What's your bottom line?

killme

Active member
Joined
Sep 3, 2011
Messages
1,572
Reaction score
0
Points
36
I’m an unabashed Jerry Kill supporter and believe he’s one of the greatest men I’ve ever met. I pull for him to succeed, and thus am a big Minnesota football fan.

The day I met him, he spoke about the success he was going to have and being an optimist, I admired his confidence. But, since I knew he couldn’t accomplish those things I tried to explain that “it just can’t happen here because....” He proved me wrong in such a dramatic way, it was like beating me at ping-pong 21-0...left handed...blindfolded. lol.

I’ve seen posters say he did it at lower levels but can he do it in major college football. Don’t worry. The answer is yes. Doubt him if you want, but don’t bet your house he won’t succeed here.

In response to Souhan’s crap, Killer hasn’t painted himself into a corner to resign if he has seizures and misses games. Out of context, that can be construed, but the total quote is about leaving if he can’t do the job, which I believe he thinks is making Minnesota a B1G and BCS contender.

Everywhere he’s been on and off the field, he has left it a better place. I guarantee his legacy will be that he did that during his tenure at Minnesota. I love to win, hate to lose, but have some shades of grey in-between and it’s obvious to me this team is solidly on the rise. As the talent and experience improves - and it will - the wins will come easier, but in the meantime, the current players will play hard and improve. And, this community will benefit in more ways than any other in the B1G.

Jerry says he’ll resign if he can’t do the job. He jokes about the high risk of getting fired in his profession. But, he’s never been fired. And, I’m pretty sure he never will be. If at the end of the day Minnesota is better off with Jerry gone, then by all means get rid of him. Something tells me the people making that call will get it right.

So, what’s your bottom line?

Is it just about wins and losses? How many of you would be fine with judging his success or failure by his won-loss record? Some think the point spread is important. I believe there are many layers for evaluating this situation.

Does it matter if kids graduate? If we’re undefeated, but graduation rate is zero is that ok? Does the product matter at all?

Does the character of the players coming in and going out mean anything? If we send several to the NFL, like that other school that likes to call itself “the U,” but they’re mostly athletically talented criminals we wouldn’t want in our homes, is that a source of pride?

My guess is there are some who do have a simpler bottom line, but for many of us there is a much more complex, perhaps undefinable measuring stick to determine whether Jerry Kill is successful. Having a perfect attendance record seems to count for a lot to folks like Souhan and Kravitz.

Killer is the leader of this program. Not having him involved on game-day is significant. But, if you look at Michigan’s facilities, tradition, and other advantages, the Gophers aren’t competing on a level playing field to start with. So? Jerry being in the mix is important. So let’s get the dang seizures under control.

I like what Jerry Kill stands for. I like who he is, how he goes about leading a program, and am confident his track record of success at every stop is no accident. He hasn’t taken plum jobs to do it.

Jerry and his staff are confident they will win here. So am I. So, I encourage Gopher fans to join me in being part of the process of getting there, and to enjoy it. Winning is going to be especially sweet!
 

I also respect Jerry Kill and the work he's done on the academic side. But wins and loses are the bottom line. Don't win, and your out of a job.
 

I was one who was pleased when Coach Kill was hired and nothing has changed. Sure there is a concern about his health and that could be a major factor in his tenure at the UM. In the meantime, lets lay some more bricks!!
 

Nothing should matter except Wins & Losses... we'll see where we are in Year 5...
 

My evaluation criteria for any coah would be the same:

1. No academic scandals or major illegal actions;
2. Improving conference record with his own recruits (typically this would be years 3, 4 and 5);
3. Keeping the best Minnesota High School talent at home.

Under these criteria, I sincerely doubt that #1 will ever be an issue. I see improvement on item #3. So that leaves item #2. For that one, we all need to take a deep breath and relax and be just a little patient.
 


It's simple for me. Make the game enjoyable to watch again.
 

My evaluation criteria is as follows:
1) conference record/standings/championships
2) top-25 finishes in the major polls/BCS standings
3)trophies, including bowl wins
4) Wisconsin is so important to me, it gets a second bullet

Caveat for all of this is I expect to see the results without cheating. I obviously have a moral problem with that (a win by cheating is no win at all), and it also puts the wins at risk of being retroactively stripped away. As far as the academics go, I obviously want every student, athlete or not, to succeed academically, but within the sports context, I mainly want to make sure there are not problems that hurt the team (such as eligibility issues), but I expect those to be reflected in the wins/losses. Keeping it close/moral victories don't do jack for me.
 


