When does the seat become hot?

Saying this team is a tournament team next year is nonsense. This team will never make an NCAA tourney game under Whalen. Anyone with any sizeable amount of coaching experience knows this is true. It's foolish to keep expecting things to change. Time to hire a qualified coach - before more players transfer.
Players will transfer if we hire a great coach. Look at UM Volleyball. Even though they hired a great coach and have excellent players returning, two blue-chip players transferred. The players didn't want to stick around to see what the new coach can do. They opted to become free agents and transferred to two of the highest ranking programs. We are likely to lose women basketball players whether or not we hire a new coach. Some players came because of Whalen and her staff and will leave, and others will look for winning programs or more playing time. It is the nature of today's game and rules. Unfortunately, the program is not attractive enough to land an impact player from the transfer portal. And, UM will not be able to hire a big named coach who will be a magnet. The new coach will likely have to grow into the job like Whalen.
 

Players will transfer if we hire a great coach. Look at UM Volleyball. Even though they hired a great coach and have excellent players returning, two blue-chip players transferred. The players didn't want to stick around to see what the new coach can do. They opted to become free agents and transferred to two of the highest ranking programs. We are likely to lose women basketball players whether or not we hire a new coach. Some players came because of Whalen and her staff and will leave, and others will look for winning programs or more playing time. It is the nature of today's game and rules. Unfortunately, the program is not attractive enough to land an impact player from the transfer portal. And, UM will not be able to hire a big named coach who will be a magnet. The new coach will likely have to grow into the job like Whalen.
I hope Hart will be an impact transfer, but I thought Oberg would be. I think Oberg is not aggressive enough and not fleet afoot enough. She has nice touch with the ball.
 

Saying this team is a tournament team next year is nonsense. This team will never make an NCAA tourney game under Whalen. Anyone with any sizeable amount of coaching experience knows this is true. It's foolish to keep expecting things to change. Time to hire a qualified coach - before more players transfer.
Dang please don’t tell my athletes that I coach I don’t have sizable coaching experience they might frown on that. Make sure you tell all the current Gopher athletes that they will never make a tournament under Whalen too.
 

Minnesota hired a coach with zero coaching experience. They are going to give her the proper time to get her poop in a group.

The Michigan game was bad. However there has been good games and things that excite me about this group.

There were not team players on the team last year. Those girls staying may have helped the teAm be .500 however I think they also could have done damage for this freshman class. I am still saying that they are a tournament team next year. If that doesn’t happen. Then maybe it’s time to START thinking about a change. In college there tends to be a ton of growth between freshman and sophomore year. I think both Rose and Maggie have shown that. If this group improves and the post depth becomes better (On the court) I believe in Whalen. I believe she has learned a lot in the last 5 seasons and will start putting it together,
If we make 0 tournaments in 6 years, it's time to "start" thinking about a change? I want to have you as a boss!
 



Players will transfer if we hire a great coach. Look at UM Volleyball. Even though they hired a great coach and have excellent players returning, two blue-chip players transferred. The players didn't want to stick around to see what the new coach can do. They opted to become free agents and transferred to two of the highest ranking programs. We are likely to lose women basketball players whether or not we hire a new coach. Some players came because of Whalen and her staff and will leave, and others will look for winning programs or more playing time. It is the nature of today's game and rules. Unfortunately, the program is not attractive enough to land an impact player from the transfer portal. And, UM will not be able to hire a big named coach who will be a magnet. The new coach will likely have to grow into the job like Whalen.
If we hire a great coach, the players will transfer IN, not OUT. Look at what Shauna Green has done at Illinois. Players followed her to Illinois from Dayton, and now they are in the top half of the conference. Whalen has lost all of her recruits from the 2018, 2019, 2020 classes and they seem to be successful at other schools - not to mention that their game knowledge and skills have improved. There are countless number of great coaches out their that can attract immediate talent and would enjoy a $500K salary.
 

