What is your definition of a success as a coach for Minnesota?

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Goldmember said:
Yep. And those who have NEVER managed (successfully) usually have no comprehension of how to measure either of those. So their expectations are all over the board, change almost daily with their emotions. And they have no idea how to think in terms of "results". Sound like Gopherhole after losing to a #5 team?

I think that is really the theme of this whole thread. This staff did exactly what was originally expected of them in their first year. Maybe even better.

It is only NOW, after the season, in a fit of infantile rage, that some claim they expected a win over a #5 ranked team, or that they expected 10 wins. A rare few even admit that they changed their expectations. But that's not how it works. That's not how ANY of this works.
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Can we please stop with the notion that this is the staff's first year? By and large this staff has been here for six years. The only reason Claeys kept the job after Kill stepped down is so that we could keep the continuity and momentum that we had going under Kill.

Have we kept that momentum? I don't know. For me personally we went from being a good team in 2014 to an average team in 2015 and 2016. Recruiting doesn't seem to be going as well since Kill left. Granted, we may find out that the staff has found a slew of players that were underrated by the recruiting services. I guess we're going to get the chance to find out.

Getting back to the topic of the thread, just beat Wisconsin once again before I die and I'll consider the coach a success.
 

Ron Johnson Super Fan said:
Can we please stop with the notion that this is the staff's first year? By and large this staff has been here for six years. The only reason Claeys kept the job after Kill stepped down is so that we could keep the continuity and momentum that we had going under Kill.

Have we kept that momentum? I don't know. For me personally we went from being a good team in 2014 to an average team in 2015 and 2016. Recruiting doesn't seem to be going as well since Kill left. Granted, we may find out that the staff has found a slew of players that were underrated by the recruiting services. I guess we're going to get the chance to find out.

Getting back to the topic of the thread, just beat Wisconsin once again before I die and I'll consider the coach a success.
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I don't think it is fair to hold them to the standard of the past staff with all the new people and moving of roles and etc.... and at the same time not give them a high five for being better than 2015 where we eeked out wins vs Kent St...
 

My hope is to get to a point where we are in the running for the west championship most years with an occasional trip to Indy (once every 4-5 years or so).
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
I don't think it is fair to hold them to the standard of the past staff with all the new people and moving of roles and etc.... and at the same time not give them a high five for being better than 2015 where we eeked out wins vs Kent St...
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Agreed. But also not fair to act as though its a whole new outfit that was brought in.

I guess I've been jaded by tasting the success of making it to the Citrus Bowl and seemingly not being able to build on it. The 4th quarter collapse against the heathens to the east really, really hurt my spirit regarding how things are going. I need to move past it but the wasted opportunities of this year are really grinding on me. Hopefully I'll have recovered by next August.
 

Ron Johnson Super Fan said:
Can we please stop with the notion that this is the staff's first year? By and large this staff has been here for six years. The only reason Claeys kept the job after Kill stepped down is so that we could keep the continuity and momentum that we had going under Kill
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I like how people think that if they keep SAYING this isn't a new staff that somehow it will make it true. Tracy is A 1st year HC. The coordinators are new.

Claeys may have gotten the job mostly because he offered continuity to an institution whose AD left revenue-generating athletics a complete and total mess.

That's not his problem. He met his expectations.

IMO, most of you are just butt-hurt that WI had their best season this year in their 120+ years, and Iowa pretty much did last year. Our rivals' ability to have avoided Mason-firing-type emotionally -driven decisions and the inevitable fallout is ALSO not Tracy's problem.

I'm sure a lot of you hear a lot of crap from Hawkeyes and Badger fans, who are generally horrible gloating, nimrods. But they all openly lust for Minnesota to have a dysfunctional coaching-carousel. It is the sure recipe for creating a bottom-feeder.
 


Goldmember said:
I like how people think that if they keep SAYING this isn't a new staff that somehow it will make it true. Tracy is A 1st year HC. The coordinators are new.

Claeys may have gotten the job mostly because he offered continuity to an institution whose AD left revenue-generating athletics a complete and total mess.

That's not his problem. He met his expectations.

IMO, most of you are just butt-hurt that WI had their best season this year in their 120+ years, and Iowa pretty much did last year. Our rivals' ability to have avoided Mason-firing-type emotionally -driven decisions and the inevitable fallout is ALSO not Tracy's problem.

I'm sure a lot of you hear a lot of crap from Hawkeyes and Badger fans, who are generally horrible gloating, nimrods. But they all openly lust for Minnesota to have a dysfunctional coaching-carousel. It is the sure recipe for creating a bottom-feeder.
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Ok. You're right. Its an all new staff. Its the exact same thing as hiring a new coach and bringing in a whole new staff. Good grief.

