What they're saying around the college football world about the Gophers

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Schnauzer

Schnauzer

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I figured The Outback Bowl victory would turn some heads and a quick review of message boards around the country showed that it did. I just randomly went around to various boards and did a search on "Minnesota" to read through what has been discussed since the bowl win. Nearly every message board with normal to high levels of activity has a thread on either Fleck, the Gophers, or the Outback bowl over the past couple weeks. Of course, all these opinions aren't worth any more than yours or mine as it is all fan-based but in general, it was interesting to read the discussions. I just started with this site and randomly looked around:

College Football Forums Guide - Find popular message boards for all 130 FBS (D1A) teams

Links to the most popular forums for all 130 Football Bowl Subdivision (D1A) teams.
www.footballforumsguide.com www.footballforumsguide.com

I went into it assuming I'd see a lot of comments about how the win was a fluke, how PJ Fleck will be gone to a "bigger" program shortly, how this was a one hit wonder of a season, etc. Although I did find some of that, I was surprised to see the general themes were mostly not along those lines.

Gophers: Nearly universally seen as a well coached, disciplined team that is highly motivated. Lots of comments assuming MN fans are quite happy. Also lots of comments recognizing the win over Auburn was a surprising beat down statistically and the Gophes were the better team. Some comments bringing up the "motivation" factor for Auburn but most discussion dismissed that as an excuse and instead were focused on how good the Gophers are. Lots of comments about individual players on the Gophes and their high levels of skill. People see the Gophers as a legit contender for conference division titles and more in future years.

PJ Fleck: It is clear he has landed on the radar of fans all over the country this year. Nearly universally lauded as a top coach and lots of compliments on how he successfully prepares and motivates his teams. Lots of open jealousy suggesting any team would be lucky to have him and the programs he builds. A few comments about his "rah rah" style and all the sayings and motivational techniques - but it is clear these past two seasons have convinced fans nationwide he is MUCH more than a lucky coach that led Western Michigan to a good season. Much less speculation about how quickly he will leave MN than I figured. Although some mention Michigan or Notre Dame as a place where he will soon be coaching, I was surprised how many people mentioned MN's football legacy and how they wouldn't be surprised to see Fleck grow a legacy here. All in all I think Fleck has successfully answered not only "how will his act play out at a power five school" but also anywhere, including bluebloods. Winning is always the most important thing and that is what he is now seen to be proven capable of doing, anywhere.

SEC: more SEC fans complimentary of the B1G and MN than I would have assumed with lots of comments about how MN would have been good in any conference situation this season, and there is a very bright future for MN. In short, lots of respect.

Naysayers: Aside from isolated comments that can be found most anywhere, if there were some "pockets of negativity" - I would say one of them was a predictable source (Wisconsin) and one was a place that wouldn't have jumped into my mind: Purdue. Wisconsin is pretty much the only place still associating Fleck with wacky things, snake oil salesman, etc. (surprise, surprise) and Purdue fans seem to have a chip on their shoulders about the old "Brohm vs Fleck" debate and like to take some shots at Fleck and undermine his accomplishments a bit. Another location I expected to see negativity was Iowa and at least from what I read, that was not the case. They see Fleck as a formidable coach and the Gophers on the rise with him at the helm.

Curious if any of you have taken in any national opinions, comments from friends in other parts of the country, etc.????? See anything that either agrees with these summaries or differs from them?
 

Great plays that look good make a huge difference in perception.

We had runs that looked amazing.

Morgan, TJ, Bateman and some TE that nobody even knew was on this earth looked great.

Defense didn't give Bro Dix much time.

And the PJ changing the culture mantra was already out nationally.

Everything I've read has been very much more pro Gophers than down on Auburn (outside of fan reaction and that's to be expected / understandable, there were questionable choices).
 

I dont' really understand the snake oil salesman rip. A snake oil salesman is someone who sells something that's fake or doesn't work. Everything Fleck has said so far has come true. Some (spoofin) didn't like that he "lowered expectations" year 1 (zero). But, as far as I can tell, love his style or not, he's delivered. And a snake oil salesman doesn't crow about community service, or GPA.
he's clearly not all talk. He has results to point to as success. He hasn't lowered standards anywhere to achieve them. I guess all they can say is that he "processes" some players and recruits, but this is big boy football and he's hardly unique in that regard. If any player comes to MN and commits themselves in all 4 areas, they aren't getting processed. Anything else?
 

