What is your "JUMPING OFF POINT" for Tubby?

[e.bigelow]

I'm trying to compare this to how I felt with Brewster. I gave him a fair shake, but when they lost to the Coyotes, that was it for me. No matter what happened the rest of that year, I was done with him. There's not an equivalent loss for this team...yet. I'm on board until I see this team listed on the "First Four Out". If the tourney started today, they'd be an 8 seed at worst. I'm holding out hope that they've bottomed out for this year and will only go up.

The Brewster mention nailed it for me. I felt the same way after that loss to USD. Unacceptable. And, your right, the team hasn't quite had that, yet. But, for me, the 2nd half of that Northwestern game in Evanston just about did it for me. Just my thoughts.

 

[howeda7]

The Brewster mention nailed it for me. I felt the same way after that loss to USD. Unacceptable. And, your right, the team hasn't quite had that, yet. But, for me, the 2nd half of that Northwestern game in Evanston just about did it for me. Just my thoughts.

Losing to Northwestern in basketball does not equal losing to USD in football. Losing to USD in basketball equals losing to USD in football. Neither that, nor its close equivalent has happened under Tubby, this year or ever really. Tubby's tenure has been disappointing, but it's not at Brewster levels.

 

[e.bigelow]

I've been questioning Tubby for 2 or 3 years now. But I won't set a concrete standard at this time, and will wait till the end of the season. We could have a positive end or a negative end and nothing will happen during the season.

Having said that I have seen too many disturbing trends/red flags.

The seemingly lack of a half-court offense.
The inability to cover 3pt shooters.
The strange substitution patterns.
The players that transfer and seem to do well elsewhere.
The lack of depth. Mostly pertaining to this year I guess.
The inability to recruit any true pgs.
The team doesn't seem to improve during the year.
Tubby calling out players in the media.
Rumors every year of Tubby going to another school and him not putting a stop to the stories.
Tubby and the players looking disinterested during many games.
Many blown leads late in the game.
The players so often just don't seem to be playing with confidence.
The fact that Tubby has never finished above 500 and never above 6th place in conference.

I will say if we miss the big dance or lose the first tournament game, it will be time to make a change. Of course this depends upon the ability to come up with 2.5 mill.

I guess I am setting a bar. We'll see what happens.

Man, those points are EXACTLY what I would have summed up as well. Well done, 19!

 

[Gophers09]

NBA Lottery Potential players (Williams, Sampson) ?????? In whose minds? Oh, please, stop -- you're killin' me.

Ralph was a swing and a miss from day 1 -- he hasn't even developed into a D-League player. (didn't you feel sorry for his dad agonizing in the stands watching III play?) And Rodney has hardly developed as a player in the last three years as a starter, still cant hit FTs or a 10 foot jumper. Neither has the drive to go out and try to dominate a game, they both stand around and watch. Not what you expect from your leaders.

If you're not getting the top tier talent, you've gotta get guys who have the desire to get better -- mentally tough. Not sure we're getting many of those kids.

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but it's a fact that Rodney had lottery potential in the minds of a lot of people who know a lot about the NBA. Your point about him not developing is the exact point you were trying to refute.

 

[e.bigelow]

Losing to Northwestern in basketball does not equal losing to USD in football. Losing to USD in basketball equals losing to USD in football. Neither that, nor its close equivalent has happened under Tubby, this year or ever really. Tubby's tenure has been disappointing, but it's not at Brewster levels.

Did I say that? i certainly didn't mean to imply that. I guess you didn't quite read my entire post. I said it JUST about did it for me, the 2nd half in particular. The inability to figure out how to break a basic 1-3-1 HC Zone defense was just absolutely painful to watch. Feel free to disagree with me, but that was just awful, IMO.

Quite frankly, this team has looked unprepared and uninterested too often during some of the conference games, IMO. That is all on Tubby in my mind. He is the end all, be all, to motivate the team and prepare them, and at times, it seems like he has completely lost players like Rodney Williams and others who almost look disinterested for points in games. If he can't get the players to play for him, they need to find someone who can. We all want the team to do well, and with many saying this has been his best team in years, it has just Been very frustrating to watch the season play out the way it has so far. Just my thoughts.

 

[book]

needs to get Tyus and Vaugn

 

[bemidjigopher]

Sampson III was a two guard trapped in a center's body, there was no chance in hell he would ever develop into a lotto pick. Williams can jump out of gym that's the only thing scouts like about him, he plays decent defense probably an end of a bench guy in the Association. To say RS3 could've of gone in the lottery would make the preposterous statement tourney if rubes were still included, right up there with Kevin Gorg's comment about horses losing 200 lbs in a race

 

[station19]

let's turn this around- at what point does Tubby realize he is in the same point he was at Kentucky and quit? He has done it before, what is his next step down? UNC-Asheville or High Point might sound more comfortable for a few years and then he can till have Saul on his staff

I must admit, I've wondered if this is a possibility myself.