If we hire a great coach, the players will transfer IN, not OUT. Look at what Shauna Green has done at Illinois. Players followed her to Illinois from Dayton, and now they are in the top half of the conference. Whalen has lost all of her recruits from the 2018, 2019, 2020 classes and they seem to be successful at other schools - not to mention that their game knowledge and skills have improved. There are countless number of great coaches out their that can attract immediate talent and would enjoy a $500K salary.

I'll add that Green's base salary at Illinois is $800K.
 

If we make 0 tournaments in 6 years, it's time to "start" thinking about a change? I want to have you as a boss!
Knowing I hired a person with zero experience I would have to know it was a process.

If you think I am not frustrated you’re wrong. I want nothing more than to be a top 25 team again. However it’s not that easy. The point of hiring Whalen was to have a program grow around her, it’s taking long then any of us hoped. Whalen wants to win. I have questioned some of her assistant coaching hires, since she has not brought a defensive minded coach. The team she has now seems to be enjoying each other. Winning teams have culture and culture takes a long time to establish.


However in the business world of college hoops wbb isn’t a revenue producing sport. Therefore the emphasis they are going to put to making sure it’s a winning program is questionable. If Whalen can create a winning program she is at Minnesota to stay. Whalen herself had 3 coaches in 4 years. Whalen can bring stability. Those teams were successful because Whalen held them together. She is a very competitive person. That’s something that’s always been a part of her. Whalen herself also didn’t make an ncaa tournament her freshman year. Not sure how the rest of her career went?!?!?
 

If we make 0 tournaments in 6 years, it's time to "start" thinking about a change? I want to have you as a boss!
We have made two WNIT tournaments in the last four years (1 NCAA in last 6). Yes, there are no NCAA bids under Whalen. We lost in the second round of the WNIT in both years. Last year, we had the bad luck to draw South Dakota State in the second round and they won the whole tournament. Bad luck because the region was based on geography and the Gophers could have matched up well against other teams. South Dakota State beat Seton Hall in the finals by 32 points but the Gophers by 21. So, it hasn't been as bad as we think. Do I think they are going to make a tournament this year. No.

It is sad we put demands on coaches and players to be at the top of their fields. Most of us are just average in our fields. Many of us would be fired if our bosses used the same criteria as we put on coaches and players.
 



We have made two WNIT tournaments in the last four years (1 NCAA in last 6). Yes, there are no NCAA bids under Whalen. We lost in the second round of the WNIT in both years. Last year, we had the bad luck to draw South Dakota State in the second round and they won the whole tournament. Bad luck because the region was based on geography and the Gophers could have matched up well against other teams. South Dakota State beat Seton Hall in the finals by 32 points but the Gophers by 21. So, it hasn't been as bad as we think. Do I think they are going to make a tournament this year. No.

It is sad we put demands on coaches and players to be at the top of their fields. Most of us are just average in our fields. Many of us would be fired if our bosses used the same criteria as we put on coaches and players.
Maybe that's why your not the boss or an A employee.
 


I agree that we need to get into the NIL. Not sure I agree with the rest of it. Her teams seem to be getting worse year after year. We had legitimate coaches who wanted the Men's position. Young coaches that kick ass at smaller schools and/or conferences are more than willing to come to a BIG and get their chance.

A lot of people seem tired of PJ, and I'm not a fan of the rah, rah, rah coaches, but he gets shit done. 3 of the past 4 seasons have been 9+ wins. When does that happen? The fact that some people are disappointed shows we had some bad losses, and we did. But he was a MAC coach. Urban Meyer was a coach at Utah. I know these are football, but they are out there, we just have to do a better job at identifying, and then going out to get them, which we suck at.

The end of the day, Coyle has to do better. I was a fan of the Whalen hire when it happened. She has been successful at everything she has tried. It just doesn't seem like she is going to be successful here. I hope I'm wrong...
She was a great player, but she isn't a coach. She should've stayed with Coach Reeves for a few more years and then maybe strike it out on her own, but right into the big chair after playing was not the smart move by Coyle.
 

