the same time.

He was 11-29 in conference at Arkansas. His best year was year 3 with the old coach’s players.


I think he is a good coach. But I think 2022 Illinois is closer to 2021 Michigan state than it is to 2006-2009 wisconsin.
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I kind of agree. Bielema is really tough to pin down because he stepped into a great spot at Wisconsin, and a very difficult one at Arkansas. His Illinois story has a lot left to be written. I think people are giving him a lot of credit because they've beaten us the last 2 years.
 

If I must to generate a response on why you did what you did on your list; here we go

I'm going to rate them strictly based on what 'I think' are their coaching abilities, versus ancillary reasons.

Fickell
Bielema
Rhule/Ferentz
Brohm/PJ
Fitz

PJ to me is the #1 motivator of the group and I really think he get's the most out of his players because of that, BUT his in game decisions and game planning 'input' are where he (IMO), drops down the list considerably.
 
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DanvilleGopher said:
If I must to generate a response on why you did what you did on your list; here we go

I'm going to rate them strictly based on what 'I think' are their coaching abilities, versus ancillary reasons.

Fickell
Bielema
Rhule/Ferentz
Brohm/PJ
Fitz

PJ to me is the #1 motivator of the group and I really think he get's the most out of his players, BUT his in game decisions and game planning 'input' are where he (IMO), drops him down the list considerably.
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I don't think that's a terrible order you have. I put more weight on who I would want now and going forward vs. body of work, which is where Ferentz takes a bit of a hit. H2H is a data point, but it gets tricky if you want to put too much weight on that - if we put too much emphasis on H2H then Brom should be ahead of Ferentz, who should be ahead of PJ, who should be ahead of Brohm, etc.

I also tend to think Ferentz owes a lot of his success, especially in recent years, to Phil Parker.
 

1-Ferentz (he's #1 until someone knocks him off)
2-PJ
3-Brohm
4-Bielema (one 8-4 season is no reason to crown him.)
5-Fitzgerald (still like him, but the shine is coming off)

TBD-Fickell-Attempting to rank him when he hasn't done anything is silly IMO. He could be the second coming of Barry Alvarez or the second coming of Gary Andersen.
TBD-Rhule-See above
 

howeda7 said:
1-Ferentz (he's #1 until someone knocks him off)
2-PJ
3-Brohm
4-Bielema (one 8-4 season is no reason to crown him.)
5-Fitzgerald (still like him, but the shine is coming off)

TBD-Fickell-Attempting to rank him when he hasn't done anything is silly IMO. He could be the second coming of Barry Alvarez or the second coming of Gary Andersen.
TBD-Rhule-See above
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True Fickell's done nothing in the B1G, but he did take Cincy to the 4 team playoff just last year so you can't not take that into consideration.

He'd have a statue built if he'd done that here.
 

DanvilleGopher said:
True Fickell's done nothing in the B1G, but he did take Cincy to the 4 team playoff just last year so you can't not take that into consideration.

He'd have a statue built if he'd done that here.
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Yes. And Scott Frost won a Natty. Still flopped in the B1G.
 

Halsey Hall said:
I put Fleck last. He's not a good game manager and his offenses are offensive. He is too caught up in all those cliches. Should not have kept Athan on the bench most of the year. Just don't think he's that bright.
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Well, he's never finished last and has recently finished T-1, 4th, T-2, T-2 over the last 4 years so he's either way surpassed your expectations or you're just trolling. You really can't have it both ways with your analysis and his results.

Go Gophers!!
 

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