Yes, that's an interesting subject. When you look at it in totality, quite a career arc. For the first 8 or so years of his head coaching career, there might not have been a more effective coach in college basketball. Not one losing conference record in six years at Tulsa and Georgia - not even a .500 record - including three straight Sweet 16 runs. Then, of course, the national championship at UK. After that, though, there were ups and downs at Kentucky. Still, he was only an overtime away from the Final Four in 2005. Then the arc trends downward for sure after that.

I dislike the Packers, of course, but I watched HBO's / NFL Films' documentary on Vince Lombardi three times, it was so good. What stuck with me from that film was the hard time he had with energy and burnout after a while. He coached in Green Bay only nine years, after which he felt he needed to bow out due to physical and mental exhaustion. Even after 7 or 8 years, he looked 15 or more years older and was clearly showing the strain.

From that and others' experiences, it doesn't take a long time for someone to get played out or burned out. I think Tubby reached that point while at Kentucky and has never really recovered. He did seem to get refreshed right away at Minnesota, and it showed the way he elevated that first team. Do you remember him celebrating Blake's miracle shot against Indiana? Can you imagine him dancing like that again now? I'm not sure I can. Since that time there have been flashes in both him and his teams, but neither has been able to sustain anything for very long.

I do believe the Smith from the '90's is a different Smith than we have here today. I think it takes a high level of energy and determination to coach the way he coached then. He continues to try and do it that way, but the juice is just not there anymore; that gear has been stripped. Too bad, because what I wouldn't give to get that guy and his energy and results now.

I think there maybe a chance of this also.

needs to get Tyus and Vaugn

This brings me to another concern. This year seems to be taking a downward turn and I am not very encouraged by the prospects of next year. I think most would agree our bench is quite week and if our freshmen were at all capable they would be playing this year. The 2013 class, though incomplete, seems to be a question mark at this time. Two 3 stars, I believe.

If we finish poorly this year and next year is a down year, I don't think we stand a very good chance of signing any of the Big 3 of the 2014 class. If those three things were all to happen, the program would be in pretty sad shape.

Would we have a better chance to sign those three with a new coach? Hard to say, but maybe.

 

[Coolew01]

Losing to Northwestern in basketball does not equal losing to USD in football. Losing to USD in basketball equals losing to USD in football. Neither that, nor its close equivalent has happened under Tubby, this year or ever really. Tubby's tenure has been disappointing, but it's not at Brewster levels.

Not disagreeing with Brew take, I wasn't lost after NW loss, surely disappointed everyone is entitled to lose to a team they shouldn't beat. After Wisconsin, to not at least upset a few teams you should be able to is concerning. Mich st might have been a decent upset. IMO basketball is a way easier sport to upset someone as opposed to football because hitting a high percentage of shots as opposed to physically dominating a team in football is easier to do.

 

[Saber]

I agree with the comment that a change in coaches would probably improve our chances with the big 3.

And I really wish I could have as much faith as some of you guys that Tubby can turn this ship around. All I can say is that we're lucky that we have games remaining against penn state, purdue and nebraska. I don't expect us to sweep those 3. I've seen this movie before, and I know how it ends. Everything I've seen lately looks an awful lot like Tubby has lost the team and destroyed their confidence (again!)

You can't play basketball at a high level without confidence. I kept telling people early in the conference schedule that I really wish they would stop harping on the turnovers. Yeah, they're a probllem, but Tubby isn't going tell them anything that may help them avoid them, other than to not be as aggressive on offense. That leads to more passing the ball around. I can't count the number of times that the players have passed up good shots, or avoided driving obvious driving lanes, because that would be too risky. Instead, they pass it around a few more times and result in a turnover.

But if there's one thing I can infer from Tubby's love of Maverick Ahanmisi, it is that he emphasizes avoiding mistakes, not doing anything good. I call it Maverick Ahanmisi syndrome, where the fear of doing anything bad prevents you from doing anything good. I've seen it way too often under Tubby's tenure.

I want the team to play with passion, and energy. If they're constantly worried about getting yelled at for doing something wrong, they can't play with that energy.

I said I wanted Tubby fired regardless of what happens from because I've already seen this movie and know how it ends. I wish I could be optimistic about him turning it around, but I have zero faith in it happening. I'll be the happiest person here if we make the sweet 16, but despite having the talent to do that on this roster... it just ain't happening. Not with Tubby at the helm.

 

[go4rob]

Right now my confidence is pretty low. This team has gotten progressively worse since the Illinois game on the road. That, to me, is a reflection of coaching. The team lacks confidence and is playing "scared'. IMHO they will lose their next 3, putting them 4 games below 500 in conference play and looking the NIT straight in the eye. This should be unacceptable to Teague.

 

[scher215]

Right now my confidence is pretty low. This team has gotten progressively worse since the Illinois game on the road. That, to me, is a reflection of coaching. The team lacks confidence and is playing "scared'. IMHO they will lose their next 3, putting them 4 games below 500 in conference play and looking the NIT straight in the eye. This should be unacceptable to Teague.

I'm sure it would be if it were to actually happen.

Luckily, we base those decisions on the actual results and not your predictions.