We have made two WNIT tournaments in the last four years (1 NCAA in last 6). Yes, there are no NCAA bids under Whalen. We lost in the second round of the WNIT in both years. Last year, we had the bad luck to draw South Dakota State in the second round and they won the whole tournament. Bad luck because the region was based on geography and the Gophers could have matched up well against other teams. South Dakota State beat Seton Hall in the finals by 32 points but the Gophers by 21. So, it hasn't been as bad as we think. Do I think they are going to make a tournament this year. No.

It is sad we put demands on coaches and players to be at the top of their fields. Most of us are just average in our fields. Many of us would be fired if our bosses used the same criteria as we put on coaches and players.
Is this a serious response? We lose in a sub-par tournament in the second round by 21 points and "it hasn't been as bad as we think."

With whatever respect is due to you, that is a crazy take. The only tournament that our goal should be is to make is the NCAA. When we lose early in the a tournament that is not the NCAA by 21 points, it's pretty bad. Especially when we don't even make the sub-par tournament in most years.

I honestly believe that Coach Whalen would agree with that. Her goal has to be to make it to the final four and play for a national championship. If that is not her goal, she should not be a coach. That should be every big conference coach's goal. She played in a Final Four and Final Eight, she knows how important that is and can be to a program.
 



It is sad we put demands on coaches and players to be at the top of their fields. Most of us are just average in our fields. Many of us would be fired if our bosses used the same criteria as we put on coaches and players.
First, we don't put that on all coaches, just the ones making six or seven figure salaries in one of the popular sports. I don't think any softball or baseball or track coach, etc. feels demands like you are saying. Same for coaches not in P5 conferences.

Secondly, people in private industry DO get fired for not meeting tough expectations. If you're the CTO of Target, for example, and you let the website slip and lose sales to Walmart, you're getting fired and someone else is going to come in and try and get the website back to the top. If you're coming up with promotional fast food items that don't sell, you're getting replaced by someone else, etc.

Are there many jobs like I just described, no, there are some. Just like there are only some coaches with high demands, while there are thousands who aren't held to a really high standard.
 

First, we don't put that on all coaches, just the ones making six or seven figure salaries in one of the popular sports. I don't think any softball or baseball or track coach, etc. feels demands like you are saying. Same for coaches not in P5 conferences.

Secondly, people in private industry DO get fired for not meeting tough expectations. If you're the CTO of Target, for example, and you let the website slip and lose sales to Walmart, you're getting fired and someone else is going to come in and try and get the website back to the top. If you're coming up with promotional fast food items that don't sell, you're getting replaced by someone else, etc.

Are there many jobs like I just described, no, there are some. Just like there are only some coaches with high demands, while there are thousands who aren't held to a really high standard.
This is correct and shows the gap in perspectives among members of this thread.
Division 1 Big Ten high profile sports are essentially like Fortune 500 companies. Where expectations are always high and pressure is applied to either perform or leave. And by perform it means always succeed. On this thread I think all many of us just want to see improvement. Not the same problems game after game year after year. That is not an unreasonable expectation for a Big 10 coach. "Trying your best" won't cut it for long without at least some discernable improvement.
And to be clear: I've always been a big fan of Whalen and really want her to succeed. But not enough to lie to myself about what I'm witnessing.
 

This is correct and shows the gap in perspectives among members of this thread.
Division 1 Big Ten high profile sports are essentially like Fortune 500 companies. Where expectations are always high and pressure is applied to either perform or leave. And by perform it means always succeed. On this thread I think all many of us just want to see improvement. Not the same problems game after game year after year. That is not an unreasonable expectation for a Big 10 coach. "Trying your best" won't cut it for long without at least some discernable improvement.
And to be clear: I've always been a big fan of Whalen and really want her to succeed. But not enough to lie to myself about what I'm witnessing.
Thank you. Said better than me. This is what I'm talking about. The question of the thread was and is still the same: when does it become hot. If Coyle is not thinking about it (whether or not the seat is actually hot), he needs to think about it. Should it be and if it is, what is the timeline?
 

