What was Ferentz thinking?

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The timing of the last timeout was terrible. In any case, one of the more entertaining Big Ten games I've seen lately.
 

I didn't hate the timeout as much as everyone else. This is what they were thinking. Instead of quick spiking the ball and losing two seconds, they could call the timeout, and have 12 seconds to run at least two more plays. The real bonehead decision was Stanzi and that ugly underarm pass he threw. That lost the game.
 

Sparlimb said:
I didn't hate the timeout as much as everyone else. This is what they were thinking. Instead of quick spiking the ball and losing two seconds, they could call the timeout, and have 12 seconds to run at least two more plays. The real bonehead decision was Stanzi and that ugly underarm pass he threw. That lost the game.
Click to expand...

THIS...
 

Either way, wisconsin seems to have a decent route to the Rose Bowl. Here's hoping they trip up or MState wins out.
 



Sparlimb said:
I didn't hate the timeout as much as everyone else. This is what they were thinking. Instead of quick spiking the ball and losing two seconds, they could call the timeout, and have 12 seconds to run at least two more plays. The real bonehead decision was Stanzi and that ugly underarm pass he threw. That lost the game.
Click to expand...

what?

you spike it.....still get your two plays and have a timeout

the bonehead pass doesnt mean the game is over if you keep the timeout
 

RedPoo said:
Either way, wisconsin seems to have a decent route to the Rose Bowl. Here's hoping they trip up or MState wins out.
Click to expand...

msu beat wisconsin

msu has 4 more games

at iowa
home minnesota
home purdue
at PSU

i only see one possible loss there

how does bucky have an inside route to the rose bowl?
 

Goldteam said:
msu beat wisconsin

msu has 4 more games

at iowa
home minnesota
home purdue
at PSU

i only see one possible loss there

how does bucky have an inside route to the rose bowl?
Click to expand...

I see two possible losses there (barring major upsets). And I also said I hope MSU wins out...even though if they do, they have a better than 50-50 chance of being in the National Championship, which would likely mean the vadgers in the Rose Bowl.

Btw, is it misogynistic for me to call them the vadgers? Or just juvenile? (And does it look better spelled 'vagers'?)
 

The Iowa game is the only real hurdle left for MSU. I don't see anyone else on their schedule getting within 2 touchdowns. Iowa could really throw a wrench in the Spartans plans though. They are a much better defense than they played like today, and I don't see them giving away 4 points to anyone else, especially at home.
 




Goldteam said:
what?

you spike it.....still get your two plays and have a timeout

the bonehead pass doesnt mean the game is over if you keep the timeout
Click to expand...

You are correct, as it turned out. And I didn't finish expaining my thought. The Timeout was not only to save 2 seconds wasted while spiking, but it was to get the right personnel and right plays called with time to spare. They had just run a 4th down QB sneak. They didn't want to rush, they wanted the right play called. I understand it ended up costing them, but Stanzi didn't make the play there. So there is some blame to go around...
 

Wisky is a long shot for the Rose Bowl, IMO...

A nice NYD Bowl game would be nice though.

Interesting to see what they do with MSU, OSU, Iowa, and the Badgers when the bowls start picking teams. I would assume MSU travels the worst out of the three, but they might take the choice out of the bowls hands if they win out...
 




Over the years, Ferentz has shown this:

1) Exceptional ability to develop undervalued players
2) Exceptional ability to evaluate talent
3) Exceptional ability to coach offensive line play
4) Exceptional ability to get his team to play hard and as a unit
5) Exceptional ability to create a family atmosphere within program
6) Exceptional ability to keep loyal assistants happy and on staff
7) TERRIBLE game management skills
 

What has to hurt the worst for Ferentz

Is having your coaching ability questioned by Matt Millen on national TV. If that happens you know you fugged up.
 

Fire the idiot, he made a mistake.
 

This is a Gopher Board, take your visits about other teams to the Off-Topic Board please.
 

tjgopher said:
Over the years, Ferentz has shown this:

1) Exceptional ability to develop undervalued players
2) Exceptional ability to evaluate talent
3) Exceptional ability to coach offensive line play
4) Exceptional ability to get his team to play hard and as a unit
5) Exceptional ability to create a family atmosphere within program
6) Exceptional ability to keep loyal assistants happy and on staff
7) TERRIBLE game management skills
Click to expand...