I failed to mention the Notre Dame rivals board had a couple guys fanatically holding to the opinion Fleck and the Gophers suck. It was quite a spirited discussion to read through, with massive factual gaffs on both sides of the argument.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Great plays that look good make a huge difference in perception.

We had runs that looked amazing.

Morgan, TJ, Bateman and some TE that nobody even knew was on this earth looked great.

Defense didn't give Bro Dix much time.

And the PJ changing the culture mantra was already out nationally.

Everything I've read has been very much more pro Gophers than down on Auburn (outside of fan reaction and that's to be expected / understandable, there were questionable choices).
Click to expand...

highlighted part a typo? Either way it made me laugh.
 



Schnauzer said:
I figured The Outback Bowl victory would turn some heads and a quick review of message boards around the country showed that it did. I just randomly went around to various boards and did a search on "Minnesota" to read through what has been discussed since the bowl win. Nearly every message board with normal to high levels of activity has a thread on either Fleck, the Gophers, or the Outback bowl over the past couple weeks. Of course, all these opinions aren't worth any more than yours or mine as it is all fan-based but in general, it was interesting to read the discussions. I just started with this site and randomly looked around:

College Football Forums Guide - Find popular message boards for all 130 FBS (D1A) teams

Links to the most popular forums for all 130 Football Bowl Subdivision (D1A) teams.
www.footballforumsguide.com www.footballforumsguide.com

I went into it assuming I'd see a lot of comments about how the win was a fluke, how PJ Fleck will be gone to a "bigger" program shortly, how this was a one hit wonder of a season, etc. Although I did find some of that, I was surprised to see the general themes were mostly not along those lines.

Gophers: Nearly universally seen as a well coached, disciplined team that is highly motivated. Lots of comments assuming MN fans are quite happy. Also lots of comments recognizing the win over Auburn was a surprising beat down statistically and the Gophes were the better team. Some comments bringing up the "motivation" factor for Auburn but most discussion dismissed that as an excuse and instead were focused on how good the Gophers are. Lots of comments about individual players on the Gophes and their high levels of skill. People see the Gophers as a legit contender for conference division titles and more in future years.

PJ Fleck: It is clear he has landed on the radar of fans all over the country this year. Nearly universally lauded as a top coach and lots of compliments on how he successfully prepares and motivates his teams. Lots of open jealousy suggesting any team would be lucky to have him and the programs he builds. A few comments about his "rah rah" style and all the sayings and motivational techniques - but it is clear these past two seasons have convinced fans nationwide he is MUCH more than a lucky coach that led Western Michigan to a good season. Much less speculation about how quickly he will leave MN than I figured. Although some mention Michigan or Notre Dame as a place where he will soon be coaching, I was surprised how many people mentioned MN's football legacy and how they wouldn't be surprised to see Fleck grow a legacy here. All in all I think Fleck has successfully answered not only "how will his act play out at a power five school" but also anywhere, including bluebloods. Winning is always the most important thing and that is what he is now seen to be proven capable of doing, anywhere.

SEC: more SEC fans complimentary of the B1G and MN than I would have assumed with lots of comments about how MN would have been good in any conference situation this season, and there is a very bright future for MN. In short, lots of respect.

Naysayers: Aside from isolated comments that can be found most anywhere, if there were some "pockets of negativity" - I would say one of them was a predictable source (Wisconsin) and one was a place that wouldn't have jumped into my mind: Purdue. Wisconsin is pretty much the only place still associating Fleck with wacky things, snake oil salesman, etc. (surprise, surprise) and Purdue fans seem to have a chip on their shoulders about the old "Brohm vs Fleck" debate and like to take some shots at Fleck and undermine his accomplishments a bit. Another location I expected to see negativity was Iowa and at least from what I read, that was not the case. They see Fleck as a formidable coach and the Gophers on the rise with him at the helm.