If Kill goes 1-7 or god forbid 0-8 in the Big Ten this year do you keep him?

There are those who are saying that it doesn't pay to dwell on Kill's health right now because, if they win only 1 or 2 conference games, he'll be gone, and the point will be moot. I don't think I agree with that at all. I think it's exactly the opposite. I think he'll definitely be back next year, even if this season bombs, unless the health concerns trump everything.
 



There are those who are saying that it doesn't pay to dwell on Kill's health right now because, if they win only 1 or 2 conference games, he'll be gone, and the point will be moot. I don't think I agree with that at all. I think it's exactly the opposite. I think he'll definitely be back next year, even if this season bombs, unless the health concerns trump everything.

Probably this. His contract runs through 2017 with a buyout of $600,000 per year, half of his base salary and half of his supplemental compensation for the duration of the deal. Unlike the Mason situation, doubt that there would be any deep pocketed donors who would write a check to the "General Fund" to say good-by to Coach Kill. Those days are probably over.

People HATED Brewster toward the end, and were tired of Tubby, but there were no rumors of money coming in to fire them were there?

Otherwise, most people have the right ideas about what would justify a firing; Wins/Losses, academic performance, putting people in the stands etc.

Gold Vison probably said it for me. They've got to make it enjoyable to go to TCF. That means they have to figure out a way to pressure a QB and to PUT SOME DAMN POINTS ON THE BOARD!!!!

Killme had it correct when he typed this "Some think the point spread is important."

The problem is it's the Coaching Staff, that seems to make decisions on keeping the losses close, not trying to win the game. They either have way to much faith in an undersized, overworked and depth "thin" Defense to able to keep things close enough to "steal a game" at the end. That's best case. Or they may also be to comfortable throwing away games and patiently waiting to get their "Four Full Classes" on Campus.

Don't know which is worse.
 


If Kill goes 1-7 or god forbid 0-8 in the Big Ten this year do you keep him?

0-8 combined with the health concerns and low attendance at TCF might be enough to push NT to pull the trigger after this season. My prediction coming into this year was that Kill needed to win 2-3 Big Ten Games this year and at least 3 in 2014 to come back in 2015.

NT is in a tough spot with this one since he inherited Kill and may be looking for the perfect justification to get "his guy" in place for attempting to turn the program around.

I still think Kill gets this year and next year but this latest seizure clouds things some in my mind and if there is another gameday issue combined with continuing to lose I could see something happen after this year. Bottom line for me in all this is I have a really hard time calling anything progress if the Big Ten record gets worse than it was last year.
 

If Kill goes 1-7 or god forbid 0-8 in the Big Ten this year do you keep him?

I might be in the minority; however, yes, absolutely you keep him!

He's had TWO of his type of recruiting classes. The first year was a Brewster scramble to keep kids. If they let him go today, this program is in better shape than when he got it. You've got to give him this year and next year for sure. I'd like to see him get at least one more after that, but if there is only 1 conf win, or less, in year 4...it might be time.
 



I might be in the minority; however, yes, absolutely you keep him!

He's had TWO of his type of recruiting classes. The first year was a Brewster scramble to keep kids. If they let him go today, this program is in better shape than when he got it. You've got to give him this year and next year for sure. I'd like to see him get at least one more after that, but if there is only 1 conf win, or less, in year 4...it might be time.

If there is still only two at that point, it would definitely be time in my opinion. You don't need to be the Alabama Crimson Tide to go 3-5 in the B1G once over the course of four years.
 

I might be in the minority; however, yes, absolutely you keep him!

He's had TWO of his type of recruiting classes. The first year was a Brewster scramble to keep kids. If they let him go today, this program is in better shape than when he got it. You've got to give him this year and next year for sure. I'd like to see him get at least one more after that, but if there is only 1 conf win, or less, in year 4...it might be time.


You might be in the minority, but with my vote it is not a minority of one!
 

Considering Kill has 7 year deal in place this makes me believe regardless of the win - loss record this staff is going to get 5 full years to see what they can do. If they are sitting on a total of 7-8 conference wins over a 5 year period Kill and his staff will be gone.
 

0-8 combined with the health concerns and low attendance at TCF might be enough to push NT to pull the trigger after this season. My prediction coming into this year was that Kill needed to win 2-3 Big Ten Games this year and at least 3 in 2014 to come back in 2015.