Very true, Iowa was very lucky in their Capital One Bowl win a few years ago where they almost ran out the clock with a TO left. It's funny how coaches never learn, even good ones.
 

tjgopher said:
Over the years, Ferentz has shown this:

1) Exceptional ability to develop undervalued players
Click to expand...
How many 2-star or lower rated players start on his team?

The great myth is that Iowa and Wisconsin are starting a bunch of guys that no one else wanted.
 

Dr.Don said:
This is a Gopher Board, take your visits about other teams to the Off-Topic Board please.
Click to expand...

Give me a break! Am I the first one to talk about other college football teams, in particular a Big Ten games, on this forum? Yes, let's talk about that on the Off-topic Forum.
 

Rosemountian said:
How many 2-star or lower rated players start on his team?

The great myth is that Iowa and Wisconsin are starting a bunch of guys that no one else wanted.
Click to expand...

You're right, Kirk Ferentz did a terrible job developing us into NFL players.

Signed,

Dallas Clark (walk-on linebacker)
Bob Sanders (only other offer Ohio)
Robert Gallery (only other offer was Northern Iowa)
Chad Greenway (no other offers)
Sean Considine (walk-on safety)
A.J. Edds (only other offer Indiana)
Matt Kroul (2-star)
Pat Angerer (2-star)
Brandon Myers (walk-on)
Marshall Yanda (juco)
Jonathon Babineaux (2-star)
 

Sparlimb said:
I didn't hate the timeout as much as everyone else. This is what they were thinking. Instead of quick spiking the ball and losing two seconds, they could call the timeout, and have 12 seconds to run at least two more plays. The real bonehead decision was Stanzi and that ugly underarm pass he threw. That lost the game.
Click to expand...

Incorrect. A good coach keeps the timeout and when his QB makes a mistake, still has the timeout to use so that the kicker can line up for a long FG. The mistake by Ferentz meant that the mistake by Stanzi ended the game. Both made mistakes. You can't dismiss it was a horrible decision by Ferentz just because Stanzi also made a mistake.
 

tjgopher said:
You're right, Kirk Ferentz did a terrible job developing us into NFL players.

Signed,

Dallas Clark (walk-on linebacker)
Bob Sanders (only other offer Ohio)
Robert Gallery (only other offer was Northern Iowa)
Chad Greenway (no other offers)
Sean Considine (walk-on safety)
A.J. Edds (only other offer Indiana)
Matt Kroul (2-star)
Pat Angerer (2-star)
Brandon Myers (walk-on)
Marshall Yanda (juco)
Jonathon Babineaux (2-star)
Click to expand...

Thats not the point at all, and you know it. Iowa and Wisconsin both recruit MUCH better than you or anyone wants to give them credit for. Sure, he develops some undervalued players into great players, but the majority of their game changers were all highly recruited players.
 

Rosemountian said:
How many 2-star or lower rated players start on his team?
Click to expand...

Well, Iowa starts 9 players who were 2-stars or lower. As a comparison, Minnesota starts 3.

Here's the breakdown if you really want to know. It mostly proves my point, not yours.

Iowa has three 4-stars, twelve 3-stars, eight 2-stars and one walk-on in the top 24 rotation:

QB - Ricky Stanzi (3-star)
RB - Adam Robinson (2-star)
FB - Brett Morse (2-star)
TE - Allan Reisner (2-star)
RT - Reilly Reiff (3-star)
RG - Marcus Zuzevics (3-star)
C - James Ferentz (3-star)
LG - Julian Vandevelde (3-star grayshirt)
LT - Nolan MacMillan (3-star)
WR - Derrell Johnson-Koulianous (3-star)
WR - Marvin McNutt (3-star)
WR - Collin Sandeman (2-star)