Curious if any of you have taken in any national opinions, comments from friends in other parts of the country, etc.????? See anything that either agrees with these summaries or differs from them?
Click to expand...
Pretty much the same results i saw skimming chat lines, though your angle was wider. Thanks for this.
 

I've seen quite a bit of talk on SEC boards of how their team should hire Fleck.
 

Schnauzer said:
I figured The Outback Bowl victory would turn some heads and a quick review of message boards around the country showed that it did. I just randomly went around to various boards and did a search on "Minnesota" to read through what has been discussed since the bowl win. Nearly every message board with normal to high levels of activity has a thread on either Fleck, the Gophers, or the Outback bowl over the past couple weeks. Of course, all these opinions aren't worth any more than yours or mine as it is all fan-based but in general, it was interesting to read the discussions. I just started with this site and randomly looked around:

College Football Forums Guide - Find popular message boards for all 130 FBS (D1A) teams

Links to the most popular forums for all 130 Football Bowl Subdivision (D1A) teams.
www.footballforumsguide.com www.footballforumsguide.com

I went into it assuming I'd see a lot of comments about how the win was a fluke, how PJ Fleck will be gone to a "bigger" program shortly, how this was a one hit wonder of a season, etc. Although I did find some of that, I was surprised to see the general themes were mostly not along those lines.

Gophers: Nearly universally seen as a well coached, disciplined team that is highly motivated. Lots of comments assuming MN fans are quite happy. Also lots of comments recognizing the win over Auburn was a surprising beat down statistically and the Gophes were the better team. Some comments bringing up the "motivation" factor for Auburn but most discussion dismissed that as an excuse and instead were focused on how good the Gophers are. Lots of comments about individual players on the Gophes and their high levels of skill. People see the Gophers as a legit contender for conference division titles and more in future years.

PJ Fleck: It is clear he has landed on the radar of fans all over the country this year. Nearly universally lauded as a top coach and lots of compliments on how he successfully prepares and motivates his teams. Lots of open jealousy suggesting any team would be lucky to have him and the programs he builds. A few comments about his "rah rah" style and all the sayings and motivational techniques - but it is clear these past two seasons have convinced fans nationwide he is MUCH more than a lucky coach that led Western Michigan to a good season. Much less speculation about how quickly he will leave MN than I figured. Although some mention Michigan or Notre Dame as a place where he will soon be coaching, I was surprised how many people mentioned MN's football legacy and how they wouldn't be surprised to see Fleck grow a legacy here. All in all I think Fleck has successfully answered not only "how will his act play out at a power five school" but also anywhere, including bluebloods. Winning is always the most important thing and that is what he is now seen to be proven capable of doing, anywhere.

SEC: more SEC fans complimentary of the B1G and MN than I would have assumed with lots of comments about how MN would have been good in any conference situation this season, and there is a very bright future for MN. In short, lots of respect.

Naysayers: Aside from isolated comments that can be found most anywhere, if there were some "pockets of negativity" - I would say one of them was a predictable source (Wisconsin) and one was a place that wouldn't have jumped into my mind: Purdue. Wisconsin is pretty much the only place still associating Fleck with wacky things, snake oil salesman, etc. (surprise, surprise) and Purdue fans seem to have a chip on their shoulders about the old "Brohm vs Fleck" debate and like to take some shots at Fleck and undermine his accomplishments a bit. Another location I expected to see negativity was Iowa and at least from what I read, that was not the case. They see Fleck as a formidable coach and the Gophers on the rise with him at the helm.

Curious if any of you have taken in any national opinions, comments from friends in other parts of the country, etc.????? See anything that either agrees with these summaries or differs from them?
Click to expand...
 




Livingat45north said:
I've seen quite a bit of talk on SEC boards of how their team should hire Fleck.
Click to expand...

There are a lot of fanbases at the moment wanting their school to hire Fleck. Unfortunately for them he has a Power 5 job already with an AD he gets along really well with who has shown a true commitment to Football and supporting the vision of the head coach.
 

I'm a Florida alum (my Dad's the Minnesota alum & booster; he's posted here in the past, don't know if he still does).

I think you've captured the essence of the reaction from the Gator Boards I visit.