I will submit a candidate below for your consideration, I have seen her up close and personal at two different schools. First as a Div 2 coach and presently as a MAC coach just down the street from my house. She’s good and won everywhere she has been so far.


Can she recruit at a Big Ten school, who knows? But she’s a winner and has a good staff that has followed her around.

Awesome job discovering that coach prospect and a good argument for that. I am not saying I am for or against moving in that direction, just that you made a great post there.

At a 10,000 foot level I will only mention that I previously said that I think win-loss record does not matter this year. The team both has young freshmen and then a drop in talent due to the transfer portal issue where six players left the team. Potential new transfers rebuffed the program because they saw many recent players bolt via the transfer portal, I assume, a catch 22. I said before I felt the goal is 2023-24 and just ignore wins-losses this year when making an assessment.

Some additional history about the Whalen era I want to mention as an FYI was the Destiny Pitts situation, because I don't see that in the history being mentioned.

Pitts was the unanimous Big Ten Freshman of the Year for Minnesota.

Whalen suspended the star basketball player Pitts for behavior unbecoming of the standards of the team, apparently a hand gesture during a game. Pitts said she felt shocked and blindsided. I am not aware of anyone or any news source seeing or reporting what it was. Destiny Pitts then hit the transfer portal.

At Texas A&M she led Texas A&M to a ranking, 25-2 record, and a Sweet 16 NCAA Tournament birth. She and Texas A&M beat Iowa State in the 2ns round and lost to #11 Arizona.

Had Whalen handled the Pitts situation in a more measured way I think that would have been Minnesota in March Madness and fueled more recruiting. Instead, it set the program back.

The Fab Four recruiting was a HUGE plus that Whalen gets credit for.

Anyway... I am just making the history record more clear.

I have no opinion to weigh in with other than the factoids I've mentioned.




 
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. . . At Texas A&M she led Texas A&M to a ranking, 25-2 record, and a Sweet 16 NCAA Tournament birth. She and Texas A&M beat Iowa State in the 2ns round and lost to #11 Arizona. . . .
Anyway... I am just making the history record more clear.
I have no opinion to weigh in with other than the factoids I've mentioned.

Your description of Pitts having “led” Texas A&M to great success in 2020-21 sounds like an assistant coaching bio where any connection to a successful season or player is hyped to overstate the importance of the assistant.

In reality, Pitts had a good or very good season for a role player for A&M in 2020-21, being named the SEC’s 6th man of the year, after playing 18 minutes a game, scoring 7.0 ppg (6th on the team), with 2.3 rpg (5th on the team).
 
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Awesome job discovering that coach prospect and a good argument for that. I am not saying I am for or against moving in that direction, just that you made a great post there.

At a 10,000 foot level I will only mention that I previously said that I think win-loss record does not matter this year. The team both has young freshmen and then a drop in talent due to the transfer portal issue where six players left the team. Potential new transfers rebuffed the program because they saw many recent players bolt via the transfer portal, I assume, a catch 22. I said before I felt the goal is 2023-24 and just ignore wins-losses this year when making an assessment.

Some additional history about the Whalen era I want to mention as an FYI was the Destiny Pitts situation, because I don't see that in the history being mentioned.

Pitts was the unanimous Big Ten Freshman of the Year for Minnesota.

Whalen suspended the star basketball player Pitts for behavior unbecoming of the standards of the team, apparently a hand gesture during a game. Pitts said she felt shocked and blindsided. I am not aware of anyone or any news source seeing or reporting what it was. Destiny Pitts then hit the transfer portal.