NT is in a tough spot with this one since he inherited Kill and may be looking for the perfect justification to get "his guy" in place for attempting to turn the program around.

I still think Kill gets this year and next year but this latest seizure clouds things some in my mind and if there is another gameday issue combined with continuing to lose I could see something happen after this year. Bottom line for me in all this is I have a really hard time calling anything progress if the Big Ten record gets worse than it was last year.

I doubt very much if Kaler and NT are thinking about making a change at this time, assuming Kill's health doesn't becomes a problem that can't be managed. If they fire coach Kill at this time, after all he has done to change things at Minnesota, I doubt that any coaches would view Minnesota in a very favorably light. There is a reason that Kaler extended coach Kill's contract to seven years. He realized that this was going to require patience.
 

There is a reason that Kaler extended coach Kill's contract to seven years. He realized that this was going to require patience.

^ This.

We have been really bad for 45 years. Its going to take a little patience to turn this thing around.
 

If there is still only two at that point, it would definitely be time in my opinion. You don't need to be the Alabama Crimson Tide to go 3-5 in the B1G once over the course of four years.

In year 5, Mason had 2 B1G wins and was 4-7. The conf had only 2 ranked teams: Illinois #12 and Michigan #20; it's not like it was Murderer's Row then. He had 5 conf wins (yr 3), then 4 (yr 4), and then 2 (yr 5). The argument could've been made the prior success weren't his guys and should've been canned.

Now, those teams are what we are aspiring to be. Give Kill the time to do it!
 

I’m an unabashed Jerry Kill supporter and believe he’s one of the greatest men I’ve ever met. I pull for him to succeed, and thus am a big Minnesota football fan.

The day I met him, he spoke about the success he was going to have and being an optimist, I admired his confidence. But, since I knew he couldn’t accomplish those things I tried to explain that “it just can’t happen here because....” He proved me wrong in such a dramatic way, it was like beating me at ping-pong 21-0...left handed...blindfolded. lol.

I’ve seen posters say he did it at lower levels but can he do it in major college football. Don’t worry. The answer is yes. Doubt him if you want, but don’t bet your house he won’t succeed here.

In response to Souhan’s crap, Killer hasn’t painted himself into a corner to resign if he has seizures and misses games. Out of context, that can be construed, but the total quote is about leaving if he can’t do the job, which I believe he thinks is making Minnesota a B1G and BCS contender.

Everywhere he’s been on and off the field, he has left it a better place. I guarantee his legacy will be that he did that during his tenure at Minnesota. I love to win, hate to lose, but have some shades of grey in-between and it’s obvious to me this team is solidly on the rise. As the talent and experience improves - and it will - the wins will come easier, but in the meantime, the current players will play hard and improve. And, this community will benefit in more ways than any other in the B1G.

Jerry says he’ll resign if he can’t do the job. He jokes about the high risk of getting fired in his profession. But, he’s never been fired. And, I’m pretty sure he never will be. If at the end of the day Minnesota is better off with Jerry gone, then by all means get rid of him. Something tells me the people making that call will get it right.

So, what’s your bottom line?

Is it just about wins and losses? How many of you would be fine with judging his success or failure by his won-loss record? Some think the point spread is important. I believe there are many layers for evaluating this situation.

Does it matter if kids graduate? If we’re undefeated, but graduation rate is zero is that ok? Does the product matter at all?

Does the character of the players coming in and going out mean anything? If we send several to the NFL, like that other school that likes to call itself “the U,” but they’re mostly athletically talented criminals we wouldn’t want in our homes, is that a source of pride?

My guess is there are some who do have a simpler bottom line, but for many of us there is a much more complex, perhaps undefinable measuring stick to determine whether Jerry Kill is successful. Having a perfect attendance record seems to count for a lot to folks like Souhan and Kravitz.

Killer is the leader of this program. Not having him involved on game-day is significant. But, if you look at Michigan’s facilities, tradition, and other advantages, the Gophers aren’t competing on a level playing field to start with. So? Jerry being in the mix is important. So let’s get the dang seizures under control.

I like what Jerry Kill stands for. I like who he is, how he goes about leading a program, and am confident his track record of success at every stop is no accident. He hasn’t taken plum jobs to do it.

Jerry and his staff are confident they will win here. So am I. So, I encourage Gopher fans to join me in being part of the process of getting there, and to enjoy it. Winning is going to be especially sweet!
I understand your visceral emotional reaction and faith but in practical terms we have to beat WI, IA, and NE at their own game and no amount of positive feelings is going to make that a practical reality.
 