There were a few people who thought Auburn didn't give a good performance (the "nothing to play for" excuse), but the majority acknowledged it was no "fluke," that the Gophers dominated Auburn physically, and gave credit where it's due.

The Gators had a hard time dealing with Auburn's defensive front; credit is given to the Gopher O-Line and the game plan for neutralizing them all day long.

There's still a lot of "Well, Fleck will eventually move on" sentiment in Gator Land.

IMO, you have to expect that.

For those of us who don't follow the Big Ten much, the idea that you can win anyplace other than Ohio State (or possibly Michigan) is unthinkable.

And for those of us who do, "How difficult it is to win in the Big 10" (the conference really ought to change the name), given Ohio State has more money than g-d, well . . . we appreciate the challenge, and know it'd be an unusual coach who'd decide to plant his flag at a place where he'd have to "go through that" to win championships.
 
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BradDad said:
I'm a Florida alum (my Dad's the Minnesota alum & booster; he's posted here in the past, don't know if he still does).

I think you've captured the essence of the reaction from the Gator Boards I visit.

There were a few people who thought Auburn didn't give a good performance (the "nothing to play for" excuse), but the majority acknowledged it was no "fluke," that the Gophers dominated Auburn physically, and gave credit where it's due.

The Gators had a hard time dealing with Auburn's defensive front; credit is given to the Gopher O-Line and the game plan for neutralizing them all day long.

There's still a lot of "Well, Fleck will eventually move on" sentiment in Gator Land.

IMO, you have to expect that.

For those of us who don't follow the Big Ten much, the idea that you can win anyplace other than Ohio State (or possibly Michigan) is unthinkable.

And for those of us who do, "How difficult it is to win in the Big 10" (the conference really ought to change the name), given Ohio State has more money than g-d, well . . . we appreciate the challenge, and know it'd be an unusual coach who'd decide to plant his flag at a place where he'd have to "go through that" to win championships.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the comments. Not totally sure on your conclusion. Is the thinking on your boards that it's more difficult to win a conference championship in the B1G (because of OSU) than it is in the SEC? And if so, that's a key reason that Fleck will move to another school?
 



OSU has a ton of cash but so does Alabama, LSU, Georgia and Florida.

Almost every conference has a big fish in the pond.

B1G: OSU, PSU, Michigan, Nebraska all have big football budgets
SEC: Does anyone in the SEC have a small football budget? (other than Vandy)
ACC: Clemson, FSU, Miami
Big 12: Oklahoma, Texas
Pac 12: USC, Oregon

Money isn't everything as you can see from this list there are many big money schools underperforming. You need the Quadfecta. Money (facilities), Culture, Coaching and Recruiting!

Not that many schools have all 4. OSU, PSU, Alabama, Clemson, LSU, Oklahoma, Notre Dame and maybe Oregon. These schools have it easy in recruiting, support and cash.

Right now we have a good situation in all four categories. But it will take years of continued success to break into the recruiting upper echelon if ever! Just look at Wisconsin after 20+ years of excellence. They still don't draw the 5* recruits.
 

Nobody ever poached Ferentz or Alvarez, so...

I will say this, though. For the Gophs to get where Fleck wants to lead them, the situation has to grow. The future vision state would be, in no particular order, an expanded stadium; additional and continuously improved facilities; an enhanced game day experience; more interest and enthusiasm among students, alumni, and the general population of the area; and probably other things I'm not visualizing. Of course, all of this and more is where the money comes from. That's going to take buy-in from the school and community. We're not just going to be along for the ride; we're going to have to be active participants.

Is this town ready for the big time? Is it ready for the fast lane?
 

The thing I've noted is the frequency of stating this bowl outcome mattered as a program changer or having come of age for the Gophers. Unfortunately for Auburn, the same is being said of them too...but in terms of stagnation and maybe time for a change. Certainly eliminated the buzz around beating Bama.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Nobody ever poached Ferentz or Alvarez, so...

I will say this, though. For the Gophs to get where Fleck wants to lead them, the situation has to grow. The future vision state would be, in no particular order, an expanded stadium; additional and continuously improved facilities; an enhanced game day experience; more interest and enthusiasm among students, alumni, and the general population of the area; and probably other things I'm not visualizing. Of course, all of this and more is where the money comes from. That's going to take buy-in from the school and community. We're not just going to be along for the ride; we're going to have to be active participants.