At Texas A&M she led Texas A&M to a ranking, 25-2 record, and a Sweet 16 NCAA Tournament birth. She and Texas A&M beat Iowa State in the 2ns round and lost to #11 Arizona.

Had Whalen handled the Pitts situation in a more measured way I think that would have been Minnesota in March Madness and fueled more recruiting. Instead, it set the program back.

The Fab Four recruiting was a HUGE plus that Whalen gets credit for.

Anyway... I am just making the history record more clear.

I have no opinion to weigh in with other than the factoids I've mentioned.





I don't fault Whalen for dishing out consequences for Pitts behavior because I thought it was clearly needed. I was getting pissed off watching her behavior/nonverbals her last few games. Was there another way to dissuade the behavior and coax her into the culture she was trying to build, maybe. I do and always have faulted Whalen for that but it may have been a necessary outcome. Lindsey may have been too occomodating and should have driven her and Jasmin out sooner to get the culture changed sooner. Will never know but I don't believe in NOT dishing out consequences just because someone is your star player.
 

I don't fault Whalen for dishing out consequences for Pitts behavior because I thought it was clearly needed. I was getting pissed off watching her behavior/nonverbals her last few games. Was there another way to dissuade the behavior and coax her into the culture she was trying to build, maybe. I do and always have faulted Whalen for that but it may have been a necessary outcome. Lindsey may have been too occomodating and should have driven her and Jasmin out sooner to get the culture changed sooner. Will never know but I don't believe in NOT dishing out consequences just because someone is your star player.
Coaching can be like walking a tight rope. If you don't discipline a player, who rebukes correction, it effects the attitude of the rest of the team or by not using discipline it can embolden the player to continue their disruptive behavior. I remember Pitt walking off the court after Wahlen tried to talk to her...it lead to Pitt shaking off Wahlen's attempt to stop her from leaving.
Good for Wahlen for her actions. Who knows Pitt may have matured as a result.
 

Good clarifying comments. Good to put it out there for that.
 

There has only been about 28 winning seasons in the 50-year history of Gopher Women's Basketball. There has only been 10 NCAA appearances, 3 AIAW, and 6 WNIT--mostly first and second round losses. We have never won the Big Ten or Big Ten tournament. We carry on like the U of Minn is the greatest place for a basketball player to play. The men's and women's programs are near rock bottom. It is hard to get impact players to sign on. We are hoping to get home-grown players to attend because of their ties to the state and we hope that they will eventually develop into great players.
How did Wisconsin do it?

Granted I know absolutely nothing about how good Wisc's women's program is, it could be terrible. But I know their men's program is pretty good.
 

Coaching can be like walking a tight rope. If you don't discipline a player, who rebukes correction, it effects the attitude of the rest of the team or by not using discipline it can embolden the player to continue their disruptive behavior. I remember Pitt walking off the court after Wahlen tried to talk to her...it lead to Pitt shaking off Wahlen's attempt to stop her from leaving.
Good for Wahlen for her actions. Who knows Pitt may have matured as a result.
Pitts was recruited by Stollings and was ingrained in the all offense, no defense style of play. I know that Pitts had more than one disagreement with Whalen. Lindsay tried to get her to reform her behavior. It was to no avail.
 

Pitts was recruited by Stollings and was ingrained in the all offense, no defense style of play. I know that Pitts had more than one disagreement with Whalen. Lindsay tried to get her to reform her behavior. It was to no avail.

When you bring a player into your coaching circle and seek advice from that player time after time, you blur the lines between coach and player.
 

The balance is Whalen will be back next year unless the weight swings enough the other way. "I can see both sides" means keep rolling with what we got. The onus is on the "change" people to make that case.

Whalen's contract is through the 2024-25 season. The last year of contracts generally is a fluff year. It's a payout year. Earlier than that, the school has a financial incentive to stay with the contract until then. And the assumption at the time of agreement is let's see what you can do until then.

The critics are getting louder online but also supporters clearly remain greater.

Advantage: No change, roll to next season.
 