The only way Jerry Kill is removed this offseason will be if he steps down on his own. I don't see him being fired because of wins and losses. The problem with everything going on right now with this program is because we are seeing more of the same in the Big Ten. We are losing games and not showing much if any improvement from a year ago. We are also seeing more talk about Kill's health than we are about the success of his team. We have heard him talk about the improvement this team is showing but we are not seeing it on the field against legit competition. If this team wins 1 or less games in the Big Ten this season he has to really show something next year or he will be replaced. This job is not easy but you have to show continued improvement to keep interest building. Minnesota has struggled for so long people are tired of the waiting game especially when you dont play a very exciting brand of football. If you are winning 7-10 games 24 to 17 no one will have a problem with it, but if you are not winning fans and more importantly recruits are going to look elsewhere.

Its the Big Ten winning without cheating is the most important thing for any coach. If you don't win you are out if you dont win and your team is boring to watch you will be fired even faster.
 

I’m an unabashed Jerry Kill supporter and believe he’s one of the greatest men I’ve ever met. I pull for him to succeed, and thus am a big Minnesota football fan.

The day I met him, he spoke about the success he was going to have and being an optimist, I admired his confidence. But, since I knew he couldn’t accomplish those things I tried to explain that “it just can’t happen here because....” He proved me wrong in such a dramatic way, it was like beating me at ping-pong 21-0...left handed...blindfolded. lol.

I’ve seen posters say he did it at lower levels but can he do it in major college football. Don’t worry. The answer is yes. Doubt him if you want, but don’t bet your house he won’t succeed here.

In response to Souhan’s crap, Killer hasn’t painted himself into a corner to resign if he has seizures and misses games. Out of context, that can be construed, but the total quote is about leaving if he can’t do the job, which I believe he thinks is making Minnesota a B1G and BCS contender.

Everywhere he’s been on and off the field, he has left it a better place. I guarantee his legacy will be that he did that during his tenure at Minnesota. I love to win, hate to lose, but have some shades of grey in-between and it’s obvious to me this team is solidly on the rise. As the talent and experience improves - and it will - the wins will come easier, but in the meantime, the current players will play hard and improve. And, this community will benefit in more ways than any other in the B1G.

Jerry says he’ll resign if he can’t do the job. He jokes about the high risk of getting fired in his profession. But, he’s never been fired. And, I’m pretty sure he never will be. If at the end of the day Minnesota is better off with Jerry gone, then by all means get rid of him. Something tells me the people making that call will get it right.

So, what’s your bottom line?

Is it just about wins and losses? How many of you would be fine with judging his success or failure by his won-loss record? Some think the point spread is important. I believe there are many layers for evaluating this situation.

Does it matter if kids graduate? If we’re undefeated, but graduation rate is zero is that ok? Does the product matter at all?

Does the character of the players coming in and going out mean anything? If we send several to the NFL, like that other school that likes to call itself “the U,” but they’re mostly athletically talented criminals we wouldn’t want in our homes, is that a source of pride?

My guess is there are some who do have a simpler bottom line, but for many of us there is a much more complex, perhaps undefinable measuring stick to determine whether Jerry Kill is successful. Having a perfect attendance record seems to count for a lot to folks like Souhan and Kravitz.

Killer is the leader of this program. Not having him involved on game-day is significant. But, if you look at Michigan’s facilities, tradition, and other advantages, the Gophers aren’t competing on a level playing field to start with. So? Jerry being in the mix is important. So let’s get the dang seizures under control.

I like what Jerry Kill stands for. I like who he is, how he goes about leading a program, and am confident his track record of success at every stop is no accident. He hasn’t taken plum jobs to do it.

Jerry and his staff are confident they will win here. So am I. So, I encourage Gopher fans to join me in being part of the process of getting there, and to enjoy it. Winning is going to be especially sweet!


Well said and an outstanding, realistic perspective. +100
 

^ This.

We have been really bad for 45 years. Its going to take a little patience to turn this thing around.

They were good for 6 of those years. Average for 11 and mediocre to "really bad" for 28. You're certainly right about needing patience though. That and "the right Coach". Don't know if we'll have enough patience and it's to soon to know if we have the right Coach or not.
 

In year 5, Mason had 2 B1G wins and was 4-7. The conf had only 2 ranked teams: Illinois #12 and Michigan #20; it's not like it was Murderer's Row then. He had 5 conf wins (yr 3), then 4 (yr 4), and then 2 (yr 5). The argument could've been made the prior success weren't his guys and should've been canned.