Is this town ready for the big time? Is it ready for the fast lane?
Click to expand...

These are a few of the million reasons why going to the Rose Bowl this year would’ve been a massive boon to the entire athletics program. Four more points against Iowa and we’re in Pasadena for the first time in nearly 60 years, with fan interest and donations spiking as they historically have for downtrodden programs that finally break through. The Outback Bowl was a great step forward, but there’s only one Rose Bowl for putting a program on hyper speed.
 

WindyCityGopher said:
These are a few of the million reasons why going to the Rose Bowl this year would’ve been a massive boon to the entire athletics program. Four more points against Iowa and we’re in Pasadena for the first time in nearly 60 years, with fan interest and donations spiking as they historically have for downtrodden programs that finally break through. The Outback Bowl was a great step forward, but there’s only one Rose Bowl for putting a program on hyper speed.
Click to expand...
PJ had a master plan of saving us making the Rose Bowl for next year, when it’s also one of the CFP semi-final locations. Two birds with one stone. Fleck plays 4D chess. I am kidding, but also hoping 2020 is the year we make the Rose Bowl. Because it would be a Rose Bowl with incredibly larger importance.
 

Oregon seems to have their football program in a good place despite having a stadium about the same size as ours. Is expanding its capacity central to their plan to become (or maintain being) big time?

I realize they get Nike money but I'm also assuming they do not get the TV money that the Big Ten Network provides the MN athletic program. These are just assumptions on my part and I could be wrong but in general, not only do I see TCF Bank Stadium remaining roughly the same size well into the future, but that is actually 'okay' as well.

I could see some modest changes to bring capacity up to 56k but I would really be surprised if we ever see any of the major changes required to bring capacity to 65k or more - regardless of how many Rose Bowls are achieved.
 

Schnauzer said:
Oregon seems to have their football program in a good place despite having a stadium about the same size as ours. Is expanding its capacity central to their plan to become (or maintain being) big time?

I realize they get Nike money but I'm also assuming they do not get the TV money that the Big Ten Network provides the MN athletic program. These are just assumptions on my part and I could be wrong but in general, not only do I see TCF Bank Stadium remaining roughly the same size well into the future, but that is actually 'okay' as well.

I could see some modest changes to bring capacity up to 56k but I would really be surprised if we ever see any of the major changes required to bring capacity to 65k or more - regardless of how many Rose Bowls are achieved.
Click to expand...
According to this list of NCAA revenues by school, UofM is slightly ahead of Oregon based on 2017-18 data...granted, every list I've seen seems to differ.

https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/#
 

Schnauzer said:
Oregon seems to have their football program in a good place despite having a stadium about the same size as ours. Is expanding its capacity central to their plan to become (or maintain being) big time?

I realize they get Nike money but I'm also assuming they do not get the TV money that the Big Ten Network provides the MN athletic program. These are just assumptions on my part and I could be wrong but in general, not only do I see TCF Bank Stadium remaining roughly the same size well into the future, but that is actually 'okay' as well.

I could see some modest changes to bring capacity up to 56k but I would really be surprised if we ever see any of the major changes required to bring capacity to 65k or more - regardless of how many Rose Bowls are achieved.
Click to expand...
I tend to compare us to other Big Ten programs rather than Oregon. If we're going to compete with Michigan and Ohio State for top recruits, we have to be first rate in obvious optics, which includes a game day experience that's up there with Madison and Columbus and a big stadium full of fans like at Camp Randall and the Big House. If you don't want to dream like me or Fleck, that's fine, but there was a time when Minnesota was the shit, and he sees the potential of that recurring here. It's a metro area of 2.5 million, for pete's sake.
 

Bad Gopher said:
I tend to compare us to other Big Ten programs rather than Oregon. If we're going to compete with Michigan and Ohio State for top recruits, we have to be first rate in obvious optics, which includes a game day experience that's up there with Madison and Columbus and a big stadium full of fans like at Camp Randall and the Big House. If you don't want to dream like me or Fleck, that's fine, but there was a time when Minnesota was the shit, and he sees the potential of that recurring here. It's a metro area of 2.5 million, for pete's sake.
Click to expand...