I'm glad you're certain that everything is headed in the right direction. I'm not. I guess we'll get to see who's right in the coming years.
 

Ron Johnson Super Fan said:
Can we please stop with the notion that this is the staff's first year? By and large this staff has been here for six years. The only reason Claeys kept the job after Kill stepped down is so that we could keep the continuity and momentum that we had going under Kill.

Have we kept that momentum? I don't know. For me personally we went from being a good team in 2014 to an average team in 2015 and 2016. Recruiting doesn't seem to be going as well since Kill left. Granted, we may find out that the staff has found a slew of players that were underrated by the recruiting services. I guess we're going to get the chance to find out.

Getting back to the topic of the thread, just beat Wisconsin once again before I die and I'll consider the coach a success.
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I'm not sure that is the only reason. I think it was mainly because it was an easy pick at a time when the athletic dept had no AD.
 


GophersInIowa said:
I'm not sure that is the only reason. I think it was mainly because it was an easy pick at a time when the athletic dept had no AD.
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Fair point. If 2014 had been a dumpster fire though I doubt they would have removed the interim tag after 2015.
 




Goldmember said:
IMO, most of you are just butt-hurt that WI had their best season this year in their 120+ years, and Iowa pretty much did last year. Our rivals' ability to have avoided Mason-firing-type emotionally -driven decisions and the inevitable fallout is ALSO not Tracy's problem.
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This year is probably in the top three this century, so far. It could be their best season if they win out, but 2010 (11-1, #5 ranking heading into the bowls) and 2006 (12-1, #6 ranking heading into the bowls) are probably as good at this point. And that's what probably sucks most of all, to me, as a Gopher fan.

It seems our chief rival has surpassed us so greatly that we can't expect to compete with them at the current rate, and they're showing time and again that's the case. There is no "regression." They are an exceptional program with exceptional expectations. They are just a step down from the Ohio State's and Alabama's of the world. They should, frankly, no longer consider us a serious "rival" in the classic sense of the word because we are nowhere close to that. And, in my opinion, that is just a really crappy feeling and I wish I felt like we at least had the right pieces in place to get us there. Maybe we do, maybe we don't, but time will tell that story.
 

Claeys is a plan B of a plan B. That's why people aren't excited.
 

Wisconsin and Iowa should absolutely be the comparisons. Over the past 20 years or so, I consider them to be on pretty equal footing with sustained success, some big "ups" and some slight downs. I'm too lazy to look at the exact numbers, but I suspect they somewhat mirror what's already been said in this thread about what we "expect" for MN:

1) Consistent 6 - 8 wins
2) Compete for West most years (3 out of 4?), win it once every 4
3) "Magical" season once every 8 years (Win B1G, NY6 Bowl, etc.)

I don't care if you think it's Year 1 of the Claeys regime or Year 6 of the Kill/Claeys regime. Either way,

1) We've accomplished this. There are many programs across the country who have not.
2) We've seriously challenged for the West twice. Have yet to win it, so we're behind schedule on that part of the goal. If we don't win it in the next 2 years, then perhaps change is called for.
3) Obviously haven't accomplished this. Again, if it's not approached in the next 2 years, perhaps a change is called for.

I think this staff can do it.
 




PMWinSTP said:
So 2-10 sounds better as long as they are rivalry wins? Or maybe 5-7 if Gophs win the non-conf games? Don't think the 13 year drought with WI or the 2 wins in 25+ years against MI is on Claeys as HC.
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Yes, I think many would take that. A win over Wisconsin would feel better than our streak over Ill, Rutgers, Maryland, etc. I think many would gladly take 5-7 if those wins came over Wisconsin or Iowa, just to gett the monkey off the back. Then, firm it up.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Yes, I think many would take that. A win over Wisconsin would feel better than our streak over Ill, Rutgers, Maryland, etc. I think many would gladly take 5-7 if those wins came over Wisconsin or Iowa, just to gett the monkey off the back. Then, firm it up.
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Many, or Most? Gladly? I doubt it. We've been there, it's not fun getting beat by mid tier mid-major conference teams. No thanks, I'll take 8-9 wins every time.
 

9 regular season wins now and then, maybe even a 10 win rs once. Win the Big Ten West. Go to the Rose Bowl. Don't even need a BT championship. This should happen within 7 years. Beat upper echelon BT teams 1 to 3 times every year (I could give a pass on this for 1 season. Beat WI once every 3 or 4 years at least.