Lol glad to see @Bfan posting again after the season has gone to crap
 

The balance is Whalen will be back next year unless the weight swings enough the other way. "I can see both sides" means keep rolling with what we got. The onus is on the "change" people to make that case.

Whalen's contract is through the 2024-25 season. The last year of contracts generally is a fluff year. It's a payout year. Earlier than that, the school has a financial incentive to stay with the contract until then. And the assumption at the time of agreement is let's see what you can do until then.

The critics are getting louder online but also supporters clearly remain greater.

Advantage: No change, roll to next season.

Update: There is no financial incentive since the last year is paid at $0 in a losing season. The thread about the contract was bumped up with those details. Anyway, tipping point doesn't seem reached to me.

Winning Wisconsin and Rutgers, this may not even be at the cusp.

I am detached from this and not going to express my opinions injected sometimes boldly. No place for flinged opinions now. Went to to the Minnesota-Indiana game and have Big Ten + still. I'm not saying anything, well almost.
 

The balance is Whalen will be back next year unless the weight swings enough the other way. "I can see both sides" means keep rolling with what we got. The onus is on the "change" people to make that case.

Whalen's contract is through the 2024-25 season. The last year of contracts generally is a fluff year. It's a payout year. Earlier than that, the school has a financial incentive to stay with the contract until then. And the assumption at the time of agreement is let's see what you can do until then.

The critics are getting louder online but also supporters clearly remain greater.

Advantage: No change, roll to next season.

I bumped the revised contract thread. And, as I understand it,
next season would be contract year four. Which means the payout if Whalen was terminated before the start of next season would be $215,000.
 

I bumped the revised contract thread. And, as I understand it,
next season would be contract year four. Which means the payout if Whalen was terminated before the start of next season would be $215,000.

Thanks. I saw that. Great that you know so much about all the various details about MN sports.

Because this season is not a winning Big Ten season, the last year pay out is $0. So there is not two more years to pay out, according to what you posted elsewhere.

I am not suggesting anything, just thanking ILH for, I think I understand, bringing this information out.



3.2.1. The University may terminate this Agreement at any time without cause upon thirty (30) days written notice to Coach. In such event, the University shall pay Coach a Termination Fee for the remaining Term of Employment based upon the following total amount available for each contract year.....

($215,000) for contract year four; and zero dollars ($0) for contract year five. If Coach finishes a season with a winning Big Ten Conference regular season record during any contract year, the Termination Fee for contract year five will be two hundred fifteen thousand dollars ($215,000) instead of zero dollars ($0).

---------------------------------------
I am not suggesting anything.
 
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Maryland coach Brenda Frese (Brenda Oldfield) made a name for herself at Ball State. She turned a 9-17 program into a 16-13 and 19-9 program. Minnesota hired her.

Oldfield (Frese) took a 8-20 Minnesota program and turned it into a 22-8 team in one season. Of course, she had a future Hall of Famer Lindsay Whalen about to explode onto the scene. I think they both helped each other. Sometimes good coaches get a little lucky.

And then after one season at Minnesota she left to Maryland.

At Illinois, I wonder if Shauna Green will move on to greener pastures. She made a name for herself building a winning program at Dayton. Illinois then brought her in. Green also brought along some players to Illinois. Some of Illinois's success are those transfer portal players Green brought along.

-----------------------------------

Minnesota is sitting on the biggest bonanza of high school girls basketball talent in the world. It would be sweet if Minnesota became a pipeline from youth to Minnesota.

Can this current coaching regime build that pipeline with the current young players a catalyst?

Could a new coach make the program more attractive to future prospects?

Will a top coach at Minnesota jump ship to greener pastures?

Will next year with the current coach be the break out year? Will next year with a different coach be the turnaround year? Will next year be a down year with either scenario?
"Minnesota is sitting on the biggest bonanza of high school girls basketball talent in the world." Hyperbole like this undermines your other assertions.
 




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