CB - Micah Hyde (2-star)
CB - Shaun Prater (3-star)
OLB - Jeremiah Hunter (4-star)
MLB - Troy Johnson (2-star)
OLB - Tyler Nielson (3-star)
SS - Tyler Sash (3-star)
FS - Brett Greenwood (unranked walkon)
DE - Broderick Binns (3-star)
DT - Christian Ballard (4-star)
DT - Karl Klug (2-star)
DT - Mike Daniels (2-star)
DE - Adrian Clayborne (4-star)

As a way of comparison, here's what the Gopher staff is working with in the top 24:

QB - Adam Weber (3-star)
RB - Deleon Eskridge (3-star)
FB - Jon Hoese (walk-on)
TE - Eric Lair (3-star)
LT - Ed Olsen (3-star)
LG - Chris Bunders (3-star)
C - DJ Burris (3-star)
RG - Matt Carufel (4-star)
RT - Jeff Wills (3-star)
WR - MarQueis Gray (4-star QB)
WR - Da'Jon McKnight (3-star)
WR - Bryant Allen (3-star)

CB - Michael Carter (4-star)
CB - Troy Stoudermire (3-star)
OLB - Keenan Cooper (4-star)
MLB - Gary Tinsley (3-star)
OLB - Mike Rallis (unranked walk-on)
SS - Kyle Theret (2-star)
FS - Ryan Callado (3-star)
DE - Anthony Jacobs (4-star)
DT - Jewhan Edwards (3-star)
DT - Brandon Kirksey (3-star)
DE - DL Willhite (3-star)
DE - Matt Garin (3-star)

So, Minnesota has been working with five 4-stars, 16 3-stars, one 2-star, and two unranked walk-ons.

So, here it is:

Four-Stars: MN (5), IA (3)
Three-Stars: MN (16), IA (12)
Two-Stars: MN (1), IA (8)
Walk-ons: MN (2), IA (1)
 

MNBadgerGuy said:
Thats not the point at all, and you know it. Iowa and Wisconsin both recruit MUCH better than you or anyone wants to give them credit for. Sure, he develops some undervalued players into great players, but the majority of their game changers were all highly recruited players.
Click to expand...

Ok. Then, why can't Minnesota compete? Current Top 24:

Four-Stars: MN (5), WIS (5), IA (3)
Three-Stars: MN (16), WIS (8), IA (12)
Two-Stars: MN (1), WIS (8), IA (8)
Walk-ons: MN (2), WIS (1), IA (1)

National Rankings:

2010: IA #42, WIS and MN (not in Top 50)
2009: MN #39, WIS #43, IA (not in Top 50)
2008: MN #17, WIS #41, IA (not in Top 50)
2007: IA #28, WIS #34 , MN (not in Top 50)
2006: IA #39, WIS #40, MN (not in Top 50)

Believe what you want. Sure, WIS and IA recruit fine, but they are contending for New Year Days and BCS Bowls with above average recruiting classes because they develop players into their system. It is really that simple. So far, the Gophers simply have not done that.

My original point stands, Kirk Ferentz is exceptional at developing undervalued players. That doesn't mean he has a roster full of 2-stars (although he is currently starting 9 of those guys). It simply means he knows what he's doing.
 

All of this recruiting talk doesn't change the fact that Captain Kirk absolutely pissed away a chance at winning that game yesterday. Spike, quick 8-yard out, TO. Sure it would have been a man-sized field goal try (anywhere between 46 and 52 yards, depending on how much ground was gained in the ensuing first down play), but 'tis better to have tried and failed than to never had a shot at it.
 

GopherRock said:
All of this recruiting talk doesn't change the fact that Captain Kirk absolutely pissed away a chance at winning that game yesterday. Spike, quick 8-yard out, TO. Sure it would have been a man-sized field goal try (anywhere between 46 and 52 yards, depending on how much ground was gained in the ensuing first down play), but 'tis better to have tried and failed than to never had a shot at it.
Click to expand...

Yes, as mentioned, he and his staff is TERRIBLE at game management.
 


Back to the original point of thread, I also really questioned only rushing 2 on the Sconnie punt on their final drive which allowed the punter to run for a first down.
 

tjgopher said:
Well, Iowa starts 9 players who were 2-stars or lower. As a comparison, Minnesota starts 3.

Here's the breakdown if you really want to know. It mostly proves my point, not yours.