Now, those teams are what we are aspiring to be. Give Kill the time to do it!

Kill should get the time to do it but you're not helping if you want to use Mason as an example. He went 8-4 and 5-3 in the Big Ten in his third year and 6-6 and 4-4 in his fourth. Sure his 5th year was lousy but beating the Sconnies at home certainly helped but we wouldn't even be asking the question if Kill gets those numbers this year and next.
 

If Kill goes 1-7 or god forbid 0-8 in the Big Ten this year do you keep him?

This is a key question. It should be all about wins and losses, but his health has to play some part of the equation. If they get to 6-6, but he misses two more games, can he really continue? If they go 1-7 or 0-8 and he misses another game or two, should he really continue?

If his health is fine, but they go 0-8, does he stand much chance of surviving past next year anyway, given the B1G schedule? At that point, it would feel like Brewster after 2009.

Best-case scenerio is we are done with Kill missing games for this year and they find a way to win 2-3 more games. Then I think we're back where we were 3 weeks ago with things looking up. Anything less than that and there have to be serious doubts.
 

I firmly believe they are on the right path. They are on pace with where I would have expected them to be at this point, and with the status of the roster right now.

The offense looks rough right now, no doubt, but that's what I would expect with two SOPH and a FR on the O-Line and a Freshman QB. I was actually happy with how they moved the ball against Michigan. We were concerned about the ability to complete the forward pass? The Freshman QB, in his first ever BT road start and second start ever, went 14-for-21 and looked pretty good doing it. They showed some balance on offense. Over 50% on third down, it wasn't a complete disaster by any stretch, IMO.

I thought the story of the game against Michigan was Funchess. Period. The Gophers just had no answer. He accounted for over 42% of Michigan's offense and over 60% of Gardner's passing yardage. In this game alone he produced 50% of his production in the first 4 games combined.

Next year will be everything in my opinion. The "team is young" excuse will be completely out the door and unacceptable. They'll have seasoned veterans at most every position on the field. The schedule is tough but it's no different than any other year in the BT. There's not a doubt in my mind that by the end of next season, any reasonable fan, including myself, will be able to look at the team on the field and the results and be able to determine whether or not this staff is in over their heads.
 

They won't fire him because of his health issues. They'll fire him after next year if the product on the field continues to stink to high heaven like it has to date this year. To me, the health issues are what they are and the bigger issue is can they get it done on the field and on the recruiting trail. You get paid in the B1G to be the total package; make sure your kids go to class, recruit good citizens, put a watchable product on the field and win. The one thing I will say about his health is everyone on the staff pretending it doesn't affect anything at all relative to the program are seriously disingenuous. I've gotten to the point where if he seizes right there at mid-field during the next three games then so be it because it's his choice to put himself in the position to have that happen. Just put a watchable and competitive product on the field and then whatever Kill decides to do with his own health can be his business.
 

They were good for 6 of those years. Average for 11 and mediocre to "really bad" for 28. You're certainly right about needing patience though. That and "the right Coach". Don't know if we'll have enough patience and it's to soon to know if we have the right Coach or not.

Okay, maybe "bad" isn't the right term.

During the past 44 years we have only had 1 6-conference-win team (1973). We had 5-conference-win teams in 1986 (the dsame year Oklahoma beat us 63-0 and we lost to Pacific (huh?) - so I don't know if I'd count that as a great season), 1990, 1999 and 2003.

I would challenge you to find any other major conference team with as few good season as we've had. The only ones I can find are Duke, Iowa State and Indiana.
 

Kill should get the time to do it but you're not helping if you want to use Mason as an example. He went 8-4 and 5-3 in the Big Ten in his third year and 6-6 and 4-4 in his fourth. Sure his 5th year was lousy but beating the Sconnies at home certainly helped but we wouldn't even be asking the question if Kill gets those numbers this year and next.

So...we are happy if a coach wins with the previous regimes recruits and then loses the first year the team is entirely his (yr5), BUT when a coach struggles with the previous regimes recruits and his own inexperienced recruits he should be canned?

He needs to lose terribly with his own guys for a couple of years or take gigantic steps backwards before any coach gets canned.

WI was bad too, 3-5 (5-7 overall) including a 31 point loss to Indiana.
 

So if he misses half of the games, does he keep his job?
 




Top Bottom