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Some guy said:
This is an interesting thread to look back at.
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Sure is. Interesting how the goalposts move once you see a few 9 win seasons in a short span. I'd say a bowl game is the minimum expectation and 8 wins is the bar for a season to be considered a success. We have yet to see where we'll stand on a yearly basis in terms of NIL or how much success we'll have from it, even though early signs look positive.
 



Well, on reflection, P.J. has done "pretty well" on the "Beat Wisconsin sometime" portion of his "job expectations and goals".

Coincidentally, I was just doing work evaluations for five of my people, and reading some of this human resources "goals and expectations" gobbedlygook. It made me smile.

If we apply similar logic to Gopher Football ---> Rating P.J. in the Wisconsin sub-category, he gets a written evaluation to the tune of "outstanding job" / recommend retention and pay raise.

Beating Wisconsin THIS YEAR was one of the more satisfying football games I have watched in the course of being a fan since 1969.
 

At least 9 wins a year and throw in a 10-11 win season in there every few years.
Beat Wisconsin and Iowa every year.
Sadly, bowl game appearances and bowl game victories don't mean anything anymore, so you gotta throw in a CFP appearance at least once every 7-8 years.
 

I would say PJ is just about maxing out what the realistic expectations are. He has 34-36 career big ten record, not great, but much better then anyone not named Murray Warmath or Bernie Bierman. Al ready has more big ten wins the Glen Mason. Fleck has won seven conference games, six conference games, five twice and his worst season was 5-7 season. The only thing that sucks is we never won the West and got to go to Indy. I wish our record vs Iowa was better but Fleck has turned the tide in the badger rivalry. The last time the badgers beat us in camp Randell with fans was in 2016. This is a hard place to win, our recruiting territory is probably the worst in the league but Fleck has done a good job minagating that in the portal. NIL not great but certainly improving and we seem to be smart about it. I think the 2021 team really could have been special but had a couple of WTF loses but overall from a Macro perspective I don't think it could really be much better then it has been the last eight years.
 

FredCoxRocks said:
At least 9 wins a year and throw in a 10-11 win season in there every few years.
Beat Wisconsin and Iowa every year.
Sadly, bowl game appearances and bowl game victories don't mean anything anymore, so you gotta throw in a CFP appearance at least once every 7-8 years.
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You're asking the coach to win at a 100% clip of something that has been 50% for 100 years.

Bowl every year with goal of 8+ wins each year.
 

FredCoxRocks said:
At least 9 wins a year and throw in a 10-11 win season in there every few years.
Beat Wisconsin and Iowa every year.
Sadly, bowl game appearances and bowl game victories don't mean anything anymore, so you gotta throw in a CFP appearance at least once every 7-8 years.
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Do you have a coach in mind who can consistently meet these expectations?
 

Some guy said:
Mine is 9 regular season wins once every 4-5 years and never less than 5
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This is what I said in 2016

I probably still agree. I might remove the words regular season. An 8-4 regular season means you’re over .500 in conference….which I care about more now.

In 2016 it was after just one year of the 9 game conference schedule. Now we are 8 years in.



It would be hard for me to watch a coach fired if they never go 4-8 or worse and are never more than 4 years removed from a 9+ win season


What could make me want fleck gone?
2-3 more years never getting back to 9 would probably do it.
A season of 3-9 or 4-8 might do it. A combo of those two definitely would do it.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
You're asking the coach to win at a 100% clip of something that has been 50% for 100 years.

Bowl every year with goal of 8+ wins each year.
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Yeah, and expectation of beating Iowa and Wisconsin every year would be ridiculous. We should always be on a similar footing and competitive with both those schools but expecting them to never beat us would be ridiculous.

To the second part, you have to allow for the occassional down season, so maybe 8+ wins and a bowl trip at least 7 times in every 10 year period or something like that.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
You're asking the coach to win at a 100% clip of something that has been 50% for 100 years.

Bowl every year with goal of 8+ wins each year.
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RememberMurray said:
Do you have a coach in mind who can consistently meet these expectations?
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Sorry, it's the Christmas season and I got caught up in the spirit of giving receiving.
 

I’d really for the most part just like PJ to end up with a record at the end of the year commensurate with with the rest of his program. He hasn’t been able to consistently coach em up and or manage games well enough to maximize what I think his potential is here. Seemed like we had some signs moving in the right direction this year, but even those 9 win seasons, we left a lot of meat on the bone. The rest of his program is rock solid.
 

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