Iowa has three 4-stars, twelve 3-stars, eight 2-stars and one walk-on in the top 24 rotation:

QB - Ricky Stanzi (3-star)
RB - Adam Robinson (2-star)
FB - Brett Morse (2-star)
TE - Allan Reisner (2-star)
RT - Reilly Reiff (3-star)
RG - Marcus Zuzevics (3-star)
C - James Ferentz (3-star)
LG - Julian Vandevelde (3-star grayshirt)
LT - Nolan MacMillan (3-star)
WR - Derrell Johnson-Koulianous (3-star)
WR - Marvin McNutt (3-star)
WR - Collin Sandeman (2-star)

CB - Micah Hyde (2-star)
CB - Shaun Prater (3-star)
OLB - Jeremiah Hunter (4-star)
MLB - Troy Johnson (2-star)
OLB - Tyler Nielson (3-star)
SS - Tyler Sash (3-star)
FS - Brett Greenwood (unranked walkon)
DE - Broderick Binns (3-star)
DT - Christian Ballard (4-star)
DT - Karl Klug (2-star)
DT - Mike Daniels (2-star)
DE - Adrian Clayborne (4-star)

As a way of comparison, here's what the Gopher staff is working with in the top 24:

QB - Adam Weber (3-star)
RB - Deleon Eskridge (3-star)
FB - Jon Hoese (walk-on)
TE - Eric Lair (3-star)
LT - Ed Olsen (3-star)
LG - Chris Bunders (3-star)
C - DJ Burris (3-star)
RG - Matt Carufel (4-star)
RT - Jeff Wills (3-star)
WR - MarQueis Gray (4-star QB)
WR - Da'Jon McKnight (3-star)
WR - Bryant Allen (3-star)

CB - Michael Carter (4-star)
CB - Troy Stoudermire (3-star)
OLB - Keenan Cooper (4-star)
MLB - Gary Tinsley (3-star)
OLB - Mike Rallis (unranked walk-on)
SS - Kyle Theret (2-star)
FS - Ryan Callado (3-star)
DE - Anthony Jacobs (4-star)
DT - Jewhan Edwards (3-star)
DT - Brandon Kirksey (3-star)
DE - DL Willhite (3-star)
DE - Matt Garin (3-star)

So, Minnesota has been working with five 4-stars, 16 3-stars, one 2-star, and two unranked walk-ons.

So, here it is:

Four-Stars: MN (5), IA (3)
Three-Stars: MN (16), IA (12)
Two-Stars: MN (1), IA (8)
Walk-ons: MN (2), IA (1)
Click to expand...

Nice analysis except for the fact that I am not comparing MN to IA. I know IA develops better.
You also started 24 guys on each team...so I don't know what that is about.
Also you leave out the fact that a redshirt freshman Matt Garin should not be playing at the same level as a Karl Klug who is a redshirt senior. You didn't answer my question.

The answer is that IA starts 3 guys who are 2* or lower on offense. One is a FB and another is a TE (positions that do not get nearly as many 3 and 4 star players. One is a RB who is only playing because IA has lost about 9 running backs over the past 2 years.
On defense they start 3 2-stars and 1 walkon. The 2-starts are all pretty veteran guys, as is the walkon.

So they start 7 not 9 as you stated. You can't call sandeman and the FB starter, you gotta pick one of the other. You can't start 5 D-linemen on a team that runs a 4-3.

As for Minnesota, Mcknight was a 2 star, Chris Bunders was a 2-star. Allen is not a starter. There are something like 2 seniors starting on the defense.

2 things:
1) you are not comparing apples to apples because of the class that the people were in. 99% of highly rated 2-star seniors would be as good as a young low-rated 3 star. You completely ignore the fact that one team is a young team and one team is a veteran team. You also ignore the fact that one defense may be playing better because of the scheme.
2) Your statistics are way off and skewed in the direction of your argument to the naked eye. You start 24 players per team to make your argument look better. You call 2-star players on the gophers roster 3-star players for the sake of your argument.

I never made the claim that Iowa didn't develop talent. I said that their talent development is vastly overrated by many on this board.
 

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