I think we are dreaming of the same thing aren't we? The same end result? You are suggesting something similar to both of us wanting a good job but because I don't have the same college major as you, I'm not dreaming of a good job.

I would love a 120,000 seat stadium filled every weekend to cheer on the Gophers. I just don't think a stadium bigger than current TCF Bank Stadium will be a requirement to win.

Perhaps I should be asking why you have such little faith in Fleck that you think copying Michigan is a requirement to win big at Minnesota?
 

The obvious difference for MN is that they have an extremely popular NFL team literally a couple of miles away from their campus. As long as the Vikings are winning, it will be difficult for the Gophers to be the #1 team in the market.

Now, if the Gophers were able to win a Rose Bowl, or a B1G championship - AND the Vikes had a couple of bad years, then things might get interesting. But, no matter what the Gophers do, as long as the Vikes are making the playoffs and selling out their stadium, the Gophers are facing an uphill battle to win the hearts, minds and dollars of the fan base - a fan base that is further splintered by pockets of support for the Twins, Wild, Loons and the Wolves.
 

Panthadad2 said:
According to this list of NCAA revenues by school, UofM is slightly ahead of Oregon based on 2017-18 data...granted, every list I've seen seems to differ.

https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/#
Click to expand...
It's a B1G, SEC world. The other conferences don't have nearly the revenue stream. Having new facilities, that are mostly paid for, is a plus on the cashflow side as well. We've spent a lot of cash upgrading facilities basically for all sports. At least on the athletics side, the facilities are in good shape.
 

Otis said:
OSU has a ton of cash but so does Alabama, LSU, Georgia and Florida.

Almost every conference has a big fish in the pond.
Click to expand...
Otis said:
B1G: OSU, PSU, Michigan, Nebraska all have big football budgets
SEC: Does anyone in the SEC have a small football budget? (other than Vandy)
ACC: Clemson, FSU, Miami
Big 12: Oklahoma, Texas
Pac 12: USC, Oregon

Money isn't everything as you can see from this list there are many big money schools underperforming. You need the Quadfecta. Money (facilities), Culture, Coaching and Recruiting!

Not that many schools have all 4. OSU, PSU, Alabama, Clemson, LSU, Oklahoma, Notre Dame and maybe Oregon. These schools have it easy in recruiting, support and cash.

Right now we have a good situation in all four categories. But it will take years of continued success to break into the recruiting upper echelon if ever! Just look at Wisconsin after 20+ years of excellence. They still don't draw the 5* recruits.
Click to expand...

GSU USE to be known as as a team that did more with less.

With your HC and staff in place, you could easily take 4 star players and with superior coaching and EXICUTION beat those programs as long as you can maintain consistancey!
 

MNVCGUY said:
There are a lot of fanbases at the moment wanting their school to hire Fleck. Unfortunately for them he has a Power 5 job already with an AD he gets along really well with who has shown a true commitment to Football and supporting the vision of the head coach.
Click to expand...
You are an up and comming P5, he gets along with your AD, VERY IMPORTANT, fan support & he's got a vision for where he wants the gophers to head . THOSE ARE POWERFULL REASONS TO STAY.

All of you have seen very good coaches switch schools and many schools alumni and ADs want instant success and arn't willing to wait for the change and rebuild.
 

Schnauzer said:
I think we are dreaming of the same thing aren't we? The same end result? You are suggesting something similar to both of us wanting a good job but because I don't have the same college major as you, I'm not dreaming of a good job.

I would love a 120,000 seat stadium filled every weekend to cheer on the Gophers. I just don't think a stadium bigger than current TCF Bank Stadium will be a requirement to win.

Perhaps I should be asking why you have such little faith in Fleck that you think copying Michigan is a requirement to win big at Minnesota?
Click to expand...
Not copying Michigan; just competing with their game day experience, as I said. Putting myself in the position of a recruit, and going to the Horseshoe or Michigan Stadium, it would be a major wow. No, we wouldn't have to "match" their seating attendance, but a successful program will tend to have a wow factor in some respects.
 

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